Thread: Please Give Me a Straight Answer Turbine

In regards to instances and raids post-RoR release ... will they be free to VIPs? Will they be free to people who pre-ordered RoR? This one thing is preventing myself and no doubt many others from committing to purchase the expansion. Is Turbine dead set on charging additional costs for instances and raids regardless of subscription status and expansion purchases/pre-order? A simple straight-forward no spin answer would be greatly appreciated.

We know from posts by Sapience and Celestrata that these will not be free to those who purchase RoR (pre-order or otherwise). However, they have not yet said whether or not it will be free to VIP, one figures it will be, but no one can be sure until they say.

IF they *aren't* free to VIPs, then Turbine may find out how many people actually *want* to pay for them. It would be the first time Turbine ever put content in the game that I--explicitly--would not pay for.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

This is a straight and as simple as it gets,

1, You purchase the expansion it comes with the landscape quests,bonus items(if pre-order). it does not include the instance cluster.

2, At an undetermined time after release but before the end of the year turbine will release the "content update" than includes an instance cluster this will be free as long as you are VIP.

3, Should at any point in time decide to let you sup lapse, then you will lose the access to the content update, this can be remedied by either A, purchasing the pack from store, or B, resub.

This does not affect permanent VIP's (formerly Lifers)


Edit: this is based on past knowledge of Turbine policy regarding content and account status, of course while always subject to change this is the best we have at this moment in time

ty regards, Elle (rachel)

Being a lifer, long as it is a part of the free VIP access ... I am fine with it to a degree, even though not attaching it to the expansion itself is a pretty harsh move.

How are these not going to be attached to the expansion? It makes the $40 minimum price tag even more of a joke.

This makes me even less likely to buy the expansion now until it's on sale.

What happened to having instances and raids along with expansions Turbine?

I imagine they will be "free" for VIPs. The people that really get a slap in the face are the freemiums who pay money for RoR but then extra for a cluster that should have been included in expansion costs.

I'd wait for official confirmation before commiting to buy, better to be safe than sorry

Originally Posted by nubcat

I imagine they will be "free" for VIPs. The people that really get a slap in the face are the freemiums who pay money for RoR but then extra for a cluster that should have been included in expansion costs.

I'd wait for official confirmation before commiting to buy, better to be safe than sorry

Well not all of us are VIP. Me not anymore. I'd expect more than a quest pack for $40, since the epic quests...new zone...and mounted combat is free for everybody.

Originally Posted by Ellemere

This is a straight and as simple as it gets,

1, You purchase the expansion it comes with the landscape quests,bonus items(if pre-order). it does not include the instance cluster.

2, At an undetermined time after release but before the end of the year turbine will release the "content update" than includes an instance cluster this will be free as long as you are VIP.

3, Should at any point in time decide to let you sup lapse, then you will lose the access to the content update, this can be remedied by either A, purchasing the pack from store, or B, resub.

This does not affect permanent VIP's (formerly Lifers)


Edit: this is based on past knowledge of Turbine policy regarding content and account status, of course while always subject to change this is the best we have at this moment in time

ty regards, Elle (rachel)

I agree completely that's what should happen and most likely what will happen. However, Celestrata's post regarding "pricing . . . at a later time" can be read different ways. If there's one thing anyone should have learned by now, it's never to take what Turbine says at face value. Therefore, I think the OP's question is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances. Nor is he the only one who has been asking it in the forums since Turbine's reversal on just what it was selling with the expansion. A simple Yes or No could clear all this up and we have yet to get a clear response. I can't help but be a bit nervous.

And what else is "subject to change?" This is really reaching the breaking point.

Originally Posted by Stormside

Well not all of us are VIP. Me not anymore. I'd expect more than a quest pack for $40, since the epic quests...new zone...and mounted combat is free for everybody.

Exactly I'm of the opinion that if you pre-purchase the expansion (whether your vip/premium/ftp) you should get an instance cluster with it. If not, then clearly it's an overpriced quest pack.

Originally Posted by whheydt

IF they *aren't* free to VIPs, then Turbine may find out how many people actually *want* to pay for them. It would be the first time Turbine ever put content in the game that I--explicitly--would not pay for.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I'm inclined to agree. I've spent $210 buying legendary packs for all three of my accounts. I have no intention to spend anymore on content until the next expansion. If the instances are not included then so be it, I won't run them.

To me it does not matter if somebody is a lifer, a VIP or a f2p ... if he spent $40 to $70 on an "expansion", he should get A LOT MORE than what is offered at the moment. If the instance cluster were free for all who buy RoR, the price might be a bit more justified.

What does somebody who buys RoR get, that somebody who does not buy RoR does not get? Is that worth $40 to $70?


Yes, I bought the legendary edition (twice!). I like this game, I want to support it ... but one more move like this and Turbine is never going to see a single cent from me again.

As of this moment we know the following(unless I am missing something):
Rohan Base Edition contains:
1. a quest-pack that covers at least twice the space of Moria and the Moria quest-pack costs 1495 TP(~$15)
2. A new Feature(Mounted Combat) with all 3 trait-lines open (as opposed to 1 for those who do not buy RoR, No set prices for them yet)
3. A steed with 62% runspeed and 200 Morale(rough equivalent in store is 1195 Tp or ~$12, but that is per char, this one is for every char ever)
4. Title, Friend of the mark (not necessarily important, but still technically a feature)
5.Rohan skirm soldier appearance(pre order bonus, will be priced at 295 TP, ~$3)
6. lvl 20 cloaks (Pre order bonus, pretty useless unless you have a low lvl char, but the cosmetic appearance may appeal to some)

So we have a quest-pack that dwarfs most other quest-packs size wise(and hopefully quest/content wise, though that remains to be seen), access to all of the mounted combat trait-lines, and several things that are purely cosmetic in nature(steed, cloak, title, and soldier appearance). Obviously that is up to you to determine if that is worth $40 to you or not, I am just trying to lay out what it contains(at this moment). Personally I level so slowly (due to the amount of time I actually spend playing the game and the number of alts I have) that I will just wait for the content to go on sale at some-point and get it then, and in the meantime I will occupy myself with alts, or other games.

Originally Posted by Leonhast

To me it does not matter if somebody is a lifer, a VIP or a f2p ... if he spent $40 to $70 on an "expansion", he should get A LOT MORE than what is offered at the moment. If the instance cluster were free for all who buy RoR, the price might be a bit more justified.

What does somebody who buys RoR get, that somebody who does not buy RoR does not get? Is that worth $40 to $70?


Yes, I bought the legendary edition (twice!). I like this game, I want to support it ... but one more move like this and Turbine is never going to see a single cent from me again.

At this point, I believe if you buy the expansion you get 10 levels and the quest pack. That's it. Everything else in the expansion (mounted combat, the Epic, zone access) is available free to everyone.

And, I agree with your last sentence.

Originally Posted by JBomber

So we have a quest-pack that dwarfs most other quest-packs size wise(and hopefully quest/content wise, though that remains to be seen),

They keep underlining that little marketing blurb, but think about it.
This will be the ONLY region where you can have mounted combat. That means fighting on your horse that is quite a bit faster than you.
A normal region would simply be too small for this.

I expect LOTS of plains and vegetation and chasing around Wargs and Goblins mounted on Wargs, have I mentioned Wargs?

For a while now there have been understandable complaints that there wasn't much benefit to being VIP over Premium. Such complaints were usually followed by suggestions of other stuff VIPs should get for free to make the difference a little wider.

Of course, the other way to widen the gap is to give VIPs the same and Premiums *less*. That's what I believe is happening here. VIPs will get the instances for free as per usual for quarterly updates. Premium expansion purchasers will not. Voila, it's worth being VIP again.

This is how businesses think. It's not the same way players think, on the whole.

Originally Posted by Flatfoot789

They keep underlining that little marketing blurb, but think about it.
This will be the ONLY region where you can have mounted combat. That means fighting on your horse that is quite a bit faster than you.
A normal region would simply be too small for this.

I expect LOTS of plains and vegetation and chasing around Wargs and Goblins mounted on Wargs, have I mentioned Wargs?

And don't forget to mention Wargs too.

Originally Posted by GalateaOrea

At this point, I believe if you buy the expansion you get 10 levels and the quest pack.

Nope. Just the quest pack. EVERYONE gets the 10 new levels to max 85 whether they buy RoR or not...it'll simply be harder to hit that 85 without the expansion.

Dont expect Turbine to answer until monday, they seems to only care about the game during the work hours.
And will take a while till they put on their masks, and reply.

Originally Posted by SalionOfBrothers

And don't forget to mention Wargs too.

Quite right, I should also mention Wargs on PLAINS!

I have the sneaking suspicion this is the main reason for the included graphics update that lets you move through supposedly realistic parting high grass.
They had to spruce up the fricken grass as it´s gona be basically all that we´ll see. LOL

theres a interview/ QA that say instances are part of pre-order single person at launch and normal in fall

Originally Posted by dragerslayer

theres a interview/ QA that say instances are part of pre-order single person at launch and normal in fall

No, there isn't. Please don't repeat misinformation (you've posted this on at least one other thread). The instance cluster has in fact been conformed *not* to be part of the expansion price. They will be part of the normal update cycle. The *assumption* is that this means they will be free to VIPs but that Premiums/F2Ps will have to buy them. But Turbine have not confirmed the pricing yet.

Originally Posted by Galuhad

I'm inclined to agree. I've spent $210 buying legendary packs for all three of my accounts.

THX for killing the game, dude!

Originally Posted by Flatfoot789

They keep underlining that little marketing blurb, but think about it.
This will be the ONLY region where you can have mounted combat. That means fighting on your horse that is quite a bit faster than you.
A normal region would simply be too small for this.

I think this is quite likely to be the case too. There are regions in the game that are not large in scale but dense in terms of quests and gameplay and there are regions which in comparison while larger feel lighter in terms of quests. Turbine may say RoR will be twice the size of Moria, but the real question is whether there will be twice as many quests as Moria.

In addition, Moria had 6 man and 3 man instances, a raid, crafting instances etc. so a lot more variety of content than just quests and repeatables - this doesn't seem to be the case for RoR so any comments about RoR being twice the size of Moria seems misleading...

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

For a while now there have been understandable complaints that there wasn't much benefit to being VIP over Premium. Such complaints were usually followed by suggestions of other stuff VIPs should get for free to make the difference a little wider.

Of course, the other way to widen the gap is to give VIPs the same and Premiums *less*. That's what I believe is happening here. VIPs will get the instances for free as per usual for quarterly updates. Premium expansion purchasers will not. Voila, it's worth being VIP again.

The question I have is that *if* the instance cluster is free to VIPs as part of an update, will it be free to all VIPs or just those who bought the expansion?

I do think it is good if the instances are free to VIPs. What it means in reality is that players can either;

- pay for the instance cluster with TP (paid for or acquired in game)
- pay their VIP subscription

So non-VIPs are no worse off than VIPs when it comes to accessing the new instances. When it comes to the buying the expansion itself, whether VIP or Premium it is not good value for money.

The truth is Turbine give so much away to free players that when it comes to so called expansions the product they are selling cannot be anything more than a glorified quest pack. Even if it did include instances, other quest packs have them so it doesn't make it an expansion. Which brings it back to it being an expansion because of level cap rise... which is free to everyone and so not part of the product they are promoting.


however I think the expansion as currently being sold is not value for money.

Is there *really* a question about whether or not the instance cluster will be free for those who have a VIP subscription, & who have already bought/pre-purchased RoR?

That's crazy. If they do that... I'd be stunned. Even for Turbine, it would be just so far beyond the acceptable.

I guess - wait & see. I think it's telling, however, that people are actually questioning this.

I am ordering the 70 dollar package, it is pricey but as a lifetimer it is fine. Updates are free to VIP and with a pre-order NOT required to attain future linked instances, etc ... these packages are fine, especially if you are VIP. Don't want to pay for future IC, go VIP .. pretty simple. Don't want to drop 70 bucks for an expansion ... pay 40 and live without the fluff.

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

Is there *really* a question about whether or not the instance cluster will be free for those who have a VIP subscription, & who have already bought/pre-purchased RoR?

That's crazy. If they do that... I'd be stunned. Even for Turbine, it would be just so far beyond the acceptable.

I guess - wait & see. I think it's telling, however, that people are actually questioning this.

Remember, last year Turbine sold us an expansion that did not have but one raid and no instances in it at launch, and took forever to let us know there would indeed be instances coming with that purchase at a later date. So this year they are selling an expansion with no instances or raids at all, pushing the bar a little further out. In the end I expect that IC will end up being regular content update stuff, which VIPs will get as part of being VIPs, as usual, but Free and Premiums who bought RoR either with cash or TP will have to shell out more TP for the instances.

That brings to mind the question: What will the next expansion in 2013 bring us?

ok this is a genuine question -- not a troll.

Obviously I haven't followed every press release detail but why is this even a question???

Every update outside of advertised expansions such as RoR and RoI have been free to VIP's. So I have a direct question to the OP for a straight answer.

Has Turbine implied, suggested, indicated or directly stated that they are straying from this policy? This is an often mentioned issue with RoR that VIP's will have to pay for the expansion AND the update later -- what prompted this concern? IF that's true than Turbine is doing something they've never actually done before so I'd expect some citable evidence to back up even the concern of this being the case.

As for Premium accounts I would assume completey that they will have to pay for the RoR (to get the quest packs) and have to pay for the instances -- just like they always have had to since Free to Play went active.

SO -- what am I missing??

Originally Posted by musicman2000

Has Turbine implied, suggested, indicated or directly stated that they are straying from this policy? This is an often mentioned issue with RoR that VIP's will have to pay for the expansion AND the update later -- what prompted this concern?

Some players feel the need to question and clarify everything Turbine reps say simply because taking things at face-value backfires. When players ask for clarification on issues like this and do not get a response, its safest to assume the worst.

IF that's true than Turbine is doing something they've never actually done before so I'd expect some citable evidence to back up even the concern of this being the case.

This is where it gets interesting. Why didn't they clarify that the instance cluster would be free to VIPs since it was part of an update? Well if they had then they would sure be in a pickle now that they have added it into the expansion since it is not part of the VIP subscription anymore. Meanwhile if it wasn't originally intended to be part of the VIP subscription and not part of the expansion either... then that would mean they were intending to charge VIPs for it.

Make sense?

Originally Posted by UnlikelyBeing

Make sense?

ish -- it sounds like folks are just looking for specific guidelines for VIP accounts that are already pretty clearly defined IMO. You pay for expansions -- updates are free. Now how those free updates impact people who haven't purchased expansions really hasn't occurred to me before -- for me personally I wouldn't expect to get the instances for free without buying the expansion. But then again I'm still thinking of expansions in the old school manner -- you buy the next expansion to get the latest content. I'm not sure Free to Play was intended to be a method of getting out of this?

I thought VIP meant -- I subscribe because I want the whole game -- I understand I will pay for expansions. Essentially MMO life as it always was. Premium = I get to pick and choose what content I want and I purchase it in bits and bites to maximize my enjoyment per dollar. It honestly appears to me that people want to make VIP more Premium.

Originally Posted by musicman2000

ok this is a genuine question -- not a troll.

Obviously I haven't followed every press release detail but why is this even a question???

Every update outside of advertised expansions such as RoR and RoI have been free to VIP's. So I have a direct question to the OP for a straight answer.

Has Turbine implied, suggested, indicated or directly stated that they are straying from this policy? This is an often mentioned issue with RoR that VIP's will have to pay for the expansion AND the update later -- what prompted this concern? IF that's true than Turbine is doing something they've never actually done before so I'd expect some citable evidence to back up even the concern of this being the case.

As for Premium accounts I would assume completey that they will have to pay for the RoR (to get the quest packs) and have to pay for the instances -- just like they always have had to since Free to Play went active.

SO -- what am I missing??

Sapience has confirmed here that VIPs will not receive the instance cluster free.

Not exactly -- Sapience responded to someone who was buying it with TP -- in other words acting as a Premium customer even though they are ViP. You can't expect in store purchases to work the same way as traditional purchases of the expansion.

I'll go find the link but they have stated that the instance cluster will be free for all who purchase the expansion. Trying to break things up in to clusters for yourself as a VIP doesn't make any sense to me -- furthermore doing it that way and expecting it to work differently for yourself makes even less sense to me.

edit in-- "Additionally, some players had questions about the instance cluster coming after the launch of RoR. While we are still not ready to talk about the details of the cluster we did want to confirm that we will be releasing a new instance cluster in an update after Rohan launches, and that the cluster will be free to all players who have purchased the Riders of Rohan expansion.
Thanks to everyone for your candid feedback about the pre-purchase offers and the Rohan expansion. At Turbine we have always made it a point to listen closely to our players and adjust when necessary to provide the best possible entertainment experience."

It's very very clear to me anyway if you follow the discussions on this site since Free to Play went live that Turbine does not view a Turbine Point purchase the same as they view a Cash sale purchase. Hence the difference in how it functions. Purchasing the quest pack of Rohan from the turbine store is NOT the same as purchasing the actual expansion -- therefore yes if you choose to purchase it that way you will pay extra for the instances because using TP you did not buy the instances. If you actually *buy* the expansion you buy the quest pack AND the instances. I'm really not sure how this is unclear.

Here's the quote you linked for easy reference:

"That's fine for pre-orders, I will be buying on the 5th of September with TP. As I am a VIP and updates are free to VIP's (as refererences in the t's and c's - will I also recieve the IC for free?"


"Sapience -- No. please see the official discussion thread if you'd like to discuss this and ask questions. it's why we have them. Then we don't have to have a dozen threads, some of which get ignored or missed and lead to misunderstandings and confusion."

Now for a quote from the FAQ:

20. How much will Riders of Rohan be in the LOTRO Store? Can I buy parts of the expansion pack separately?


Yes, you can purchase portions of the expansion separately with your Turbine Points in the LOTRO Store. These items will be released in the LOTRO Store on the same day as the expansion, September 5th. The prices are as follows:

• Rohan Expansion Content: 4295 TP
  • Expansion Content includes the quests in the Rohan region.
• Rohirrim Skinned Soldier on Landscape: 295 TP
• 6th Inventory Bag (Account-wide): 995 TP
• Crystal of Remembrance: 995 TP
• The Outriders Token: 495 TP

Please note the Rohan Expansion content purchased with 4295 is essentially the quest Pack -- so no in no way should anyone expect to get the instances for free later whether they are Premium OR ViP if they purchase it this way. It's method of purchase, not type of account clearly. I guess for me it just makes sense -- I keep digging to try to sort out where the confusion is coming from. What I really don't get still is why VIP accounts are buying from the store with TP what they can get by buying full expansions for dollars -- clearly Turbine is treating the two transactions very differently. The reason ought to be as plain as the nose on my face -- they give us 500 points per month for free. If they allowed us to buy with our free points what we tradtionally have had to buy for cash than there would be no incentive for Life Time VIP's especially to ever buy expansions -- they'd buy them with Turbine points and get content for free.

Yep, as posted above it's now very simple. When the instances became part of the expansion those who bought/buy the expansion get them, and since they are no longer part of a content update, but rather a delayed part of an expansion, VIPs, that have not bought the expansion, don't.

Just realized it was mentioned but it'll be free for anyone who purchased RoR

wrong tab selected for a reply sorry. x.x