Thread: Riders of Rohan - Captain Wishlisting

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Ministrel and Warden a little bit. I don't like playing Alts - I like to find my favorite class then stick with it. One reason I didn't last very long on SWTOR. Playing multiple classes is just not my thing.

What's are the level of the alts?

If it's not very high, then all the perspective you have on how the captain compares to other classes is essentially worthless book knowledge, which is why the stats and numbers are helpful, because it is a quantitative analysis of a class.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

I didn't find it too bad levelling, though without Sure Strike at the time I found it a bit tedious to auto-attack so often. But I levelled up my Captain first, my RK second. Had I done those in reverse might have been more of a painful experience for me. I'd say that the only reason Blade Brother is high level is path of least resistance -- rather than re-juggle slots, they added new skills to levels higher than 65... If they have the mandate to re-jigger skill order, making Blade Brother a lower skill is a really fine idea.

Until you get MoW captain dps is sooo baad. Angmar still such a painful time for baby-captains.

I assume they left it that way out of laziness. But maybe it was a nod to those of us who struggled through that whole period of time.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

What's are the level of the alts?

If it's not very high, then all the perspective you have on how the captain compares to other classes is essentially worthless book knowledge, which is why the stats and numbers are helpful, because it is a quantitative analysis of a class.

I was never comparing Captains to other classes...nor was I attemping to do a "quantitative analysis" lol

My point was leveling Captain was easy and fast when I did it. In fact it was so fast I was wishing I could turn off my experience bar because I was leveling at such a pace I was forced to skip over entire areas of the game to stay on par level-wise with the content I was doing.

I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a difficult time leveling on this game as a Captain. As I said before, I can't relate to that. Just wasn't my experience at all.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Fighting Withdrawal is a handy move. It just suffers from what I like to call the "click syndrome" - which is often very prevalent on gaming forums.

I use this term to describe people who get used to doing content with the same people - often people who out-gear most of the content - and it causes them to view the game based off those situations alone. This in turn leads to a very elite perspetive that excludes and scoffs at many game elements that aren't of benefit to them.

I think you mean clique-syndrome (not just posting to correct your spelling, but makes what you mean a lot more understandable when you use the right word)

And I agree about FW, it has its uses. it may not be the most glamorous skill we have but then why should every skill be one we use every fight, some skills are for incidental use and I think that is fine.
Certainly not the biggest fish to fry in the Captain kitchen.

Originally Posted by Thoronthor

I think you mean clique-syndrome (not just posting to correct your spelling, but makes what you mean a lot more understandable when you use the right word)

And I agree about FW, it has its uses. it may not be the most glamorous skill we have but then why should every skill be one we use every fight, some skills are for incidental use and I think that is fine.
Certainly not the biggest fish to fry in the Captain kitchen.

lol yes, that's that I meant Thoro. Ty for the correction.

I agree that Fighting Withdrawal has its uses. But maybe we could petition the devs to remove Withdraw from the game and give us Fighting Withdrawal at level 46 instead. That way we can get a fun skill at level 62 instead of the lamest skill upgrade in the book (or so I imagine).

NB4
I think cappys are perfect and fine at the moment. Were in a good place right now and in no need of changes either small or large.

However I wouldn't mind seeing the halberd changed to a bazooka, and dual wielding capability.



* "But you just said two completely contradictory things"

$ "No I didn't, I said however..."

* "oh okay... now it makes sense..."

Something i forgot to add in my comment

MAKE PRESSING ATTACK 5.2m range like ALL aoe melle skills ;p
(its only 4.2)

Originally Posted by Armitas

NB4
I think cappys are perfect and fine at the moment. Were in a good place right now and in no need of changes either small or large.

However I wouldn't mind seeing the halberd changed to a bazooka, and dual wielding capability.



* "But you just said two completely contradictory things"

$ "No I didn't, I said however..."

* "oh okay... now it makes sense..."

lol a bazooka...

Generally I think you're right though. We're fine atm and don't really "need" any changes. There is no significant flaw in the class right now that I know of.

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

I agree that Fighting Withdrawal has its uses. But maybe we could petition the devs to remove Withdraw from the game and give us Fighting Withdrawal at level 46 instead. That way we can get a fun skill at level 62 instead of the lamest skill upgrade in the book (or so I imagine).

I'm not so self-centered as to say to axe it if others use it. I was offering my perspective, which is that it largely sits unused. Given that others seem to find it more useful than I do, I'll try and find some uses for it. As I said above, on the rare times I get unwanted aggro, it usually is fine for it to beat on my heavy armor for a bit But I agree, Withdrawl, with its decreased damage, is pretty feeble use of a slot. I'd be happy if withdrawl became Fighting Withdrawl, and Fighting Withdrawl became either something new, or added an AOE daze, or something interesting...

Originally Posted by DuneBug

Until you get MoW captain dps is sooo baad. Angmar still such a painful time for baby-captains.

Again, leveling my Captain first, didn't find it so bad. Wasn't in that much of a rush, and like the survivability of my Capt. My Captain found some things easier to do than my rather squishy RK, so there are tradeoffs for the DPS. I also think the whole herald thing could use some love at this point, both the associated traits and the heralds themselves...

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

I agree that Fighting Withdrawal has its uses. But maybe we could petition the devs to remove Withdraw from the game and give us Fighting Withdrawal at level 46 instead. That way we can get a fun skill at level 62 instead of the lamest skill upgrade in the book (or so I imagine).

I agree, although my prize for most useless upgrade goes to Improved Song of Distraction (minstrel skill). What your saying is I have 3x the chance to pull the group by the mob resisting... I didn't use you before, I'm not going to use you now

Originally Posted by 00CloughRN

I agree, although my prize for most useless upgrade goes to Improved Song of Distraction (minstrel skill). What your saying is I have 3x the chance to pull the group by the mob resisting... I didn't use you before, I'm not going to use you now

No no, they don't immediately pull if they resist. It's the coolest thing in Pits and on STAB/WTAB in the moors.

oh must have changed that, clearly I don't read patch note closly enough. And I never go to the moors. But ok I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Generally I think you're right though. We're fine atm and don't really "need" any changes. There is no significant flaw in the class right now that I know of.

I wasn't serious.
That was a "in before x" post with a subtle and failed attempt at a teachable moment.

Originally Posted by Armitas

I wasn't serious.
That was a "in before x" post with a subtle and failed attempt at a teachable moment.

oh...

Well I still agree with it. Rather it was serious or not

Though I was wondering why a guy who suggested a total revamp of Captains in another thread not too long ago would be making a statement like that. So that clears that up some for me lol

Originally Posted by Jeremi

oh...

Well I still agree with it. Rather it was serious or not

Though I was wondering why a guy who suggested a total revamp of Captains in another thread not too long ago would be making a statement like that. So that clears that up some for me lol

I don't recall suggesting a total revamp of captains.

I was trying to bring awareness to the "I think cappys are fine but change X" that is all over our cappy suggestion forums before it happend again here.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Generally I think you're right though. We're fine atm and don't really "need" any changes. There is no significant flaw in the class right now that I know of.

Jeremi. I can't follow you man. How can you even say this after the last two threads you started. Help me understand.

Originally Posted by Armitas

I don't recall suggesting a total revamp of captains.

I was trying to bring awareness to the "I think cappys are fine but change X" that is all over our cappy suggestion forums before it happend again here. .

Wasn't you the guy who started that thread about adding that whole Charisma feature to Captains? I don't know.. maybe I have you mistook for someone else, but that seemed like a pretty significant change to captains to me. That's what I was referring to.

And yeah, I understand what you was doing now. But I really do feel Captains are fine right now - that's why I agreed with you. But that being said, nothing is ever perfect so there is always room for improvements so I got no beef with people discussing ways to improve Captains. That is, afterall - one of the reasons for these forums. So don't misunderstand what I was doing there.

Originally Posted by Armitas

Jeremi. I can't follow you man. How can you even say this after the last two threads you started. Help me understand.

Ok I will try

Like I said - just because I feel captains are in a good spot right now with no significant flaws - doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. Notice I quoted the word "need". I did that for emphasis, because just because I don't feel there is nessassarily a "need" for changes, that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind seeing some, long as they are resonable.

Hope that helps clear it up.

That was my post. I would read the whole thread, every page. What you're saying about it doesn't quite jive with what was presented.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Notice I quoted the word "need". I did that for emphasis, because just because I don't feel there is nessassarily a "need" for changes, that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind seeing some, long as they are resonable.

Hope that helps clear it up.

You many not realize this but you're not coming off as "I wouldn't mind seeing..." in those threads. One was even a demand for change to SoTD followed by an exclamation point. You even followed up by saying 'it needs to happen already'. (talking about SoTD being self targetable)

On the one hand your telling me you feel there is no need for changes, and on the other you're outright demanding it.

I realize this structure is designed to duck scrutiny while maintaining a suggestion but we have a pretty decent community. Just stick it out there were not that bad. This place is like a little slice of heaven compared to other game forums.

I suggest to make the dagor 3third piece bonus to a normal trait/capstone bonus for in LtC trait line.

I'd like to see maybe a new 'tactics' buff on our way to 85.. Maybe a +finesse buff?

Cal

Originally Posted by Calead

I'd like to see maybe a new 'tactics' buff on our way to 85.. Maybe a +finesse buff?

Wouldn't mind a new bonus or some rebalancing. Generally at this point most tanks take parry, basically everyone else takes crit. Rarely healers might ask for focus. Focus hasn't stood the test of time well, what is it, 236 or something with LI, 70 without?!? Focus is such small potatos compared to BB/Song Brother Inspire and Now for Wrath that it is swamped anyway.

idea: Give focus ICPR + outgoing healing, or something, to give it new life...

If I could pick 1 thing I'd have to pick my biggest annoyance with the captain. Our non attack skill speed is so cumbersome. Everything on our "to-do list" before combat seems to take so long.

Here is an example of our to-do list before combat can begin.
swap weapons
Crit/parry buff everyone
Swap emblems
ICPR 1 person
swap back to main legendaries
Swap 5 armor pieces for motivation buff
Motivate (for me, now motivate the other group)
swap armor back
Mark (from here down is every pull)
Banner
Blade brother
Strength of will
Swap emblem
Time of need
Swap back
War Cry
Swap weapon
To arms
Swap back
Find the target assist
inspire
attack.

Originally Posted by Armitas

If I could pick 1 thing I'd have to pick my biggest annoyance with the captain. Our non attack skill speed is so cumbersome. Everything on our "to-do list" before combat seems to take so long.

Here is an example of our to-do list before combat can begin.
swap weapons
Crit/parry buff everyone
Swap emblems
ICPR 1 person
swap back to main legendaries
Swap 5 armor pieces for motivation buff
Motivate (for me, now motivate the other group)
swap armor back
Mark (from here down is every pull)
Banner
Blade brother
Strength of will
Swap emblem
Time of need
Swap back
War Cry
Swap weapon
To arms
Swap back
Find the target assist
inspire
attack.

While not as extensive, that's about what I'm doing before starting an instance proper, and then before each fight. It's also a fairly good reason to have the following legacies rolled into their base skills:
To Arms
Motivating Speech
Tactics: Crit, Parry, Focus

That would reduce the above to:
Here is an example of our to-do list before combat can begin.
Crit/parry buff everyone
ICPR 1 person
Swap 5 armor pieces for motivation buff
Motivate (for me, now motivate the other group)
swap armor back
Mark (from here down is every pull)
Banner
Blade brother
Strength of will
Swap emblem
Time of need
Swap back
War Cry
To arms
Find the target assist
inspire
attack.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

I suggest to make the dagor 3third piece bonus to a normal trait/capstone bonus for in LtC trait line.

completely moot point. The next class changes will be with Rohan. Rohan brings an extra 10 levels witch will bring us new armour with new bonuses.

Originally Posted by Armitas

That was my post. I would read the whole thread, every page. What you're saying about it doesn't quite jive with what was presented.



You many not realize this but you're not coming off as "I wouldn't mind seeing..." in those threads. One was even a demand for change to SoTD followed by an exclamation point. You even followed up by saying 'it needs to happen already'. (talking about SoTD being self targetable)

On the one hand your telling me you feel there is no need for changes, and on the other you're outright demanding it.

I realize this structure is designed to duck scrutiny while maintaining a suggestion but we have a pretty decent community. Just stick it out there were not that bad. This place is like a little slice of heaven compared to other game forums.

Armitas, you just got me figured wrong here. Look up in this thread and you will see I've actally agreed with several of the suggestions, and even offered some of mine. You are reading too much into my statement about how I am content with the way Captains are and dont' feel changes are "needed". Just because I dont' feel they are nessassarily "needed" doesn't mean I woudn't mind seeing some. And the only reason I even added that post in this thread to begin with was because I thought your's was a serious post and I wanted to agree with you about something since I disagreed with you on your charisma idea (and of course it would end up backfiring on me lol).

If I had known it wasn't a serious post I would have never even said that, and certainly not in a thread like this that was trying to encourage suggestions on how to improve the class.

And yeah - there are some changes I do feel should have happened - and a long time ago at that. Shield of the Dunedain being self-targetable is one, which I did make a very passionate thread about and I'm guessing is what you referred to But I don't feel even that change is "needed". But I would very much like to see it happen, and believe it should happen.

Like I said, just because I do feel Captain is in a really good spot right now and are fine the way they are, that doesn't mean I won't support or call for changes I feel should happen. Nothing is perfect, and there is always room for improvement.

As far as your comments about the Captain forums, I got some issues with it but those are my issues. I woudn't concern yourself with it - and I got no beefs with you. You have always conducted yourself with intregity on these forums and I respect that. And I have never said anything rude to you - least not that I am aware of.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

Wouldn't mind a new bonus or some rebalancing. Generally at this point most tanks take parry, basically everyone else takes crit. Rarely healers might ask for focus. Focus hasn't stood the test of time well, what is it, 236 or something with LI, 70 without?!? Focus is such small potatos compared to BB/Song Brother Inspire and Now for Wrath that it is swamped anyway.

idea: Give focus ICPR + outgoing healing, or something, to give it new life...

I like that idea: icpr+outgoing heal bonus from the focus buff. I haven't had anyone ask for focus buff for over a year.
Would be nice if the level 80/85 War Banner starts including. Current War Banner makes it seem like our Tactical brothers (Lore-master, Minstrel and Rune Keeper) don't go to war. So have the new War Banner have 85 Might, Agility and Will.
Be nice if the x-brother skills would be available at lower levels.

Originally Posted by Carrottop

I like that idea: icpr+outgoing heal bonus from the focus buff. I haven't had anyone ask for focus buff for over a year.
Would be nice if the level 80/85 War Banner starts including. Current War Banner makes it seem like our Tactical brothers (Lore-master, Minstrel and Rune Keeper) don't go to war. So have the new War Banner have 85 Might, Agility and Will.
Be nice if the x-brother skills would be available at lower levels.

To be honest Tactical: Focus is under-estimated. It's a really nice buff that can give you over 250 ICPR. that's nothing to scoff at.

It's true not many people ask for it - but that's just because most people are obsessive over damage - but it can really help sometimes. I use it on ministrels a lot of times when I see them struggling with power rather they asked for it or not - because it does make a difference.

Healers like crit buff because it improves healing output.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Healers like crit buff because it improves healing output.

Yeah I know. Me as a healer I prefer Critical Raiting to Focus as well most of the time also. BUT if someone is struggling with power Focus is better buff for them, rather they realize it or not. That's what I'm saying.

As I said in previous posts relating to Song Brother - running out of power is the number 1 thing as a healer you do NOT want to do.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

... running out of power is the number 1 thing as a healer you do NOT want to do.

Thats why we have loremasters

Originally Posted by CaptainSweden

Thats why we have loremasters

We don't "have" loremasters Sweden. They don't fit into our pockets, and we can't carry then around with us where ever we go. We DO however actually "have" the tactical: Focus buff.

Loremasters are nice to have around - but any Captain who builds or plays his class to be dependent on a loremaster being present in the group is going to be severely limiting themselves.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

We don't "have" loremasters Sweden. They don't fit into our pockets, and we can't carry then around with us where ever we go. We DO however actually "have" the tactical: Focus buff.

Loremasters are nice to have around - but any Captain who builds or plays his class to be dependent on a loremaster being present in the group is going to be severely limiting themselves.

So getting used to the LMs debuffing ability is a bad idea now?

/confused

Tactics: Focus is good for mocking your friends, that's about it.

I'd like to see Song-brother SoW turn into +XX% crit heal multiplier. Maybe +15%. For reference, if a healer crits 25% of the time (crit chance + dev chance) and has a net 200% crit multiplier (100[base] + 50[crit default] + 50 [legacies, fate, w/e]), a +15% crit heal multiplier would make that healer's heals increase by an average of 3%.

In a simplified example, out of a 100 heals worth 100 morale each before crit. heal*#heals*multiplier. Crit term + non-crit term.

100*(25)*2.0 + 100*(75)*1.0 = 12500
with increased crit mag
100*25*2.15 + 100*75*1.0 = 12875

(12875-12500)/12500 *100% = 3% difference


This could help make Song-brother the clear winner for AoE healing.

Just 2 things that come in mind:

1. Finesse buff (maybe 'improved' relentless attack can incorporate this)
2. Oathbreakers dealing non-common damage

Personally, I think we're in good position now.

Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer

I'd like to see Song-brother SoW turn into +XX% crit heal multiplier. Maybe +15%. For reference, if a healer crits 25% of the time (crit chance + dev chance) and has a net 200% crit multiplier (100[base] + 50[crit default] + 50 [legacies, fate, w/e]), a +15% crit heal multiplier would make that healer's heals increase by an average of 3%.

*math*

This could help make Song-brother the clear winner for AoE healing.

Agreed. We've already seen what Relentless Optimism does for our healing output, why not push that even further? I think this is a good approach to the SoW/Song-Bro problem.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

So getting used to the LMs debuffing ability is a bad idea now?

/confused

Yeah well... I have no clue as to why you can be confused by what I said. So let me repeat what I actually said for you:

"Loremasters are nice to have around - but any Captain who builds or plays his class to be dependent on a loremaster being present in the group is going to be severely limiting themselves. "

Now explain to me where in that post I said "getting used to the LMs debuffing ability is a bad idea now?"

You can get "used to" what ever you want, just don't become dependent on something unless you are absolutely sure you can have it around all the time. Otherwise you are going to be limiting yourself.

Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim

Tactics: Focus is good for mocking your friends, that's about it.

Nope.

It's a nice buff. 250+ ICP is nothing to scoff at, and if a player is struggling with power it can make a real difference. All of our tactical buffs are nice, including this one.

But ty for proving my earlier point about how this buff is under-estimated and unfairly scoffed at by so many

Originally Posted by phantasml

Just 2 things that come in mind:

1. Finesse buff (maybe 'improved' relentless attack can incorporate this)
2. Oathbreakers dealing non-common damage

Personally, I think we're in good position now.

A finesse buff added to relentless attack would be nice. I like that idea.