In the Orthanc raids I lead, I've had a champion tank fill the role of the tank no problem (all be it a very good one), this was on Tier 1, on tier 2 our group has had little luck with any type of tank.
Elsewhere I've had PUGed champion tanks for all the level cap content, I can't comment on their level of skill/gear.
Yes, Champs can tank just fine, but you do need decent tank equip (armor, bling, offhand weapon, bow etc.) and separate dedicated tanking LIs, as you will want to have different legacies and relics on your tanking rune and weapon. You also need to retrait deep into the blue line and get used to different rotations.
Champs can tank pretty much anything... Our mini prefers me tanking RoF for example, says I take a lot less healing than a guard... probably due to revelaing mark and our bracing attack inc. healing buff... critted Bolster Courage for over 7k on me a few times...
I've off tanked ToO T1 wings, not sure if I'd manage Saruman phase 5...
The only thing champs lack over guards is crit defence... and a bigger morale pool (really want 5 morale per vit)...
You do need a complete set of tanking gear and jewellery and 2 tanking LIs... I really enjoy it, it's a nice change on occasion to mashing out dps... and as we're a small kin it's handy to have the diversity.
Champs can tank virtually anything T1 ToO.
T2 is a lot harder but "chanks" are used for a number of fights... at least FnF and Shadow have both used them.
Champs are not as sturdy but that's often not a problem.
In my opinion Champs struggle with two things:
1. Single target agro is not easy to hold in glory unless your group is helping you out, a lot. If your group is full of poor dps this won't be an issue. The longer the fight progresses, the easier it gets; Bottom line is if you can handle your group pulling agro a bit at the beginning it's no big deal.
2. Tanking multiple adds without breaking mez's is very difficult. And/Or picking up a certain number of specific mobs while another tank picks up the remaining (Saruman).
Tanking multiple adds without breaking mez's is very difficult.
That kind of depends on whether you pull the adds or whether someone else pulls them. As long as you pull them (body-pull) there is no need to go bananas on AoE Skills, as the non-focussed mobs should stick to you through via glorious exchange of blows (with reprisal; but that pretty much the number 1 must have trait for a glory tank). Blade Wall can easily be controlled not to hit the mezzed mob, as it's only frontal AoE (just turn your back to the mezzed mob and hit the rest in front of you.
Originally Posted by DuneBug
And/Or picking up a certain number of specific mobs while another tank picks up the remaining (Saruman).
I never had any issues in the Saruman fight. I usually get to tank the venom and fire copies and the guard takes storm and frost. I position myself between where the fire and venom clones spawn (I tend to stand a bit closer to the fire clones) and hit raging blades to grab them. If I missed the venom clones, I simply run there and hit Blade Wall to get them. It's not like all clones are balled up when they spawn so the Guard using Challenge shouldn't pick your targets up, when he is collecting the storm and frost copies.
That kind of depends on whether you pull the adds or whether someone else pulls them. As long as you pull them (body-pull) there is no need to go bananas on AoE Skills, as the non-focussed mobs should stick to you through via glorious exchange of blows (with reprisal; but that pretty much the number 1 must have trait for a glory tank). Blade Wall can easily be controlled not to hit the mezzed mob, as it's only frontal AoE (just turn your back to the mezzed mob and hit the rest in front of you.
One of the situations that comes to mind is lightning t2 trash, with the zillions of little cave claws popping up out of the ground. A guard can easily just hit litany + shield taunt or challenge to grab them, but a champ's only option is pretty much raging blades; And if your cc screwed up and a troll is near the group, I don't really see any options. Yeah you can try to round them up with blade wall, but you're going to miss some.
If your point is that there are virtually no situations where there's a mez'd mob near the group, and/or blade wall is always sufficient enough to pick up loose mobs, I call shenanigans on that. Not saying it's impossible, just a lot more difficult.
Originally Posted by Vodomir
I never had any issues in the Saruman fight. I usually get to tank the venom and fire copies and the guard takes storm and frost. I position myself between where the fire and venom clones spawn (I tend to stand a bit closer to the fire clones) and hit raging blades to grab them. If I missed the venom clones, I simply run there and hit Blade Wall to get them. It's not like all clones are balled up when they spawn so the Guard using Challenge shouldn't pick your targets up, when he is collecting the storm and frost copies.
My larger concern is in P5, with twice as many targets. But I assume the same setup would work, as long as rb hits them all. I assume another champ or burglar is probably tanking shadow through dps?
One of the situations that comes to mind is lightning t2 trash, with the zillions of little cave claws popping up out of the ground. A guard can easily just hit litany + shield taunt or challenge to grab them, but a champ's only option is pretty much raging blades; And if your cc screwed up and a troll is near the group, I don't really see any options. Yeah you can try to round them up with blade wall, but you're going to miss some.
If your point is that there are virtually no situations where there's a mez'd mob near the group, and/or blade wall is always sufficient enough to pick up loose mobs, I call shenanigans on that. Not saying it's impossible, just a lot more difficult.
Well, you still have True Heroics for situations like that, and once they are aggroed on you, exchange of blows should make sure you you can move them around to a safer position without losing them to the healers. If True Heroics is already blown, you could still move away from the mezzed mob together with the healers (who will likely have aggro) and then they take care that the mobs stand in front of you ... once moved away you can then use Raging Blades. No one requires the tank to stand still next to a mezzed mob.
Originally Posted by DuneBug
My larger concern is in P5, with twice as many targets. But I assume the same setup would work, as long as rb hits them all. I assume another champ or burglar is probably tanking shadow through dps?
I was actually referring to Phase 5, as in the phases before getting two copies (1 venom and 1 fire) is a joke, grab one with Wild Attak, Blade Wall and challenge the second one from a distance. And yes, the shadow copies are handled by a DPS champ and a burg (we also do that when we go with two guards).
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Originally Posted by DuneBug
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