Thread: Turbine: Read this if you want to make your customers happy!

/signed

Not buying RoR and will cancel my 2nd account. My 1st account is a lifetime.

OK guys... lots of stuff for me to read. I'm going to try to read every response and take the stuff that seems to be repeated a lot and put it in my main post.

Great work, and keep us on the front page for Turbine to see!

Originally Posted by Shismar

No, fairness is in comparing price asked and value provided. For this expansion it does not match for a large number of customers. It may be that Turbine will pull more profit from selling this expansion at a higher price to less customers. It is very short sighted though, to maximize profit at the cost of driving away potential future customers when your business model is in long time service.

" ... when your business model is in long time service." When it was just Turbine, they clearly pursued and rewarded long time players. Since WB acquisition, it seems they've moved into a new player / short term player model. The move to Steam indicates to me that they're looking for new blood, and lots of it. Under this model they're willing to sacrifice some long term accounts (my guess, mostly life time account holders). I don't think that's a wise strategy for a game, but I don't make the decisions.

I think we'd all agree that these kinds of decisions (pricing / content) aren't made in the dark. It was fully intentioned, they had to know there was going to be balking, and now they get to see whether they gambled correctly or not. On the other hand, there's always an up-swing in enthusiasm for a release once people get into post-NDA beta and start hyping their experience. If the beta goes well Turbine might get a lot more orders. If the beta goes poorly (too many bugs, poor delivery on content etc) that could impact sales negatively, but that's yet to be seen.

Do I agree with the trend toward less content (at this point we don't know what content there is, we haven't seen it), and/or less stable content at a higher price? I don't. Then again, I'm a value shopper, so I'll continue to monitor the reactions both here and in game before I make a decision. What saddens me most is that Turbine used to be a developer I could trust. I no longer do. I read what they write and some part of me says "they could renege on that", so I read with huge grains of salt. Kind of like the attitude when we go to Vegas - the money we take is throw-away, for pure entertainment. If we win some back, great; if we don't, no loss, we had fun in the process. That's how I feel about Lotro. I'm only willing to spend money on it that I'm willing to lose should I get nothing in return. So far I've gotten enough with my $$ and I've been happy. To this point the bare expansion at $40 doesn't feel like enough. The fluff at $70 is definitely not enough. Time will tell.

/signed

I'm going to go ahead and cancel my sub too. I'm not angry or anything though. I'm just sick of paying for boring grinds while not having much fun.

/signed

Requiring the new instances to be purchased separately was the final straw for me.

I usually loathe taking part in these B&M threads, and some of the usual culprits are here posting the same Turbine Hate they always do. Sadly, I still have to sign.

I buy everything I want/need in game and have been happy with how many hours I play versus how many dollars I've spent. I find it excellent use of my entertainment dollar.

Then I see what you get for 70 bucks... even with a sweet income, I cannot justify buying this, not even to support my fav game on principle. Turbine, I take a beating whenever I come to these forums because I so often defend you. Why would you release a 70 dollar quest pack? It makes no sense, explain yourselves, you have absolutely nobody in the player base in your corner on this.

signed

Due to the lack of information given, poor pricing for so little, I will not be purchasing this area until some kind of remedy is announced.

/Signed

/signed

This is the first expansion that I will not be pre-ordering. I don't think ROI was worth the money, and ROR is unfortunately looking like it won't be either. $70 price is just insane.

/signed

I will not pre-order this expansion until we receive more information, or until after it comes out and we have a chance to experience it.

/signed

My spouse and I are not purchasing this expansion. Why would we ever pay $70 each for 10 levels and zero new end-game content, plus no new PvP zone? Greed will not be rewarded.

We are both lifetime account holders and have been playing 4 and 5 years respectively.

Many people I know are not buying, but folks a couple of things to bear in mind



Life is profoundly unfair


&

“When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”

/signed

Still 0 reason to sub and zero reason to pick up this expansion day and date. I'll wait for a super sale or for eastern rohan to come out with helm's deep. I did grab the steam starter pack, good value there for me.

/signed.

Thanks Eloro for taking the time for making this thread.
I was thinking about purchasing the basic edition, but you named really good reasons not to. I am only here for RP and exploration, but I like to instance at times and enjoy the content, though yes, I will not pay anything without any information regarding this 'Quest-Pack'. =P

*peers carefully over to The Elder Scrolls Online*

/signed

I was dumb enough to pre-order RoR right after they posted the FAQ stating that the Instance Cluster would be released at a later date but WOULD NOT cost extra money (the Instance Cluster would be part of the pre-order purchase).

They have since updated the FAQ to say the Instance Cluster would NOT be a part of the RoR pre-order, and now I am left with knowing that I spent $70 on an expansion pack & a 6th inventory bag (plus an additional $70 for wife's account), along with some cosmetic fluff & a steed that I don't need on any of my current toons.

Originally Posted by dannypl

I know you can categorize me as a naysayer but all your quotes and links just prove my point: all we have is vague and many cases misleading information. In your last quote it says "Nearly three times as large as Moria!". On the official website it says "Discover LOTRO's largest landscape yet – nearly twice as large as Moria! Join with the Rohirrim and ride across the sprawling plains of Eastern Rohan."... So which is it, twice or three times? Again this is information that would be nice to know about. As others have mentioned how are they calculating it? does that mean we will have twice as many quests as moria or does it mean the actual area is twice as large with as many quests as moria?

This is a very, very important issue to me. When RoI went on sale, Turbine told us the number of quests we were going to get. This information is conspicuously absent from what has come out about RoR. It's very worrisome.

For the record, I am nowhere near ready to plunk down my money just yet.

/signed from Germany

Instance Cluster inlcude in next Update, then not included, discussion about pricing? Sorry but a Expansion with no IC is NO Expansion. If I need to buy the Instance Cluster after paying ~ 60 Euros for a Expansion. Okay Good, thank you for the great time, but do not hope to see me ever again Turbine.

/signed

I love this game and I'm relatively new. I bought RoI Legendary for both mine and my daughter's account because it was IMO a good deal for us. I own all the QPs through sales, package deals, whatever. I would call myself an astute customer.

RoR as presented was laughable. I only decided to jump on board when I read the FAQ stating that the IC was included. Even then I was purchasing with the knowledge that it wasn't a particularly good deal but whatever. Then the FAQ is changed as the company changed the goalposts, just like they did with their statements regarding bag 6 as a pre-order perk. Now I feel totally ripped off (and if anybody wants to tell me that $70 isn't a lot then go ahead. It's the principle of the matter).

I have heard nothing regarding my inquiries. I'm not even demanding a refund, just some dialogue with an actual person.

So my subscription will be cancelled.

Pre-orders and pre-purchase options will no longer be considered.

I'll use my TP to buy stuff when it goes on sale.

When I run out of TP then there is a choice to be made. That won't be for a while so hopefully they can get their act together before then. If not, then this revenue stream is closed for good.

I want to get to Mordor, but I won't be milked dry and treated like a moron in the process.

Originally Posted by Shismar

That would be classical production industries you are thinking of. But this is virtual goods industry, a very different animal. Just as a primer, development and advertisement are sunk costs and marginal cost of production is 0. The classical price of a virtual good is thereby 0 as well. Not much of a business model, so pricing is determined by maximizing the prize vs. cusomers willingness to pay. This willingness to pay is based on the expectation of value that customers perceive based on past experience and information provided by Turbine.

Content creation costs appear on the balance sheet.

Product definitions and pricing models change.

Expecting, and by some demanding, Turbine maintain past product definitions and pricing models is not a compelling business model.

You can add me to the list, I agree on all points. I have to add most everyone I talk to in game is pretty upset also, I see another mass migration to other games in the works. I've played this game for years now but this is going to be the last straw most likely. $70.00 that I'm sure that will include lots of bugs that will never get fixed like so, so many others. A shame as I really love the Tolkien books, which is why I loved the game

/Signed from Brazil

For me as well, I love LOTRO, and see it going down like that it's a frustration. No offense, I loved the Riders of Rohan Trailer which was made with real life persons, it gave life to the expansion, I really loved it and so does the teaser (even it being a 48 seconds teaser). But instead of making those type of trailers or such stuff like that, only to excite us to buy the pre-purchase, you could do more in the GAME. Because even if those trailers are the most beautiful and exciting ones ever created, you don't need to spend so much out of the game, but inside.. When I think about those high prices of $70, $50 and $40 I think in this trailer. Looks like Turbine has spent so much on that trailer, that needs to the players refill their money. But the things doesn't work like that. You spent so much to advertise, but the CONTENT lack all things. Instead of working on advertising, make every next expansion (this includes RoR) be worth the money we are paying. That's what I think. Too much work on things OUTSIDE the game, and too little work on things INSIDE the game. Also, it needs to have more things seriously, like Turbine Points, making the instance cluster be available for those who purchased the expansion instead of selling it separately (which are the thing that is upsetting the most of the players), and work more on raids and better things. Those are my final words. I just hope that LOTRO can be LOTRO again. Just that, because like this guy in this thread says: WE WANT TO SPEND OUR MONEY IN THE GAME, BUT IN AN HONEST WAY, GETTING WHAT WE DESERVE AND WHAT THE MONEY WE ARE SPENDING IS WORTH IT, AND TO ALL BE SATISFIED WITH IT.

Make it more reasonable to buy and that's all.

/signed from Australia

Even though I have bought all the special / legendary editions of LOTRO and its expansions from launch, even the Mithril and Steam additions (for the TP along with the fluff) and the adventurers pack with Mirkwood - I have not pre-order RoR and I have being spending less and less time in Middle Earth as a result.

How I company can do a complete turnaround in their offer in one day is beyond me. One day we get the instances as part of the xpac (which even at the price still made me hesitant to preorder), and now it is an additional cost after the fact? Sorry, but what else will Turbine do a backflip on - will they then decide that we have to buy warhorses with TP after stating that we won't?

As it stands, I agree with the majority of the posts that $40 is to much to pay for a QP with no instances or skirmishes included - I can still enter and play in the zone for free and not pay a cent, and level up with tasks and skirmishes. Paying $40 to do level 75-85 quests is a bit to rich for my blood...

/signed from Czech republic

I was always defender of the Store because this game just needs money to be sustained and developed.
But Rider of Rohan offer is a fault..

1.) Pricing is too high for questpack however "good & huge" will be because in the same price you can get other "good & huge" expansion or new game.
2.) Particular expansion bundles don't contain appropriate bonuses.
3.) They changed faq that instance cluster will be part of price after few days when sellings were already active.
4.) Turbine presents expansion on colorful pages but evidently doesn't know what exactly is selling at all! Trailer is ok, but teaser with mounted combat is very amateur looking.
5.) Communication and restrictions. Customers are denied from refunding and forum threads with refunding are closed and removed without explanation.

/signed

I dont want Turbine to ruin this game...

I haven't preordered yet. I don't see myself preordering anytime soon if Turbine doesn't start giving out some real information as to what to expect from the 'expansion'. Also, I personally feel that raising the level-cap is an easy way to generate new content, making many things obsolete again. Who will run ROF, Foundry, the 3-mans or even Orthanc once the cap is 85? It most definitely won't be me.

Thanks for the write-up.

Regards,
Fyrexiel

EDIT: Over 7000 views, nice one. Hope Turbine takes note and speaks up soon.

/signed

I am very disappointed in Turbine's offerings and with total disregard for fixing what is still currently broken ingame and pushing further potentially broken content onto us.

/Signed and +1

I have not seen any gameplay from Rohan besides the small mounted combat preview which was a poor show.
Give us some videos about how it will look, who will have to pay for the instance-clusters (free to VIPs?) and an estimate of how much.

/Signed.

$40-$70 Can buy you a brand new game. Its too much for a bunch of quests in a 5 year old game. I've got really sick of how Turbine are trying to milk every last drop of cash out of us these days. Haven't they heard we're in a recession and we don't have pots of cash to waste on what could well be more of the same buggy, monotonous quests to kill another 10 boars and then run back and kill the boss boar and then run back and get 10 boar skins etc.

/signed

I've no issue with Turbine making a healthy profit - the game won't survive otherwise. The value proposition of this Quest Pack is pretty poor to my mind.

1. Everything is based around an entirely new gameplay mechanic - I don't know if I'll like it, but I have to do it. Going on lag and bugs in recent updates (Pit of Iron, ToO) I'm very sceptical that it will be a smooth and enjoyable experience until maybe months after release.
2. Instance Cluster not included after two post-offer days of stating clearly it is. Key decision point for not buying for me, as it's the first expansion to not include a cluster.
3. Bag only in top tier version, also in store.
4. One shot Legendary Scroll per char. Unless this doesn't appear with an in-game route to obtaining (hence finally breaking the convenience over p2w claims) it's not a big bonus - Scrolls of Delving and Empowerment are easy to get in quantity after all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Epic hands one out as a reward somewhere along the line.

Meanwhile I've set my VIP to lapse, and I may buy this expansion later in a sale with accumulated TP. With no instance cluster I'm not going to be missing out on anything aside from maybe some rep grind by waiting it out.

I've taken what I had put aside for expansion and put it on another game in the meantime.

/signed

Couldnt agree more. Sensless greed Turbine!!

Originally Posted by shann81

3.) They changed faq that instance cluster will be part of price after few days when sellings were already active.
5.)Customers are denied from refunding and forum threads with refunding are closed and removed without explanation.

These 2 items, at least for US customers. Turbine commited fraud and if they refuse to refund they can face charges from the government.

Also have your bank or card issuer do a charge back.

Agree with OP. Signed

Originally Posted by SophiaMarquette

/signed,

though I do not blame Turbine.... I blame Warner Bro! The game took a big turn and started going down hill when they became involved

thats exactly right

Originally Posted by GalateaOrea

You have to remember what Fernando Paiz said, don't worry about what people say on the forums because they still buy stuff. In other words, so long as we're making money, we don't care.

I think this is a brave effort and it clearly has hit the right chord with a lot of people, but frankly you're kidding yourselves if you think Turbine gives a hoot how outraged we are over the initial price, the lack of instances, and the communications back-pedaling. Enough people probably bought the expansion for them to meet their numbers projections before the truth about it was revealed. So, Turbine will make their money, think they made a smart business decision, and feel justified in ignoring the forums.

While it might technically be an expansion, the truth is that all that you really get for your money is the Rohan quest pack. Everything else (mounted combat, another 10 levels, the Epic) you get for free. Part of this is because of LOTRO's hybrid business model and part is due to Turbine's determination to make the Epic available to everyone, which is laudable. But they certainly failed to communicate clearly. It appears that Turbine, which used to be fairly good at this, has lost its knack for understanding its player base. And maybe that's because they ignore the forums and only look at their data points and metrics.

In any event, I do hope you are successful in provoking some second thoughts among Turbine's management, which will likely happen if they don't meet their sales projections.

so sad but so true

/signed

.............................. .............................. .....

Again as I've said, they made another video showing things outside the game and barely put some in-game videos inside of it. We only see real life things, but in-game videos and previews (we got only 48 seconds teaser) we don't see, that's what upsets me the most.



After all the comments, after all the criticism, Turbine acts like there's nothing happening and acts like they are blind to not see what is happening.

/signed

All that money we give them each year and they spend it on a horrible real life trailer instead of actual in-game content.

/signed

It's a shame they don't want to respond to our concerns

Originally Posted by Zppy1z

/signed

All that money we give them each year and they spend it on a horrible real life trailer instead of actual in-game content.

Agree. For this money You cant do new pvmp map/skirmish ? Maybe they think - players watch trailer and fast pay 70$ for expansion...

/signed
You know, as a free player who's never bought a pack before I was/am really excited about this pack.

HOWEVER what I find really annoying is the price and the fact that the legendary edition doesn't appear to include the Evendim, Moria, and Lothlórien Quest Packs - as I said, having never bought a pack before I would love to get those quest packs as well as the Rohan stuff - and for the price listed (£51.99 at the time of writing this) it would seem fairer. Perhaps they should have another edition for those who don't want/already have those packs, giving them turbine points equivalent instead. But making me (and surely others) choose between the two seems simply unwise and unfair - who knows; others in similar positions may hoose the cheaper of ones and so Turbine etc will lose out

What also is slowing my decision making is the fact that Mounted Combat will only be available in Rohan expansion areas. I'm currently still working my way through Ered Luin, Shire and Bree lands etc, and it currently seems a long way to Moria and Lothlorien etc, and mounted Combat would probably make a world of a difference (no more constant dissmounting to fight etc :/). Also, what's the point of adding this skill if it's going to be soooooo limited to an area, which almost inevitably is going to be so higher level - Turbine are cutting out more than a bit of the market for this by virtually limiting the mounted combat to higher levels and further areas - I have no problem with them having higher level quests there as higher players need something to look forward to and work on, but to limit the mounted combat to Rohan areas is justn so limiting for everyone else in the game!!!

And I really wish Turbine would read this and the other comment/threads - they could learn a lot and improve the experience of players and consequently, their own reputation, profit and game.

Agreed
/signed