Thread: Why Should I Bite?

$20 worth of extra TP and something that should have been there in the first place, to me, does not make up for being threatened by Turbine and then having silly, ridiculous excuses thrown at me.

I want others' opinions on this. Does it seem like a fair deal to you? Should I accept that mistakes have been made, or continue demanding a refund and moving on to greener pastures?

I love LotR. Tolkien's books were what filled my childhood with lots of sword/stick fights and fake dragons. I wouldn't be who I am today without Tolkien.

But I feel like that by biting this newest offer, I'm opening myself up to have this experience happen again and again.

What do you think?

Originally Posted by frayedknot

$20 worth of extra TP and something that should have been there in the first place, to me, does not make up for being threatened by Turbine and then having silly, ridiculous excuses thrown at me.

I want others' opinions on this. Does it seem like a fair deal to you? Should I accept that mistakes have been made, or continue demanding a refund and moving on to greener pastures?

I love LotR. Tolkien's books were what filled my childhood with lots of sword/stick fights and fake dragons. I wouldn't be who I am today without Tolkien.

But I feel like that by biting this newest offer, I'm opening myself up to have this experience happen again and again.

What do you think?

I think you have gotten exactly what you wanted: The instance cluster as a part of the expansion package, and bonus TP.

Thanks to your efforts and that of other players who were unwilling to accept what they saw as wrong-action on Turbine's part, all players now benefit.

My suggestion? Instead of worrying that you might be falling at the hands of the giant (so to speak) be thankful that by standing up for what you believed was right, you got as much as - probably more than - you ever intended.

As someone who didn't buy the expansion due to the many issues and the way Turbine was handling things, I'm able to re-visit that decision.

Sooo ... thank you! And thanks also to the many players who added their voice and their thoughts, and to Turbine for listening.

I think you asked turbine to make good on their original post of including cluster instances for free as their original email asked..

They did that.

And then on top of it felt they needed to add TP to make it worth while. If you want to move on then I'd say do it. But I challenge you to find any other company that responds to customer out cry with a reward like this. Personally I have had a lot of products (not just MMO's) go bad and have a much tougher time getting anything from them. (thinking about 6 months to get a replacement dishwasher that was a lemon from the start)

They said their sales were strong on this (yes you can say they are lying) so they didn't need to do this. This was about making people happy. If you still have a bitter taste about what it took to make this happen then I think you missed the point that this company is looking at the feedback and responding to it.

My Opinion.

Originally Posted by BentoIce

I think you have gotten exactly what you wanted: The instance cluster as a part of the expansion package, and bonus TP.

Thanks to your efforts and that of other players who were unwilling to accept what they saw as wrong-action on Turbine's part, all players now benefit.

My suggestion? Instead of worrying that you might be falling at the hands of the giant (so to speak) be thankful that by standing up for what you believed was right, you got as much as - probably more than - you ever intended.

As someone who didn't buy the expansion due to the many issues and the way Turbine was handling things, I'm able to re-visit that decision.

Sooo ... thank you! And thanks also to the many players who added their voice and their thoughts, and to Turbine for listening.

Thank you for the honest reply.

I am happy it changed. The only thing keeping me from diving back in is the fear that this will happen again and again. I can hope it won't, but I... Simply don't know.

I want to believe the amount of complaints will be a lesson for Turbine and that the game may indeed go back on the right track, but I'm not sure I want to set myself up for disappointment again.

It's a nice gesture from Turbine, but I am worried about repeating this process of feelings of betrayal and arguments and back-and-forths with the BBB and Turbine's customer service.

Originally Posted by BentoIce

I think you have gotten exactly what you wanted: The instance cluster as a part of the expansion package, and bonus TP.

Thanks to your efforts and that of other players who were unwilling to accept what they saw as wrong-action on Turbine's part, all players now benefit.

My suggestion? Instead of worrying that you might be falling at the hands of the giant (so to speak) be thankful that by standing up for what you believed was right, you got as much as - probably more than - you ever intended.

As someone who didn't buy the expansion due to the many issues and the way Turbine was handling things, I'm able to re-visit that decision.

Sooo ... thank you! And thanks also to the many players who added their voice and their thoughts, and to Turbine for listening.

My thoughts exactly BentoIce.

I expect Rohan content will be awesome and now that the IC and TP have been added it's time to move on.
I just have to decide if the Legendary is worth $70 to me or if I go with the $40 option.

I feel Turbine certainly made mistakes with this announcement... but now that they have taken steps to remedy those mistakes I just hope there wasn't permanent damage done to the player base.

I never pre-ordered in the first place, so I didn't have to deal with what you went through. That said, I'm personally satisfied with what is given now for the pre-order. I'm quite happy with the value of the new offer and I will probably pre-order sometime soon.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

I want others' opinions on this. Does it seem like a fair deal to you? Should I accept that mistakes have been made, or continue demanding a refund and moving on to greener pastures?

That is completely up to you. I already provided my opinion on the "threat" and think it is more bad communication skills than anything else. Is that a good thing? No. But it is not the end of the world, either. I hope Turbine does improve their communication and learns from this.

As for a refund, the point was the inclusion of the instance cluster, yes? If so, you now have exactly what you thought you were getting, plus TP on top of it. You are the only one who can decide your next move.

If you decide you truly want a refund, then you probably don't want to deal with Turbine at all anymore and it should not matter what happens to the account. Again, though, up to you.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

$20 worth of extra TP and something that should have been there in the first place, to me, does not make up for being threatened by Turbine and then having silly, ridiculous excuses thrown at me.

I want others' opinions on this. Does it seem like a fair deal to you? Should I accept that mistakes have been made, or continue demanding a refund and moving on to greener pastures?

I love LotR. Tolkien's books were what filled my childhood with lots of sword/stick fights and fake dragons. I wouldn't be who I am today without Tolkien.

But I feel like that by biting this newest offer, I'm opening myself up to have this experience happen again and again.

What do you think?

For me the instances were the big thing not extra tp. So I'm glad the xpac price now includes instances. The biggest thing for me though is that they're going back and adding stuff to these expansions shows that they do still listen when they come out with something players feel is ridiculous.

I do think though that these kind of things have a good chance of happening again though. I feel like they brought at the first offer, and then saw the feedback or sales that were far below their predictions so they went back and changed it. Either waw they changed the offer we were complaining about so in the end I'm happy.

I worry that these kinds of offers will continue to happen like this but as long as the offers are changed when the community rises up I'l stay content.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

$20 worth of extra TP and something that should have been there in the first place, to me, does not make up for being threatened by Turbine and then having silly, ridiculous excuses thrown at me.

I want others' opinions on this. Does it seem like a fair deal to you? Should I accept that mistakes have been made, or continue demanding a refund and moving on to greener pastures?

I love LotR. Tolkien's books were what filled my childhood with lots of sword/stick fights and fake dragons. I wouldn't be who I am today without Tolkien.

But I feel like that by biting this newest offer, I'm opening myself up to have this experience happen again and again.

What do you think?

Ultimately it's up to you. I didn't pre-purchase, but if Turbine threatened to ban my account because I bought something that they very clearly falsely advertised - yeah - I'd leave. And use whichever laws necessary in my country to get a refund if they continued to be pig-headed about it.

At *minimum* they owe you an apology - and your money back!

Originally Posted by frayedknot

I want to believe the amount of complaints will be a lesson for Turbine and that the game may indeed go back on the right track, but I'm not sure I want to set myself up for disappointment again.

I hope so too, but no guarantees. Unless and until the business model in this world changes from "what the market will bear" to "what both allows us to be profitable and tends to our customer's needs", the opportunity to be disappointed will continue. As consumers we have the right, potentially the obligation, to speak up when we don't agree with what we're being presented with. That's exactly what happened here.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

It's a nice gesture from Turbine, but I am worried about repeating this process of feelings of betrayal and arguments and back-and-forths with the BBB and Turbine's customer service.

Originally Posted by Thornglen

If you decide you truly want a refund, then you probably don't want to deal with Turbine at all anymore and it should not matter what happens to the account. Again, though, up to you.

I think Thornglen has given you the best possible response to your fear: If your gameplay is lessened because you mistrust WB/Turbine because of the responses you got to your request, then you may want to continue with your action for a refund. You're the one it happened to, you're the only one who can decide that. Personally, I hope you'll be able to put it behind you and stay on in the game and the community. But if you decide not, then all the best to your on your journeys.

Originally Posted by BentoIce

As someone who didn't buy the expansion due to the many issues and the way Turbine was handling things, I'm able to re-visit that decision.

Sooo ... thank you! And thanks also to the many players who added their voice and their thoughts, and to Turbine for listening.

I'm in the same position. I'm still uncertain about buying RoR, but the new offer is still more attractive. For those who hesitate between the heroic and legendary edition, the later is much more attractive now, the +1000TPs and the 6th bag (995 TPs) worth ~20$.

Originally Posted by BentoIce

Thanks to your efforts and that of other players who were unwilling to accept what they saw as wrong-action on Turbine's part, all players now benefit.

be thankful that by standing up for what you believed was right, you got as much as - probably more than - you ever intended.

I'm able to re-visit that

And thanks also to the many players who added their voice and their thoughts, and to Turbine for listening.sion.

This is a big move by Turbine. And we should give them credits for this.

And no need to say thanks. You are welcome ^^

I think only you can decide which way to jump on this. The important thing is that you feel comfortable with your decision.

Turbine lost my confidence with their marketing for ROI and their entire approach to RoR is a replica of it right down to adding the instances to the deal as an afterthought and to show they are 'listening' to their customer base. If they were able to learn from last year they would have included in the instances this year from the outset... just like the original FAQ indicated.

Food for thought... a fair few forum folks indicated that they thought the instances would be free to VIPs since they were announced as not being part of the 'expansion' - if this was Turbine's plan then they have just removed the instances from the VIP subscription and added them to the 'expansion'.

So decide for yourself which way to jump, but if you decide to let it go don't do so counting on Turbine to change its marketing ethos... just do it to save yourself the stress and perhaps even enjoy the game as it is.

The community is reason enough to stay. I'm not like to find another as great as LotRO's any time soon.

I won't be giving Turbine another cent until I see some real improvement, and I will be continuing my discussion with them about compensation for the way I've been treated.

Thank you all for the support. I'm known as Laecnethryth in-game, on Landroval. I feel like Turbine has taken me for a very long ride and I need to press them a bit harder to show that not everyone is a pushover.

One would hope that this is a wake-up call for the heads at Turbine.
They should now be aware that they cannot treat customers with as much contempt as they have done in the past week.
I include all of FrayedKnots troubles with them, of course, in this recent behaviour.
I really do hope that this is a lesson they won't soon forget, because as I've said in other threads, I want this game to fulfil it's potential, I want to see it do well. But I will not, and others among me as well, be taken for a ride in the fashion that Turbine's attempted in the week since pre-purchasing became available.

While there is life, there is hope. I certainly hope this will hold true for the next few years of LOTRO.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

$20 worth of extra TP and something that should have been there in the first place, to me, does not make up for being threatened by Turbine and then having silly, ridiculous excuses thrown at me.

I want others' opinions on this. Does it seem like a fair deal to you? Should I accept that mistakes have been made, or continue demanding a refund and moving on to greener pastures?

I love LotR. Tolkien's books were what filled my childhood with lots of sword/stick fights and fake dragons. I wouldn't be who I am today without Tolkien.

But I feel like that by biting this newest offer, I'm opening myself up to have this experience happen again and again.

What do you think?

I'm sorry they treated you that way. It's somehow harder coming from something even game-Tolkien related. I know it's not 'the real thing,' but some of the same issues have bothered me. As to what you should do - whatever you're comfortable doing. I take some reassurance that they did react to complaints & sweeten the pot. I personally think they did exactly what they had to do here - include the cluster when it's released to those who buy the expansion, & hand out some TPs. - which will make me spend TPs... which isn't good, but you can't fault them for trying!

You could always wait a bit, take some time away - and read the books again to get the spirit back.

Considering the whole fiasco about what happened, if Turbine/WB (whoever decides these things) have good marketing analysts and stuff (which I'm sure they do), they'll know what happened when they tried to cross the line with the community and stepping over.....the community really stood up for what they believed in was correct, and now that Turbine have remedied what was wrong, I think they'd know enough to not do it again and be more careful.....

Once bitten, twice shy.......but for Turbine...not the community So I'd be one to not worry much.....I am one of those whose trust they won back by being out and clear about it....

Sorry about what you had to go through though....cant be a happy experience....but well....all's well that ends better isnt it?

Originally Posted by VoronturEU

One would hope that this is a wake-up call for the heads at Turbine.
They should now be aware that they cannot treat customers with as much contempt as they have done in the past week.
I include all of FrayedKnots troubles with them, of course, in this recent behaviour.
I really do hope that this is a lesson they won't soon forget, because as I've said in other threads, I want this game to fulfil it's potential, I want to see it do well. But I will not, and others among me as well, be taken for a ride in the fashion that Turbine's attempted in the week since pre-purchasing became available.

While there is life, there is hope. I certainly hope this will hold true for the next few years of LOTRO.

Agree 100%

Someone in Turbine needs to tell Paiz or whatever his name is that there is a line in the sand and his whole they will complain but still buy marketing strategy did not work this time and won't work next time either.

I'm not gonna say thx turbine for anything, this was nothing more than a marketing strategy that backfired, the post should read we listened to our lawyers ( as opposed to our fans ).

Next time Turbine sell a expansion they better have all there ducks lined up beforehand.

Originally Posted by Podraig

Agree 100%

Someone in Turbine needs to tell Paiz or whatever his name is that there is a line in the sand and his whole they will complain but still buy marketing strategy did not work this time and won't work next time either.

I'm not gonna say thx turbine for anything, this was nothing more than a marketing strategy that backfired, the post should read we listened to our lawyers ( as opposed to our fans ).

Next time Turbine sell a expansion they better have all there ducks lined up beforehand.

Certainly. Turbine really shouldn't be thanked for much of anything, at least not thanked for "caring about their customers". This is a marketing move. Might have been influenced by their lawyers who realised Turbine isn't going to have any footing if this ends up in court, might be from their marketing team. Drop the ball then pick it back up and shine it. Either way, this was a decision forced by the community, not a gesture of kindness from Turbine.

They might learn from this. I doubt they will, though. I hope they will, but I doubt it.

I'm not the only one who has been mistreated by Turbine. I'm simply one of the few who isn't intimidated by threats and isn't afraid to be vocal about how they've been treated.

Thank the community and the people who were brave enough to stand up to Turbine (not myself, I couldn't have done it without all the backing I have received from here and lotrocommunity.com, as well as mmorpg.com). THEY are the real heroes, not Turbine.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

I won't be giving Turbine another cent until I see some real improvement, and I will be continuing my discussion with them about compensation for the way I've been treated.

I agree with you on the improvement that is needed. I am curious, though, what would you consider proper compensation for your trouble?

Originally Posted by Thornglen

I agree with you on the improvement that is needed. I am curious, though, what would you consider proper compensation for your trouble?

Honestly, I don't know. They could use a little humbling. I'd love for them to provide a public apology not only for how they've handled the expansion specifically, but for any mistreatment they've done.

It's hard to put a monetary value on feeling betrayed by a company. I could say TP, but then I'd be putting a value on my dignity. Is my mistreatment worth 2,000 TP? 20,000? Is my mistreatment worth a lifetime subscription? I'd love that, but something tells me Turbine isn't going to be very generous to me after the ruckus I've helped cause.

'Compensation' is a tricky word to use. It tends to imply monetary compensation, but again, this is something that's hard to define in monetary terms.

I'm not entirely sure what I could place as sufficiently making up for Turbine's misdeeds. In the end I just want them to acknowledge they've messed up pretty big this time.

Originally Posted by Podraig

I'm not gonna say thx turbine for anything, this was nothing more than a marketing strategy that backfired, the post should read we listened to our lawyers ( as opposed to our fans ).

They knew they would mostly likely see the uproar in the forums, what they were no doubt watching was the sales figures. Unless sales remain down then their marketing strategy hasn't backfired - they have just gone to plan B which was to include the instance cluster and some TP to sweeten the deal and in the process have everyone congratulate them on being great, listening to their fans and recognising their mistakes.

Taking into account the same string of events in RoI I think it is win-win strategy on their part. Personally I cannot congratulate them for doing the 'right' thing under these circumstances... and they will not regain my trust until they show an entirely different marketing ethos that shows more respect and integrity towards their customers.

Why should I bite?

For me it all hangs on the question of mounted combat:

• Is it fun?
• Does it work right? YES THERE IS A BIG ? THERE. Sorry Turbine.
• Is developing your horse rewarding? I don't want some mess like with LIs, much less if I am forced to develop it like in LIs because I would give up too much combat power if I don't.

So I hope that there will be free-for-all Bullroarer testing while the pre-purchase is still ongoing. I certainly won't pay $40 minimum unless I am certain that mounted combat presents value to me.

Originally Posted by frayedknot

Honestly, I don't know. They could use a little humbling. I'd love for them to provide a public apology not only for how they've handled the expansion specifically, but for any mistreatment they've done.

It's hard to put a monetary value on feeling betrayed by a company. I could say TP, but then I'd be putting a value on my dignity. Is my mistreatment worth 2,000 TP? 20,000? Is my mistreatment worth a lifetime subscription? I'd love that, but something tells me Turbine isn't going to be very generous to me after the ruckus I've helped cause.

'Compensation' is a tricky word to use. It tends to imply monetary compensation, but again, this is something that's hard to define in monetary terms.

I'm not entirely sure what I could place as sufficiently making up for Turbine's misdeeds. In the end I just want them to acknowledge they've messed up pretty big this time.

Certainly, I feel the way they have treated you warrants a massive gesture of goodwill on their part.
You should just not treat customers that way.

I want to thank you all for fighting for what is right. The community is sensational here at LOTRO both in game and here on the forums.

I also want to sincerely thank the Turbine employees who read the forums and pass information on to the top, it was because of you guys and gals that your employer listened. It must be hard to work for a company who does not pay attention to the employees who connect with their customer base in game and here. I hope top management will listen in the future and learn from this. Of course I am just assuming this is so but I didn't just fall off the turnip wagon.

And to Turbine top management, a happy game is a healthy game and a winning product.

Seriously doubt you could get a refund now as the content that you thought you were getting is now going to be there and you are also getting TP's for "free". I think it would be way more hassle than its worth.

I do think they owe you an apology at least. I also know if it were me, I'd be telling them to shove it. But I havent just bought RoR (and wont be), so I can walk away easier. The way they acted towards you was one of the major points in my decision making. I've always prepurchased and bought everything for the last 5 years and usually the "best" version as I always wanted to support the game however I could. Now I'm no longer fussed about it. If it dies then so be it. I wont be there to mourn...

After the blunders Turbine made with RoI I waited to see what happened this time and am very glad I did.

They haven't learnt anything from this, they just did another bait n switch by saying that something (the instance pack) would be included... oh wait, won't be included.. oh wait actually will be included in the expansion.

They have not taken responsibility for this, they have just done the bare minimum to appease the easily appeased (here, have a cookie that costs us nothing).

They need to make a public apology, and not from any of the CM's but from someone in management to apologise to all of the loyal players who they would have happily screwed over because they thought they could get away with it. Remember, the CM's didn't make this policy, management did.

Until that happens they will just sit and wait until the next time and do it again, and again and again until they have driven away anyone who supported this game.

Turbine needs to take notice that a loyal communicating fan base will remember - and take action (look at what happened in EVE), and that damage done to that loyalty is far harder to redeem than some cheap coupon in the store.

Turbine have missed a trick here.

I'm a lifetimer and was holding back from pre-ordering because of the terrible pricing. I have always pre-ordered straight away before.

Now that we have TP's and an (eventual) instance cluster included, I will buy the Basic edition.

HOWEVER! - there is no incentive for me to hand over my money and purchase it NOW. I don't get anything out of it until release. I may as well wait until nearer the release date before ordering (and thus retaining my money until then)

In my opinion, Turbine should have included the "exclusive rohan content" (Horse session play) in ALL the packs, not just Legendary - that would have given me the incentive to pre-purchase RoR NOW, rather than later, and Turbine would have got my money earlier, which is of course what any business wants.

A quote that may describe this whole scenario for you personally:

Frodo - "We set out to save the shire, and now it has been saved.. But not for me" (Not sure if that's the exact wording)

Originally Posted by Thornglen

I agree with you on the improvement that is needed. I am curious, though, what would you consider proper compensation for your trouble?

I think a public apology acknowledging that threatening the accounts of people who ask for a refund was wrong. And also accepting that it is their responsibility to ensure information posted in FAQs is correct and that they were wrong claim it was not legally information on which potential customers should make purchasing choices.

They really have not come out well from this whole sorry episode and if this was my company I'd be looking to identify who was responsible for this whole omnishambles.

A good company would look at this whole sorry affair and consider whether or not a major culture change is needed.

Originally Posted by Shaele

After the blunders Turbine made with RoI I waited to see what happened this time and am very glad I did.

They haven't learnt anything from this, they just did another bait n switch by saying that something (the instance pack) would be included... oh wait, won't be included.. oh wait actually will be included in the expansion.

They have not taken responsibility for this, they have just done the bare minimum to appease the easily appeased (here, have a cookie that costs us nothing).

They need to make a public apology, and not from any of the CM's but from someone in management to apologise to all of the loyal players who they would have happily screwed over because they thought they could get away with it. Remember, the CM's didn't make this policy, management did.

Until that happens they will just sit and wait until the next time and do it again, and again and again until they have driven away anyone who supported this game.

Turbine needs to take notice that a loyal communicating fan base will remember - and take action (look at what happened in EVE), and that damage done to that loyalty is far harder to redeem than some cheap coupon in the store.

Originally Posted by Kongas

I think a public apology acknowledging that threatening the accounts of people who ask for a refund was wrong. And also accepting that it is their responsibility to ensure information posted in FAQs is correct and that they were wrong claim it was not legally information on which potential customers should make purchasing choices.

They really have not come out well from this whole sorry episode and if this was my company I'd be looking to identify who was responsible for this whole omnishambles.

A good company would look at this whole sorry affair and consider whether or not a major culture change is needed.

Totally agreed. A public apology for lying to consumers, threatening those who wanted a refund and violating their own policies as well as breaking numerous deceptive trade practices laws will be at the forefront of my new desired outcome for my BBB complaint. I have complied evidence that shows just how they are lying (a post from Celestrata indirectly stating that, yes, the Knowledge Centre FAQ was indeed what was linked to on the RoR pre-order page), their Digital River 30-day money back guarantee with no mention of an applied product key limitation, proof that how, currently, their Letter of Destruction refund page on their Digital River store ends in a redirect loop with a generic FAQ page, as well as information implying they indeed can remove product keys from an account.

They need to do some serious apologising to the community. Everyone is jumping on the Turbine-praise bandwagon a little too early, and it's giving Turbine the message that, as was said, a few cookies that cost Turbine nothing will fix any bad situation in a snap. This was a complete PR trainwreck, and I'm almost astonished at how easily people are willing to forget it occurred when they're tossed some imaginary money, or how they can't see they're easily folding in to Paiz's blanket statement of "People will complain, but they'll never leave."

I am indeed grateful they changed the packs. However, the instance cluster and Turbine Points should have been there in the first place, and Turbine needs to keep building trust and bridges, because they've ruined quite a few of those over the past couple of years.

Everyone who has helped me gather evidence and given me wonderful advice for my personal BBB complaint, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. And to everyone else who stood up for what is right, thank you. It's a draining process and, much like healers, we're left feeling under-appreciated at the end. We've had to fight this battle one too many times, and from my point of view, we aren't done fighting just yet.

/salute

Originally Posted by frayedknot

I am indeed grateful they changed the packs. However, the instance cluster and Turbine Points should have been there in the first place, and Turbine needs to keep building trust and bridges, because they've ruined quite a few of those over the past couple of years.

Everyone who has helped me gather evidence and given me wonderful advice for my personal BBB complaint, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. And to everyone else who stood up for what is right, thank you. It's a draining process and, much like healers, we're left feeling under-appreciated at the end. We've had to fight this battle one too many times, and from my point of view, we aren't done fighting just yet.

/salute

As one of hundreds, potentially thousands who voted with their wallet and many also with their words, you're welcome!

If you feel your fight is worth continuing, I wish you all the best in achieving whatever satisfaction you are looking for.

I will tack onto your thanks my thanks to the forum devs for allowing these conversations to take place here. I've had dealings with many a company who wouldn't even acknowledge consumer upset, or respond to improve it, let alone allow such conversations on their own site.

Things might not be completely as we wish they were, but the company does respond. There is hope something was learned here. But if it wasn't, well then we take the banner up again, and keep doing it until we are heard. If you think about it, the process we went through here has ramifications in every walk of life. ::whispers "power to the people!":: ;=)

Let me see. 40$ minimum for an 'expansion' by a company notorious for not caring enough about their game to give it content updates or fix bugs in a timely manner (premium class wardens neutered for 4 months after RoI) for who knows what content, or pay the same amount and move on to another game, with a developer I trust?

Name me any other free to play game whose expansion packs cost this much. the 30$ I paid for RoI is the last cent turbine is ever getting from me. How dare they even call it an expansion pack when there is less content than most developers content updates. Answer: to get you to pay more money for it. you pay it because you love middle earth but you're setting a dangerous precedent for people who play because they love MMO's. I can't think of any other community that would not only buy into this, but defend it at the same time. you guys are some masochists with way too much disposable income if you think this is a good deal.