Thread: Lifetime memberships

I am a founder with a lifetime membership since 2007 beta. My wife though not a founder also holds a lifetime membership. We often wonder how many free to play and premium accounts out there would jump at a lifetime membership if Turbine ever decided to offer one again. True, Turbine did say that they would never offer it again, but honestly how many times has Turbine changed it's mind in the past? Anyway, let's say that they offer lifetime for $300 with the 500 TP per month thing that VIPs enjoy. How many people would jump on it? Who knows, with enough interest maybe Turbine actually will offer it. Not holding out any hope, I think that would actually loose revenue for them. But if they truely had love for the game, they might.

Originally Posted by gregorik

I am a founder with a lifetime membership since 2007 beta. My wife though not a founder also holds a lifetime membership. We often wonder how many free to play and premium accounts out there would jump at a lifetime membership if Turbine ever decided to offer one again. True, Turbine did say that they would never offer it again, but honestly how many times has Turbine changed it's mind in the past? Anyway, let's say that they offer lifetime for $300 with the 500 TP per month thing that VIPs enjoy. How many people would jump on it? Who knows, with enough interest maybe Turbine actually will offer it. Not holding out any hope, I think that would actually loose revenue for them. But if they truely had love for the game, they might.

It's not a question of whether Turbine would offer it; it's a question of whether WB would offer it. And the answer is not only no, but [expletive deleted] no.

I think I prefer the "month to month" arrangement that Turbine and I currently have. I see no point in a lifetime membership, however, at my age "day to day" would be more appropriate.

Prior to FTP, the game required a subscription to access. All lifetime did was remove the sub.

Now that the sub isn't required to access the servers, lifetime accounts were converted to permanent VIP.

ALL the content prior to Isenguard I had to buy in addition to my lifetime sub.

How much would a deal to make the current VIP status permanent be worth?

500 TP a month for 12 months = 6000 TP a year. Times the lifetime of the game.

If I didn't have my former lifetime sub, I certainly wouldn't consider buying one now. I'd be watching for the double points bonuses and picking up one of the larger packages. They'll give better bang for the buck than a lifetime would, because you get all those points at once, VS over time.

If they offered a new $199.00 USD deal that converted you to a permenant VIP member, it would be a waste IMO, especially for a new player who hasn't unlocked Moria and beyond. They'd still have to unlock that and at 500 TP's per month, they'd have to wait & grind for a fair bit. edited to add: they'd also have to unlock all the SoA content after Lone Lands. I bought the SoA box, my lifetime never paid for that either. ONLY the removal of the sub fee.

IMO, a lifetime now doesn't make sense. Bonus point bundles are the best option. And for swift routes to be permanently unlocked, buy one month sub in addition. It will serve you better than making VIP permanent for a flat fee. At least this late in the game... IMO.

I am also a founding lifer and have for the most part been happy with the arrangment. I dont however see much if any reason or i should say advantage to becomeing a lifer at this point and time, for the most part the bennies of the lifetime account are gone and if you want to pay in advance they do offer yearly VIP. Turbine in my ever so humble opinion made lots of promises to us founders/lifetime account holders thay they have weasled out of. I am waiting with some trepidation for this next instance cluster update after the expansion to see if they take the last remaining bennie from us as well. but hey I do get a cool flowery sig picture!! E

I am a lifetime founder and have two lifetime accounts. It was a great deal and I definitely got the most out of it, on both accounts. I don't know if I would get it now, so many years after the game as come out and they've added f2p. But at the time it was definitely worth it, and it's nice to know that this game is always here for me to come back to.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

If they offered a new $199.00 USD deal that converted you to a permenant VIP member, it would be a waste IMO, especially for a new player who hasn't unlocked Moria and beyond. They'd still have to unlock that and at 500 TP's per month, they'd have to wait & grind for a fair bit. edited to add: they'd also have to unlock all the SoA content after Lone Lands. I bought the SoA box, my lifetime never paid for that either. ONLY the removal of the sub fee.

With the F2P conversion, the SOA box was deemed to be nothing more than an upgrade to premium, not a purchase of any SOA content.

Under the current VIP agreement (lifetime or otherwise), the subscription itself covers access to every zone in the game except for Moria, Mirkwood, Isengard, and (in a few months) Rohan. Every other zone in the game is included with the subscription, as are any upcoming non-expansion content packs.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

With the F2P conversion, the SOA box was deemed to be nothing more than an upgrade to premium, not a purchase of any SOA content.

Under the current VIP agreement (lifetime or otherwise), the subscription itself covers access to every zone in the game except for Moria, Mirkwood, Isengard, and (in a few months) Rohan. Every other zone in the game is included with the subscription, as are any upcoming non-expansion content packs.

Yeah, that little detail would probably get re-defined if they added an option for permenant VIP status now.

Back in the day anyone who bought lifetime, almost certainly had originally paid for some version of the Shadows of Angmar box, (I own the special edition) or a Moria edition (own the special edition there as well) that included it (SoA.)

As for SoA box giving premium... not entirely sure. or at least not for many Euro users anyway. That SoA box pre-dated the merge with the gamecoders(?) gamemasters(?) whatever it was, so those Euro users with a SoA box got nothing.

That box granted a restricted license to use content and required a sub fee to access. So it was a point of confusion for many.

My point for iterating was that, current FTP players don't get entire SoA access, VIP's (active sub) do... do premiums?

Given that no original box was purchased by newer players, that detail would probably have to be redefined. Though it is the games oldest content, perhaps by now, it might be considered like free-ware if a flat-fee VIP offer was cooked up.

At this stage of the game, those asking for a flat-fee for permanent VIP status, don't really understand what it gives. A new player sinking 199.00 USD would have to unlock alot of content. Would that include SoA (after LL) as well? dunno.

Regardless, I'd recommend picking up the best double points bonus you can afford and sub for a month. In the end, that will get you further than asking, at this point, for a flat rate for permanent VIP status (IMO.)

edited to add: just looked it up, premiums DO NOT get SoA in it's entirety. They have the same access as FTP. But they have more character slots, a higher gold cap, and slightly more priority than FTP for log-in.

Originally Posted by gregorik

I am a founder with a lifetime membership since 2007 beta. My wife though not a founder also holds a lifetime membership. We often wonder how many free to play and premium accounts out there would jump at a lifetime membership if Turbine ever decided to offer one again. True, Turbine did say that they would never offer it again, but honestly how many times has Turbine changed it's mind in the past? Anyway, let's say that they offer lifetime for $300 with the 500 TP per month thing that VIPs enjoy. How many people would jump on it? Who knows, with enough interest maybe Turbine actually will offer it. Not holding out any hope, I think that would actually loose revenue for them. But if they truely had love for the game, they might.

I would buy one... and my gf would probably buy it too DX
We always try to win the lifetime memberships in the contests... and we always feel sad when we don't win xD

They were still offering lifetime accounts when I started playing, but at the time I wasn't that into this game. Would I purchase one now if they suddenly offered it? Maybe.

It would depend on many things, the most important being price. That being said, I seem to work pretty well with going VIP for a few months, then sitting at premium. I do this on and off, mostly when I'm tried of grinding out tp. I'm a pretty patient person though and don't need immediate access to everything.

My main account has almost everything unlocked, and has done for the most part for a year or more, so unless it were ~$150 for lifetime, I'd almost certainly decline. All I'm lacking at the moment till Rohan comes out is the new skirmish (And Barrow-Downs Survival, but I've no interest in that one, other than that, I've got everything unlocked other than what you get for a single months VIP).

My second account... Has precious little unlocked, but I hardly play it anymore, whereas in the past, I often gave it a whirl for the fun of it, so again, I wouldn't bother.

... A pity, as I'd love to hand over a pile of cash to Turbine as thanks for the game (Regardless of their current senility regarding the pricing of the expansion), but theres just not enough in it for me to be worth doing...

I think it will come down to who we ask. Would I buy another lifetime membership? Yes. I played 5 years that 60 Months. If I was paying montly Fee for VIP. I would only be paying $5 a month. Next year My cost would be $4.17 and the longer I play the cost will be even lower.

But my Lifetime covers the 500 Turbine Points a month. Total the 5 years that equal 30,000 Turbine points for the cost of $300.00. If lotro started out f2p it a good deal.

I don't ever see it happening because F2P is the new lifetime account.

Yea i returned when game went F2P and i spent £40 on points and bought all the quest packs and i already had expantions... basicaly i own all the games content now and thats basically lifetime, i have all content when i want it without having to sub to do any quest zone or expansion so i think if people wanted lifetime they would spend e.g. $300 just on points and buy everything...

ps its a lot cheaper to buy ALL content on store them it would be to go lifetime, if you add up the points its far cheaper.

I joined right away at launch in 2007. Played for two years , dropped out, and then returned six months ago. I never saw the attraction to lifetime, so I bought two one year subscriptions. My problem with lifetime anything - warranties, memberships, etc. is that I usually outlive the company, so my lifetime membership means the lifetime of the company, not me.

Originally Posted by Puravidaman

My problem with lifetime anything - warranties, memberships, etc. is that I usually outlive the company, so my lifetime membership means the lifetime of the company, not me.

Isn't that a good thing?

Originally Posted by Puravidaman

My problem with lifetime anything - warranties, memberships, etc. is that I usually outlive the company, so my lifetime membership means the lifetime of the company, not me.

You will have a lot less problems with "lifetime" once you realize that the lifetime refered to in most of these occasions is neither your own lifetime nor that of the company that offers it. In nearly all cases (and with LotRO) it is the lifetime of the service.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

With the F2P conversion, the SOA box was deemed to be nothing more than an upgrade to premium, not a purchase of any SOA content.

Under the current VIP agreement (lifetime or otherwise), the subscription itself covers access to every zone in the game except for Moria, Mirkwood, Isengard, and (in a few months) Rohan. Every other zone in the game is included with the subscription, as are any upcoming non-expansion content packs.

Quick addition to your included content list: skirmishes. VIP (subscription and lifetime) includes all the skirmishes.

I reckon you have to wonder if a lifetime membership would at this point be more beneficial than paying a monthly subscription for the remaining time the game has left.

When we were offered a lifetime membership back in 2007, I willingly accepted and after having played the game for 5 years (since beta), the amount of money I paid for the lifetime membership paid itself in the first 2 years. So technically I am playing for free on a VIP account.

So should Turbine offer something like a lifetime membership again the main thing you have to wonder is if the game will be around long enough to outlast the money you paid for lifetime membership and whether or not you still see yourself playing this game after that time. Then its beneficial.

Discussing the fact that you have buy the expansions is irrelevant, as everyone has to pay for the expansions. You can't expect to sit front row for a dime

I want a lifetime supply of doritos to go with my lifetime LOTRO membership, that is, if I ever bought a LT membership. I learned the hard way how this stuff works 20 years ago.

A really nice, fancy steakhouse opens up and has outside sales reps selling discount cards jammed with benefits. Free desserts with purchase, 50% off meals, stuff like that. It costs $199 but has a ton of discounts and I figured if I only used half the card I would be way ahead.

Restaurant lasted three months. I got four of the coupons used on my card so I flushed most of that $199 down the toilet. Been very very wary of anything of this ilk since then.

Something like a "lifetime subscription" is always a gamble. Back in March 2007, I'd been in the beta for the game, knew I liked it, knew that I tend to play MMOs I like for quite long periods, had enough disposable income that U$199 wasn't half a month's rent or food money, and took the gamble.

Five years later I'm glad I did it then. I haven't played all the time for those five years, but the game's been here and I've been able to log in any time I chose to do so. And even with taking time out, I've still been playing for free in terms of subscription fees for quite some time now. When F2P came along I never had to worry about whether one of my characters could go and quest in any zone (as long as I paid for the expansions). I get my 500TP a month and have the option to buy more if I wish. I have all the VIP perqs automatically on any character I create.

Would I do it today? I'm not so sure. Five years is quite a long lifespan for an MMO. Will LOTRO still be here in another 5 years? No one can say, but I'd guess it's not as good a bet as it was in 2007. Would the conveniences of never having to worry about what access I have and whether I've remembered to renew the sub be worth it?

Perhaps if they offered lifetimes again for U$199, I might go for it. However, IIRC, the last time they offered them it was for U$299 and these days they'd likely have to calculate on a higher price to make it financially viable for them. At considerably higher prices, I rather doubt that I would buy one.

In any case, it's all moot because they've said consistently for the last several years that it isn't going to be offered again.

Originally Posted by gregorik

I am a founder with a lifetime membership since 2007 beta. My wife though not a founder also holds a lifetime membership. We often wonder how many free to play and premium accounts out there would jump at a lifetime membership if Turbine ever decided to offer one again. True, Turbine did say that they would never offer it again, but honestly how many times has Turbine changed it's mind in the past? Anyway, let's say that they offer lifetime for $300 with the 500 TP per month thing that VIPs enjoy. How many people would jump on it? Who knows, with enough interest maybe Turbine actually will offer it. Not holding out any hope, I think that would actually loose revenue for them. But if they truely had love for the game, they might.

Probably not many would jump at it. Thee and me with LT has paid for itself at this point and we're probably considered lower than a f2p account by WB/Turbine because we've been cost centres rather than revenue centres for a while now.

But for someone to consider LOTRO lifetime at this point in the game's maturity, would be gambling the game will still be here in three years to make that 300 buck investment pay for itself. I guess -- I dont' know what the current pricing scheme is, right now I THINK I recall it being something like 12 bucks a month after Open Beta.

All right. Thank everyone for your feedback. This was just to satisfy my curiosity. I guess for me as some of you have already said, back in 2007 in LOTROs infancy lifetime was an amazing deal. But now with f2p, just upgrading to VIP for a month at a time might be a better idea.

I may be a little late to the party on this one, but if lifetime subscriptions were ever offered again, both my husband and I would at the least take a good look at what comes with it. I'd probably get it for myself, because it'd be easier for me in the long run.

That said, I would hope that any such offer at LEAST gave me any and all new skirmishes as they became available, as well as the monthly 500 TP, and maybe the next expansion that comes out after RoR (or whichever one we'd be up to by then).

Originally Posted by Myrric

I may be a little late to the party on this one, but if lifetime subscriptions were ever offered again, both my husband and I would at the least take a good look at what comes with it. I'd probably get it for myself, because it'd be easier for me in the long run.

That said, I would hope that any such offer at LEAST gave me any and all new skirmishes as they became available, as well as the monthly 500 TP, and maybe the next expansion that comes out after RoR (or whichever one we'd be up to by then).

You know you can do what i did, just buy a flat out £50 of points ( far cheaper then lifetime sub ) and buy ALL quest packs, ALL skirmishes, and so on and you have basicaly premium/vip I own all the games content as a premium f2p players and the only difference from lifetime is i fdont get 500 poinbts a month and cant enter the ettenmoors to pvp which in this game i dont care about anyway... so if you want a lifetime sub just do that its 1/4 1/5th the price and only 2 disadvantages which are not that bad.

I'm a founding life timer, and i only ever payed for the Expansions, and Base Game SoA.

here is a list of my, Ahem, activated products ^^ (some how the new Pre-order Rohan aint in there yet.)

Game Version History
Extra Character Slot
Shadows of Angmar™ Pre-order
Shadows of Angmar™ Trial
Shadows of Angmar™ Dell Bundle
Mines of Moria™ Standard
Shared Storage
2009 Anniversary Program Reward
Shadows of Angmar™ Promo
Shadows of Angmar™ Standard
Siege of Mirkwood™
Shadows of Angmar™ Pre-order
(EBGames™/GameStop™)
Extra Character Slot
Rise of Isengard™

This is all just from buying either boxed versions in the past, SoA and Moria, and the digital pre-order deals like Mirkwood, Isengard and now Rohan...

All in all the game lotro has costed me, a total of around € 450,00 and that is for 5 years playing, so its basically like buying 1 to 2 games a year...

((ofcourse now and then i bought a few TP's, but thats it))

So 5 years ago, it was a wonderful deal, considering the fact that i had to take a subscription of € 15,00 a month, which would've costed me € 540,00 up until F2P. even after F2P the free Points and just the unlimited access for any new Alt... was still great...

Will it be a great deal now, meh i don't know... i mean even if the game goes on for another 5 years. After F2P a lot of changes have been made, and like many state you are probably best of getting the double points packs and invest in Quest packs to permanently unlock them...

I would think twice before getting a life time account at this state of the game and time it is in..

Still one heck of a game ^^

As a recent arrival to the game, I think the way it is set up now, provided the Company is ultra careful with its revenue stream, guarantees a healthy future.

I might be wrong, but to me a lifetime sub might well be counterproductive, given that the game wasn't originally intended or designed to go the f2p route (Guild Wars proved the viability of that route, but it was a game designed to be viable on that route).

As such, with LOTRO, I think an excellent transition has been done. Given the very uncertain Global economic circumstances (that's putting it mildly), LOTRO might well prove to be one of the very few survivors, in a few years time.

So as long as everybody in the Company is paying attention, and ensuring as wide a spectrum of players as possible are having fun (I'll be honest, there's things in LOTRO I will never participate in - such as the PvP, and that's because I PvP in real PvP games - but as long as there are enough people enjoying those things - including what passes for PvP - then power to them), then things should be ok.

I started off ftp after friends told me about it (even though a PvP addict, I do like good PvE as well, though can't stand 'raiding', other than perhaps an occasional Realm wide type event, such as killing the dragon used to be in DAoC, with 100's turning up for it, and 100's of people needing rezzing, buffing, and healing *grins*), and quickly went VIP (now having enough TP's to get Moria, when I am ready). I'll probably cancel after a bit, when I work out if I am headed for the Continent for an extended period, but will resub when I get back, and start saving the TP's for the next expansion after Moria.

By then GW2 will be out, and I'll be after my PvP fix again, but LOTRO will be the game I play alongside it.

Not saying it is impossible to mess up LOTRO (it sure is possible, seen it happen too much), but the odds of that happening, to me anyway, seem rather remote. It's definitely one of the best games around of its type, and maybe even the very best (if I could have a Gnome Swashie I would be in 7th Heaven).

Originally Posted by gregorik

I am a founder with a lifetime membership since 2007 beta. My wife though not a founder also holds a lifetime membership. We often wonder how many free to play and premium accounts out there would jump at a lifetime membership if Turbine ever decided to offer one again. True, Turbine did say that they would never offer it again, but honestly how many times has Turbine changed it's mind in the past? Anyway, let's say that they offer lifetime for $300 with the 500 TP per month thing that VIPs enjoy. How many people would jump on it? Who knows, with enough interest maybe Turbine actually will offer it. Not holding out any hope, I think that would actually loose revenue for them. But if they truely had love for the game, they might.

Knowing how Turbine treats the game since F2P? I wouldn't have bought the 3 lifetimes I currently have, hindsight is always perfect...

Originally Posted by gregorik

How many people would jump on it?

I would not. Lifetime was a valid option at the start... and its why I played LOTRO. But that was 5 years ago. I would not invest heavily in a game at this point in its life regardless of the game. And with F2P to boot, the TP value isn't that great... especially with the store pricing being so high.

Add in the high prices of the expansion and the fiasco of the instances and the mixed content across versions... I'm not sure if I can justify the expansion, let alone the thought of a lifetime account. (admittedly, this is a somewhat separate issue).

I would purchase a lifetime sub due to the long term prospects (i.e., the TP stipend alone would be worth it across 4-5 years), and the fact it allows me to jump into and out of the game without worrying about how much time of VIP perks I have left.

On the other hand, I'm planning to unsubscribe before my yearly subscription runs out in August. I have all previous expansions (including the most expensive RoI one, with the Path of the Fellowship zone pack), about 5K TP stashed, I'm playing 9 characters that are currently in the 20-30 level range in a roughly even fashion (so I would get enough TP from deeds to purchase about anything I want anyway), I already have most of the extras I would need anyway, I already have 3 other MMOs on lifetime subs, and I'm planning on mostly stopping with LotRO for a few months at least (so I can give D3 and TSW some attention).

Mmm...

The offering of lifetime membership is not a matter of wanting to offer, it has more to do with common business sense.

When the lifetime membership offer was made, LOTRO was suffering from cashflow issues, they were essentially out of money and trying to get the game launched. So they offered the lifetime membership for like $200 to get a strong influx of money to see the game thru.

Now that the game is stable and has a steady clientele, offering a lifetime membership would be a terrible idea for in the long run it would result with a severe shortage of cash to operate and improve the game. As it is now, between the lifetime, free-to-play and premium, the game is hurting for funding, since their only income is from the limited number of VIPs and store sales so many people tend to object to.

There is one thing, I will ask of all of you to consider:

When the company does not pull a profit, even a small one, and at best it can break even it its cost, they will stop offering the service. If you truly like LOTRO and you want the game to go on for along time, and get polished with less bugs, then you must find a way for the company to increase revenue and profits for there to be a corporate willigness to continue working in htis business and make it better; in a way, we need more VIPs to ensure a steady revenue source is large enough to accomplish the profit and funding needed to polish the game.

Sue

Over in that "other game" in a "galaxy far far away" there have been raging arguments since day 1 about Liftetime Memberships and what that means in coded game-speak.

Paraphrased and poorly remembered it means: That the game is about to tank and they are trying to grab as much money as they can before the servers shut down.

Along with that goes : Yes I would and No I wouldn't buy arguments.

I own 2 founder/lifetimes accounts and 1/lifetime account. I also have a few F2P accounts laying about too.

Would I buy another lifetime account? Yes, in all likelyhood.

But even so, if my poor understanding of LOTRO financial history goes, the original Lifetime accounts where offered when the game came out but per some, Turbine was already in dire straights. They offered it again periodically and per some, things looked even worse for them until WB rode in on their white horse.

So, I would guess in hind sight that the Lifetime offer was in fact due to financial distress rather than the expected longevity of the game. But it worked out in my favor and I have never once regretted dropping the dollars on the game then.

Since WB/T though, I've had my ups and downs with the game and have had my share of doubts about what I get from it compared to other activities I could do. But still the positives outweight the negatives and I would convert one of my F2P accounts to VIP.

As for that "other game" I would have bought a lifetime membership to it but they never offered one and now they have a rather unfortunate debacle to work out. I decided I didn't want to fund their "working it out" part so I canceled my sub and I am Very Glad I didn't have the option to buy a lifetime account - what they have atm isn't worth it to me.

Originally Posted by Acasta

...
There is one thing, I will ask of all of you to consider:

When the company does not pull a profit, even a small one, and at best it can break even it its cost, they will stop offering the service. If you truly like LOTRO and you want the game to go on for along time, and get polished with less bugs, then you must find a way for the company to increase revenue and profits for there to be a corporate willigness to continue working in htis business and make it better; in a way, we need more VIPs to ensure a steady revenue source is large enough to accomplish the profit and funding needed to polish the game.

Sue

In that "other game" in a "galaxy far far away" that did not offer lifetime memberships because of <fill in the blank>. My take is that they thought they had a winner (which they did) and were so sure of that they didn't offer a long-term membership option.

Regardless of all the reasons why or why not, when "the debacle" happened they lost 400,000 within 6 months of launch. They still have over 1.2 million subs so I don't think they are hurting that badly but for the sake of number crunching...

IF they had offered life time (the lotro price was @$200 US dollars iirc) and IF those 400,000 had purchased at that price they would have pocketed $80,000,000 US dollars.

Instead they settled for 400,000 * $15/mo * 6 months = $36,000,000 US dollars.

Had all of the 400,000 stayed for 1 full year they would have earned $72,000,000. And IF all stayed they would have earned that amount for every year there after.

For the accountants the No Lifetime Offer was probably a no-brainer but you know RL happened and now they have lost out $72,000,000 per year PLUS the $44,000,000 they might have earned if they had let some folks grab a lifetime offer.

So.. its not as easy or simple as it looks and I'm sure WB/T watch VERY carefully to spot the trends here.

If this was a true f2p game, they wouldn't be accepting monthly subscription payments at all. Any VIP player should be getting everything in the store for free, not double dipping in their wallets.