Thread: RoR Preorder vs. Buy With TP - Pros/Cons Discussion

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

Well If you all want. Contact Celestrata. Basilcy what he told me was read Riders of Rohan Frequently Ask Questions. Has all th facts so far.

She. And yes, we've been trying to keep the Riders of Rohan FAQ as up-to-date on things as possible. You all can find it right here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...sked-Questions

Plus, can't forget about the dev tracker either. You can follow all of the community team's posts through that, so you can see what we're talking about, or in which threads we're talking: http://forums.lotro.com/turbine_tracker.php?tracker=dev

LOL sorry my bad. But it always tricky to know who is who. Even if they have male or female names.

You also might want to add the Other urls to Sticky. Like twitter and Facebook and Dev Tracker.

As it pertains to Cash vs TP

Celestra, here's some stuff that isn't in the FAQ but seems to be incredibly pertinent to the 'cash pre-purchase' or 'tp' decision.

FAQ:

Mounted Trait Lines 2/3 ; Per character? Per account? Cost in TP.
Exclusive Legendary Edition Content: Just the session play and skill that's available now? Or will there be more post launch?
Re: Bag #6- Cash purchase currently opens bags 4-5 on characters who weren't downgrade characters. Is this intended?

(It'd value at 995TP for buying bag 6, but if you're getting 4-5 in addition you're also getting a value of 495 TP x 2 (990TP) for a total of 1985TP in purchased storage).

Looking forward to clarifications.

For what it's worth...
The 6th bag is not "free" with the Legendary edition. The additional 995TP (~10USD) is added to the price of the LE (thus the 69.99 instead of 59.99 which would be the next step in the progression.) If all you want is the 6th bag, it might be worth waiting and getting it with TP separately.

I apologize in advance for the wall of incoming text.

What I find most interesting about the RoR expansion pricing is the TP price vs. the Cash Price. As far as I can tell (looking at the expansion bundle prices of each):

Rise of Isengard:
TP - Expansion Contents - 4,995 TP
Cash - Base Edition - $29.99

Riders of Rohan:
TP - Expansion Contents - 4,295 TP
Cash - Base Edition - $39.99

Yes, the contents of each expansion is different, but just looking at the expansion itself the TP price goes down for RoR vs. RoI while the cash price went up. I just have to scratch my head on the reasoning behind this shift. With RoI (only looking at the base expansion) the price differences between TP and Cash made it a no-brainer to purchase the expansion with cash. Throw in the complications around the TP pricing and instances when RoI launched, and I didn't have to think twice on which path to take.

Now it's gone nearly in the opposite direction. With the prices between the two nearly 1:1 (yeah, you get a title and yet another 62%/200 Morale horse with cash, but it's a title and yet another62%/200 Morale Horse). Add in earned TP, VIP/Lifetime TP, taxes for the cash purchase, and/or TP sales looking at the base expansion by itself it's almost a no-brainer to purchase the expansion with TP if you are only looking at the base expansion. Is this really what Turbine intends?

Base Edition Conclusion: Buy with TP when released unless you really, really want that title and/or another horse

So what of the bonuses for other bundles? With RoI, with the the price difference between TP & Cash, everything included in the bundles/bonuses was gravy. How much gravy you wanted and for what price was up to you. The Legendary Edition was an amazing deal for F2P players who have not purchased many quest packs (and it still is probably one of the best deals for LOTRO especially when it goes on sale). The pre-order bonus of the 25% xp stone was a huge bonus, especially if you were leveling more than one <65 character. I know many that the stone was a primary draw to pick it up as a pre-purchase.

Now with RoR, the bonuses aren't just extras/gravy for paying cash vs. using tp, but they now have to become the driving force behind the purchasing decision of using cash. Instead of "I'm going to purchase Riders of Rohan, which bundles looks good to me" it has turned into "Are the offers in the bundle worth spending the cash?". While others have gone through them, I thought I'd just throw in my thoughts as well:

Base Edition:
The Steed & "Friend of the Mark" Title. Not much more to mention that I haven't already:

Heroic Edition:

• Hauberk - Cosmetic item. I do like the look of it, but with so many cosmetics in the game - is this worth the extra cost?
• Quest Packs (Evendim, Moria, & Lothlorien) - Evendim is a good choice, but if you are purchasing RoR with cash and you are looking for quest packs, I REALLY hope that you picked up the Legendary Rise of Isengard as that's quite a bit more bang for the buck. And if you had picked that up, you already have Moria & Lothlorien. I'd think that offering 3-4 of the following quest packs would have been incentive (Angmar, North Downs, Forochel, Enedwaith, Great River).

Legendary Edition:

• Mount Appearance for your war steed - The value of this is somewhat unknown at this moment.
• Armour Set - Cosmetic item. Same with Hauberk above. The entire set is a nice to have, and it's worth is different to each player
• 6th bag - We know what the price will be - 995 TP. At least for me, no matter what decision we make for each of our accounts, we'll most likely be picking up the bag. When comparing the options, I like to think of it as a sunk cost (decision is already made) and compare the price of ~$60 and the bonus is early access.
• Crystal of Remembrance - The mileage for this will be different person to person. For me, consumables are rarely a draw. Yes, it's one per character, but how many characters do you have that will use it? The biggest benefit I see is that it will save the headache of trying to get a pool A on a reforge for one LI in the lifespan of your character.
• Exclusive Rohan Content - Access to the combe quests, the horse session play, and the ability to spend a few days trying to finish the deed to gain a mounted combat skill - per character.

For the Pre-purchase bonuses:

• Stated Cloak - there was no win on this one in the current state outside of cosmetic. Players would cry foul if too strong or too weak. The strongest draw is for newly minted L20/75 characters and/or cosmetic.
• Rohirrim Soldier on Landscape Appearance- For the life of my I do not understand why this is marketed with the "On Landscape" tag. If anything it give the sense that it is limited only to the soldier's appearance when summoned on landscape. /scratch_head Either way, it's a set of 4 skirmish soldier appearances. I'm a skirmish nut so this was nice, but also being a skirmish nut I already have attributes that I've purchased that I'm already partial too.
• The Outrider's Token - My opinion - this is a VERY nice item.....if you don't already have the Rise of Isengard pre-purchase stone. I'm not sure about others, but this was one of the strongest draws for picking up the RoI pre-purchase for me as an altaholic. The problem with this - pretty much all of my alts are either at cap (L75) or below L65 (well below in many cases). There just is little to no benefit in gaining the L65-74 level range. A note - if this included a 25% bonus to quest xp as well - that would be a completely different store.

I've probably gone on long enough (most likely too long ), but if anything I'm puzzled as to why the purchase options are set up the way they are currently. For some, the draw of pre-purchasing and/or bundles is worth it, but when asked by family, friends, kinnies, glff, I'm just going to recommend waiting until the expansion is released and picking up the expansion in the store.

Full disclosure:
We have a handful of accounts in our household. If the bundles value/$ was strong enough I am/was fully prepared to pick up the pre-purchase for each. Given the options, I picked up the Legendary Edition for my personal main account before really thinking through it. The other accounts we'll probably pick up in the store when it launches, when we need it, and/or when it goes on sale. While I don't regret purchasing the Legendary Edition, if I had the same decision to make today I would have chosen differently. At this point I'd also recommend picking the expansion up in the store unless someone REALLY wanted one of the bundles at the current price, one of the exclusive items, and/or they don't have the RoI stone and have a ton of alts.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

LOL sorry my bad. But it always tricky to know who is who. Even if they have male or female names.

Yeah, MMORPG forums are always confusing. You never know which one of these is considered the true meaning of that abbreviation; "Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls" or "Many Maidens Online Role-Playing as Guys"...

Originally Posted by Elaida

Yeah, MMORPG forums are always confusing. You never know which one of these is considered the true meaning of that abbreviation; "Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls" or "Many Maidens Online Role-Playing as Guys"...

But to do it to a Dev. I felt bad. Most of the time I pritty good at Keeping it so I dont go he or she.

Originally Posted by Alex53

Pre-turbine - You don't know what you order in advance, but you pay at the moment of ordering.

Too funny, I just had to +rep this. Certainly, this has been the case the last couple of years.

Originally Posted by Grayferth

In the case of having a lifer-sub with large stockpile of TP; would it be a good call to use my "free" TP to buy the expansion and safe to assume, that cluster will be free of charge for subbers/lifers? Atm I'm not interested in the pre-order goodies.

It's never safe to assume, and especially not this time around.

I have 17 chars on my main server on my main lifetime account. If I wanted all the stuff on all of them, I'd have to buy a lot of Turbine Points to cover the cost. It would be well in excess of 30k tp.

After reading this and many of the other threads I'm seriously questioning if I need to buy RoR at all. I get most of the critical elements of the quest pack for free, there's no instances involved. The most tedious thing I'll need to do is level up and since I haven't done the Great River quests on most of my characters I'm thinking that will be a good start.

When we get to level cap there isn't going to be very much to do anyway so there's no incentive to level up quickly. Fishing? I don't have that hobby on any of my characters. Skirmishes should have the new loot tables, finishing Great River and Isengard Deeds will still carry XP....


Unless something changes drastically I don't think I'll be buying ROR in any fashion, TP or Cash...

Originally Posted by VoronturEU

I have 17 chars on my main server on my main lifetime account. If I wanted all the stuff on all of them, I'd have to buy a lot of Turbine Points to cover the cost. It would be well in excess of 30k tp.

I have to agree with you. It seems like people are more willing to boohoo on something they never seen yet vs Wait and see. For VoronturEU If 12 toons are close to 22k. You would be more like 31k TP.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

I have to agree with you. It seems like people are more willing to boohoo on something they never seen yet vs Wait and see. For VoronturEU If 12 toons are close to 22k. You would be more like 31k TP.

Well, so far it seems that the only people that are in the sweet spot for the current pre purchase bundles are those that have multiple toons AND feel compelled to buy every possible extra in the bundles for every single toon. I'm sure there are a few people that fall into that category, and if so, good for them...there's a bundle that makes sense for them to buy.

But for MANY others, the decision is not anywhere near that easy to make because we would never consider buying every bonus item for every alt, so bonus items for alts you don't have or don't play regularly don't have much value.

Hence the purpose of this thread...to help people figure out what makes the most sense of for them based on their situation, not to criticize those that are saying the bundle doesn't make sense for them based on the information they have so far.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

I have to agree with you. It seems like people are more willing to boohoo on something they never seen yet vs Wait and see. For VoronturEU If 12 toons are close to 22k. You would be more like 31k TP.

I think that it's a little disingenuous to include the cost of a Crystal of Remembrance for each alt when comparing prices, because it assumes that everyone is willing to not only accept purchasing advantages on their character, but also that they will certainly do so.

Believe it or not, there are some players left who feel that character improvement should happen within the game and are able to resist spending $15 to increase the DPS on our First Ages by 1.5%, or $60-$75 to add +50 to all of our stats.

Sadly, I suspect that the people who are happy to plunk down $70 for a "free" Crystal of Remembrance for each character are mostly people who will only be using the Crystals on Third and Second Age LIs, neither of which will have enough points to make the Crystal of any use as it is. Even worse, there are people who are already wasting them on their current level 75 LIs (at least according to these very forums and the occasional glff comment that I've seen).

But hey, as long as Turbine can keep luring in the sort of folks who P.T. Barnum says are born every minute, then maybe I'll get to see Mordor someday without ever giving Turbine another dime myself.

Originally Posted by Lestache

I think that it's a little disingenuous to include the cost of a Crystal of Remembrance for each alt when comparing prices, because it assumes that everyone is willing to not only accept purchasing advantages on their character, but also that they will certainly do so.

Believe it or not, there are some players left who feel that character improvement should happen within the game and are able to resist spending $15 to increase the DPS on our First Ages by 1.5%, or $60-$75 to add +50 to all of our stats.

Sadly, I suspect that the people who are happy to plunk down $70 for a "free" Crystal of Remembrance for each character are mostly people who will only be using the Crystals on Third and Second Age LIs, neither of which will have enough points to make the Crystal of any use as it is. Even worse, there are people who are already wasting them on their current level 75 LIs (at least according to these very forums and the occasional glff comment that I've seen).

But hey, as long as Turbine can keep luring in the sort of folks who P.T. Barnum says are born every minute, then maybe I'll get to see Mordor someday without ever giving Turbine another dime myself.

I think it would only be disingenuous if it was Turbine using that argument to try to convince us it was a good deal. But for those that can justify the price TO THEMSELVES using this reasoning, well, then that is what works of them.

Again, the purpose of this thread is to help people figure out what makes sense for themselves, not to tell others what they should think or do or criticizing them for coming to a different conclusion because they value different things differently than you or I do.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone for expressing their views...just trying to keep the thread on it's intended track.

Originally Posted by Lestache

I think that it's a little disingenuous to include the cost of a Crystal of Remembrance for each alt when comparing prices, because it assumes that everyone is willing to not only accept purchasing advantages on their character, but also that they will certainly do so.

Believe it or not, there are some players left who feel that character improvement should happen within the game and are able to resist spending $15 to increase the DPS on our First Ages by 1.5%, or $60-$75 to add +50 to all of our stats.

Sadly, I suspect that the people who are happy to plunk down $70 for a "free" Crystal of Remembrance for each character are mostly people who will only be using the Crystals on Third and Second Age LIs, neither of which will have enough points to make the Crystal of any use as it is. Even worse, there are people who are already wasting them on their current level 75 LIs (at least according to these very forums and the occasional glff comment that I've seen).

But hey, as long as Turbine can keep luring in the sort of folks who P.T. Barnum says are born every minute, then maybe I'll get to see Mordor someday without ever giving Turbine another dime myself.

I tend to save mine for level 85 LI Second age or better.

Okay - so I thought that I would lay out a few details (since I have purchased this) to help others in contemplation mode. I am not here to persuade folks (to each their own), but to help as that is what I like to do.

In addition, I have converted some items into TP so you can numerically do this evaluation.

Average TP cost is $1 = 96TP. This is a straight average from their 600pt to their 23k pt values. I have no idea what the purchase distribution is across those tiers to do a weighted average, but my guess is that it wouldn't materially vary from the straight average.

Here is what you get: (All non-consumable items are bound to account meaning unlike many store items you can get rid of extras you dont want and circle around the others to your other toons - this prevents storage issues.)

1. Crystal of Remembrance: Add a 7th slot to your LI. It's a blank, therefore, when you replace it, it starts as a t2. Additionally there is no other Legacy Pts for it. (Not sure if legacy pts is something they will add a Tome for or Store item.) However, in MoM 7 was standard and you could get as many as 9, but we could only go to level 60, so, we had feweer pts, b but still found value - Value is 995 per character (and since you get 1 for every character you create that is 8,995 TP value (this is whether you have them now or you delete and start a new one).

2. 6th bag spot: That is 105 extra spaces across 9 characters. Currently the store offers 15 slots in personal vault at 295tp, which is 2,655 account wide. Since a bag is more powerful than a vault space, I assume that is why they price it at 995.

3. Deed - An Unusual Arrival: No Reward - just a completed deed - it triggers the quest mail though

4. Exclusive Title: Friend of the Mark (I didn't find titles for sale in store.)

5. Exclusive Quest Series: Combe Stable-help - it's a 20ish quest pack you get now to do Session Play

6. Deed - Horsing Around: A help the horse deed with an undisclosed reward

7. Deed - Discovering Descendants: A quest/location deed for session play with an undisclosed reward

8. Outriders Token: 25% Monster Kill XP till 75. Current store version is 995 per character. I cannot place a total value on this bc many of us have our toons at 75, so, I'll leave it at 995 bc buying individual tomes would be way more expensive.

9. Map to Hengstaker Farm: One time use a 50TP value - material since the session plays happen from there

10. Steed of Eastemnet: Steeds in store cost 1195 TP

11. Soldier Appearances x4: Rohan Warrior Man, Warrior Woman, Rohan Man, Woman

12. 4 Orange Tier Cloaks level 75: (better than many drop cloaks but not better than Draigoch Orange. 4 per character but are bound to account. Two cosmetic differences. Arodness: 308 Crit, 308 Tact Mastery, 56V, 56W; Afolness: 616 Phy Mastery, 56M, 56V; Hwatness: 616 Phy Mastery, 56A, 56V; Framness: 308 parry, 308 evade, 56M, 56V

13. Exclusive Rohan content: TBD/Unknown

14. 5 Pieces Cosmetic: Eastemnet Appearance





Assessment: Not all of these things are of value to everyone. But that is why there are multiple tiers. If it's not something you want/like/care about, you can just get normal xpac version.

For those of you who like these items, here is the math:
$40 is base (includes Title, and steed, soldiers, cloaks)
$10.37 per crystal
$10.37 for the bag
$.50 map
$10.37 per Outrider Token
$? Cosmentic (personal value)
$? Quests/Deeds/Session Play (personal value)
$? Exclusive Content (unknown)

Hope this helps make the assessment for you on value to upgrade easier.

If you are deliberating over whether the $40 is worth it, I think you can really only assess if you like the amount of content, the quality of content, the replay value, systems, story, and general approach. If you do not like what you have seen, then it's probably best not to expect change. I think it's pretty clear since F2P what the systems and general game play models are.

Wise

Originally Posted by JTollers

Okay - so I thought that I would lay out a few details (since I have purchased this) to help others in contemplation mode. I am not here to persuade folks (to each their own), but to help as that is what I like to do.

In addition, I have converted some items into TP so you can numerically do this evaluation.

Average TP cost is $1 = 96TP. This is a straight average from their 600pt to their 23k pt values. I have no idea what the purchase distribution is across those tiers to do a weighted average, but my guess is that it wouldn't materially vary from the straight average.

Here is what you get: (All non-consumable items are bound to account meaning unlike many store items you can get rid of extras you dont want and circle around the others to your other toons - this prevents storage issues.)

1. Crystal of Remembrance: Add a 7th slot to your LI. It's a blank, therefore, when you replace it, it starts as a t2. Additionally there is no other Legacy Pts for it. (Not sure if legacy pts is something they will add a Tome for or Store item.) However, in MoM 7 was standard and you could get as many as 9, but we could only go to level 60, so, we had feweer pts, b but still found value - Value is 995 per character (and since you get 1 for every character you create that is 8,995 TP value (this is whether you have them now or you delete and start a new one).

2. 6th bag spot: That is 105 extra spaces across 9 characters. Currently the store offers 15 slots in personal vault at 295tp, which is 2,655 account wide. Since a bag is more powerful than a vault space, I assume that is why they price it at 995.

3. Deed - An Unusual Arrival: No Reward - just a completed deed - it triggers the quest mail though

4. Exclusive Title: Friend of the Mark (I didn't find titles for sale in store.)

5. Exclusive Quest Series: Combe Stable-help - it's a 20ish quest pack you get now to do Session Play

6. Deed - Horsing Around: A help the horse deed with an undisclosed reward

7. Deed - Discovering Descendants: A quest/location deed for session play with an undisclosed reward

8. Outriders Token: 25% Monster Kill XP till 75. Current store version is 995 per character. I cannot place a total value on this bc many of us have our toons at 75, so, I'll leave it at 995 bc buying individual tomes would be way more expensive.

9. Map to Hengstaker Farm: One time use a 50TP value - material since the session plays happen from there

10. Steed of Eastemnet: Steeds in store cost 1195 TP

11. Soldier Appearances x4: Rohan Warrior Man, Warrior Woman, Rohan Man, Woman

12. 4 Orange Tier Cloaks level 75: (better than many drop cloaks but not better than Draigoch Orange. 4 per character but are bound to account. Two cosmetic differences. Arodness: 308 Crit, 308 Tact Mastery, 56V, 56W; Afolness: 616 Phy Mastery, 56M, 56V; Hwatness: 616 Phy Mastery, 56A, 56V; Framness: 308 parry, 308 evade, 56M, 56V

13. Exclusive Rohan content: TBD/Unknown

14. 5 Pieces Cosmetic: Eastemnet Appearance





Assessment: Not all of these things are of value to everyone. But that is why there are multiple tiers. If it's not something you want/like/care about, you can just get normal xpac version.

For those of you who like these items, here is the math:
$40 is base (includes Title, and steed, soldiers, cloaks)
$10.37 per crystal
$10.37 per bag (may be account wide not sure)
$.50 map
$10.37 per Outrider Token
$? Cosmentic (personal value)
$? Quests/Deeds/Session Play (personal value)
$? Exclusive Content (unknown)

Hope this helps make the assessment for you on value to upgrade easier.

If you are deliberating over whether the $40 is worth it, I think you can really only assess if you like the amount of content, the quality of content, the replay value, systems, story, and general approach. If you do not like what you have seen, then it's probably best not to expect change. I think it's pretty clear since F2P what the systems and general game play models are.

Wise

+rep, im still not going to buy it, but thanks for the info :P

Originally Posted by JTollers

Okay - so I thought that I would lay out a few details (since I have purchased this) to help others in contemplation mode. I am not here to persuade folks (to each their own), but to help as that is what I like to do.

In addition, I have converted some items into TP so you can numerically do this evaluation.

Average TP cost is $1 = 96TP. This is a straight average from their 600pt to their 23k pt values. I have no idea what the purchase distribution is across those tiers to do a weighted average, but my guess is that it wouldn't materially vary from the straight average.

Here is what you get: (All non-consumable items are bound to account meaning unlike many store items you can get rid of extras you dont want and circle around the others to your other toons - this prevents storage issues.)

1. Crystal of Remembrance: Add a 7th slot to your LI. It's a blank, therefore, when you replace it, it starts as a t2. Additionally there is no other Legacy Pts for it. (Not sure if legacy pts is something they will add a Tome for or Store item.) However, in MoM 7 was standard and you could get as many as 9, but we could only go to level 60, so, we had feweer pts, b but still found value - Value is 995 per character (and since you get 1 for every character you create that is 8,995 TP value (this is whether you have them now or you delete and start a new one).
...

+ rep for info but not buying..

From my point of view RoR legendary contains..
1.) Crystal - I can live without that, moreover it's just one-time use
2.) 6th bag - this is the BEST thing of exp - you can buy it for 995TP in September
3.) Titles, deeds - I don't evaluate titles and deeds which I got without effort however unique they are
4.) Horse quests - few solo quests.. not interested
5.) Steed - nice one
6.) Cosmetics - really nice one
7.) Soldier cosmetics - nice one
8.) +25% monster xp token - I already have RoI one lvl 65. I usualy throw it away on lvl 50+ when I get some strong pocket item (On higher levels you get less monster kill xp and more quest xp anyway).

For me (I guess for many players too) this is just expensive questpack (without instances) with 6th bag and some nice cosmetics. You can multiply TP values as you like but it's just not worth it for me.
I would pay 70$ if Turbine will add there instances and 1000-2000TP and they can remove some junk items from it..

If there will be -30% cart discount you can get RoR questpack + 6th bag for 3700TP.. about 30$. (some TP bonus pack)

Originally Posted by JTollers

13. Exclusive Rohan content: TBD/Unknown

The horse quests are the "exclusive content".

Read again:


I'm not sure how people are interpreting it to mean anything more.

Originally Posted by JTollers

Okay - so I thought that I would lay out a few details (since I have purchased this) to help others in contemplation mode. I am not here to persuade folks (to each their own), but to help as that is what I like to do.

Nice post. Thanks.

Originally Posted by shann81

+ rep for info but not buying..
For me (I guess for many players too) this is just expensive questpack (without instances) with 6th bag and some nice cosmetics. You can multiply TP values as you like but it's just not worth it for me.
I would pay 70$ if Turbine will add there instances and 1000-2000TP and they can remove some junk items from it..

If there will be -30% cart discount you can get RoR questpack + 6th bag for 3700TP.. about 30$. (some TP bonus pack)

To be fair though, the xpac is $40. That is $10 more than last year - but includes the steed, and two other items I itemized above. RoI didn't come with instances if folks recall. Whether folks like that or not, a personal evaluation needs to assess it on that price and those terms when comparing it. There is quite a bit more in RoR initial content than RoI. I am not saying that means it has to be worth $10 extra dollars for each person, but it should be assessed at that $40 level.

Originally Posted by Tamiya

The horse quests are the "exclusive content".

Read again:


I'm not sure how people are interpreting it to mean anything more.

Agree - but I believe as mentioned on the Rohan site that one of the trees in the mounted combat play is only open for the $70 purchase. That was my read...I could be wrong and Sap/Celestra will need to confirm.

Originally Posted by JTollers

To be fair though, the xpac is $40. That is $10 more than last year - but includes the steed, and two other items I itemized above. RoI didn't come with instances if folks recall. Whether folks like that or not, a personal evaluation needs to assess it on that price and those terms when comparing it. There is quite a bit more in RoR initial content than RoI. I am not saying that means it has to be worth $10 extra dollars for each person, but it should be assessed at that $40 level.

RoI did have instances, they were not released at the same time as the expansion but were included in the purchase price. Also you got a buggy raid, but a raid non the less.

RoR has no instances at all.

Originally Posted by cossieuk

RoI did have instances, they were not released at the same time as the expansion but were included in the purchase price. Also you got a buggy raid, but a raid non the less.

RoR has no instances at all.

My understanding from RoR site is that the instances following in the roughly promised Dec time frame are part of the xpac except for F2P. F2P will have to purchase them. If indeed they are not part of the $40 for VIP/Lifers, then yes that would be something, but that is not the impression I read about them. A dev can confirm.

The raid was not playable for most folks (Draigoch) and to be technical, it wasn't suppose to be part of RoI. Originally it was suppose to be released in June following Echoes of the Dead. To compliment that, the website does state that there will be mounted combat for end game content. If it is progressive and a new content space that is re-playable, then what does it matter whether I instance in. It's group-wide-end-game-content with new mechanics (Roaving Warbands).

It's one thing to try to assess the $40 versus what we got in RoI for $30, but different as to whether the $40 is worth it in any case. The former should be assessed equitably, the later really on the amount of content Turbine pushed out (and the announcement they are hiring even more devs) in the last year. I'd encourage folks to weight their $40 on that.

Originally Posted by JTollers

My understanding from RoR site is that the instances following in the roughly promised Dec time frame are part of the xpac except for F2P.

This is not the case.

All we know is that the IC is not part of the expansion and that it will come as a part of a regular update.

This means that it is very possibly free for VIPs. If that is the case then it should be independent of whether you bought the expansion or not. Just VIP status is what counts.

I currently believe that it will be free for VIPs.

And a f2p who bought the expansion is not f2p anymore. The account is then premium.

Originally Posted by JTollers

Agree - but I believe as mentioned on the Rohan site that one of the trees in the mounted combat play is only open for the $70 purchase. That was my read...I could be wrong and Sap/Celestra will need to confirm.

I never got that impression, just that there'd be some sort of exclusive skill (which I imagine won't be that amazing, given its exclusivity). That's all the pre-order site really mentions as far as that goes.

For the trees, I've only seen that there are apparently 3 trait lines... One is free, the other two would be considered part of the expansion based on what has been told to us in the forums (or perhaps sold separately in the LOTRO store, but that's just my assumption).

Originally Posted by JTollers

Agree - but I believe as mentioned on the Rohan site that one of the trees in the mounted combat play is only open for the $70 purchase. That was my read...I could be wrong and Sap/Celestra will need to confirm.

That's not what it says at all.

There are 3 trait-trees for mounted combat. If you buy any version of the expansion with cash, you get access to all 3 trees. If you don't buy the expansion, you get access only to 1, with the other 2 unlockable via LOTRO Store. It is currently unclear if the TP purchase of the "Rohan Expansion Content" pack contains these 2 locked trees, or if they're yet more separate purchases.

Originally Posted by cossieuk

RoI did have instances, they were not released at the same time as the expansion but were included in the purchase price. Also you got a buggy raid, but a raid non the less.

RoR has no instances at all.

As I said:

Originally Posted by Sapience

As most of you know, last week we launched the Riders of Rohan pre-purchase program. While initial sales have been strong and overall response has been positive, we have been paying very close attention to feedback from our community, where some concerns have been raised.

First, many of you shared how much you appreciated the inclusion of Turbine Points as part of last year’s offers. While we believe that the Rohan packs already offer an excellent value, we’ve heard your request and are now adding bonus points into all tiers of the Pre-purchase packs!
The updated editions will now include:

• Base Edition: 1,000 Bonus Turbine Points
• Heroic Edition: 1,000 Bonus Turbine Points
• Legendary Edition: 2,000 Bonus Turbine Points

Are you one of the many players who already purchased Riders of Rohan? You get points too! Anyone who has already applied their Rohan key will see points credited directly to their account over the next few business days. You will not need to contact customer service to receive your points. They will be granted automatically.

Additionally, some players had questions about the instance cluster coming after the launch of RoR. While we are still not ready to talk about the details of the cluster we did want to confirm that we will be releasing a new instance cluster in an update after Rohan launches, and that the cluster will be free to all players who have purchased the Riders of Rohan expansion.
Thanks to everyone for your candid feedback about the pre-purchase offers and the Rohan expansion. At Turbine we have always made it a point to listen closely to our players and adjust when necessary to provide the best possible entertainment experience.

Note: There are a large number of accounts that will be receiving a points credit as part of this change. Please allow 3-5 business days for your points to arrive.

Originally Posted by JTollers

As I said:

This is a complete 180 from Turbine, until a few hours ago you got no instances but due to the outrage on the forum, and perhaps poor sales, as well as gaming sites not being to favourable to the pre-order deals Turbine have done a u-turn

Originally Posted by cossieuk

This is a complete 180 from Turbine, until a few hours ago you got no instances but due to the outrage on the forum, and perhaps poor sales, as well as gaming sites not being to favourable to the pre-order deals Turbine have done a u-turn

They never said/published it was going to cost everyone $ to purchase. That was a conclusion people chose to have. There is a small quote floating around from Celetstra that is connected back to the fact that F2P always has to buy content and they hadn't settled on the price it would be in the store. Not sure how that is a 180.

Turbine has provided clusters as part of their xpacs to date; RoI was the first it came later (which actually made sense) and was the first xpac after F2p, which is also why it was separated like that. Additional, it was not outlined like that either when first announced that your $30-$60 at that time was buying that until clarified in later publishing of RoI. Those two things together is what made an assumption (if one had to be made) that it would be as it has been in the past part of the xpac.

I am not saying they cannot be a bit more helpful to folks in clarity, but I think people jump to conclusions so quickly around here. It can be hard to anticipate that is something you actually need to state when it has been the case to date.

Originally Posted by JTollers

They never said/published it was going to cost everyone $ to purchase. That was a conclusion people chose to have. There is a small quote floating around from Celetstra that is connected back to the fact that F2P always has to buy content and they hadn't settled on the price it would be in the store. Not sure how that is a 180.

Turbine has provided clusters as part of their xpacs to date; RoI was the first it came later (which actually made sense) and was the first xpac after F2p, which is also why it was separated like that. Additional, it was not outlined like that either when first announced that your $30-$60 at that time was buying that until clarified in later publishing of RoI. Those two things together is what made an assumption (if one had to be made) that it would be as it has been in the past part of the xpac.

I am not saying they cannot be a bit more helpful to folks in clarity, but I think people jump to conclusions so quickly around here. It can be hard to anticipate that is something you actually need to state when it has been the case to date.

This quote seems quite clear

The mention of the cluster being free to players who have purchased Rohan was incorrect, and that's what we have removed.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...04#post6219804

So being free for purchasing was incorrect, but now it is correct so I stand by my claim of a u-turn

Originally Posted by cossieuk

This quote seems quite clear



http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...04#post6219804

So being free for purchasing was incorrect, but now it is correct so I stand by my claim of a u-turn

I guess what i was saying is that premium and f2p have had to purchase these. VIPs have not. So in terms of that context this is a first that premium got content for free,

I bought the legendary edition and here was my interpretation of it's value as a player with a lvl 65ish main and a bunch of level 10-40 alts:

6th bag slot - I need this immediately
horse quest content - sounds like fun
25% exp boost to 75 - I already have the one to 65% but sure, why not
new horse - nice, even though I have the isengard one
crystal - no idea if i'll ever use this but i'll put it in my bank
cosmetic gear - sweet, now all my lowbie alts won't look like hobos
cloaks - meh.. don't need these yet (do these actually turn into lvl 20 cloaks if you open it pre-lvl 20?) If so that might be useful
expansion itself - well i'm gonna need this eventually
2K TP - awesome, I was about to buy some anyway

Was that worth the 70 bucks? I guess so. Honestly I would have preferred to get a lower package since I usually don't splurge on the extravagant packages but the mid tier version was useless to me as I already own the quest packs(nor does it include the bag), and the low version didn't include the bag. So I kinda feel like I was forced to buy some stuff I wouldn't have otherwise bought because I really wanted that 6th bag right away. I think that it's kinda sketchy that they'd include that item in only the most expensive version since it's a pretty big deal to a lot of players and something that 100% of their players would regularly use if it was given to us for free.

Either way I'll be happy as long as they deliver on this expansion. It better be awesome

As far as the Instance Cluster, based on what Sapience said (quoted by JTollers), your subscription status is insignificant. VIP, Premium, F2P, doesn't matter. The only way to get the Instance Cluster is by purchasing any RoR edition. The IC will not be available on Sept 5th, just as the RoI instances were not available immediately. They will be part of a later update. Yet it remains: no expansion purchase, no IC. The IC will not be included in the TP version of the expansion since they aren't available at that time. I dunno why, but Turbine says it just isn't feasible. Therefore, if you don't buy with cash you'll be facing additional TP charges to the existing TP charge for the expansion after Sept 5 rolls around. The way I understand it is that they copy/pasted (or something similar) previous FAQ data (RoI) and didn't notice the IC statements until afterward. The statements made applied to wherever the prototype FAQ came from but didn't apply to RoR. They hastily removed it, but some people had already seen it, thus a wildfire of rumors and complaints, and ultimately chaotic confusion. Celestrata's post regarding this can be seen HERE, or just the following quote:

That line was a mistake on our part yesterday, and we wanted to remove it as fast as possible and let you know as such. That particular line was a leftover line from how we handled instances in Rise of Isengard.

Now, you're right, the Rohan pre-order site's FAQ does not have any of the new questions we've added. Unfortunately, it's a bit harder for us to update that site, so what we're going to do is link the myLOTRO FAQ from the Rohan site. Instead of getting that fancy lightbox on the Rohan Pre-order site, you'll instead be taken directly here, to the always up-to-date FAQ.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused, but we are getting this straightened out.

Celestrata also posted HERE the following quote:

""There are no plans to release an instance cluster simultaneously with the expansion. However, an instance cluster is planned for release in a following update."

We will be releasing an instance cluster after the update comes out. However, we have not discussed the pricing of the cluster at this time. The mention of the cluster being free to players who have purchased Rohan was incorrect, and that's what we have removed. There is no instance cluster coming out simultaneously with the expansion.

We will be discussing the pricing of the instance cluster at a later time.

However, we should all know by now how the lines of communication are not working. If they had been, none of this mayhem would have happened in the first place. Celestrata's posts had been made on June 8th. However, Sapience made an official declaration in a new post HERE on June 14th, which JTollers quoted above, and I shall re-quote in part here:

...we did want to confirm that we will be releasing a new instance cluster in an update after Rohan launches, and that the cluster will be free to all players who have purchased the Riders of Rohan expansion.

The cluster will be free to anyone who purchases RoR. It is included in the expansion. Don't have the expansion, VIPers (or F2P or Premium)? Then you don't get the IC. I'm not a programmer but I have a good grasp of the basics, having lived with programmers all my life. It is highly probable that some amount of codework is applied on an individual by individual basis. The codework tells the game whether you own such and such content. If it doesn't see you own the RoR expansion, it won't permit you entrance to the RoR IC. Sorta like when you go to events and get a stamp on the back of your hand. Its to prove that you've paid for whatever the event is and can get back in if you leave. No RoR stamp? No IC entry. The IC codework will be looking for the RoR expansion codework. The same way quest givers will be looking for your level codework. Don't have the correct code for your level? The quest won't be offered.

That is the way it will work if Sapience's statements are accurate. If more lines got crossed, then your guess is as good as mine. However, since Sapience's claims regarding TP being included in the RoR pre-purchases is already shown to be accurate (given that people are getting their TP and the TP is listed on the Rohan website, etc) it seems pretty solid that the rest of Sapience's statements are accurate.

Well, so if I buy the expansion after the launch, TP or money, whatever, will I receive any of the instances to be launched?

Originally Posted by atmonello

Well, so if I buy the expansion after the launch, TP or money, whatever, will I receive any of the instances to be launched?

I replied more extensively to your question right HERE. Its basically as far as I know but seems to be the current situation with the instance cluster. No need to post the same exact question in multiple places though. I dunno if it applies here on the LOTRO Community forums, but most forums consider that to be spamming... *shrug* But like I said, I dunno if that's the situation here so don't take my word for it...

Originally Posted by Grayferth

In the case of having a lifer-sub with large stockpile of TP; would it be a good call to use my "free" TP to buy the expansion and safe to assume, that cluster will be free of charge for subbers/lifers? Atm I'm not interested in the pre-order goodies.

I have 2 lifetime subs, one with a 'large stockpile' and one with a medium one. Previously I had been pre-ordering the xpacs on one and buying with tp on the other. This time I plan to buy both with tp (the saved 500 per month) as the cash value is not there for me as I have all the fluff I could ever use. I will also use tp for the 6th bag slot on both.

Must say that what I will get for my tp does not seem like much either - this nickel and diming is getting a bit much, and getting way too confusing for my tiny brain to comprehend.