Thread: Why all the hate on turbine?

I've been noticing that many people seem to dislike Turbine due to how they are handling the RoR expansion. Instead of just saying it's "not an expansion" because there are not any instances on release, actually think about what you need to do first to be able to play those end game instances. First on the list is get to level 85 which should take a little while unless you play 24-7, secondly, on top of that there is mounted combat which should also take a little while to get used to and take some time to gear/trait your horse (or whatever you can do). Third up is your next tier of crafting, which would make those end game raids easier to complete the first time around. Once you have done all these they might have released news on the instance cluster coming that weekend or something like that!

Aside from all that, you all seem to be of the opinion that the expansion is too expensive, saying $70 is way too much. I don't know if they know this, but the legendary edition is optional! And for people who think the standard edition is too much ($40), think about it! Mounted combat which is entirely new to the lotro world and has the potential to be pure awesomeness, is apparently 2-3x the size of Moria (which is the largest region at the moment???) and brings you up another 10 levels with new tiers of crafting. I think I also read about better graphics?

Then there are people who think Turbine is rushing this expansion and just want your money. Think about this, with GW2 due to be released sometime soon-ish (maybe) and SWTOR released not long ago, they need something to keep their players playing, like a new expansion! And 1 year is not really a rush, considering they did it with 2 (I think) other lotro expansions in the past. And besides, Turbine has not screwed up anything huge in their expansions yet, so why do you all seem to lack faith in them? I sure as hell don't.

And I know some of you are disappointed that they are not doing anything with housing, hobbies, etc. But don't think they will never come around to doing it, there is sure room for it!

Please only post helpful comments below, it's annoying reading through them and having to skip all the flame ones >.<

After being on multiple gaming forums, I can only guess that absolute loyalty only exists within the early years of a company.

I feel like throwing up..

Most of the people who don't like Turbine are the PvMPers, who were promised a map with Isen and now it's "not on the road map!" Also because of the current unbalance of the Moors, alot of the creeps are raid babies and zergers, causing the freeps to do the same. I'm not gonna get into exactly how unbalanced it is, nor anything else, but creeps have been promised stuff for 5 years, and finally got a good update (for 2 classes I believe)with U6. And people are mad because the instance cluster for RoR will NOT be a part of the RoR expansion. So, for RoR, you get a shiny horse, a shiny cosmetic, a XP boost, and something for your LI. Mounted combat is for F2P, so there is basically no point in getting RoR.

Because they offer less and less for more and more. Because they remove game features and then sell them back through the store. Because they consistently deliver badly bugged and incomplete content which remains unfixed. Because they use dishonest marketing tactics. Because basically they've turned into an avaricious company with no interest in their long term customers.

It's not that hard to figure out.

I play this game because I like Lord of The Rings. I play it despite the company Turbine have become.

Originally Posted by ''Cris'''

I feel like throwing up..

You too?



For all the reasons Kongas said.

Absolute loyalty can only be gained by a trusty behavior. Trusty behavior will always conflict with economical interests.

The former expansions Mines of Moria, Mirkwood, and Rise of Isengard included new instances.

This time, Turbine decided not to include an 'instance cluster' (and I don't even know what is inside the cluster).

The former instance Mines of Moria included two more classes. For the basic edition already.

This time, you get mounted combat, and a sixth bag, but the latter only if you pay thirty Dollars more.

The most expensive version of Rise of Isengard was fifty Dollars, not seventy.


Usually, companies try to impress their customers by offering special sales, saying that they are providing 'more bang for your buck'; but this? It is actually a step backward, compared to the former company policy.


Greetings, Polymachos

I feel this too, many people are downright negative, i know their are many things wrong with how turbine handles this but still maybe if people all had a more positive attitude turbine might actually read the form other than to close open threads

but on the minus side for turbine:

-no info on instances, and if so spread out(they said it will be included in price and solo instances are avaible on launch)
-no motives explained
-no dev dairies
-more money
-answers like"not on road map" instead of something specific and detailed
-missing out on alot promised(map)
-expecting pay without full idea what you are purchasing(guild wars does this too, but atleas you sort of have the idea of whats coming)
-not enough rewards
-no tp(something that is at no cost to the company, i mean offering 1k tp with mithiril or stem edition vs. nothign for new exp is like kicking long time players in the face)

After reading the 3 helpful comments, I can see where you guys are coming from. I have only been playing since slightly after the release of Mirkwood, and have not noticed as many of the things you guys have. If only the other people would be as mature and helpful as you!

The answer to your question is a question in itself, to Turbine.

Why all the hate for your loyal and longtime players?

Well, they are pushing it, & could handle stuff like this better.

That said, I just wandered around to various gaming sites, and they are ALL filled with whining & complaints. Truly, just change the company names, & the vast outrage could be a cut & paste.

I'm beginning to think it's just a contagious culture within the gaming community. Ok, not beginning - I just can't accept it fully. It's the drama that gets annoying. Yes, all the games are making mistakes here & there - the TS is grating at times - the Middle Earth Mall at its worst. But it's still all the same. All negative, depressing, and often mean.

All games have unsatisfied players, but take a look at Trions, or GW forum and see how more time for the players the community team has. This isn't the normal complaints about 'my feature isn't included', this is a serious backlash against an overpriced expansion which costs nearly as much as upcoming newer MMOs full game, and is looking like offering nothing close to the same amount content. When the press are saying the same, you can be sure it's not just your normal forum banter.

I've just been at Trion's site - and GW. I stopped over at Blizzard & Bioware.

They are all the same. They're all sure their grievances are the most vitally important, and they sound exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Klayvax

Instead of just saying it's "not an expansion" because there are not any instances on release, actually think about what you need to do first to be able to play those end game instances.

The issue is not the time, it's the price.

From June 5 until June 7, the FAQ clearly stated that the instance cluster would be included in the purchase price.
On June 7, they told us that the FAQ was incorrect, that the instance cluster will NOT be included in the purchase price.

This is not just standard gamer "but the players over at so-and-so MMO get this" whining, this is a textbook example of bait-and-switch.

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

I've just been at Trion's site - and GW. I stopped over at Blizzard & Bioware.

They are all the same. They're all sure their grievances are the most vitally important, and they sound exactly the same.

Do you find the biggest fan podcasts and usually supportive press for these games telling their readers/listeners that the expansions are overpriced and bashing the company behind it? It's certainly the first time I've heard CSTM have anything like this to say. Even the usually very supportive Massively have taken a totally different tone this time. Why would that be if this is all just the usual forum noise?

Let me let you in on a little something OP, something a lot of people I guess don't know. The preorders are just for the quest pack. Mounted combat is free. Level 85 is free. The epics are free. Walking around in Rohan is free. I am pretty sure the new crafting tier is free. So basically if you preordered you paid for a quest pack and some other preorder garbage. This is why I am so confused that they are charging again for the IC

CSTM, lotro reporter, doc holiday, Justin, and many more. It's not just forum posters but well known bloggers and podcasters. You said yourself that every site you go to has mass posts with negative responses. I'd say that's a little more than "whining". I think it's a bit indicative that there's something wrong here. Even some of the most pro turbine and positive posters on this site have not responded well to this, myself being one of them.

I've NEVER been negative on this site and have always tried to play my part as peace maker and mr. optimist in the past. This time, I just can't. It's extremely disappointing. If you disagree, so be it. Nothing at all wrong with that. But, you can't deny that there is justifable reason for people to be upset this time. Personally, it feels like a slap in the face. Obviously I won't go into why I feel that way as there are more than enough threads explaining it. Yes, some may be exaggerated but more than enough are completely well argued and justified.

Lets focus on what is known at the moment. Gamers (and MMOers in particular) are a funny lot. I've boiled the mentality down to a few lines

Turbine: "We're raising the cap to 85, adding new epic quests and content, mounted combat"
Player: "Yay, this is gonna be so epic"
Turbine: "Instance cluster will be added at a later time"
Player: "The HELL Turbine!!! I wont pay and I'm leaving"

Do we know why instance clusters are not added at launch? No. There could be tons of other reasons than "Turbine milking the cow". Maybe some of the instances are actually done using mounted combat and they want to see how the mechanic works before opening a - maybe - bugged instance. This is just speculation, but my point stands. We still know very little and yet the some of you are quick off the bat to ONLY focus on the negative before having all the facts.

Also, threats to leave the game are most of the time just empty cans rattling. Some years back I did an experiment on a major MMO site. Every time I came across a player threating (or deciding) to leave the game I took note. All in all I registered 56 players. After 6 months I looked at these 56 player and behold! More than 90% of them was still playing.

I have no scientific proof to back my "study" up. It was just something I did because I found the subject interesting. But I do think it draws an interesting picture.

I'm not trying to come off as a smartsy fartsy, but I'm a firm believer of having all the fact before taking action. Some of the concerns ARE indeed valid. I do think that their pricing model for RoR are a bit steep, I think Turbine should throw in some TPs. I think the basic version is priced fairly, but the Heroic and Legendary are a bit off.

To sum it up. Lets hold back on the criticism before RoR has actually launched. After that we'll all be more geared (pun intended) to give feedback on what works and what does not. Feedback is a very strong concept if used correctly - sadly "crying wolf" comes to mind when I read a lot of RoR concerns. Threatening is never the way to go.

The Lotro community is not unique in this way though. I've seen this mentality on all the other major and minor MMOs. A shame really.

Z.

Originally Posted by Zhira

Do we know why instance clusters are not added at launch? No. There could be tons of other reasons than "Turbine milking the cow". Maybe some of the instances are actually done using mounted combat and they want to see how the mechanic works before opening a - maybe - bugged instance. This is just speculation, but my point stands. We still know very little and yet the some of you are quick off the bat to ONLY focus on the negative before having all the facts.
...
Z.

The point is not about the instances not available straight away with the expansion.
It has been that way with RoI and people still coped, knowing that with buying the RoI-expansion they also will get the instances, whenever these are done.

THIS time, you buy something called expansion, which turns out to be nothing more than a quest pack (keeping in mind that the expansion-like features like mounted combat are free to all anyways, as well as the cap increase).
Just as a reminder: Quest packs usually cost 600-max 1200 TP or so(been a time since I bought my last one).

I actually wouldn't mind if we buy the expansion for 40$, get the additional trait lines for MC, that quest pack AND a later-to-be-finished instance cluster.. Everyone will be busy leveling their chars for some time and familiarizing themselves with mounted combat, so it isnt really a problem to wait a bit til a new instance cluster hits.
BUT: selling an expansion, and then selling the instance cluster an additional time really is a bad move.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel666

BUT: selling an expansion, and then selling the instance cluster an additional time really is a bad move.

I agree very much.

Turbine have not named the price yet though (other than stating that the pricing model will be available at a later time), so my hope is that the decission to sell the cluster is not set in stone yet.

But you point is valid, I think it's a bad move aswel.

Z.

Originally Posted by Klayvax

Why all the hate on turbine?

Some folks despise corporate greed

Originally Posted by Kongas

Because they offer less and less for more and more. Because they remove game features and then sell them back through the store. Because they consistently deliver badly bugged and incomplete content which remains unfixed. Because they use dishonest marketing tactics. Because basically they've turned into an avaricious company with no interest in their long term customers.

It's not that hard to figure out.

I play this game because I like Lord of The Rings. I play it despite the company Turbine have become.

^This.

O well, Sauron is covering all the lands in a second darkness, but what the heck, we still have options right? We'll still have the Shire right? Whahahaha.

Originally Posted by Klayvax

I've been noticing that many people seem to dislike Turbine due to how they are handling the RoR expansion. Instead of just saying it's "not an expansion" because there are not any instances on release, actually think about what you need to do first to be able to play those end game instances. First on the list is get to level 85 which should take a little while unless you play 24-7, secondly, on top of that there is mounted combat which should also take a little while to get used to and take some time to gear/trait your horse (or whatever you can do). Third up is your next tier of crafting, which would make those end game raids easier to complete the first time around. Once you have done all these they might have released news on the instance cluster coming that weekend or something like that!

Aside from all that, you all seem to be of the opinion that the expansion is too expensive, saying $70 is way too much. I don't know if they know this, but the legendary edition is optional! And for people who think the standard edition is too much ($40), think about it! Mounted combat which is entirely new to the lotro world and has the potential to be pure awesomeness, is apparently 2-3x the size of Moria (which is the largest region at the moment???) and brings you up another 10 levels with new tiers of crafting. I think I also read about better graphics?

Then there are people who think Turbine is rushing this expansion and just want your money. Think about this, with GW2 due to be released sometime soon-ish (maybe) and SWTOR released not long ago, they need something to keep their players playing, like a new expansion! And 1 year is not really a rush, considering they did it with 2 (I think) other lotro expansions in the past. And besides, Turbine has not screwed up anything huge in their expansions yet, so why do you all seem to lack faith in them? I sure as hell don't.

And I know some of you are disappointed that they are not doing anything with housing, hobbies, etc. But don't think they will never come around to doing it, there is sure room for it!

Please only post helpful comments below, it's annoying reading through them and having to skip all the flame ones >.<

FYI: Moria is not the latgest area in sq. metres. It does have the most quests of any area though (its not even second or third in sq. metres)

Each person has to decide what ROR is worth to them, for you its $70, for me its $20, so until I can get it for my price I will wait (I bought ROI for $20 last Nov)

No one person will make or break this expansion, only what people do in the aggregate. There is nothing wrong with people trying to convince others to thier point of view

So I cheer both those that say it's good deal at 40 to 70 dollars and those who find it lacking (or even worse than lacking). May the best argument win the day. (But unless you want to pay 50 to 80 next time, you better hope they miss thier projected sales at the current price) Marketing types, gotta love em or hate em but Somebody has to figure out how to get the most money possible out of you pocket.

Originally Posted by Zhira

Do we know why instance clusters are not added at launch? No. There could be tons of other reasons than "Turbine milking the cow". Maybe some of the instances are actually done using mounted combat and they want to see how the mechanic works before opening a - maybe - bugged instance. This is just speculation, but my point stands. We still know very little and yet the some of you are quick off the bat to ONLY focus on the negative before having all the facts.

I think a lot of it is that people are objecting to pay $40-$70 for a quest pack and a few mounted skills, and face having to pay a further undisclosed pile of cash for end-game group instances six-weeks or so down the line.

Personally, I only play solo, I don't have the time, inclination, patience or minimum social skills to group up or join a kinship, so the instances don't effect me.

But I do object to paying ~£30 for a relatively small expansion (To the game as a whole. It could well be the biggest, most densely populated region in the whole game, but compared to all that comes before it, it is relatively small). I don't even pay that for AAA full titles on release. (I shop around, and lo & behold, almost always find the games for as little as half that as either a pre-order or two weeks later).

Now I will pay half-price should the game wander on sale, as it almost certainly will. If & when it does, I may even splash out on the legendary edition - Out of loyalty to the company (Even if at this time, they don't (In my mind) deserve it), but between release & such a time, I'm pretty sure I'll only log in to take part in festivals, and maybe play about with a few of my low-levels... Unless of course I still have quests in the Great River to do on my main character (I'm only a little over the half-way point so far by my reckoning)...

I like this game, Ill play it to its unplayable, people try to ruin my anticipation for RoR, but nevermind them. Yes, turbine disappoints over & over, but I'm still playing this game and planning to do so for aslong as possible.

One of my biggest complaints about Turbine is their approach to marketing as since F2P they are deceptive and misleading. I doubt you are alone in thinking the things in your post reflect the upcoming expansion so I will try and address the points you make which I think are in keeping with what Turbine wants us to think and yet very different from what Turbine are delivering.

Originally Posted by Klayvax

I've been noticing that many people seem to dislike Turbine due to how they are handling the RoR expansion. Instead of just saying it's "not an expansion" because there are not any instances on release, actually think about what you need to do first to be able to play those end game instances.

It isn't an expansion for many reasons. It is a quest pack because there is nothing more in the paid for product they are selling as an 'expansion' other than quests and deeds.

Once you have done all these they might have released news on the instance cluster coming that weekend or something like that!

Very true - only Turbine will be expecting their customers to pay extra for those instances.

Aside from all that, you all seem to be of the opinion that the expansion is too expensive, saying $70 is way too much. I don't know if they know this, but the legendary edition is optional! And for people who think the standard edition is too much ($40), think about it! Mounted combat which is entirely new to the lotro world and has the potential to be pure awesomeness, is apparently 2-3x the size of Moria (which is the largest region at the moment???) and brings you up another 10 levels with new tiers of crafting. I think I also read about better graphics?

Everything you mention is free except for the quests. $40 is too expensive for a quest pack. Take the size of it with a pinch of salt as landscape size does not equate to number of quests or the quality and diversity of quests. On top of the minimum of $40 to buy the expansion, players will be expected to pay extra for the upcoming instances. Whether VIPs will get the instances free (and whether they need to buy the expansion to qualify) remains to be seen.

If the points you made in your post were true I would not be complaining about the price or the contents of the expansion.

Originally Posted by UnlikelyBeing

One of my biggest complaints about Turbine is their approach to marketing as since F2P they are deceptive and misleading. I doubt you are alone in thinking the things in your post reflect the upcoming expansion so I will try and address the points you make which I think are in keeping with what Turbine wants us to think and yet very different from what Turbine are delivering.



It isn't an expansion for many reasons. It is a quest pack because there is nothing more in the paid for product they are selling as an 'expansion' other than quests and deeds.



Very true - only Turbine will be expecting their customers to pay extra for those instances.



Everything you mention is free except for the quests. $40 is too expensive for a quest pack. Take the size of it with a pinch of salt as landscape size does not equate to number of quests or the quality and diversity of quests. On top of the minimum of $40 to buy the expansion, players will be expected to pay extra for the upcoming instances. Whether VIPs will get the instances free (and whether they need to buy the expansion to qualify) remains to be seen.

If the points you made in your post were true I would not be complaining about the price or the contents of the expansion.

I would +rep you for this post, but I must wait 24 hours because I've already given out too much +rep to like-minded individuals like yourself.
If the features listed in the expansion were only available after purchase, I'd not have a problem with the expansion as such, only the pricing, but the fact that you are listing features of an expansion and then giving access to nearly all of them to all regardless of purchase, then I have a problem with it.
I wish they'd go back to how they did MoM, with features only available after purchase. Then some of the people buying it wouldn't feel so aggrieved about it. This would've been the exact same thing for RoI, but Turbine didn't listen to some of the justified complaints then, and I'm not sure they will this time either.

Here's hoping they do, though. I want to see this game fulfil it's potential as much as the rest of you.

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

Well, they are pushing it, & could handle stuff like this better.

That said, I just wandered around to various gaming sites, and they are ALL filled with whining & complaints. Truly, just change the company names, & the vast outrage could be a cut & paste.

I'm beginning to think it's just a contagious culture within the gaming community. Ok, not beginning - I just can't accept it fully. It's the drama that gets annoying. Yes, all the games are making mistakes here & there - the TS is grating at times - the Middle Earth Mall at its worst. But it's still all the same. All negative, depressing, and often mean.

+1 for Ellyllon, couldn't have said it better.

They need to make money to pay for the rising costs of doing business so they can pay the rising costs of programmers and staff and to keep this game from falling to the wayside (like Lego Universe my grandson used to play).

I do not like everything Turbine does, but if we are to play this game they have to make money somehow or all this time spent playing lotro is for not.

Dragonshelm
The Witch King's Adversaries - Vilya

This is the first time I am complaining about this in the forums and I certainly DON'T HATE Turbine, but I think the $70 package is underwhelming, overpriced by $10-$20 (as are the rest of the packages), and this all betrays either desperation or a complete lack awareness about how this pricing scheme would be received.

As a result, I'm worried. Worried about the long-term health of this game and this company. I am worried if they NEED to charge this much for this reason:

Originally Posted by KernDog

They need to make money to pay for the rising costs of doing business so they can pay the rising costs of programmers and staff and to keep this game from falling to the wayside (like Lego Universe my grandson used to play).

And I am worried that if they continue to miscalculate the reaction to their pricing and pay model (yes, in many ways, it's still a paid game) that they will turn off too much of the player base and go into a company deathspiral that may mean no Mordor.

Generally, Turbine has felt like the kind of company that hasn't wanted to put the bottom line above the community and the game itself, but I am afraid that pressures (WB, finances, etc.) may be driving these miscalculations.

I am still deciding which package to choose, but mainly because I want the XP token NOW (for alts I want to level up for Rohan) and not whether I need any of the other pre-order stuff, which I regard as unessential to gameplay as a lifetime subscriber who can probably buy most of the rest of the stuff I want with free points.

I would not define it as hate as much as I would dismay. The $50 bundle in the last expansion had enough perks to make it compelling to upgrade to for many players including our family. Much the same as the benefits of the upgraded barter wallet, while I felt should be included with VIP,it was worthwhile to upgrade.

This $70 bundle being offered lacks the "I really want that and it's a good deal" feeling. It feels more like "I really need that, but have to fork out $70 to get it". You want to compel your customer to make a purchase because the enhancement is justifiable in it's cost because of additional benefits, not core mechanics. You may choose to upgrade to satellite radio because the sound system in the car is good, the car is comfortable and the add on feature will enhance that. Not because the car comes with a AM Radio and one speaker if you don't.

VIP should be, well, VIP and the Cadillac of plans. You should expect that option to come at a cost but be inclusive of the feature mechanics that the players clamor for. You want players to purchase VIP and spend more? Then give VIP more and turn OFF the features if they leave. VIP should not be something players want once in a while to unlock features and then drop. There must be some reason many players view it as a once in a while necessary evil instead of a major upgrade to their playing,

I have a bad taste in this latest offering. Do I really wish to fork out $210 for the family since they also want the features in that package? Any choice I make will still involve the costs of the extra bag and features, so it's not a case as it was in the past of pay $120 x 3 a year and have it all, then buy those points for fluff/convenience.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

From June 5 until June 7, the FAQ clearly stated that the instance cluster would be included in the purchase price.
On June 7, they told us that the FAQ was incorrect, that the instance cluster will NOT be included in the purchase price.

This is not just standard gamer "but the players over at so-and-so MMO get this" whining, this is a textbook example of bait-and-switch.

Those who were subjected to false advertising or bait and switch should be fully refunded, hmmm wonder what your state's attorney general or the better business bureau would have to say about this hijinks/highway robbery/snake oil sales tactics....

Originally Posted by Zarador

This $70 bundle being offered lacks the "I really want that and it's a good deal" feeling. It feels more like "I really need that, but have to fork out $70 to get it".

I'm not "dismayed" by that. I simply won't buy it, and will pick up a 6th bag for some TP (above and beyond the basic price of $40). There are all sorts of "Collectors Editions" that I take a pass on, including the one for TOR (which went for $150 IIRC).

Others probably will buy the $70 expansion pack for LOTRO, just as people bought the $150 CE for TOR. *shrug* It's not up to me to tell them whether the deal is "worth it" to them. I just know it isn't worth it to me.

In hindsight, I probably wouldn't have purchased the $50 version of RoI either - it mostly just put a bunch of stuff into my inventory on every character that I didn't use as much as I thought I would. Of course, it's hard to get all wound up over $20 or $30 when I routinely spend $50-60 for games that last for a handful of days.

Khafar

Get a refund if not satisfied but I wouldn't want anymore lvl 75 IC's, by the time everyone is lvl 85 and decently geared they should be made available to 85's, vip's shouldn't have to fork out extra coin for them, when they become available, as was the policy in the past....

Originally Posted by Zarador

I would not define it as hate as much as I would dismay. The $50 bundle in the last expansion had enough perks to make it compelling to upgrade to for many players including our family. Much the same as the benefits of the upgraded barter wallet, while I felt should be included with VIP,it was worthwhile to upgrade.

This $70 bundle being offered lacks the "I really want that and it's a good deal" feeling. It feels more like "I really need that, but have to fork out $70 to get it". You want to compel your customer to make a purchase because the enhancement is justifiable in it's cost because of additional benefits, not core mechanics. You may choose to upgrade to satellite radio because the sound system in the car is good, the car is comfortable and the add on feature will enhance that. Not because the car comes with a AM Radio and one speaker if you don't.

VIP should be, well, VIP and the Cadillac of plans. You should expect that option to come at a cost but be inclusive of the feature mechanics that the players clamor for. You want players to purchase VIP and spend more? Then give VIP more and turn OFF the features if they leave. VIP should not be something players want once in a while to unlock features and then drop. There must be some reason many players view it as a once in a while necessary evil instead of a major upgrade to their playing,

I have a bad taste in this latest offering. Do I really wish to fork out $210 for the family since they also want the features in that package? Any choice I make will still involve the costs of the extra bag and features, so it's not a case as it was in the past of pay $120 x 3 a year and have it all, then buy those points for fluff/convenience.

The one thing that I've noticed lately that is really surprising to me is the cost in TP vs. $$. The base expansion for RoI I believe was 4,995 TP (when it was finally available in the store) or $29.99, but for RoR it is listed 4,295 TP or $39.99. For RoI, cash was the best option in nearly all cases, but not so much for RoR. Unless there is something that is included in the "Expansion" from the web store and the "Rohan Expansion Content" from the Lotro Store, I gladly pick it up with earned TP/Lifetime TP and hold onto the cash.

In the end it'll end up saving us a few hundred dollars by not paying cash compared to RoI as the bonuses just aren't enough to make up the price differences for us. I was ready to spend about as much as I did for RoI for our household accounts. No anger and such, just bewilderment that Turbine priced things such that they'll end up getting a whole lot less.

/em scratches head.

Originally Posted by Klayvax

I've been noticing that many people seem to dislike Turbine due to how they are handling the RoR expansion. Instead of just saying it's "not an expansion" because there are not any instances on release, actually think about what you need to do first to be able to play those end game instances. First on the list is get to level 85 which should take a little while unless you play 24-7, secondly, on top of that there is mounted combat which should also take a little while to get used to and take some time to gear/trait your horse (or whatever you can do). Third up is your next tier of crafting, which would make those end game raids easier to complete the first time around. Once you have done all these they might have released news on the instance cluster coming that weekend or something like that!

Aside from all that, you all seem to be of the opinion that the expansion is too expensive, saying $70 is way too much. I don't know if they know this, but the legendary edition is optional! And for people who think the standard edition is too much ($40), think about it! Mounted combat which is entirely new to the lotro world and has the potential to be pure awesomeness, is apparently 2-3x the size of Moria (which is the largest region at the moment???) and brings you up another 10 levels with new tiers of crafting. I think I also read about better graphics?

Then there are people who think Turbine is rushing this expansion and just want your money. Think about this, with GW2 due to be released sometime soon-ish (maybe) and SWTOR released not long ago, they need something to keep their players playing, like a new expansion! And 1 year is not really a rush, considering they did it with 2 (I think) other lotro expansions in the past. And besides, Turbine has not screwed up anything huge in their expansions yet, so why do you all seem to lack faith in them? I sure as hell don't.

And I know some of you are disappointed that they are not doing anything with housing, hobbies, etc. But don't think they will never come around to doing it, there is sure room for it!

Please only post helpful comments below, it's annoying reading through them and having to skip all the flame ones >.<

Honestly, I think you are mistaken. The dislike for Turbine right now is not just due to the instance cluster issue alone, it is in fact due to many and varied issues. Besides the instance cluster, some are unhappy about the cost of the expansion, some are dissatisfied with Turbine's business actions over the last couple of years, etc. Basically, I think RoR has become the "final straw" for many players (for whatever reason(s) they might be), and thus all the negativity here and elsewhere.

Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, though. People who are passionate about LOTRO will react angrily when they feel Turbine has pushed them too far, but as long as they are voicing that anger they are still invested in the game. They are fighting to see Turbine solve the problems they see with the game and this expansion, because they still care. When Turbine has a problem is those who don't voice their displeasure, but instead just walk away.

Anger is always better than Apathy.

Why all the hate on ... ?

This question is flawed from the start!

When people come to these forums and make a comment or share opinion, it is just that - comment and opinion.

Sure, sometimes the comment is strong or the opinion may be without a strong foundation and both are usually pounced upon! On the other hand, polite comment or opinion given that is full off demonstrable fact is also pounced upon.

When we use these forums to give comment or opinion, we open ourselves to others that give opposing comment or opinion. The same can be said for Turbine! In having such an open internet message board (forum(s)), Turbine opens themselves to all reasonable (as defined in T&Cs / rules) comment and opinion.

Now then! Onto 'hate'. When you disagree on a comment made or an opinion given that is made reasonably within the rules of the forum you are reading, no matter how strongly worded the comment or opinion is, that does not mean that the poster has any hate* towards you or any one else - or in this case Turbine.

Yes, the LOTRO forums can get somewhat heated, there are whingers, trolls, fan boys, critics and many other types of forumite but so long as the rules and T&Cs are adhered to then any comment or opinion is valid (including the assertion that 'anyone with a different opinion than mine is a hater') no matter how ridiculous.

It seems pointless to go on - so I'll stop shortly. I just think that an opinion or difference thereof does not automatically imply or infer hatred.

*Like, love, dislike and hate are four words that are often used in a way that bars any form of reason, deviation or openness and often plays into the hands of those that want to change healthy debate into argument into fight into (flame) war.

Originally Posted by UKNightWatch

Why all the hate on ... ?

This question is flawed from the start!

When people come to these forums and make a comment or share opinion, it is just that - comment and opinion.

Sure, sometimes the comment is strong or the opinion may be without a strong foundation and both are usually pounced upon! On the other hand, polite comment or opinion given that is full off demonstrable fact is also pounced upon.

When we use these forums to give comment or opinion, we open ourselves to others that give opposing comment or opinion. The same can be said for Turbine! In having such an open internet message board (forum(s)), Turbine opens themselves to all reasonable (as defined in T&Cs / rules) comment and opinion.

Now then! Onto 'hate'. When you disagree on a comment made or an opinion given that is made reasonably within the rules of the forum you are reading, no matter how strongly worded the comment or opinion is, that does not mean that the poster has any hate* towards you or any one else - or in this case Turbine.

Yes, the LOTRO forums can get somewhat heated, there are whingers, trolls, fan boys, critics and many other types of forumite but so long as the rules and T&Cs are adhered to then any comment or opinion is valid (including the assertion that 'anyone with a different opinion than mine is a hater') no matter how ridiculous.

It seems pointless to go on - so I'll stop shortly. I just think that an opinion or difference thereof does not automatically imply or infer hatred.

*Like, love, dislike and hate are four words that are often used in a way that bars any form of reason, deviation or openness and often plays into the hands of those that want to change healthy debate into argument into fight into (flame) war.

Spot on.
I would +rep this but I have given out too much recently so I must wait 24 hours.
I reserve my Hatred towards dictators and their ilk. (And Rupert Murdoch. He I loathe)

I think value has a lot of different definitions to many people -- a good chunk of people feel that without instances an expansion signficantly drops in terms of value. Others would prefer an extra region or two over instances and mounted combat is a variable atm to which no one can truly assign value since it could either be kinda meh or really groundbreaking.

As for me I did by the Legendary version for 70 dollars -- I've also taken advantage of some of the sales on Turbine points recently - so I've put a large chunk of change (160 dollars) in to this game in the last 2 months or so and on top of that my wife's subscription renews every 3 months though I have a lifetime account.

So the real question -- why do I still believe the game has enough value to justify the expense? My answer is it's kept me thoroughly entertained for over 6 years now. Every expansion I"ve had some issues with -- but at the same time I played the hell out of and created some really fun memorable experiences in every expansion. I viewed the expense as investing some development dollars in to a game I love in hopes that Turbine addresses some of the legit community concerns.

For me the parts of the game I've enjoyed have greatly outweighed the parts I felt like complaining about. I've not agreed with every developmental decision but in the end there's not another MMO I want to log in to and play or even try right now.

As for the negatives -- I agree with a lot of the complaints. The pricing structure worries me a bit in that I"m concerned Turbine is yet again experiencing a cash crisis. That is what they are communicating to me anyway -- that they don't have the money I thought they would have with the free to play hybrid model. So yes in many ways I closed my eyes clicked the price and hoped for the best.

Originally Posted by VoronturEU

Spot on.
I would +rep this but I have given out too much recently so I must wait 24 hours.
I reserve my Hatred towards dictators and their ilk. (And Rupert Murdoch. He I loathe)

Thank you and yes! The 'real' hatred should, as you suggest, be reserved for the things that really deserve it.