Thread: New Abilities for RK in RoR and Mounted Combat and Fire

I see this discussion hasn't been started yet, so I figured why not. Are there any types of skill you guys want to see come out in RoR? I would love to see more direct damage fire spells, more along the lines of SW and EoF. I think we have plenty lightning skills already so I don't mind if we don't get many more with the update.

And how is mounted combat going to work with fire? will we be able to do inductions or only instant spells? I know they will have specific skills meant for mounted combat only, but I'm curious about how fire would work mounted...

Any thoughts from the RK community? I just want to see what other people want with this update (Fixing bugs aside that is)

I think ZC has his hands full with a million hunter complaints right now so Ill be surprised if RKs even get upgraded to lv 85 with RoR.

Originally Posted by viper0889

I think ZC has his hands full with a million hunter complaints right now so Ill be surprised if RKs even get upgraded to lv 85 with RoR.

ROFL

to the OP:
we will get another set of hotbars with mounted combat skills which will replace our "on-foot" hotbars
those skills will prolly be some sort of mount skills (where the mount does some attacks) and some "iconic" skills for each class as turbine calls it
i'm guessing those will be mounted versions of some of our current skills

Originally Posted by cwrons

Are there any types of skill you guys want to see come out in RoR? I would love to see more direct damage fire spells, more along the lines of SW and EoF.

If you want to do direct damage, play a hunter. Or play a lightning RK. Or play pretty much any other class in the game. Or a majority of classes in any other game. Please, do NOT add anymore direct damage to Fire. Fire is a DoT-centric DPS line. Adding in direct damage turns us into hunters with prettier effects and less armor.

Seriously, OP, just don't play a Fire RK if you want to do direct damage. There are many other options.

Please, take away the Direct Damage from Essence of Flame and turn it back into an 8s DoT.

My wish-list for RoR, in order of priority:

1) Fix my rock! Broken instance geometry is nerfing my best group heal by 23%.

Do something! Make it an aura or allow the rock to float in the air (like the LM raven) or whatever... Just sort it out somehow.

2) Make sure our DPS and HPS remain on-par with hunter/champ/burg and minstrel.

Just keep things fair.

3) Fix our threat management. This includes describing/fixing how MF/DF works, bumping the threat dump of DW as well as any other things you devs can think of.

One idea I like from WoW: Misdirect - Any threat generated by you for the next N seconds will appear as coming from the selected target. Can only be used OOC and makes you neutral attuned. This will help the tank build aggro early in the fight.

...

N) Critical hit with EoF places a strong, short duration, DoT on the target.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

One idea I like from WoW: Misdirect - Any threat generated by you for the next N seconds will appear as coming from the selected target. Can only be used OOC and makes you neutral attuned. This will help the tank build aggro early in the fight.

I was actually thinking of something similar, only it wouldn't require targeting a Fellow. Instead you target any mob, and using the skill immediately switches that mob's target either to someone else (I was thinking simply the next tab target) or nothing.
1) Still counts as an "aggro-escape" skill WITHOUT being an "aggro-manipulation" skill.
2) If you pull aggro on the tank's target, it doesn't require you to switch targets.
3) Once our current threat management skills are corrected, we won't need much more real aggro manipulation anyway.
4) It would make Ettenmoors RvR circumstances when ppl are focus-firing MUCH more interesting

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

N) Critical hit with EoF places a strong, short duration, DoT on the target.

Are you paying attention, Zombie Columbus? I'm not the only one, I'm just the loudest.

Yeah, Essence of Flame as a DoT would be nice. How about adding a +AoE targets legacy? I guess that might be pretty OP. How about changing MF's debuff to be -tactical mitigation instead of -tactical resist?

Originally Posted by Gylve

Yeah, Essence of Flame as a DoT would be nice. How about adding a +AoE targets legacy? I guess that might be pretty OP. How about changing MF's debuff to be -tactical mitigation instead of -tactical resist?

1) When you add targets, you have to reduce damage. Just a necessary evil.
2) MF puts -tact. resist? I thought it always gave -tact. mit. I think I would prefer the mitigation; I can overcome the resists with Finesse, which is pretty easy to get.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

I was actually thinking of something similar, only it wouldn't require targeting a Fellow. Instead you target any mob, and using the skill immediately switches that mob's target either to someone else (I was thinking simply the next tab target) or nothing.

Like Burglars "Enrage" but one-shot or would it be a short duration "aggro shield"? Would be fun in Ettens if everyones target just went somewhere else, randomly :P

Creep 1: Dere is lunch ... dooh I mean RK
Creep 2: Oooo Oooo Oooo howl on dat dere ooc dat lunch is served!
Creep 1: ./OOC lunch at lug but got dere friends wit! wanna come zerg?
Creeps: rfi
...
Creep 1: Ok u logheads I look at lunch now see? see? no no no not dere warden you death-with reaver. DERE de RK!
Creep 5: ooo sorry!
Creep 1: lots! many! two! one! zeeeeeeeerg!
...
RK: Guys. Seems I'm being focused, using deflect.
Freed raid: Ok. Just keep zapping!
Creep 1: No no no you logheads hit lunch not others! look where I point now!
Creep 2: Errrr... u point at warden now!



Skill would be horribly useless in PvE though as you really truly don't want random aggro. In fact, I'd rather bite the bullet and run infront of the boss and die rather than have aggro jump to someone else randomly, e.g a healer.

Bla bla bla

Go back to changed affinity by switching weapons for do not fall to flame/frost/lightning. The dps skill to change the affinity doesn't help if you're healing and is counterproductive when dealing damage.

Other than that... New pvp map? Please..PLEASE

Originally Posted by johnny11

Bla bla bla

Go back to changed affinity by switching weapons for do not fall to flame/frost/lightning. The dps skill to change the affinity doesn't help if you're healing and is counterproductive when dealing damage.

Other than that... New pvp map? Please..PLEASE

I'm not sure I'd prefer going back to having to use swap out stones to switch affinity. I've more or less gotten into the habit of using the new system quite effectively. The only one complaint I have is not being able to switch affinity outside of combat.

To be fair, I don't generally DPS on my RK, so perhaps it is more counterproductive there... from a healing standpoint, however, with practice, you can generally swap between 3 affinities (i.e. for lightning wing, for example, - fire for fall to wrath, lightning for dnft storm, frost for rune-sign of frost; other wings, you can get by with swapping between two affinities) with relative ease without much of a detriment to your overall healing. It's something I'm still trying to perfect, but I've improved substantially with practice.
At this point, though, I find the new system overall less clunky than the old swap out system, but that may only be due to the fact that I've practiced consistently swapping affinities as the situation calls for it while raiding.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

Skill would be horribly useless in PvE though as you really truly don't want random aggro. In fact, I'd rather bite the bullet and run infront of the boss and die rather than have aggro jump to someone else randomly, e.g a healer.

Ahhh, but what if you ARE the healer?

Edit: Oops, forgot the first part. I was thinking just a one-shot thing, but I haven't really thought too far into it. I wouldn't want it to be like a Champ's, Rising Ire; that would be OP. I'd want it to be just enough to get the RK out of hot water, but not enough to do anything more. Instead of randomly targeting something else, maybe it could be a 5s buff that grants, "For 5s, you cannot be targeted by enemies," usable every 3 minutes or so. Something along those lines. Just a means of escape.

For that matter, Eldar's Grace has some potential. The cooldown is too long to be useful as it is, but 5s of 100% evade would be as useful as any aggro-escape skill.

In my opinion i like to see rk's get a AoE rez like the mini. I also like to see Rousing Words heal little bttr. I rarely trait fire so i got no comment about the fire skills and we do have enough lighting skills.

One request for now. Single target, none induction frost damage skill with a semi-small cooldown.

how about making flurry of words scale? i've been asking more than a year now, it really needs to be worth casting other than to impress the lowbies you're helping out with weathertop.

and an idea for ooc attunement switching, just place it on the writs and EoS. when targeting self the writs and Eos switch attunement to their own element, make the skill castable on self but without the damage or effects, that way we can switch attunement out of combat. Seems like a simple solution. Actually any skill could be used.....

i want shall not fall this day to be castable on self, this would improve survivability, and allow us to survive wipes, (like mini flop) and get straight back to rezzing.

i want to see essence of flame return to a dot too.

i would like to see the armour of skills (frost and lightning) become a little more potent, more than just a 30% chance when a warg pack is munchin on us,

take away or lessen the amount of life lost to all fates entwined, we need it to heal in the moors and it hurts SO MUCH to keep it up.

not sure if Zombie is aware of it, but since Orion buffed them the warg population has exploded to what feels like half the creeps on being wargs. and they never run solo. i would like to see zombie answer in kind and give us some moors tech. Cause atm with bought skills, we can't compete with wargs. It's oh so easy to double silence from a pounce and then wreck us for the next 10 seconds. or just straight up out dps us. the wargs are too numerous, please zombie, stand up for us, you're our dev, you're the person we're counting on to take a stand for us.

make our bubble last longer, and make it castable on self only while dps attuned,

make the bubbles from essay of exaltion and word of exaltion stackable

give us a fourth tier on our dps writs.

make our runestone not fall through the floor, and make it burn for small amounts when dps traited instead of healing.

increase the duration on their weapons shall not harm us, atm we just hit it every 30 seconds when it comes up. part of what we were trying to avoid with calming verse.

with these changes non of which i think are op, i could be happy going to 85 as we are.

also make will our stat for crit rather than fate so that we are on the same playing field as burgs and hunters.

Originally Posted by loki84

also make will our stat for crit rather than fate so that we are on the same playing field as burgs and hunters.

Or make change Fate to grant more crit rating to RK's, hunters, and burglars.

Originally Posted by loki84

how about making flurry of words scale? i've been asking more than a year now, it really needs to be worth casting other than to impress the lowbies you're helping out with weathertop.

Dunno about scaling, but I think changing the center of the AoE from the RK to the targeted enemy would go a long way.

Originally Posted by loki84

and an idea for ooc affinity switching, just place it on the writs and EoS. when targeting self the writs and Eos switch affinity to their own element, make the skill castable on self but without the damage or effects, that way we can switch affinity out of combat. Seems like a simple solution. Actually any skill could be used.....

Fixed that for ya. Actually, not a bad idea. I don't know if there is a precedent for a skill that has a different effect if used on an enemy vs a fellow. Might involve some new tech. Either way, it makes way too much sense. Never happen.

Originally Posted by loki84

i want shall not fall this day to be castable on self, this would improve survivability, and allow us to survive wipes, (like mini flop) and get straight back to rezzing.

Love this idea! If used on self, it grants a free revive.

Originally Posted by loki84

i want to see essence of flame return to a dot too.

Preach it.

Originally Posted by loki84

i would like to see the armour of skills (frost and lightning) become a little more potent, more than just a 30% chance when a warg pack is munchin on us,

The % might not need changed, if the duration were longer.

Originally Posted by loki84

take away or lessen the amount of life lost to all fates entwined, we need it to heal in the moors and it hurts SO MUCH to keep it up.

Meh. I have to confess, I use it less now that it is changed. I think it was better the old way, but I'm not gonna ride it like I'm riding the Essence of Flame change.

Originally Posted by loki84

not sure if Zombie is aware of it, but since Orion buffed them the warg population has exploded to what feels like half the creeps on being wargs. and they never run solo. i would like to see zombie answer in kind and give us some moors tech. Cause atm with bought skills, we can't compete with wargs. It's oh so easy to double silence from a pounce and then wreck us for the next 10 seconds. or just straight up out dps us. the wargs are too numerous, please zombie, stand up for us, you're our dev, you're the person we're counting on to take a stand for us.

Stealth is just a source of annoyance and fail in the moors. My vote is to remove all stealth in the Moors, or limit it's duration to 3 seconds or something (for freeps and creeps). EZ-moders will ALWAYS settle on the "shortest path of resistance," and playing a warg is so easy it's stupid.

Originally Posted by loki84

make our bubble last longer, and make it castable on self only while dps attuned,

In my RK simulator, either the 6- or 7-trait bonus is "Word of Exaltation is usable at all attunements!" Naturally, it makes sense. So it will never happen.

Originally Posted by loki84

make the bubbles from essay of exaltion and word of exaltion stackable

Will involve some new tech, considering they would have to stack with Champ/Mini bubbles too. I think stacking might be OP (otherwise, you could 23x stack some champ, who just became invincible). I would be happy if one bubble replaced the other, so that it could be filled back up if there was only a sliver left.

Originally Posted by loki84

give us a fourth tier on our dps writs.

Rather see it as a bonus somewhere than as a skill change.

Originally Posted by loki84

make our runestone not fall through the floor, and make it burn for small amounts when dps traited instead of healing.

WRT the falling through the floor thing, remember when RK's had a 4-deep fire trait bonus that reduced all skill power costs by 20%? And how that bug never actually got fixed, and was instead replaced? Yeah. The stone falling through the floor thing won't ever get fixed. It will get replaced, and its replacement will be... meh. Or it will be broken. With respect to a Sigil of DPS, makes too much sense. Never happen.

Originally Posted by loki84

increase the duration on their weapons shall not harm us, atm we just hit it every 30 seconds when it comes up. part of what we were trying to avoid with calming verse.

The problem with this is that 1) nobody really likes the way Calming Verse was changed, and 2) if we start complaining about it, Zombie will change it into something that is less useful than it currently is... like he did with Calming Verse.

well if flurry became targetted it'd lose it's only use, knocking wargs outta stealth. i got a million idea's for flurry but i would like to hear what zombie thinks of it and it's place before i start suggesting things, that way i can at least try to meet half way.

wargs..... honestly on brandywine, most creeps out are wargs, and they are designed to kill what class? i don't mind dying, but i like to participate, and being stunlocked and silencelocked blows. thing is they can escape whenever they please, they have a ton of i win buttons, i would like to log into gv and not just be tempted to log out again when ooc says there is several packs out.

actually sigil of dps would solve several problems at once, it would give most rk's something they wanted since they saw their first stormkeeper lieutenant, it would be a ward against gank packs, not wrecking the wargs game, but not letting them all just get a free kill without resistance either. the warg would clearly see the sigil and not walk in till they were ready to. the damage could even be as wimpy as the heals, as long as it knocks the warg outta stealth, and it could (if it were a fire dot) contribute to fire dot dps, maybe with it's own smoldering wrath benefit too!

their weapons shall not harm us would just be the same as dnftX instead of having 30 second duration it'd have 1 minute or heck even 2, that way i could cast it and horse up for a bit, atm i rarely even horse up just so i can keep it up.

Crazy skill suggestion - on death response for Pulses with a 4 second application window.
20% of Pulse heal will be returned to the FS as power for the whole skill duration.

For example:
Prelude to Hope applied a heal to Neen restoring 130 points to Morale.
Prelude to Hope applied a heal to Neen restoring 26 points to Power.

Dont think RK's need healing de-agro Skill at all. If your pulling mobs off the tank with your healing then I would suggest that you have a bad tank.

On top of that a couple of things may help.

Do not put PH or MV on the tank before the fight starts. I die inside when i see RK's do this then complain they have aggro.
Use your bubble as soon as it is off cooldown. I see a lot of RK's holding onto it for "emergenceys" Group bubble and HoT + TWDNKU are perfecly addequate.


Try it out and see if it helps. If it does then +rep, if not well what works for one person doesnt always work for another.

Originally Posted by Lao10

Do not put PH or MV on the tank before the fight starts. I die inside when i see RK's do this then complain they have aggro.

This is also true for Minstrels and Captains who also tend to be trigger happy on skills

Originally Posted by Lao10

Use your bubble as soon as it is off cooldown. I see a lot of RK's holding onto it for "emergenceys" Group bubble and HoT + TWDNKU are perfecly addequate.

No. Keep the bubble and Woundrous Foreshadowing and use then *when needed/appropriate* not as soon as they's off cooldown. Burning them asap just means you have fewer tools to work with when the brown stuff actually hits the fan.

Healing is not about getting the highest HPS, it's about keeping your HPS/power use as low as possible while still managing to keep the essential parts of the group alive

Many good ideas. I'd like to see something as simple as removing Might, Agility and Out of Combat regen from the LI pool.

Normally I put glorious foreshadowing on the tank asap, and use words of exultation on the hunter that already pulled agro. I always save essay of exultation for bad times, but I end up using it quite often.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

Fire is a DoT-centric DPS line. Adding in direct damage turns us into hunters with prettier effects and less armor.
Please, take away the Direct Damage from Essence of Flame and turn it back into an 8s DoT.

Quoted for emphasis. Fire isn't my flavor, but Essence as a DD skill still makes me scratch my head.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

My wish-list for RoR, in order of priority:
1) Fix my rock! Broken instance geometry is nerfing my best group heal by 23%.

Do something! Make it an aura or allow the rock to float in the air (like the LM raven) or whatever... Just sort it out somehow.

2) Make sure our DPS and HPS remain on-par with hunter/champ/burg and minstrel.

Just keep things fair.

3) Fix our threat management. This includes describing/fixing how MF/DF works, bumping the threat dump of DW as well as any other things you devs can think of.

One idea I like from WoW: Misdirect - Any threat generated by you for the next N seconds will appear as coming from the selected target. Can only be used OOC and makes you neutral attuned. This will help the tank build aggro early in the fight.
N) Critical hit with EoF places a strong, short duration, DoT on the target.

Yes. 1 removes the best CC in the game (that's a LOL, in case those reading didn't catch the sarcasm), and I won't miss it. 2 is implied, but worth repeating. 3 is important for several reasons: how broken is MF/DF considering we don't actually know what it does/whether the tooltip matches the mechanic. I'm guessing the threat dump on DW is at the current level because "Oh, they have a legacy to reduce that cooldown. We can't make it too OP". I like misdirect, but making it OOC only limits the usefulness to pre-combat. I dunno about you guys, but I don't have threat problems before combat. (I'm making a joke here, I read the description and understand what you're saying, but an OOC-only threat modifier doesn't reallly help us.) Making our current threat tools functional and easily understood is a better solution, and likely easier to implement.

Separate paragraph, I like the EoF idea, but I'm taking it one step further. Since general consensus (of the ~8 people that post here regularly), is to make it a DoT again, I'd like to give it a functionality based on the name. If someone is hitting you with the ESSENCE OF FLAME, I'm guessing if they crit, it's going to pass straight through you. Normal hit applies an average damage/short-duration DoT (entrance wound), Crit Hit applies a potent DoT w/ shorter duration, or (I'm so sorry, Malf) a direct dmg (exit wound).

Originally Posted by Gylve

Yeah, Essence of Flame as a DoT would be nice. How about adding a +AoE targets legacy? I guess that might be pretty OP. How about changing MF's debuff to be -tactical mitigation instead of -tactical resist?

I'm down with a +AoE targets legacy, but let us make it Winter skills only, or modify it into the current VI legacy. I've seen enough complaints about Fire AoEs having limitations in usefulness, etc. because we can't decide how or when to use the AoE besides moving traits.

Originally Posted by loki84

how about making flurry of words scale? i've been asking more than a year now, it really needs to be worth casting other than to impress the lowbies you're helping out with weathertop.

make our runestone, ... and make it burn for small amounts when dps traited instead of healing.

How is your proposed change to the runestone for DPS not almost exactly the current function of Flurry of Words? Do you want this skill or not? Flurry of Words, outside of moors, doesn't serve any real purpose. How will this new fire-dmg rune sigil be any different?

Originally Posted by loki84

i want shall not fall this day to be castable on self, this would improve survivability, and allow us to survive wipes, (like mini flop) and get straight back to rezzing.

No. Our healing survivability is already absurd, and this will only push people towards saving this for themselves, instead of a panic button to save a group-mate. Giving RKs a flop-parallel removes yet another of the subtle differences between the two classes. Don't get me wrong, I fully support some of the other parallel changes of late (read: Dread Removal.)

Originally Posted by loki84

i would like to see the armour of skills (frost and lightning) become a little more potent, more than just a 30% chance when a warg pack is munchin on us.

So, make the two good armor skills more ridiculous, and ignore the laughing-stock one (Fire). Frankly, with DR, you get more mileage out of both frost and lightning with the significantly-less-than 100% proc chance. Make fire useful, if the skills are truly too weak, add 5sec duration.

Originally Posted by loki84

take away or lessen the amount of life lost to all fates entwined, we need it to heal in the moors and it hurts SO MUCH to keep it up.

I can't even take this one seriously. The change from the last version was a huge buff, IMO. I almost exclusively heal in the moors now, and I can run All Fates from the time I hit attunement until I run out of power, roughly defined as 5-10mins after the last LM dies. The damage component is laughable, WoH stack by itself is going to cover you.

Originally Posted by loki84

not sure if Zombie is aware of it, but since Orion buffed them the warg population has exploded to what feels like half the creeps on being wargs. and they never run solo. i would like to see zombie answer in kind and give us some moors tech. Cause atm with bought skills, we can't compete with wargs. It's oh so easy to double silence from a pounce and then wreck us for the next 10 seconds. or just straight up out dps us. the wargs are too numerous, please zombie, stand up for us, you're our dev, you're the person we're counting on to take a stand for us.

RKs need better tools for PvMP. Not. The issue is not that we don't have the skills, gear, or builds to compete. You ID'd the heart of this issue and ran the other way: They never run solo. Couple that with multiple CC types, and a choice between permanent stealth or a continuously refreshing morale bubble, it's pretty easy to see why wargs are FoTM. The point is, more "tech" or DPS for RKs is NOT GOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. End.

Originally Posted by loki84

make our bubble last longer, and make it castable on self only while dps attuned

I don't have a problem with the concept of the DPS bubble, simply nerf it to compensate, something like double cooldown duration (2-3 mins depending on legacy). Considering the hit we take to WoH output by traiting and gearing DPS, I don't really see a problem. That said, making it last longer in healing or DPS, is totally unnecessary.

Originally Posted by loki84

make the bubbles from essay of exaltion and word of exaltion stackable

give us a fourth tier on our dps writs.

increase the duration on their weapons shall not harm us, atm we just hit it every 30 seconds when it comes up. part of what we were trying to avoid with calming verse.

with these changes non of which i think are op, i could be happy going to 85 as we are.

In order:
No. Ridiculously overpowered. Compromise solution: Attempting to bubble a target with word of ex, who is already bubbled by any bubble skill, will reset the cooldown on word of ex. My only complaint with bubbles is when 2+ people go to bubble the same target, and one bubble is completely wasted. Especially for say, a champion, lol.

Unnecessary. How could we benefit from this? I'm guessing you want better debuffs on cold, more dps on fire? No point.

I disagree with comparing a group-wide mitigation skill to CV (required 1/min cast, personal buff). My whole take on the short duration is that it is NOT intended to have 100% up-time. When healing, I only use it when I need it, or everyone is at t3 WoH, nearly full on morale, and RW is still on CD.

OP is a personal view-point, but I agree with the conclusion. We really don't need much on the way to 85, I'm pretty content.

Originally Posted by loki84

also make will our stat for crit rather than fate so that we are on the same playing field as burgs and hunters.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

Or make change Fate to grant more crit rating to RK's, hunters, and burglars.

Fate sucks, I can't think of a single class that actually needs fate, currently. I don't want to have to add Fate into a build. As said before, I can't speak on hunters, I don't play one. Burgs need crit from agi to be viable (DPS rotation is initiated by a crit). RKs don't need any more crit, both my healing and DPS setups are 10k+ crit, without really trying. If any changes are made to crit, bring back Tac. Crit. Multiplier. And by bring back, I mean release high-level rings & gloves (there are two lvl75 robes with this fossil) with the stat, so I can finally upgrade.

Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR

Many good ideas. I'd like to see something as simple as removing Might, Agility and Out of Combat regen from the LI pool.

Totally agreed, awesome suggestion.

PS: Really love how this thread derailed. Also, its not personal, Kalymnor, simply the person who posts the most suggestions has the most material to comment on

Originally Posted by stock

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

One idea I like from WoW: Misdirect - Any threat generated by you for the next N seconds will appear as coming from the selected target. Can only be used OOC and makes you neutral attuned. This will help the tank build aggro early in the fight.

I like misdirect, but making it OOC only limits the usefulness to pre-combat. I dunno about you guys, but I don't have threat problems before combat. (I'm making a joke here, I read the description and understand what you're saying, but an OOC-only threat modifier doesn't reallly help us.) Making our current threat tools functional and easily understood is a better solution, and likely easier to implement.

Yes, it's a tricky one to balance. Allowing it only OOC was the easiest way and it would allow us to help groups with I-always-start-with-heart-seeker-Hunters and premature-healing-syndrome-Healers. Sure, it's a lot less potent than an in-combat version.

The in-combat version would need to have a decently long cooldown, at least comparable to Distracting Winds, probably as long as 3 minutes. Being able to cast EC+SW+EoS with misdirect could, if the RNG likes you, generate 25k+ of threat for the guard! That's one huge jump!

Another option would be to give it a fixed, level and TDR dependent, threat pool, i.e. you'll give threat to the guard for the next N thousand damage. The cooldown could be shortened to, say 60 or 90 seconds. The effect would be double: (1) You'll be completely threat neutral while you have threat-pool left and (2) The tank will leap ahead by the same amount as you're not (if you get what I mean). N would probably be in the range of 6-8 meaning that a devastate EC would still be threat positive, although a lot less AND the guard is still leaping ahead by 6-8k threat.

The main benefit of misdirect is that it helps ALL other DPS:ers as well by accelerating tank threat generation It's not a fancy Minstrel Anthem buff but allowing a hunter to DPS 10% more without pulling threat is worth it just the same (as opposed to buffing a hunter 10% making him/her pull aggro). It could even work on healing Rune-Keepers albeit slower as healing threat is half of that of DPS threat. A Rune-Keeper pushing out a lazy 1200 HPS would effectively give the tank the equivalent of 600 DPS threat on-top of what (s)he is normally generating.

Originally Posted by stock

Fate sucks, I can't think of a single class that actually needs fate, currently. I don't want to have to add Fate into a build. As said before, I can't speak on hunters, I don't play one. Burgs need crit from agi to be viable (DPS rotation is initiated by a crit). RKs don't need any more crit, both my healing and DPS setups are 10k+ crit, without really trying. If any changes are made to crit, bring back Tac. Crit. Multiplier. And by bring back, I mean release high-level rings & gloves (there are two lvl75 robes with this fossil) with the stat, so I can finally upgrade.

Everyone wants some Fate but getting that is not hard. Most races and non-caster classes have enough of it. I'd love to see Fate become a stronger stat. As it is today it's totally stupid to push it past 550 (or 500).

I'd like to see Fate become a weak general derived stat multiplier. We set, for each level and class, a "normal fate value". From this we can then derive a multiplier: {Stat-Mult} = (Fate - "Normal Fate")/ "Normal Fate". This multiplier is then applied back to all other stats with varying multipliers and powers. Some kind of diminishing return on the multiplier is probably needed to prevent absurd builds.

For instance a Guardian would get 5x(1 + {Stat-Mult}) morale from Vitality. A Champion would get 10x(1 + 0.5x{Stat-Mult}) Mastery from Might. Resistances, Mitigations, block, etc would also follow similar rules. I *think* that this would mean that each class and stat would hit a break-off point where it's no longer best to stack up, e.g. Might, to maximize DPS.

We could even allow the {Stat-Mult} to add to our crit- and dev-multipliers!