Thread: Question to the vet PvMPers

RvR was ruined by the devs, solo play ruined by the players.

Despite what most people say I do believe 1v1s were always pretty close to balanced, obvious exceptions champs who use bubbles, self healing minis, shield wardens, pre buff BA/WL, etc. I mean, really, high end solo freep vs high end solo creep, its not like its a 6k difference. People ruined this part of pvp, not the devs.

RvR was obviously ruined by the devs, freeps are jsut so much more powerful when grouped; cappy buffs, superior heals/dps, etc.

Oh yeah, that one neglect thing too.

Originally Posted by Derpon

Code Masters sold the game to Turbine

Turbine is the sole developer. Turbine has always been the sole developer. Codemasters was a regional publisher. They had, quite literally, no say whatsoever in *ANY* aspect of the game beyond the languages included. Period.

developers listening to players who have proven, time after time, to be incapable of playing their class at the highest level of competition. That is the true crux. Balance is never achieved adhering to the mean/average. And this isn't to incite or antagonize those players who are not top tier...merely to identify that adjusting classes based solely on the best players' (and their respective classes) capabilities is how pvp should be manipulated.

Its bad, only will get worse. One side gets boosted light years into the future while the other struggles to keep up with the previous update.

Its a shame, if creeps ever became equal to freeps I would gladly start freeping again, but I like playing the underdog.

Originally Posted by Slin6

Fire dot-abused
Revenge-abused and OP. My low ranked BA with that store bought skill on an alternative server would just own things. That skill was ridiculously over powered.
Blight-abused

I agree with you with fire dot but they nerfed it before roi.After roi it should go back to the old values of cd or atleast from 20 s to 10s cd.Revenge SHOULD get back the critical chance and the multiplier.Its a finisher not a simple common skill to use and even now without crit multiplier the dev crit dmg is a joke anw

But tbh with what you say we have to think that EC HS CoF remorseless skills that could and can deal 5k 7k+ are abused the same way revenge was.

Originally Posted by Slin6

I hope you guys saying freep QQ ruined PvP are joking. That is not true at all. I will admit that freep QQ did get some things nerfed but it works both ways. I would say the biggest influence that has changed the moors is crying on the class forums. Minstrel and hnt's and such. That has 1000x the influence as anything on the PvP boards.

I wouldn't say fire dot and blight and such were nerfed necessarily because they were overpowered but because they were abused. If you deny that fire dots had an amazingly large influence on how PvP was then you are an idiot. Every time a big bad skill comes out or a class gets an update creeps run to it and we have them pop up everywhere. I don't agree with everything they have nerfed or how they did it but for the most part the creeps had it coming.

Fire dot-abused
Revenge-abused and OP. My low ranked BA with that store bought skill on an alternative server would just own things. That skill was ridiculously over powered.
Blight-abused

Turbine has to make it fun for both sides. It is a lot more fun to play as the under dog then it is as someone fighting against a half raid of BA's on stab.

Skills were abused? Right?

The fact is the skills you mentioned were powerful skills that creeps had and freeps QQed about them until they got nerfed.

Revenge was no more powerful than many freep skills....pen hot, pen shot, pen shot and certainly not more powerful than an EC.

The stacking fire dot made BA's one dimensional but it wasn't OP. Especially when you consider how many dots a single LM or RK can stack on a creep. These dots tick for a minute too BTW.

Blight only ever effects stupid freeps, they just went QQ crazy about it because it made them use an alternate tactic to the freep ball. It would be like if a creep was QQing about improved sticky gourd....Don't F'ing stand in it!

Here's one of my favorites:

Nerf wargs!!!! They have 4 skills that bypass B/P/E!!! This is too OP!!!

So I'm now waiting for a nerf to the warg shadow stance because of freep QQ. The funny thing is it kinda makes them like 1/2 a tactical freep class. You know the mini, LM, RK who all enjoy 100% of their attacks that bypass B/P/E? Hmmm.


I wonder where most freeps stand on these things:

SOP:R? Should creeps get a skill like that?

What about an AOE stun?

Melee stun too OP for the Reaver; Ok for Champions however?

A 6 person OOC rez?

How about a skill to guarantee a crit on a class that does DPS?

A group bubble?

Fellowships heart?

Should creep healers get an option to avoid induction set back? How about dev crit heals like freeps get while your at it?

I could probably go on naming powerful freep skills that creeps could only dream about; Skills that are out of step with what is needed in balanced PvP. However, we all know that most freeps will never tolerate it if creeps could truly compete on an equal footing.

Originally Posted by ksjock

Skills were abused? Right?

The fact is the skills you mentioned were powerful skills that creeps had and freeps QQed about them until they got nerfed.

Revenge was no more powerful than many freep skills....pen hot, pen shot, pen shot and certainly not more powerful than an EC.

The stacking fire dot made BA's one dimensional but it wasn't OP. Especially when you consider how many dots a single LM or RK can stack on a creep. These dots tick for a minute too BTW.

Blight only ever effects stupid freeps, they just went QQ crazy about it because it made them use an alternate tactic to the freep ball. It would be like if a creep was QQing about improved sticky gourd....Don't F'ing stand in it!

Here's one of my favorites:

Nerf wargs!!!! They have 4 skills that bypass B/P/E!!! This is too OP!!!

So I'm now waiting for a nerf to the warg shadow stance because of freep QQ. The funny thing is it kinda makes them like 1/2 a tactical freep class. You know the mini, LM, RK who all enjoy 100% of their attacks that bypass B/P/E? Hmmm.


I wonder where most freeps stand on these things:

SOP:R? Should creeps get a skill like that?

What about an AOE stun?

Melee stun too OP for the Reaver; Ok for Champions however?

A 6 person OOC rez?

How about a skill to guarantee a crit on a class that does DPS?

A group bubble?

Fellowships heart?

Should creep healers get an option to avoid induction set back? How about dev crit heals like freeps get while your at it?

I could probably go on naming powerful freep skills that creeps could only dream about; Skills that are out of step with what is needed in balanced PvP. However, we all know that most freeps will never tolerate it if creeps could truly compete on an equal footing.

Fire dot wasn't some crazy overpowered skill no. But when you have half the creep population roll them it becomes an issue. As I said in my last post I won't deny that freep QQ had something to do with nerfs. However to say that freep QQ is why Pvp sucks is just an idiotic statement.

Lets think about it for a minute. Fire dot caused a lot of creeps to roll BA's which in turn made the moors filled with ranged fights, more goldtaggers, and just poor quality all around. Now if the only real skill BA's were using at the time (honestly only skill...never saw any hinders lol) was fire dot why would they not change it? I'm not saying I agreed with the change (or the 3 or so changes they made to fire dot) but something had to happen. The moors were no fun at that time for most people and on Vilya we would typically have something along the lines of 5-10 ba's and 5-10 wargs and never any groups.

Revenge wouldn't have needed a nerf had turbine made it a R10 skill only and not available in the store. Unfortunately since it is in the store and most BA's had it a nerf had to happen. Like I said it was ABUSED.

As a mostly solo/small group melee I have hated blight...I wouldn't necessarily consider it OP though. A lot of the freeps who complained about blight were melee classes. If a creep runs through sticky gourd it isn't going to be a game changer. Meanwhile on creep side I never once decided to completely ignore sticky gourd on my reaver in fear of death. On my champ I'm constantly going around blight or ignoring the fight because of it. The two skills aren't really comparable so I'll stop there.

I'm pretty sure most people could go ahead and post a list of things creep side has that freep side doesn't. Creeps have more morale, higher base mits/bpe and finesse to name a few. Now don't get me wrong I 100% agree freeps are OP. I just don't believe that giving certain creep classes 1 or 2 skills to counter that is a good idea.

Oh and don't forget how many creeps run around with items from the turbine store. It isn't like they would stop using TS items if creeps were put on an even playing field. I'm sure turbine will see the answer to that as they should give freeps more store bought stuff...oh boy.

You cannot compare creeps to freeps because they are not the same nor are they intended to be. Turbine needs to make adjustments to make it fun for everyone and I'm sure that is very difficult because of the PvP set up in this game. Every single time creeps get a nice buff the number of creeps sky rocket and we have an overpopulation of the classes that got the best buffs. It happens on freep side as well but not on as large of a scale because of leveling and such. I think it is obvious turbine would rather make the freeps a bit happier then the creeps. For the sake of the game they have to.

I love the last line of your post. It is like the people who chose creep side are completely different then the ones who chose to play freep. Remember it is a game...they are all random people behind a computer.