Thread: The oldest Elf in Middle-Earth...

Hi, I think I know the answer to this question, but is Cirdan the oldest elf in middle-earth? (at least that is named anyway, I'm not including those who could be hidden away in a mountain somewhere)
Is he the very same Cirdan who dwelt by the shores of Beleriand? Who decided not to see the light of the trees? He who was of the Teleri and never sailed to Valinor?
If I'm wrong then you can please correct me... muchas!

Originally Posted by Geindir

Hi, I think I know the answer to this question, but is Cirdan the oldest elf in middle-earth? (at least that is named anyway, I'm not including those who could be hidden away in a mountain somewhere)
Is he the very same Cirdan who dwelt by the shores of Beleriand? Who decided not to see the light of the trees? He who was of the Teleri and never sailed to Valinor?
If I'm wrong then you can please correct me... muchas!

Yes, it's the same Cirdan. And it was supposedly because he'd lived in Middle-earth so long that he'd grown a beard.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

Yes, it's the same Cirdan. And it was supposedly because he'd lived in Middle-earth so long that he'd grown a beard.

Heh, I always liked to think of him as some kind of dwelf

He is indeed the same Cirdan that settled on the shores of Beleriand. He was one of the Teleri who chose not to sail west to Valinor and became known as the Sindar. He was either among the Teleri stayed behind to search for their lost lord Elwe (aka Elu Thingol) or else was among the Teleri who were persuaded by Osse to remain in Middle-earth. I don't think the text states explicitly which group Cirdan belonged to (and I may be wrong about that), but taking all that we know there is a clear implication he was part of the latter category. In any event, he settled on the shores of Beleriand and became the leader of a group of seafaring elves that remained largely independent of the realms established by Thingol and (later) the Noldor exiles. As I recall, Cirdan initially was established at the Falas, but later withdrew southward to the Isle of Balar when Morgoth's forces sacked Brithombar and Eglarest. When Beleriand was drowned at the end of the First Age, Cirdan led his people eastward and founded the Grey Havens at Mithlond in the Gulf of Lhun.

I do believe that Cirdan is generally considered to be the oldest elf in Middle-earth who is mentioned in LotR. Even Galadriel was born in Valinor after the Noldor crossed the sea, whereas Cirdan was among the Teleri who remained behind rather than cross over. As a technical matter, it is possible that given the slowness of the Teleri migration west there would have been time for Galadriel to be born in Valinor before the Sindar broke off from the Teleri. However, among other things it would be necessary to assume that Cirdan was born very late in the Teleri march, and that just doesn't seem consistent with what we know about Cirdan being lord of the elves of the Falas.

Cirdans other name, Nowe is possibly a hint that he belonged to the generation of Elwe, Lenwe, Olwe etc. Galadriels husband Celeborn was the grandson of Elmo (tickle me), Thingols younger brother, which roughly makes him third generation and may point to Galadriel being of a similar age, unless she went for younger men. I still have high hopes that Lenwe will be found and take the title from Cirdan.

Originally Posted by Geindir

Heh, I always liked to think of him as some kind of dwelf

The lovechild of the forbidden relationship of which neither race speaks, on pain of death. And the real reason for the animosity between Elves and Dwarves.

Originally Posted by Robhob

The lovechild of the forbidden relationship of which neither race speaks, on pain of death. And the real reason for the animosity between Elves and Dwarves.

Ahhhhhh, skeletons in the closet!

Originally Posted by Robhob

The lovechild of the forbidden relationship of which neither race speaks, on pain of death. And the real reason for the animosity between Elves and Dwarves.

I feel slightly sick now :s

And on another note... ELMO?! hehehehehehe, I actually sat laughing at my iPod screen when I read this

Lol, dwelf?

Yeah, Elves can grow a beard, but it's very rare among them. The only two I know of is Mahtan and Círdan. Mahtan is from Noldor and he's the grandfather of Fëanor, and his hair and beard are red. Círdan is a Sinda of Falathrim, and his hair and beard are silver. Both are high in age.

Originally Posted by Geindir

I feel slightly sick now :s

And on another note... ELMO?! hehehehehehe, I actually sat laughing at my iPod screen when I read this

Similarly, I have to stifle giggles whenever narration mentions "Tirion upon Túna" because all I can think of is a city built on a mountain of fish.

For a long time Tolkien would refer to the Noldor as "gnomes." For him, the word "gnome" was derived from a root word meaning "learned." However, he was forced to give up on the idea after finally coming to terms with the fact that everyone else in the world heard "gnomes" and pictured diminutive bearded men with pointy hats.

Originally Posted by Vilnas

For a long time Tolkien would refer to the Noldor as "gnomes." For him, the word "gnome" was derived from a root word meaning "learned." However, he was forced to give up on the idea after finally coming to terms with the fact that everyone else in the world heard "gnomes" and pictured diminutive bearded men with pointy hats.

But then so did elf...

Originally Posted by Morthaur

... may point to Galadriel being of a similar age, unless she went for younger men.

We finally know where Arwen gets it from.

Originally Posted by Micrathene

Similarly, I have to stifle giggles whenever narration mentions "Tirion upon Túna" because all I can think of is a city built on a mountain of fish.

he, heheh, hehehehehehehehe *stuffs knuckle in mouth*
I'm afraid there are a fair few things I laugh at in LOTR, some which seem intentionally funny, others which don't. For example, in the Two Towers where Sam stands up and proceeds to scold Faramir like a naughty tween... Rather comical image. And whenever i read Shelob's name, it always goes through my mind in an Australian accent

I am under the impression that Cirdan is one of the oldest Eldar--that he was numbered among those who first awoke and was not born in the standard sense. Not sure where that info/impression comes from at the moment, but I want to say that I encountered it in HoME somewhere.