Thread: Hunters aren't happy...

And its not just me.

The developer response? Continued silence and ignorance.

The only interaction we get with turbine as hunters is when moderators lock our threads.

Positive feedback on the class is .. limited. We have decent dps.. when we stand still, with all of our cooldowns up. However, we have a broken legacy (or two, it might be how a skill interacts with it), a not so useful 'campfire', regen not giving all it should, useless skills added with the previous expansion... I believe we all agree on this.

My own problem with mobility, well, since you're not interested in that, I'll go play my mini or warden for ranged surviving dps... But IMHO mobility = a lot of survivability, even in this TAB TAB TAB world.

Their latest addition (as its NOT a fix) is ripe for abuse. Raiding that new RoR instance? Why bring the hunter scaredy cat who pulls the whole fellow group outside as it is almost dead.

Enough is enough. Fix what's broken, maybe change around or empower a trait or two and hunters won't be leavin'

For some though, it's already too late. Even if there is some fix to some hunter issue in update 8, I will likely be deleting my character currently listed below. I probably won't be satisfied.

Sad face.

Originally Posted by deaddove

And its not just me.

The developer response? Continued silence and ignorance.

The only interaction we get with turbine as hunters is when moderators lock our threads.

Positive feedback on the class is .. limited. We have decent dps.. when we stand still, with all of our cooldowns up. However, we have a broken legacy (or two, it might be how a skill interacts with it), a not so useful 'campfire', regen not giving all it should, useless skills added with the previous expansion... I believe we all agree on this.

My own problem with mobility, well, since you're not interested in that, I'll go play my mini or warden for ranged surviving dps... But IMHO mobility = a lot of survivability, even in this TAB TAB TAB world.

Their latest addition (as its NOT a fix) is ripe for abuse. Raiding that new RoR instance? Why bring the hunter scaredy cat who pulls the whole fellow group outside as it is almost dead.

Enough is enough. Fix what's broken, maybe change around or empower a trait or two and hunters won't be leavin'

For some though, it's already too late. Even if there is some fix to some hunter issue in update 8, I will likely be deleting my character currently listed below. I probably won't be satisfied.

Sad face.

Deaddove, I respect your opinions and you contribute a great deal of comment to the hunter forums. However, I feel that your threads can lack a little 'balance'. For example, the title of this thread should surely be 'Some hunters are not happy'...? You sometimes post as if democratically elected by the hunter community; remember that you are not necessarily representative of all our views.

I understand that you want responses from Turbine but I'm not sure that constantly posting threads of the same nature will achieve your goals. Just my humble thoughts. Keep caring about the class.

I'm happy.
While I agree that we could use a few tweaks here and there, all in all I'm quite happy with my Hunter. Geared and traited right, with the right hands at the controls, Hunters rule dps. We have some weaknesses (having to stand still while using most skills for one) but so does every class.
I respect the fact that you may be unhappy with the current state of things but don't lump all Hunters into your group. As in all MMOs...the vocal minority assumes that it speaks for the silent (happy) majority.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by AdrogoAmros

Deaddove, I respect your opinions and you contribute a great deal of comment to the hunter forums. However, I feel that your threads can lack a little 'balance'. For example, the title of this thread should surely be 'Some hunters are not happy'...? You sometimes post as if democratically elected by the hunter community; remember that you are not necessarily representative of all our views.

I understand that you want responses from Turbine but I'm not sure that constantly posting threads of the same nature will achieve your goals. Just my humble thoughts. Keep caring about the class.

If you are a hunter that is happy with the direction they're apparently taking this class then you're not a very good hunter yet.

Originally Posted by palidor13

I'm happy.
While I agree that we could use a few tweaks here and there, all in all I'm quite happy with my Hunter. Geared and traited right, with the right hands at the controls, Hunters rule dps. We have some weaknesses (having to stand still while using most skills for one) but so does every class.
I respect the fact that you may be unhappy with the current state of things but don't lump all Hunters into your group. As in all MMOs...the vocal minority assumes that it speaks for the silent (happy) majority.
Thanks!

Hunter definitely does still rule the DPS side of things, regardless of what people say. I can consistently put out 2.5k+ DPS in a raid setting if the tank is right, and I know there are plenty of other hunters out there who can easily do 3k+.

However, that doesn't change the fact that it would appear we're getting the 'Champion' treatment, except worse, they're ruining the things we already have and the additions we get are nearly useless.

I'm not happy? Really? I had absolutely no idea. I suppose I should be grateful that you informed me of my unhappiness. That must be why, of my 11 characters, I play the 4 hunters most.

No, wait... (checks personal emot-o-meter) Actually, I'm quite happy with my hunters. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out what makes them so horrifically broken.

If *you* are unhappy, fine. Perhaps you should try one of the other classes to see if they are more your style. If not, then I understand Guild Wars 2 is coming out. That sounds like the perfect game for easy-mode players.

Originally Posted by Kajil

If you are a hunter that is happy with the direction they're apparently taking this class then you're not a very good hunter yet.

Read my post carefully; I haven't commented on the direction in which devs are taking the class. I've just pointed out that some hunters are happy, some are unhappy. I feel that the title of the thread, and it is only an opinion, is misleading. That is all.

Originally Posted by AdrogoAmros

Read my post carefully; I haven't commented on the direction in which devs are taking the class. I've just pointed out that some hunters are happy, some are unhappy. I feel that the title of the thread, and it is only an opinion, is misleading. That is all.

The reasoning to why people say you are not a very good hunter, is because you are not at the end-game level cap yet. I would refrain from posting immediate thoughts about the situation of the hunter at end-game until you are actually in the end-game content and know what is going on. When you get to 75, if you ever go to the Ettenmoors, if you ever get into a lightning Orthanc run, then you will realise that the Hunter is in a bad situation.

Originally Posted by zalladi

The reasoning to why people say you are not a very good hunter, is because you are not at the end-game level cap yet. I would refrain from posting immediate thoughts about the situation of the hunter at end-game until you are actually in the end-game content and know what is going on. When you get to 75, if you ever go to the Ettenmoors, if you ever get into a lightning Orthanc run, then you will realise that the Hunter is in a bad situation.

I do wish people would read my posts carefully. At the risk of repeating myself, I have not commented on the trials and tribulations of the hunter class, all I said was that some hunters are unhappy and some hunters are happy. If you read really carefully, I don't actually comment on whether I am happy with the class or not. However, I am tired of some posters constantly sayings things like "All hunters are unhappy". The point of my original post was not to comment on the dev of the class or the state of endgame content, simply to give my opinion on the accuracy of the thread title. I hope this is clearer.

So basically you said sometimes sky is blue and sometimes it's black. Even though I am far from thrilled by "opinion worshipping cults", I'd rather have that...

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

So basically you said sometimes sky is blue and sometimes it's black. Even though I am far from thrilled by "opinion worshipping cults", I'd rather have that...

Was this aimed at my post? I'm not sure I understand...

I think you are saying you would rather have cults of people following one opinion than many individuals expressing their own opinion. Is this a fair interpretation of your post?

No, I'd rather have people worshipping opinions for being opinions than people playing captain obvious and pretending to discuss with a post that is not exactly inviting a discussion (and calling that opinion XD). Which is not exactly a good choice anyway.

I have yet to find a consistent end game raiding hunter or a soloer in PvP who I can describe as "very content" or "satisfied" with where the hunter is right now. Talk to these people. I've found that the "silent majority" is just the people who never have, don't, and never will understand what an end game raid is, or are in the process of leveling their 6th hunter while the 1st one still has quest gear. This, of course, is the majority of any MMO, the people who simply enjoy gaming, not the nitpicky aspects of raiding like 1 point more of icpr or that extra .5% damage to finish off the boss. Nothing against you of the majority, but you simply don't have perspective, so of course these bugs and problems aren't gonna impact you as much. They're not botching the solo hunter, they're botching aspects of solo PvP and raiding.

And that is also why Turbine can very well afford waiting with SotE-class fixes and even with adressing more serious complaints - majority of their customers is either clueless about them or - which is perfectly understandable - do not care. I mean why should they, this game is tailored for landscape stroll and seems to be working pretty well in that regard.

Heck, we can even make entire raid cater to us and call it teamwork Or pretend niche within niche that is running with great tanks and spotting intricate details (taunt symbols etc) in miliseconds from within clusterwhatever of let's say... Shadow is enough.


Are long-term players getting unhappy? Couldn't care less - they are usually too aware customers, spend either less or in more controlled manner. And they are bored - because who wouldn't be after years with rather one-sided class? Let's contain whining within one section, throw a bone or two once per year spiced with some random PR (not too much, think about costs) and focus on target audience that can provide more income, at worst - just through its sheer scale. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, not sure why would I even bother feeling unhappy knowing I'd be inclined to do exactly the same in certain circumstances.

Oh, well, there ARE devs who are definitely trying to do better (CD Projekt for example?), but I guess they are aberration. Or developing MMO twists companies eventually

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

No, I'd rather have people worshipping opinions for being opinions than people playing captain obvious and pretending to discuss with a post that is not exactly inviting a discussion (and calling that opinion XD). Which is not exactly a good choice anyway.

This is a very strange viewpoint. When taken to its logical conclusion, you'll allow me to post within threads as long as my opinion is exactly that of the original posters? That would be very odd indeed. I have as much right to read and contribute here as anyone else, and I am entitled to post what I think. I am not being rude to anyone, or making personal comments.

For the record, I have every sympathy for those hunters that do not enjoy the class at the moment and are requesting changes. However, I am of the opinion that opening new threads everyday aimed at the devs is simply not very productive. I would like to see people bump the already open threads when stating their entitled requests for proposed changes, grumbles with how things currently are, etc. If the devs were going to answer, particularly the much-maligned ZC, he would have done it in one of the numerous other threads posted here. It is tiresome to read the same arguments by the same people in new threads everyday, particularly when there are so many helpful and interesting threads posted here. It is just my opinion, I do not expect people to care about it, please do not take it personally.

Originally Posted by AdrogoAmros

This is a very strange viewpoint. When taken to its logical conclusion, you'll allow me to post within threads as long as my opinion is exactly that of the original posters? That would be very odd indeed. I have as much right to read and contribute here as anyone else, and I am entitled to post what I think. I am not being rude to anyone, or making personal comments.

Sigh... yeah, that's precisely what I was saying, I am totally revoking your posting privileges... and WTB that bundle of straw you have there...

[boring below, tl:dr: - why discussing about discussion without attributes of discussion is a waste of discussion]

You challenged "hunters aren't happy" with your "some are happy" as if you couldn't notice there was not a single number accompanying OP, so you can neither counter it or dispute it without clarification. And I wouldn't expoect any - it's a general rant-ish compaint containing valid points and emotional background. And yet, you decided to talk about... numbers? semantics? That's why I called your nitpicking an equivalent of "sky is blue" - the next logical step of such "discussion" (and equally valuable as yours) is someone stating that "as long as there are *two* unhappy hunters, author is right". Turns out that color of the sky is changing (or contributing?) nothing and hello, Dead End, nice to see you again.

So here, that's why I'd rather see any opinion instead - or specifically: class-related one. It is funny you are eager to throw something related to "I have rights!" and at the same moment forgetting that stating "I'd rather..." lies in the same territory.


Edit: On the other hand, we made a good job of bumping slightly trolloloing OP

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Sigh... yeah, that's precisely what I was saying, I am totally revoking your posting privileges... and WTB that bundle of straw you have there...

[boring below, tl:dr: - why discussing about discussion without attributes of discussion is a waste of discussion]

You challenged "hunters aren't happy" with your "some are happy" as if you couldn't notice there was not a single number accompanying OP, so you can neither counter it or dispute it without clarification. And I wouldn't expoect any - it's a general rant-ish compaint containing valid points and emotional background. And yet, you decided to talk about... numbers? semantics? That's why I called your nitpicking an equivalent of "sky is blue" - the next logical step of such "discussion" (and equally valuable as yours) is someone stating that "as long as there are *two* unhappy hunters, author is right". Turns out that color of the sky is changing (or contributing?) nothing and hello, Dead End, nice to see you again.

So here, that's why I'd rather see any opinion instead - or specifically: class-related one. It is funny you are eager to throw something related to "I have rights!" and at the same moment forgetting that stating "I'd rather..." lies in the same territory.


Edit: On the other hand, we made a good job of bumping slightly trolloloing OP

You seemed to tactically ignore the meat of my last post... This discussion is probably becoming tedious for you too! If a thread has a contentious title, people may challenge it. My real point is that there are plenty of threads making the same point as this one. Surely that is valid? Anyway, I'm guilty of waylaying another persons thread now, I'm off to have a serious word with myself.

I think it's the preception that instead of working on a class that needs some serious tweaking, Turbine is only concerned about creating fluff (i.e. horse skins, store items, costmetic cloaks).

Originally Posted by palidor13

I'm happy.
While I agree that we could use a few tweaks here and there, all in all I'm quite happy with my Hunter. Geared and traited right, with the right hands at the controls, Hunters rule dps. We have some weaknesses (having to stand still while using most skills for one) but so does every class.
I respect the fact that you may be unhappy with the current state of things but don't lump all Hunters into your group. As in all MMOs...the vocal minority assumes that it speaks for the silent (happy) majority.
Thanks!

So am I. And given that in the group of 7 or 8 people that I play regularly with, at least 3 of us are usually on as hunters... I'd say they are too...

Frankly and honestly, I am quite satisfied with where the hunter is, FOR THE MOST PART, at the moment.

As mentioned before, it is all about who's at the controls and playing it. I have friends who have actually called me 'OP' because of the amount of DPS I can do, as a joke, and hunters are still at the top of the DPS foodchain when in capable hands.

In the Moors, again when played correctly, hunters are one of the best solo classes, lacking only real survivability when overwhelmed due to having no self-healing or defenses where others might escape thanks to their 'oh shi-' skills. But, if you're a hunter in the Moors who can't take a solo warg 1v1 off the pounce and kill him, even multiple times with it running back off rez, then you're either playing the class wrong or just not quite at your full potential.

Yes, I will admit that bringing up a hunter can be frustrating. Being a hunter in general can be frustrating in most situations. But, that doesn't mean that we don't outshine a lot of other classes in many other instances. Hunter is a niche role.

As far as being unhappy goes, back to my previous post, I am unhappy with what appears to be on the horizon for hunters. More lack of dev attention and more utterly useless 'updates'. But, we should all just be happy that these days everything from 'there's lag in Rivendell' to '16th Hall instance is broken' isn't met with 'BETTER NERF HUNTERS' like it used to be.

I'm quite happy with my hunter.

I'm not happy with with people who insist everyone else feels the same way they do. If you don't like it, go play something else.

Originally Posted by Kajil

Frankly and honestly, I am quite satisfied with where the hunter is, FOR THE MOST PART, at the moment.

As mentioned before, it is all about who's at the controls and playing it. I have friends who have actually called me 'OP' because of the amount of DPS I can do, as a joke, and hunters are still at the top of the DPS foodchain when in capable hands.

In the Moors, again when played correctly, hunters are one of the best solo classes, lacking only real survivability when overwhelmed due to having no self-healing or defenses where others might escape thanks to their 'oh shi-' skills. But, if you're a hunter in the Moors who can't take a solo warg 1v1 off the pounce and kill him, even multiple times with it running back off rez, then you're either playing the class wrong or just not quite at your full potential.

Yes, I will admit that bringing up a hunter can be frustrating. Being a hunter in general can be frustrating in most situations. But, that doesn't mean that we don't outshine a lot of other classes in many other instances. Hunter is a niche role.

As far as being unhappy goes, back to my previous post, I am unhappy with what appears to be on the horizon for hunters. More lack of dev attention and more utterly useless 'updates'. But, we should all just be happy that these days everything from 'there's lag in Rivendell' to '16th Hall instance is broken' isn't met with 'BETTER NERF HUNTERS' like it used to be.

You are very confusing.... you state you are happy and that a hunter is fine in capable hands, yet in another thread you post you can do around 24-2500 dps yet have to stay under 2k so you don't pull aggro. Now champs and burgs that I run with routinely run over 2k and yet you are saying we are top dps.... well which is it? If you have to limit when they do not, how are you top dps? This is exactly what many hunters have been fuming about. We get a free 20 oz coffee but only get a 16 oz cup.. nice that we are getting the extra 4 oz, but we can't drink them can we? If you do go to full potential you are dead because you are squishy or eating a huge amount of heals that will just serve to make the healers next on the target list.

Thank you for making my point for me... hunters need some work in several areas to return us to the top of the dps pile.... that is all. Can I put you down for a slightly pouty hunter now or have you come all the way over to the unhappy side?



Tydalmir

Oh let me address another area of PVMP.. really you don't know how hunters can't get off inductions... you must play with some pretty bad wargs if they are not putting a nice little dot on you that interrupts your induction cycles... swift bow is almost impossible to get off with it on. Love to see you come to E, I have a few furry friends who would love to eat..er meet you.

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

And that is also why Turbine can very well afford waiting with SotE-class fixes and even with adressing more serious complaints - majority of their customers is either clueless about them or - which is perfectly understandable - do not care. I mean why should they, this game is tailored for landscape stroll and seems to be working pretty well in that regard.

plus lots of other good stuff..

This is the truth of it, ultimately, probably even in this thread (I only read this far) I know in most others there have been people come in and say stuff like, "oh no hunters are fine, I am happy and I know lots of hunters that are happy too", and "you people are just a bunch of whiners, in fact hunter forums in general are just a big whine I never bother reading them" (after posting in them how great we are). I'm fine with that really, and there is truth to it, most people who talk this way you know aren't working on Orthanc T2Cs past lightening (a few exceptions aside), and they feel pretty neat focusing up and plinking a normal mob in whatever way feels good to them, or using some CC and beating an Emaster/Nemisis from time to time and congratulating themselves on how they are the ones that know how to play their class and all the moaners are just unskilled. I get it, and honestly if you have a good team that is capable enough they can fight around our inadequacies and we can certainly be of benefit as a class, sure no doubt, so why all the grief?

For the main reasons that have been posted over and over, the majority of which wouldn't make hunters OP and are just consideration of basic design and mechanics. Most people flat out agree we have useless skills but will then say but every class has them, that being true, my point is, how in the world does that make it OK? Hunters art was nearly universally thought of as too long an animation in beta, and not very effective, particularly where precision has become so effective, but they left it as is anyway, no wait, they actually took time to nerf it's output in strength first, still leaving us popping a hope token. This is not the actions of a company that actually has a clue, but then it's looking par for the course anyway. Turbine does lots of smart stuff, then puts jewellery from lootboxes bind on aquire, go figure.

I still have fun (when I don't lag), I still have my hunter as a main (though TP on alts is more rewarding) and while there are a multitude of things that should have been done with it that weren't, I don't care anymore either. Only 2 (3 kinda) kins on Arkenstone actively trying ToO T2C anymore, down from about 6 in OD and more than 10 BG/DN. My old kin used to hold within 2 months of Moria release 3 simultaneous Watcher runs. Obviously that kind of play is not where Turbine makes money, the masses are unfortunately for raiding the ones that like to solo. Solo, there is nothing wrong with any class in this game.

Originally Posted by DirkBadgewick

I'm quite happy with my hunter.

I'm not happy with with people who insist everyone else feels the same way they do. If you don't like it, go play something else.

And the people that aren't happy are additionally unhappy about people who are happy, being happy, but unhappy about other peoples unhappiness.

75
Raider
Happy

Just sayin

Originally Posted by Tinluen

You are very confusing.... you state you are happy and that a hunter is fine in capable hands, yet in another thread you post you can do around 24-2500 dps yet have to stay under 2k so you don't pull aggro. Now champs and burgs that I run with routinely run over 2k and yet you are saying we are top dps.... well which is it? If you have to limit when they do not, how are you top dps? This is exactly what many hunters have been fuming about. We get a free 20 oz coffee but only get a 16 oz cup.. nice that we are getting the extra 4 oz, but we can't drink them can we? If you do go to full potential you are dead because you are squishy or eating a huge amount of heals that will just serve to make the healers next on the target list.

Thank you for making my point for me... hunters need some work in several areas to return us to the top of the dps pile.... that is all. Can I put you down for a slightly pouty hunter now or have you come all the way over to the unhappy side?



Tydalmir

Oh let me address another area of PVMP.. really you don't know how hunters can't get off inductions... you must play with some pretty bad wargs if they are not putting a nice little dot on you that interrupts your induction cycles... swift bow is almost impossible to get off with it on. Love to see you come to E, I have a few furry friends who would love to eat..er meet you.

I'm talking in a raid setting on the DPS topic. Hunters hit bigger numbers more consistently than champs or other DPS classes, which is why we pull aggro quicker. It is very difficult to accurately gauge anyone's true DPS, even with combatanalysis running, because you regularly have bursts of higher damage, and then slow down for various reasons. Champs and melee DPS classes hit very high in bursts or even for sustained periods (it's not uncommon for champs to do 3k+ burst damage), but don't maintain the steady heavy burn that a hunter can. Hunters can still easily out DPS most anything else if threat isn't an issue, with RKs following fairly closely.

If you're trying to force me to say something's broken, then the only real issue we have at this point in time is threat management and survivability. Hunter seems to have become the designated glass cannon class, with even RKs having the ability to heal themselves or bubble once they flip attunement while also being able to hit nearly as hard on the other hand.

On the PVMP topic: Playing your hunter wrong if you're having issues killing wargs 1v1. Try going 5b2y and be sure to have resolute aim and barbed hindrance equipped. If the warg isn't dead before you completely exhaust your ability to generate focus then you're probably dead to begin with. And of course, R8+ wargs are a bit hard to deal with, simply on principle because they start to get really tough when they max audacity and get some of their better traiting going, which isn't an issue with hunters being 'broken', just the fact that creeps get some pretty serious bonuses.

If Hunters are Top DPS as being claimed, but have to throttle their DPS to keep from out aggroing the tank, then that is likely WAI. DPS classes have always had the capability of producing more threat than the tank classes. However, the other DPS classes have better aggro reduction/assistance tools and less spiky damage output. So, a Hunter in particular as to throttle damage rotations more in order to not pull threat.

Some would argue that this is part of the skill in playing the class. Maximizing damage, remaining competitive with the other DPS classes, and not pulling threat.

This is not to say that there aren't some serious quality of life issues that plague the class... but seriously, play the game, not to the DPS meter. Comlaining about a relatively minor difference in threat manageability is an insult to the skills and traits that are outright useless as well as trait lines and class characteristics that either don't get used or never quite work as intended.

I was hoping all this would go without saying in any of my previous posts, but apparently not, so I'll make a list of the multiple 'broken' mechanics with the hunter class along with possible fixes or reasonable balances.

Hunter's Art: Take away ridiculous animation time or allow it to be used while moving. Re-evaluate buffs for each stance (seriously, FINESSE bonus in Precision?) or add new buffs on top of the old, such as a percentage of threat reduction (that is SCALED FOR 75) or maybe even something like -% attack duration in S:S, +number Focus increase per 2 seconds for 10 seconds in S:P, and I have no freaking clue in S:E because I've never even used that skill while in Endurance simply because that's how little I've ever used either of them.

Split Shot: Should probably have wider AOE and damage on scale of barbed arrow/quick shot or so. I've also heard complaints about +AOE target legacies not effecting it, but mine have been working just fine, I have +3 and I've hit up to 5 targets at once with it confirmed out of the 6 I possibly can, however if it's broken, obviously fix it.

Strength of the Earth: Needs better scaling or more pulses/longer channeling.

Bow of the Righteous: Need to be scaled for 75.

All threat down legacies: Need to be scaled for 75.

Desperate Flight: (If it MUST be changed) Allow it to be used in the Moors once again, change effect to something along the lines of +15% in-combat run speed/+50% to evade or -5-10% incoming damage (lower run speed couple with high evasion would balance it and not completely discount Captain's Make Haste skill). Out of combat, keep previous effect.

Merciful Shot: Remove animation or allow to be used while moving (would probably be cried about, but it's another of those non-induction skills with stupid animations).

Purge Poison: Remove debilitating animation or reduce animation time.

Intent Concentration: Remove debilitation animation or reduce animation time.

Track skills: Decrease animation time.

Camouflage: Decrease animation time.

Press Onward: Scale for level 75.

Yellow trait: Make it useful in some form or another. Explosive Arrow capstone trait isn't even worth using because the traits you need to use to use it are so bad they actually make you worse.

Multiple trap traits: Remove and replace traits for trap skills that there are already existing items for that do the same thing, except better.

That's really all the stuff I can think of on 'the list', as far as things that are broken for the Hunter class at the moment. Feel free to add.

Originally Posted by Bolt78

75
Raider

With your gear?

Yeeeeaaah... Doubtful. I never put the word "casual" before the word "raider." Not going far on this one.

Originally Posted by Kajil

If you're trying to force me to say something's broken, then the only real issue we have at this point in time is threat management and survivability. Hunter seems to have become the designated glass cannon class, with even RKs having the ability to heal themselves or bubble once they flip attunement while also being able to hit nearly as hard on the other hand.

Well well well! Looks like someone hit the nail on the head!

Originally Posted by Kajil

On the PVMP topic: Playing your hunter wrong if you're having issues killing wargs 1v1. Try going 5b2y and be sure to have resolute aim and barbed hindrance equipped. If the warg isn't dead before you completely exhaust your ability to generate focus then you're probably dead to begin with. And of course, R8+ wargs are a bit hard to deal with, simply on principle because they start to get really tough when they max audacity and get some of their better traiting going, which isn't an issue with hunters being 'broken', just the fact that creeps get some pretty serious bonuses.

.... Aaaand then threw the hammer out the window. Why do people insist on talking about things they don't understand right after they make a perfectly good comment? Kajil, creeps are waaay underpowered compared to freeps right now as a whole. You cannot possibly claim they get "serious bonuses" and thus creeps need a nerf, not hunters need a buff.

To all the happy hunters: You are saying the raiders voice their concerns with overly loud voices, and true, the OP should've put "raiding" or "solo PvP" instead of the word "all," but then you all come right back with broad terms like "most hunters are happy" the "silent majority" and "few problems" while listing exactly 14 problems!! Other classes may have 4 or 5, not double digits lol. Btw, "revamp yellow line" was counted as one, not many, problems. So. Just because you do not care about minor bugs that are game changers for raiders does not mean they should be ignored. Stop talking about biased opinion when you exhibit it most.

Deleted post. Some saying about arguing on the Internet and all that. Can't let these trolls win either :-)

While I agree with the OP, the title should have been "Raiders and PvMPers aren't happy...".

My kin and I try to do ToO T2. When the leader asks hunters to burn a mob quick, I always pull agro. Its a DPS race, but how Im supposed to burn something while not pulling agro? Luckily, the mob gets to me when it has 4k morale, which it should be dead.

Its contradictory. Give hunters some agro management, and make it reliable.

/signed

Originally Posted by Nibenwen

While I agree with the OP, the title should have been "Raiders and PvMPers aren't happy...".

My kin and I try to do ToO T2. When the leader asks hunters to burn a mob quick, I always pull agro. Its a DPS race, but how Im supposed to burn something while not pulling agro? Luckily, the mob gets to me when it has 4k morale, which it should be dead.

Its contradictory. Give hunters some agro management, and make it reliable.

/signed

We need, like other classes have, aggro management that isn't dependent on other classes. It's not like healers can't heal unless we are geared and traited in a certain way or whatever. No other class has to rely on the gear, traiting and competence of another to discharge their basic role. It's ridiculous.

Ran with a guard in a duo skirmish through the Instance finder today and it was a joke. He was a new 75 and there was nothing at all he could do to hold aggro from me. Even Endurance quick-shots pulled once BN was on cooldown. Gave up trying in the end and just blasted stuff dead while he shouted at things. And a fun time was had by all.

as far as hunter specific things go im only slightly unhappy, just give me some way to drop agro (either some skill that does little damage but greatly drops threat or a skill that does average damage but drops threat decently) and some more survivability and i will be very pleased

now slightly off topic, stop complianing about hunters art and split shot, just take them off your skill bars and pretend they never existed

Our DPS is outstanding. There is no doubt about that, and in PvE I do outstanding damage (Not just me, any hunter, Im not tooting my own horn here). With a threat book and a competent tank, I usually do not steal aggro with a premptive beneath notice. It is certainly more fragile than it used to be but I really believe threat is not an issue. If you have issues, you can always chose the threat down legacies.

In the moors, we need something. We need a survival skill, since we currently have none. Every single class in the game has a survival skill, and we have zero. This is unfair, we deserve one. Hunters do pretty good against other classes but we really have nothing save pots and racials, which is unfortunate. I have been killed by a rank 12 warg in under 10 seconds with full audacity/blue skraid/crafted/raid jewelry. They have to address moors hunters.

I'm a hunter and I'm happy.

I am happy with my hunter
with the class, no. its been asking for a change for over a year, any word from the devs? the other classes gets a reply within 2 hours, this class havent gotten one for a year..

Originally Posted by Bond007

.... Aaaand then threw the hammer out the window. Why do people insist on talking about things they don't understand right after they make a perfectly good comment? Kajil, creeps are waaay underpowered compared to freeps right now as a whole. You cannot possibly claim they get "serious bonuses" and thus creeps need a nerf, not hunters need a buff.

To all the happy hunters: You are saying the raiders voice their concerns with overly loud voices, and true, the OP should've put "raiding" or "solo PvP" instead of the word "all," but then you all come right back with broad terms like "most hunters are happy" the "silent majority" and "few problems" while listing exactly 14 problems!! Other classes may have 4 or 5, not double digits lol. Btw, "revamp yellow line" was counted as one, not many, problems. So. Just because you do not care about minor bugs that are game changers for raiders does not mean they should be ignored. Stop talking about biased opinion when you exhibit it most.

All I'll say is GL;HF fighting a R9+ BA with full audacity.

Creeps don't need a nerf, they're fine. Higher ranked creeps are ridiculously powerful when played correctly against most anything, for good reason. Lower ranked creeps are just battle fodder against your average/lower ranked freep, though. I did not say all creeps get serious bonuses all the time. I merely said that high ranked creeps get pretty hefty boosts.

So, contrary to your own points, you're also making pretty hefty generalizations and/or misinterpretations.

Originally Posted by Kajil

All I'll say is GL;HF fighting a R9+ BA with full audacity.

Creeps don't need a nerf, they're fine. Higher ranked creeps are ridiculously powerful when played correctly against most anything, for good reason. Lower ranked creeps are just battle fodder against your average/lower ranked freep, though. I did not say all creeps get serious bonuses all the time. I merely said that high ranked creeps get pretty hefty boosts.

So, contrary to your own points, you're also making pretty hefty generalizations and/or misinterpretations.

He does fine against me. Creeps are NOT fine, they are weak. If they are too powerful you're doing something wrong.

Originally Posted by Witch0King

He does fine against me. Creeps are NOT fine, they are weak. If they are too powerful you're doing something wrong.

That's surprising. You must not stack crit defense like a lot of the ones on my server do. BAs and WLs are trucks, everything else is dead before it realizes what happened.

The creep/freep balance is actually pretty decent at the moment compared to how it's been before. Freeps have the advantage in smaller numbers and creeps have an advantage in larger numbers, the way it should be, considering that freeps are already geared/skilled out when they get to the Moors, while creeps have to earn all their stuff.

But, this thread isn't about the creep/freep balance, this is about hunters.

Originally Posted by Kongas

We need, like other classes have, aggro management that isn't dependent on other classes. It's not like healers can't heal unless we are geared and traited in a certain way or whatever. No other class has to rely on the gear, traiting and competence of another to discharge their basic role. It's ridiculous.

Ran with a guard in a duo skirmish through the Instance finder today and it was a joke. He was a new 75 and there was nothing at all he could do to hold aggro from me. Even Endurance quick-shots pulled once BN was on cooldown. Gave up trying in the end and just blasted stuff dead while he shouted at things. And a fun time was had by all.

This isn't entirely true. Healers can heal, sure, but if the healer doesn't have the right gear and traits and they tank isn't competent enough to make sure aggro stays away from the healer... well, it's basically the same thing. So that's kind of a poor example, honestly.

New 75s in many cases need a lot of hand-holding, especially if they leveled that toon to 75 almost entirely solo. Guards are a perfect example of the problem class needing all the hand-holding if they soloed their way to cap.


As far as the OP is concerned, I see nothing has changed in the time I've been away from this forum. It's tiring to see the same people who seem to think they were elected by the hunter community to speak on behalf of the rest of us.

Could hunters use some tweaks? Sure, but overall:

I am 75. I am a raider. I am happy with my hunter.