Thread: To those transferring to Laurelin, a message:

You cannot state it better than you did Vento. +Rep

Originally Posted by VentoPT

To the Op: don't mind the bitterness. I do think your post was done with good faith and helping intentions.
Players ARE transfering out of this server regardless if others like it or not. Those will hopefully understand someday that denial or tabus around a problem does not solve it in the end.

Cheers

I don't know how to link multi-quote, but to all those that understand my post and intent, thanks. I think, Kaldegrim, you couldn't have said it better when you said your kin is growing and you're happy - that is good - If you're happy on WW that is fine, but people are transferring if not happy and this is just a 'warning' so to speak.

Thanks for some of the kind words and good luck to those on WW.

To those who're turning the thread into a discussion on WW's population, just make a new thread :s

Cal

Since the original topic of the thread was not very appealing to us here on WW since it was about laurelin im choosing to bite and reply to the off topic posts:

@ Frepsy: until you actually tell us who you are nobody cares if you leave, its like nobody leaves (get it?)
@ Vento: i am sorry you feel that way really.... but i do have some mentions for those who read what you posted

"the community in this server is not good (to put it politely) and as it shrinks it gets worse as every detail/issue gets much more attention than it should" - i have not seen you being a part of the comunity for ages. And if you judge from the bickering on the forum then your view is skewed. WW people are in a great percentage nice, polite and mature people. And very very laid back. I regret if you see us like nasty people and getting worse....each bitter discussion i ever heard in global was caused by the same people as always and that is not weird.

Im suspecting that your skewed view is due to the fact that once your kin disbanded due to not sharing the same viewed on gameplay (and maybe other things i dont know about) you isolated yourself from the WW comunity. And i dont say this lightly, i myself invited you twice to my kin and got both times a reply that you prefer solo.....and yet you wish more group happened on WW.....

And to all that feel they dont like on WW, just transfer (and im not cinical or ironical). You cause more harm both to the ones that stay and to yourself by staying. Your discontent nurtures hate and bitternes. And bitter people affect people around them. WW offers a cozy atmosphere, too laid back for now to maintain a hardcore kin. If you are hardcore and dont find your fun here find a hardcore server. But DO NOT trash the server, nor should you insult its members.

"If you're happy on WW that is fine, but people are transferring if not happy and this is just a 'warning' so to speak" (Calead) - beware december 2012 is coming....the prophecy told so

I think ther's a need to shed some light on WW situation since many speculations have been made.

@Zrinko: numbers went up steadly until a few months after RoI launched. Then two things happened. One is numbers dropped on all servers as they do after an expansion. More about the second a bit later.

@Calead: you think you know why people leave WW but you dont. You know why you left and thats fine. Talk for yourself but dont give predictions.

Our peak as a server (not counting pre mirk times when many of the old players were still in the game) was definetly around RoI launch. We even were not that much behind with raid progression and we were pretty much enthusiast about it.

But in Ettens a problem was brewing: two of the dominant kins were playing their dirty games there, many arguments about that on closed pvp threads. Cant say much about how stable were those kins (but i know for sure that many didnt like eachother in them) but at one point one of the kins just....transfered (blaming ettens which was gravely disfuntional due to arranged fights and non-cooperation).

Big drop in numbers of veterans then. We recovered and even did raids and such. Good times in pve. Ettens had just lost one of the two main kins, leaving just the aranged fights and selfish stuff. Big storm brewing there.

Then the second dominant kin just split in half. For a small period the hardcore half of it seem to be doing fine. But unstable leadership and ego-centric members affected it to. And also the before-mentioned lack of normality in ettens that offered no opportunity for the players that wanted normality (and didnt wish to fight for it).

They transfer and YET another hit. This left a sort of vaccum in the ettens population and not just that. Then yet another kinship decided to leave so they wouldnt have to contribute to reestablishing some sort of balance ( cannot blame them in any way, its natural to choose the path that is easier to achieve).

So thats 3 kinships left in a domino effect. And others left with them. So Calead maybe now you grasp how complex a MMO server is. It is not ONE thing or ONE person. It is not ETTENS or RAIDS. It is a complex model more to do with social mechanics and interconnecting effects. One badly run kinship really was what triggered a chain effect. The trigger was actually ages ago, hard to even think things are connected. But retrospectively its clear.....i remember when my own kin was emerging, we saw those two kins are being a pillar of the server. Loosing two pillars affect any structure, more even a such unstable construct like a MMO server.

I hope i wasnt to deep in my analisys....its what i do everyday, analyse people and probe them for what they really feel. And hope i wasnt to boring....wanted to shed some light on what was discussed, as i was here during this time and observed all these things unfold before me.

I also do not care if you agree or not...stated my oppinion and wouldnt have made so if i werent sure of my conclusion.

Could have made a new thread for it (maybe on Laurelin server - joking ;-) ) but i figured its well suited here.

Cheers and have a good day all

I have decided to transfer, not because of the population, but because of the community, i cant stand it there anymore.

Originally Posted by Landrovas

@ Frepsy: until you actually tell us who you are nobody cares if you leave, its like nobody leaves (get it?)

Who cares who is my game character me as a person express an opinion. And again me as a person i think u got big issues with the fact people don't like WW. Which i cant understand its not yours to protect it like little child. We all gave part of our time here but still sun shining outside not inside the pc so relax and move on.

@Landrovas all following quotes are from you

I did not want to reply to your posts and your atitude in this thread as I did not intend to go down in a pointless word fight. But I dont dodge it...

[QUOTE]Since the original topic of the thread was not very appealing to us here on WW since it was about laurelin im choosing to bite and reply to the off topic posts: [\QUOTE]

You play around with words all you want. The post was directed to those in WW wanting to transfer to Laurelin. so it has all the right to be here. My main language is not english and even I understood it.


[QUOTE]
@ Vento: i am sorry you feel that way really.... but i do have some mentions for those who read what you posted

"the community in this server is not good (to put it politely) and as it shrinks it gets worse as every detail/issue gets much more attention than it should" - i have not seen you being a part of the comunity for ages. And if you judge from the bickering on the forum then your view is skewed. WW people are in a great percentage nice, polite and mature people. And very very laid back. I regret if you see us like nasty people and getting worse....each bitter discussion i ever heard in global was caused by the same people as always and that is not weird.
[\QUOTE]

Read my post again, the same paragraph i clearly made a distinction between players and community and your attittude in this post is the best example of bad comunity attitude. As for me versus you clearly its a bit arrogant from you to use the term "us". You do not speak for the server comunity nor for the majority of players. My play style does not include "racing" horses in middle earth. If wanted RP i would move to Laurelin.

[QUOTE]
Im suspecting that your skewed view is due to the fact that once your kin disbanded due to not sharing the same viewed on gameplay (and maybe other things i dont know about) you isolated yourself from the WW comunity. And i dont say this lightly, i myself invited you twice to my kin and got both times a reply that you prefer solo.....and yet you wish more group happened on WW.....
[\QUOTE]

I made a post on my personal prespective on the server and my game presence and you fill your post with trash assumptions about me. You are so clever on your sherlock wannabe mind that you forget one thing called facts. Speaking of them... do you know that the players of my disbanded lotro guild have guild and a TS for the "other" game and that I am part of it, that I am still with them, that i am playing betaweekends with them??
So do you have anything else but empty words?
As for your invitations.. because i do have a sense of comunity and politness i would never reply rudely to someone who invites me to a kin. I made it to 75 in this server. I have a good idea about the kins and players here. To the invites i had from players I know and that know me i explained exactly my reasons not to joinning a kin at this point to all other i just wanted to play solo for a while.

[QUOTE]
And to all that feel they dont like on WW, just transfer (and im not cinical or ironical). You cause more harm both to the ones that stay and to yourself by staying. Your discontent nurtures hate and bitternes. And bitter people affect people around them. WW offers a cozy atmosphere, too laid back for now to maintain a hardcore kin. If you are hardcore and dont find your fun here find a hardcore server. But DO NOT trash the server, nor should you insult its members.
[\QUOTE]

There was no bitterness or hate on my post and about transfering out i made it pretty clear why i havent done it yet.

[QUOTE]
Our peak as a server (not counting pre mirk times when many of the old players were still in the game) was definetly around RoI launch. We even were not that much behind with raid progression and we were pretty much enthusiast about it.

But in Ettens a problem was brewing: two of the dominant kins were playing their dirty games there, many arguments about that on closed pvp threads. Cant say much about how stable were those kins (but i know for sure that many didnt like eachother in them) but at one point one of the kins just....transfered (blaming ettens which was gravely disfuntional due to arranged fights and non-cooperation).

Big drop in numbers of veterans then. We recovered and even did raids and such. Good times in pve. Ettens had just lost one of the two main kins, leaving just the aranged fights and selfish stuff. Big storm brewing there.

Then the second dominant kin just split in half. For a small period the hardcore half of it seem to be doing fine. But unstable leadership and ego-centric members affected it to. And also the before-mentioned lack of normality in ettens that offered no opportunity for the players that wanted normality (and didnt wish to fight for it).

They transfer and YET another hit. This left a sort of vaccum in the ettens population and not just that. Then yet another kinship decided to leave so they wouldnt have to contribute to reestablishing some sort of balance ( cannot blame them in any way, its natural to choose the path that is easier to achieve).

So thats 3 kinships left in a domino effect. And others left with them.
[\QUOTE]

...so... even you see something wrong with veteran players leaving or is the "world" perfect as it ever was?

[QUOTE]
So Calead maybe now you grasp how complex a MMO server is. It is not ONE thing or ONE person. It is not ETTENS or RAIDS. It is a complex model more to do with social mechanics and interconnecting effects. One badly run kinship really was what triggered a chain effect. The trigger was actually ages ago, hard to even think things are connected. But retrospectively its clear.....i remember when my own kin was emerging, we saw those two kins are being a pillar of the server. Loosing two pillars affect any structure, more even a such unstable construct like a MMO server.
[\QUOTE]
If the community is/was that good as you claim the fall of 1 kin would not have collapsed so many others

[QUOTE]
I hope i wasnt to deep in my analisys....its what i do everyday, analyse people and probe them for what they really feel. And hope i wasnt to boring....wanted to shed some light on what was discussed, as i was here during this time and observed all these things unfold before me.

I also do not care if you agree or not...stated my oppinion and wouldnt have made so if i werent sure of my conclusion.
[\QUOTE]

Your analysis is not thorough not coherent and not consistent you clearly did not just stated you opinnion as you clearly decided to argue with other players stated namely me which i never addressed you on it.


Final note on your arrogant tone all accross this thread:
You are NOT the spokesman of WW, you are NOT the spokesman of its players (of your kin if that much). Your ego may be to inflated with your GALA title but remember one thing that title brings you closer to Turbine than to the players.
If you want to be Turbine's spokesman in this server go ahead its up to them.



Cheers and have fun organizing races.

Originally Posted by VentoPT

Final note on your arrogant tone all accross this thread:
You are NOT the spokesman of WW, you are NOT the spokesman of its players (of your kin if that much). Your ego may be to inflated with your GALA title but remember one thing that title brings you closer to Turbine than to the players.
If you want to be Turbine's spokesman in this server go ahead its up to them.

Cheers and have fun organizing races.

MY GOD....dont even have what to say really. Ill try this: from the moment i started on this server i have done many many things in the comunity and for the comunity. I am a modest person, all who know me think that. But i WILL be arrogant to those that deserve it. And also cinical and ironical. In real life i can be conforting a little girl who has a terminal illnes one moment and trashing a &&&&&&& person for being unpolite the next. But do not dare call me arrogant.

And start accusing me of stuff when you have done just 1% of what i have done for this server and its players. As opposed to you i play for the fun of others (my kin, the kins were friends with, unkown people that have enjoyed our events). You play for your own egocentrical reasons so you can feel good about yourself and your gear. I have achieved enough in my real life so i dont have to come into a game to boost my ego.

I have just one phrase for you: GO AND TRANSFER. There is no server or game on this earth where you will be trully content.

PS: i did the Gala event to offer some fun to our server. Dozens enjoyed it. You didnt. And your last paragraph denotes pathological paranoia as Turbine isnt a goverment organisation and Lotro isnt a political society. And yes i will enjoy doing more and more events, because my friends on WW deserve my effort. You dont deserve it.

Hope i do not see you soon. And congratz you managed to be beat any rant zrinko could have ever thrown at me. I have teh feeling he at least respected me.

Originally Posted by Frepsy

Who cares who is my game character me as a person express an opinion. And again me as a person i think u got big issues with the fact people don't like WW. Which i cant understand its not yours to protect it like little child. We all gave part of our time here but still sun shining outside not inside the pc so relax and move on.

An oppinion stated from anonimity is less then what it can be. I was merely refering to the fact that you sometimes post in PvP thread and nobody actually knows who you are. Thus your oppinion is lowered in impact.

And yes im attached to this server. I am a terrible person for that.

You sure the sun isnt shining in the PC? i thought it was, wait lemme open the basement doors....oh wait i dont live in a basement and ur making asumptions about my personal life :P

Originally Posted by Landrovas

But do not dare call me arrogant.

And start accusing me of stuff when you have done just 1% of what i have done for this server and its players. As opposed to you i play for the fun of others (my kin, the kins were friends with, unkown people that have enjoyed our events). You play for your own egocentrical reasons so you can feel good about yourself and your gear. I have achieved enough in my real life so i dont have to come into a game to boost my ego.
.

I rest my case

Weirdly i would have chosen any other paragraph to rest my case on. I was even coherent in that one. Others are not very flattering and even have the posibility to portrait me as nasty.

But anyhow i wanted to say something witty but that would just mean im arrogant. So no witty conclusions for ya mate.

Originally Posted by VentoPT

I rest my case

I object your honor, manipulation of the Jury!!!!

Originally Posted by VentoPT

Final note on your arrogant tone all accross this thread:
You are NOT the spokesman of WW, you are NOT the spokesman of its players (of your kin if that much). Your ego may be to inflated with your GALA title but remember one thing that title brings you closer to Turbine than to the players.
If you want to be Turbine's spokesman in this server go ahead its up to them.

Literally couldn't have put it better myself. I'm glad it isn't me that is going insane and my OP did make sense. Thank you for taking the time to do this Vent, I wouldn't have had the patience LOL, I just feel it is such a shame that, on a thread about transfers, the 'community' of WW is really making a bad name for itself thanks to one person who assumes that he is the WW community. I agree with you when you said not to use 'us', I'm pretty sure he doesn't voice the opinion of the vast majority of the server.. I just feel it's such a shame that this post has turned from helpful into pages of one person trolling and QQing :/

Thanks again Vento.

Originally Posted by Landrovas

You sure the sun isnt shining in the PC? i thought it was, wait lemme open the basement doors....oh wait i dont live in a basement and ur making asumptions about my personal life :P

Irony? Hypocrisy?

Do you realise that him 'making an assumption' (an assumption which wasn't there) was pretty much counteracted by you, clearly, making the assumption he lives in a basement...

I know they say don't feed the trolls but, really Lando, this is just getting pathetic now, please, leave this post alone - I'm sick of the trolling and flaming, your arguments are clearly blinded by rage and twisted and warped opinions, just let everyone have their own say and stop soiling this post with prepubescent garbage - and yes, that was an assumption -

Cal

Originally Posted by Calead

Irony? Hypocrisy?

Do you realise that him 'making an assumption' (an assumption which wasn't there) was pretty much counteracted by you, clearly, making the assumption he lives in a basement...

I know they say don't feed the trolls but, really Lando, this is just getting pathetic now, please, leave this post alone - I'm sick of the trolling and flaming, your arguments are clearly blinded by rage and twisted and warped opinions, just let everyone have their own say and stop soiling this post with prepubescent garbage - and yes, that was an assumption -

Cal

I was making a joke about me not seeing the sun because i was living in a basement. Wasnt saying that he was living in a basement. Read better mate, it should have been clear.

And if this was a prepubescent rage i would have said something in the line of: "Dunt nid moar nabs and noobs **** %$#@#% leave this server ^%$##%^ bla bla bla" or something like that. And really now, do i sound like a kid to you? If so you make me try and be even more condescending and elevated (but then people will think im even more arrogant).

Except irony and cinical jokes i was civilised. Please do read my post until i have been attacked in a personal way. If people cant stand irony thats not my problem (after a certain uber rage filled with envy i still managed to be partially civilised). Im surrounded by smart enough people in real life so they get irony and jokes, why is it that when i do em on this forum everybody gets personally attacked?.

And Cal the post you made has long lost its meaning in this thread. The off topic portion of it grew bigger. And please read the thread, i didnt even start the off-topic talk. I merely asked at one point what was the actual reason of this topic (long after the fights began). Really have no idea why everybody jumped me since i didnt even start the off-topic fight. I merely fueled it since it was a topic that interested me.

I suggest you ask a mod to close the thread. Usually when posts like the ones before this start appearing its time for that. Not to mention the fact that as a OP you should not tolerate people being insulted in the face in your thread.

Originally Posted by Calead

Literally couldn't have put it better myself. I'm glad it isn't me that is going insane and my OP did make sense. Thank you for taking the time to do this Vent, I wouldn't have had the patience LOL, I just feel it is such a shame that, on a thread about transfers, the 'community' of WW is really making a bad name for itself thanks to one person who assumes that he is the WW community. I agree with you when you said not to use 'us', I'm pretty sure he doesn't voice the opinion of the vast majority of the server.. I just feel it's such a shame that this post has turned from helpful into pages of one person trolling and QQing :/

Thanks again Vento.

Oh please guyz you make me sick. Stop posing in anything but helpfull with your posts in this thread. The OP would have been helpful if an army of people stated they will transfer to Laurelin. But it was a just a kin and they had long filed their transfer request by the time you kindly showed them the dangers of naming. Yes you wanted to make a good deed Calead but again there was no point in bringing the fact WW was dieing into the topic. You say im a hypocrite. But what are you? You have still to tell me why you added that final phrase in your post if not to start a talk about the dieing WW.

And for the record the general oppinion on WW is that the server is NOT dieing. And the general oppinion is that talks and threads about a dieing WW are pathetic and boring. So even if i dont speak for the server my oppinions do match its trend.

When i make a mistake i always admit it. Is it so hard Calead to admit that you WANTED to emphasize the state of WW in your original post?

As for Vento's rage, im sad you actually agreed with it. So much hatred and even envy in it. Was really a personal attack, uncalled for to.

Hi Guys & Girls.

I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty of individual arguments of which I can't really pass any judgement as its really none of my business, and I have bigger fish to fry.

However, I will pass comment on what I have seen.

initial comment by Cal "Thanks for reading the post and I hope that wherever you transfer too, Laurelin or otherwise, you have more fun and enjoy the game much more than Withywindle which, as I understand it, is completely dead now."

Withywindle as a server is NOT Dead or Dying, people have complained about people not being on the server for sometime--the answer to this that they have come up with is 'they' have not stayed on Withywindle to make a difference but have 'bailed' out to lands which they believe to be 'Greener', they have not just upped and left quietly though--they have tried to justify their reasons for leaving for having a dig at the players and gameplay on the server which is a little underhand, and of course they try to spread this contempt etc by getting other people to leave too, and have advertised their personal grievances on global chat.

They have spent their own money in doing this which is fine--after all-- no server for LOTRO is a concentration camp. All are welcome to their own opinions and play the game how they see fit.

The Point I'm really trying to make here is that the people that have dissed Withywindle for being dead have compounded any particular issues by leaving the servers anyway.

New people are coming onto the WW server and I'm glad for that.

I for one, shall remain on Withywindle, whatever is thrown at us either from Sauron and his Minions or indeed the developers.

So if you decide to leave Withywindle or any other server, I say feel free, it's your game but please don't advertise to the World what your personal problems are in trying to justify your move, because it really doesn't matter to the majority of folk that are happy to stay on Withywindle.

Also, Globallff is not necessarily a good way of gauging how many people are on the server.

Due to the 'topics' of conversation and the tittle tattling that has gone on there, I know of many people that refuse to use Globallff because they want to play the game and don't want to hear the humdrum of folks whining and moaning about 'how hard done by they are'.

I know for a fact that in the last Month at least 250 individuals (not member alts) from Brothers In Arms alone (1002/1500 members so any new recruits warmly welcomed), have been online at some point. Not all play 24/7 but not all enable global chat, for the reasons mentioned above.

For your consideration Guys & Girls

Enjoy the game as best you can and please try to be nice towards each other.

See you all in game and enjoy your travels on whatever server you decide for yourself.

Til then--Take Care & Have Fun

Matt

Beer for me!

I guess I am doing things backwards. :P

My Main is on Laurelin but I recently rolled a character on Withy to play when my extensive family is not online. So If anyone sees Catwyn in world on Withy feel free to say hello.

Originally Posted by Landrovas

Cant say much about how stable were those kins (but i know for sure that many didnt like eachother in them) but at one point one of the kins just....transfered (blaming ettens which was gravely disfuntional due to arranged fights and non-cooperation).

Just want to bump in here. I no longer play the game in any form, nor do most of the old kin members and the like, but I do haunt these forums every now and then. We didn't leave because of the Ettens. I don't feel the need to specify why we left, because, frankly, I'd like to let it rest, but I just want to clear up this notion you have; the Ettens, nor any sort of PvP in this game, did not have anything to do with II leaving.

Either way, nice initiative Cal. Best to abide by Laurelin's rules if you do intend on moving there.

Originally Posted by BerenCamlostEU

I no longer play the game in any form

Can I please play on Gwarth?? Haha

Nice to hear from you again, mate - hope you are well

I cant quite remember why II left Withy now, it had nothing to do with ettens though. Just wanted a more active server as far as i remember.

Just Heard II split up on Laurelin as well and most of the old guys stop playing. That sucks, hence why i don't plan on coming back anytime soon.

I never ended up transferring still got Beard on Withy just gradually stopped playing, once again nothing to do with ettens, iv been playing the game on and off since it was released like 5 years ago.. I have a life time subscription so im sure ill be back at some point.

I still come on the forums from time to time to see whats happening, hope Withy is still active or even more so! Hope there's still some of the old regular guys are still playing.. Hows Withy doing? Someone update me on PVP/kinships/People etc.. Is it worth coming back?

- Beard.

- Edit: I probably should have read this thread before making this post. Seems to answer some questions.

lol this thread started from the alt character ''Sacboy'' and ends with the death of withy..

Whatever it is said, this server will always have its own beauty, that's why many of the players that have transfered to other glorious servers are trying to find way to come back by alts, creeps, foroum posts etc..

If we had good times in this server we should stay and support it..

Originally Posted by Xecution

- Edit: I probably should have read this thread before making this post. Seems to answer some questions.

Wouldnt get my answers from this thread really....try the "New players" thread, the raid progress thread, PvP one, "Is this Withywindle", this thread had some anger venting issues. Since there have been literally over 1500 (maybe more much more) new players that have started on Withy (a good portion of them expats from other MMOs, so with experience) i honestly think WW will have a boom of activity just around the launch of RoR when all of those will be aproaching level 75. The only draw back is the agravated server lag (we now have RvR in ettens but it lags like hell for most).