Thread: Petition: Remove Fellow-Wide Desperate Flight

Hey everyone,

I don't normally support petitions, nor would I ever think of posting one. However, in my final hour, this is my last bit of support that I can offer our hunter community. I've not always been some grouch on these boards. I did try to offer suggestions, if you check my post history. However, as time grew on, I've held less and less hope for any sort of response from the developers. Its lead me to have more and more pent up frustrations. I'm not apologizing for 'trolling'.

Instead of a well thought idea, we're being given one of the first replies to the 'Official Class Update and Feedback' thread. The developers, without a doubt, didn't even care about looking further than that first page.

This change is going to be implemented with Riders of Rohan.
Source: - "improving Hunter’s Desperate Flight to include your entire Fellowship."

We, as a community, must unanimously rebuttal this 'change'/'fix'/'improvement', for the following reasons:

-Easy to abuse. (intentionally or unintentionally) - Predicted comments: 'Oh we don't want a hunter that is going to mistakenly hit a skill in our instance/raid.'
-Serves no purpose other than to chicken-wuss out on a fight. You save some repair costs, and it costs you traveling rations instead. Go you.
-Not a valuable 'survival' skill, in PvE or PvMP. In PvMP it is disallowed, as is. It is an escape skill that is used to reset aggro currently, nothing more, nothing less. If we are to have a survival skill, it should improve our chances of living - not running away. We are hunters, we are not prey.
-Hunters will (intentionally or unintentionally) use this skill, making people playing our class look more idiotic to the rest of the LOTRO community.

If we are to stand together on any particular issue, let it be this one. We must do this early to change their mind.

Please /signed, /support, or however you wish to respond below, by adding a reply. If there is a reason I've forgotten to include please inform me.

--

Petition Supporters:

deaddove (Jessiriel, 75, Riddermark, 6/14/12)
Kylani (6/14/12)
Lendas (6/14/12)
Zioloth (Belgran, 75, Dwarrowdelf, 6/15/12)
rocksteadie (Rhiannan, 75, Gilrain, 6/15/12)
Tinluen (Tydalmir, 75, Elendilmir, 6/15/12)
Daragh (6/15/12)
Noridan (Braydan, 75, Crickhollow, 6/15/12)
zalladi (Zalladi, 75, Firefoot, 6/15/12)
Bond007 (Swifteagle, 75, Gladden, 6/15/12)
Ferthcott (6/15/12)
Grhysli (Axiss, 75, Brandywine, 6/15/12)
tongra (Argnot, 75, Vilya, 6/15/12)
Luinomiel (Angathriel, 75, Landroval, 6/15/12)
Whart (Tuiliel, 75, Nimrodel, 6/15/12)
jchudz (6/15/12)
Ravyrn (Viceras, 75, Gladden, 6/15/12)
Nibenwen (Nibenwen, 75, Imlardis, 6/15/12)
Haeborwen (Haeborwen, 75, Imlardis, 6/16/12)
Vindrayeth (Vindrayeth, 75, Snowbourn[?], 6/16/12)
Dawnsinger (Gwairin, 65, Evernight, 6/16/12)
medwulf (Durrga, 65, Landroval, 6/16/12)
Light12 (6/16/12)
Oldin (6/17/12)
Lowry-LRM (6/17/12)
D3-Rook (6/17/12)
Zombielord (6/17/12)

I'm really hoping they were just joking about group DF. I thought perhaps it was tongue in cheek.

I can't imagine that being our new skill.

Originally Posted by deaddove

The developers, without a doubt, didn't even care about looking further than that first page.

How can you possibly believe or say that, nevermind know that?

Originally Posted by deaddove

This change is going to be implemented with Riders of Rohan.
Source: - "improving Hunter’s Desperate Flight to include your entire Fellowship."

Your definition of "experimenting" is quite different from mine, and, quite frankly, is wrong.



All you people panicking over this and spewing vitriol at the developers for it are not just jumping, but taking a rocket-powered headlong supersonic flight to conclusion land.

Giving feedback that this is a bad idea is a good thing. Acting like it's set in diamond and saying that the developers are incompetent is not.

Originally Posted by Nakiami

How can you possibly believe or say that, nevermind know that?
Your definition of "experimenting" is quite different from mine, and, quite frankly, is wrong.

All you people panicking over this and spewing vitriol at the developers for it are not just jumping, but taking a rocket-powered headlong supersonic flight to conclusion land.

Giving feedback that this is a bad idea is a good thing. Acting like it's set in diamond and saying that the developers are incompetent is not.

Experiment with or not, this..

Simply. Is. A. Bad. Idea.

Until they say, 'NO, we're not implementing this.' I'm going to hold them by what they've already said, and not assume otherwise. I can't honestly recall of a hunter that's had a positive thought on this.

WHOA WHOA WHOA
HOLD THE PRESSES!

im sure the devs would not be that idiotic to actually implement this now would they? is it concivable for a human being to be that stupid? naaaaahhhhhhh...

3 months later

Put me down as a Hunter who thinks it is a good idea... overdue in fact. Why should hunters escape; leaving the rest of the party to die. If the situation has deteriorated enough for the Hunter to bolt; it is bad enough for everyone else to bail as well. No party wipe is good.

Originally Posted by Cavedweller

Put me down as a Hunter who thinks it is a good idea... overdue in fact. Why should hunters escape; leaving the rest of the party to die. If the situation has deteriorated enough for the Hunter to bolt; it is bad enough for everyone else to bail as well. No party wipe is good.

its never that simple... ever.

when you DF in an instance it breaks it, requiring a re-set of the entire instance.

if you need to DF your entire fellow in landscape you'r doing something wrong.

wont work in moors.

so its uselss and can lead to slip-ups that result in worse things than now.

wow imagine my total lack of surprise to see who started this 100% inaccurate whinge-a-thon thread.

For example, a couple ideas we’re currently experimenting with include: making Sword and Staff a passive skill for Lore-masters at level 40 and improving Hunter’s Desperate Flight to include your entire Fellowship.

Emphasis my own

Before you go off all half-cocked yet again, let's turn back the page to pre-ROI launch, the devs experimented with improved QS being instant with no induction. It didn't make it to the game now did it? But of course some people would have you believe everything the devs even mention is set and stone and going to happen, but the reality doesn't fit into some posters agendas.

My reaction to this thread:














Yes, I read the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Lendas

its never that simple... ever.

when you DF in an instance it breaks it, requiring a re-set of the entire instance.

if you need to DF your entire fellow in landscape you'r doing something wrong.

wont work in moors.

so its uselss and can lead to slip-ups that result in worse things than now.

love the gif! oh... and plus1 from a Hunter

/deperateflight

Originally Posted by Catisa

But of course some people would have you believe everything the devs even mention is set and stone and going to happen,

Of course if it does not happen and they change their minds, some players will complain that Turbine broke their promise, others will complain that the devs still hate hunters most of all because of no new skills, etc.

I know I know, my hunter is only level 28. Here's my(probably bad) idea: Why not have two different types of Desperate Flight? One that only works on yourself, and the other only works in your Fellowship and it affects the whole Fellowship. Someone might accidentally press it and mess up the whole group. Then there should be criteria required for it. For example: All the Fellowship only has a third of their Morale left.

I'd keep DF as it is. If they change it, you'll have Hunter's "Rage Quit" but decide to take the entire fellow with them to mess up everyone else' game. Not only that but undoubtedly people will "accidentally" hit the skill and be secretly laughing at the other members in there group as they start getting angry. And then there are the other hunters that have the skill slotted and will accidentally click it, or hit the hot-key in the middle of an instance. My prediction if this goes through: GLFF: "5/12 Saruman, need dps but NO HUNTERS". I honestly hope this doesn't go through, and that as mentioned it is just an EXPERIMENT. That is all.

I can imagine some of the other "Improved" skills Hunters might get in RoR...

Improved Camoflauge - +3 Stealth but Range is reduced to 20m, because, you're in stealth and still have range, that's OP and whatnot.

Improved Merciful Shot - 5% chance to cause (insert status ailment) but only if target is below 25% health

Improved Set Trap - Drops 2 traps, but they only hold for half a long.

Bard's Arrow - Now passive at level 40, but with twice the CD and half the duration.

Improved Split Shot - +1m Radius but -30% damage

Improved Barbed Arrow - Bleed lasts twice as long but with -50% damage

Improved Blood Arrow - 1% chance to restore 10 Morale.

See how all of these "Improvements" really aren't? They're either backhanded or utterly useless changes.

Again, lets give a big round of applause to the devs that will most likely read this post, and say..."Hey! Those are GREAT IDEAS!!"

/Signed

As many others have posted in the Hunter and Official Class feedback forums there are much more important things to improve for the Hunter class - the mains as I see them being Aggro transfer / dump, self-heal, sort out the yellow line with some more helpful raid-specific traits (like removing induction for Explosive Arrow and bringing the CD down to 15 secs if traited for it for example) and power return as we either do not have these or they do not scale properly.

I would never use Desperate Flight in my raid kin as we fight until the death / wipe to learn as much as possible in order to complete the next go. I haven't used DF for prob about 3 years.

I will be very disappointed if DF gets a makeover instead of the things we are actually asking for.

More star trek next gen gifs please!

Originally Posted by Lendas

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Yeah, that pretty much sums it up for hunters!
Experimenting.......sounds somehow very familiar.

In fact, what are the second and third suggestions in the said class thread, just to prepare for the other "experiments"...

Hey - what did you expect them to do? Read all the threads, count suggestions and sort them into general categories for consideration? Don't you have any idea how many suggestions there were?

Lot's - that's what.

God - I hope the first Minstrel reply isn't asking for more dps and a pet helicopter or something.

/signed .... not that it matters

Our other two improvements!


Your campfire will now be used in combat, but we nerfed the power and morale return.... oh any you must make smores and sing kumbaya before entering combat.

We are now giving hunters stealth like the burgs, but it is the original stealth were you move at half speed and all attacks from stealth now give the biq Yellow Hello. Speed debuff lasts 30 seconds after emerging from stealth. Wishes granted hunters... have fun out there and be safe now.

Tydalmir

/signed

Playing other classes (LM and Mini) have shown me the weak spots the class has that are harder to realize while playing my hunter. I guess I just got used to the limitations. From my healer's point of view, a champ > hunter. From my LM's point of view champ > hunter. Same role with better tools, more armor, mitigations and damage. Plain and simple. The one and only advantage is only if the hunter stays out of melee, which may or may not happen depending on threat management. There's things that need addressing with the hunter class but Desperate Flight isn't one of them.

1) A dependable aggro dump.
2) A better power return.
3) A self-heal (that's effective!)
4) Since melee skills are already part of the class, higher damage on melee skills. If they're there, make them useful.
5) Higher damage on ranged skills.

Those are a few improvements that come to mind that I personally would like see, I'm sure others have more!

I suppose that if the devs go through with an improved DF for entire fellow, then the other raid/fellow members will most likely be presented with a message on their screen requesting their agreement to DF with the hunter or stay behind. I do agree tho, that this is a waste of effort on behalf of hunters. DF isn't broken (I never use it), but a lot else is broken and should be looked at first, IMHO.

Happy hunting!

Hey guys, thanks for all of the responses thus far. Its been less than a full day, but I'm glad that a lot of people have already given some of their time to say something.

I've added those that have had a positive response to this thread (namely, those against against this 'improved' desperate flight) to the list on the first page. That said, I did not include people that left comments that were indifferent, disagreeing, or just here to give sarcastic applause.

If you've been wrongly added to this list, please send me a private message or another response.

Moving on, I'll address this post, which I've quoted, below.

Originally Posted by kotorswbf2

I know I know, my hunter is only level 28. Here's my(probably bad) idea: Why not have two different types of Desperate Flight? One that only works on yourself, and the other only works in your Fellowship and it affects the whole Fellowship. Someone might accidentally press it and mess up the whole group. Then there should be criteria required for it. For example: All the Fellowship only has a third of their Morale left.

If there were two versions, I'd be a little even more worried about the space on my hotbar (twice the chance to click/hit it) ... or, I would find it very unuseful if I kept one (or both) of these skills just within the skill panel. Usually, if you're going to pop the skill (in a non trolling sense) you're doing it because your hp is low.

As you've noted, if the /fellowship/ only had a 3rd of their morale left it may seem like a better idea. This usually is never the case. Healers (Minstrels/Rune Keepers when traited) tend not to heal the group on an equal basis. In a raid, or even a regular group setup, the guardian or warden is taking a helluva lot of damage. Also, everybody's morale pool is different. Most hits don't take out the same chunk of percentage.

Oh, and... a situation could happen where a hunter ports the rest of the group, but not him, or herself.

Can put me in the list from an extensive thread (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ad-Hunter-idea...).
I am so amazed we had a blue name response to that.

/signed

Not gonna waste my breath explaining how stupid this skill is and how devs consistently think up of "grand" schemes for hunters which turn out to be epic fails

Originally Posted by Bond007

/signed

Not gonna waste my breath explaining how stupid this skill is and how devs consistently think up of "grand" schemes for hunters which turn out to be epic fails

GRAND FAILS!

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summed up plans for hunter over next 10 years.... check!



.

Each class will only get 3-4 new skills in RoR.

If we are use up one for this moronic Improved DF,
and one for our hunter's port.

Then we will get just *one* new (real) skill with Rohan.

This is too entertaining. I am sure blue name will eventually ruin it all by stating DF is actually being revamped from the ground up and shared benefit is no longer called "Run away, run away!".


But before that happens - signed, though it feels like supporting using oxygen & water.

Of course their could be other criteria. Or there could be an option for the Fellowship to vote if the Hunter should be allowed to use it or not. There could be a certain way of making it so that the Fellowship puts in their vote. Of course there should still be criteria.

/signed

Improved Desperate Flight to affect the entire fellowship = bad idea.
please please please do NOT implement this!

/signed.

For those of you arguing that they are only experimenting, I would contest that even experimenting with such a useless and unwanted skill is a reflection of their complete lack of attention to the hunter community and needs. I don't care if its finalized or being thought about, its a bad move all around.

/signed. you would have to be crazy to think group-wide desperate flight is a good idea.

/signed. After all the time and effort our veteran hunters have put into forum threads explaining the many issues that should have priority, THIS is what the devs come up with?

Originally Posted by zalladi

Can put me in the list from an extensive thread (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ad-Hunter-idea...).
I am so amazed we had a blue name response to that.

lol, she only responded to say the thread needed to be banished to the desolation of the hunter forums, when fellowship-wide DF affects anyone who participates in fellowships and therefore has every reason to be in the General forum. Not exactly the blue name response we were hoping for. We should be allowed to discuss this in a thread that cuts across classes, as I'm sure all classes will have an opinion when a hunter accidentally resets/bugs Draigoch or Saruman in the final phase by pushing the wrong button.

Why not just remove DF from your hotkeys then, I probably will on mine anyway since all it does is save me that little 10 minute debuff once in a blue moon?

But yeah i can see a big problem if a hunter accidentlys the whole fellowship and become the only class that has a skill making us be capable of being SOLELY responsible for failing a boss.

/signed.

I'd be severely disappointed if one of our new skills is wasted on something that would hardly ever have any utility. It is absolutely useless solo. It is absolutely useless in the Ettenmoors. In raids/instances, if you have to df your group out, chances are many of your group is already dead. You'll still have to rebuff, rez, etc. anyways. And it's only usable every 30 minutes (not that this matters much since I can't imagine using this skill more than once every 30 days). Please pick a skill that would have more utility to "improve". Why waste one of the new class skills on something as meaningless as df? Seriously the only time I ever use it is if I get stuck or want to save some time traveling in the general direction of a rez circle.

PS: Posted this in another thread, but thought I'd share it here too

And /signed.

What next? Improved Bards Arrow: 0,1s longer fear, but to balance it, the whole group gets a 5 sec fear. Hunters are THAT mighty, that every time they shoot an attack, the whole group fears that they will get agro.

But then why should I sign it? Its part of one of the devs masterpiece of thinking. Explanation and long story:

It is a dark night. Your whole group of friends gathered up to the feared endgame instance. The one even the valiant fear of speaking of. So dark, even Morgoth himselfs wets his pants. You know what I'm refering to... The Great Rohan Fishing Expedition. Calm down, I just mentioned it.

You and your courageous 11 fellows gathered up in the darkest of nights, where dawn is far, and lead by the horse lords, you travelled 10 meters outside of the main hub, to Anduin the great *shudder*. Your raid must survive! Gasp! It's him! Arghh!!! He got the tank in his jaws! Who will save the guard from the wrath of the Giant Devouring Dark-Goldfish?

You gathered up the last of your courage, and click on your fishing skill. A critical hit! The rod lands on his eyes! The evil creature retracts to his watery lair. But wait! "You have acquired a [Giant Devouring Dark-Goldfish Scale]!". The hunter, realizing that he got the ultimate barter item, presses Legendary Desesperate Flight and sends he and his fellows to safety and he got the scale, due to his helpfulness in the group.

See? Hunters will be clearly OP in Rohan. It's one of the most incredible, well-though and smart thing the dev did.

If you think that I was serious, you need to update the file "SarcasmDetect.exe" to the version 2.3.7.

Originally Posted by Catisa

wow imagine my total lack of surprise to see who started this 100% inaccurate whinge-a-thon thread..

OMGIKNOW I'm as shocked as you are.

Originally Posted by SaintBass

My reaction to this thread:














Yes, I read the whole thing.

I lol'd. And believe me, I try really hard not to laugh at posts by SB.

/not signed
Until I've been able to test it (if I manage to get access to BR this year for beta), I reserve any major critiques. My knee-jerk reaction is that it's a bad idea, but until I've seen it fully implemented, it's unfair of me to pass judgment.

Originally Posted by Ayrolen

OMGIKNOW I'm as shocked as you are.


I lol'd. And believe me, I try really hard not to laugh at posts by SB.

I don't know why... I'm frikin irresistible.

/signed

I hope they have something better up their sleeve than this. I pay for my VIP like every other class, please give me something better than useless moors armour set bonuses and pointless skills.

/signed - The class has other concerns that need to be fixed. Nobody has asked or even thought about DF, and nobody cares. If this continues it's just sad and stupid.