Do characters acquire new skills between levels 76-85?
We have many new skills for each class specific to Mounted Combat, and a new contextual hotbar to minimize skill overload.
In addition to the Mounted Combat skills, we're developing three new or improved skills for each class. For example, a couple ideas we’re currently experimenting with include: making Sword and Staff a passive skill for Lore-masters at level 40 and improving Hunter’s Desperate Flight to include your entire Fellowship.
No, no no. This is a terrible idea for a Hunter update. Imagine what rage would occur if we mis-clicked? Or if we used it when things looked bad but in term, we would have succeeded? This would change the game-play of the hunter from a 'Ranged DPS King' to a, 'Captain of the Retreat' faction. If it had an induction, it might be good, but then that would destroy all hopes of survivability for the class that already requires it.
Perhaps you should pay attention to other things that need fixed beforehand?
Aggro Management - As in, actually allowing end-game hunters to use all of their DPS in a boss fight without any fear of wiping the raid.
A viable second role - In fact, how many people take a Hunter into a group so he can CC?
Survivabilty - As in an 'Oh S**t' button that every other class has. It could be argued that ours is Desperate Flight, but what worth does that have within PvMP?
Please do not move this post into the Hunter forums; where it will be ignored and isolated to the corner where the class currently sits.
guess who dies first in raid or instance? of course its hunter, its like in the horror movies the black dude always dies first lol
this class is so weak !!!!
guess who dies first in raid or instance? of course its hunter, its like in the horror movies the black dude always dies first lol
Probably because the player knows nothing about aggro management. What percentage of Hunter players do you think are ever in anything other than Strength Stance? How many Hunter players take that first shot at their longer range, or make that fist shot an even bigger cluster-frakk by making it Rain of Arrows?
Probably because the player knows nothing about aggro management. What percentage of Hunter players do you think are ever in anything other than Strength Stance? How many Hunter players take that first shot at their longer range, or make that fist shot an even bigger cluster-frakk by making it Rain of Arrows?
The class is not weak, some players are weak.
Oh for crying out loud with S:S, RoI happened almost year ago, time to update "knowledge".
Oh for crying out loud with S:S, RoI happened almost year ago, time to update "knowledge".
LOL I was going to write something a bit more circumspect, but exactly my thoughts! If you have a top notch tank it's not too bad with aggro, but I agree we need an actual dump as opposed to a perceived.
Probably because the player knows nothing about aggro management. What percentage of Hunter players do you think are ever in anything other than Strength Stance? How many Hunter players take that first shot at their longer range, or make that fist shot an even bigger cluster-frakk by making it Rain of Arrows?
On Firefoot, barely any experienced Hunter uses Strength stance because they know they can deal more damage with the max legacy'd Precision Stance. It may seem that Strength Stance increases damage output more-so than other stances, but in term and calculation, Precision Stance deals more damage, and hence gives a greater risk of stealing aggro.
Oh for crying out loud with S:S, RoI happened almost year ago, time to update "knowledge".
What does that have to do with anything? Did they change the aggro engine? Now "more damage" now longer means "more aggro?" Or is there something for high level Hunters so they can shed aggro?
Originally Posted by zalladi
On Firefoot, barely any experienced Hunter uses Strength stance because they know they can deal more damage with the max legacy'd Precision Stance. It may seem that Strength Stance increases damage output more-so than other stances, but in term and calculation, Precision Stance deals more damage, and hence gives a greater risk of stealing aggro.
The majority of characters do not have "max legacy'd."
guess who dies first in raid or instance? of course its hunter, its like in the horror movies the black dude always dies first lol
this class is so weak !!!!
100% depends on the player. I'm typically one of the last, if not very last, member of the raid to die, even though I'm usually always second on the 'aggro/threat list' right after the tank because I'm doing the highest dps in the group. If a hunter is dying first or even second after the tank, then he doesn't know what he's doing.
EDIT: FWIW, if there any champions in your group worth their salt and your hunter is constantly stealing aggro, the champ can always challenge, bring the mob back to the tank, DPS, then dump aggro as long as the hunter is lowering his DPS and threat in the process.
What does that have to do with anything? Did they change the aggro engine? Now "more damage" now longer means "more aggro?" Or is there something for high level Hunters so they can shed aggro?
If you really have to ask then why... oh nvm...
Yes they did change that *part* of aggro engine, you might have noticed lack of aggro component on tooltip months ago. So bringing up S:S as something related to "too much aggro"... smells. What "more damage"? It's comparable at best, weak when crit ratio in particular fight fails and focus generation leaves hunter dry for too long / too often, pathetic when undergeared @ cap with buffed mastery & weak crit, somewhat decent in mid-levels with bonus being actually close to 10% for a change thanks to low mastery. So yeah, threat is like... totally related to hunter knowing only S:S and thus doing... less damage.
And concerning OP: truly awesome idea. People thought Captain making everyone kneel was annoying - imagine their faces in few months Oh, and let's have bugged version first, working in Ettens until some hotfix - entire freep raids disappearing... XD
Last edited by Ferthcott; Jun 07 2012 at 08:10 PM.
It's a really neat idea if you don't consider the problems we'll be having with it. Maybe put a prompt "Would you like to execute this skill?" click YES or NO, or press ENTER to automatically select YES.
It's a really neat idea if you don't consider the problems we'll be having with it. Maybe put a prompt "Would you like to execute this skill?" click YES or NO, or press ENTER to automatically select YES.
No, no no. This is a terrible idea for a Hunter update. Imagine what rage would occur if we mis-clicked? Or if we used it when things looked bad but in term, we would have succeeded? This would change the game-play of the hunter from a 'Ranged DPS King' to a, 'Captain of the Retreat' faction. If it had an induction, it might be good, but then that would destroy all hopes of survivability for the class that already requires it.
Perhaps you should pay attention to other things that need fixed beforehand?
Aggro Management - As in, actually allowing end-game hunters to use all of their DPS in a boss fight without any fear of wiping the raid.
A viable second role - In fact, how many people take a Hunter into a group so he can CC?
Survivabilty - As in an 'Oh S**t' button that every other class has. It could be argued that ours is Desperate Flight, but what worth does that have within PvMP?
Please do not move this post into the Hunter forums; where it will be ignored and isolated to the corner where the class currently sits.
Seconded with much enthusiasm!
Originally Posted by maxjenius
Probably because the player knows nothing about aggro management. What percentage of Hunter players do you think are ever in anything other than Strength Stance? How many Hunter players take that first shot at their longer range, or make that fist shot an even bigger cluster-frakk by making it Rain of Arrows?
The class is not weak, some players are weak.
As for you, You must have never played a raiding hunter at RoI endgame, any hunter who is worth their weight in pixels knows long term dps is maximized with precision stance + faron.
Not really sure what else to add as Zalladi hit it on the head, PLEASE give us some form of active threat management, survivability, and diversity. If df *MUST* be revamped, please consider bringing it back to the moors!
Rank 9 ☩ Marintellion ☩ Hunter
Guardians of the Dagorlad A Leaf on the Wind
Honestly, though, if this were implemented (and keep in mind, it clearly said they were LOOKING AT IT), there would need to be some sort of "accept" button for your fellowship
Frankly, I don't care much what they do with hunter as long as they get rid of some of the stupidly long skill animations that are downright debilitating (Burn Hot, Hunter's Art [never use it to begin with/totally useless skill, but it's still there], Merciful Shot, Track skills, Purge Poison, Intent Concentration, etc).
Every other class has the ability to use the majority of their skills, even utility skills, on the move, but hunters are forced to have to stop and wait on an animation to play out without even having an induction involved to do half our skills.
As far as other complaints go, split shot is decently useful with the Faron set bonuses (although broken at the moment after the fire/light oil updates made it apparently not count as 'split shot' anymore), but Hunter's Art is completely useless unless you're a red-line traited hunter. Maybe give it a threat reduction bonus on top of the original buffs?
Otherwise, the only thing overly broken with the class is the threat generation vs reduction skills. They've still not been updated since the 65 cap afaik, and the reductions that threat down legacies/books have are almost negligible once you get to level 75 and are geared out. I've completely stopped using them because in my experience the loss of dps I get without actually gaining any real threat reduction is pointless, because I'm still unable to actually increase my damage without drawing aggro. Same goes for guardian threat up legacies, etc.
If they add a confirmation button to it, it will defeat the purpose of DF. If you have to think about whether you need the DF or not, and then still the time to click on the accept/reject button, all the while with the dialogue blocking your screen, you either don't need to DF, or you're already dead.
100% depends on the player. I'm typically one of the last, if not very last, member of the raid to die, even though I'm usually always second on the 'aggro/threat list' right after the tank because I'm doing the highest dps in the group. If a hunter is dying first or even second after the tank, then he doesn't know what he's doing.
EDIT: FWIW, if there any champions in your group worth their salt and your hunter is constantly stealing aggro, the champ can always challenge, bring the mob back to the tank, DPS, then dump aggro as long as the hunter is lowering his DPS and threat in the process.
That requires the hunter to be close to the champ.... opening up the paper thin armor to AOE damage and killing said hunter in many parts of endgame play. Also, any type of mez or knockdown on the tank and you are the next quick meal on the list, followed by your healers who will try and save the hunter. Only one dps class is locked into doing a threat dance and that is a hunter. All the rest have ways to lose or transfer threat. If you want to talk fair play give the hunters the same ability or take it away from the other heavy dps classes and then see how things turn out.
Vyxe said, "Cheer up it could be worse out here tonight." So we all cheered up, and wouldn't you know it.... things got worse!
Imagine what rage would occur if we mis-clicked? Or if we used it when things looked bad but in term, we would have succeeded? This would change the game-play of the hunter from a 'Ranged DPS King' to a, 'Captain of the Retreat' faction.
I played a ranger (a.k.a. hunter) on Everquest 2 for years with a group-wide EVAC that worked just like DF except that it had a cooldown of 15 minutes. I never had a case of mis-clicking. In fact, it was extremely useful for porting the group back to the entrance of an instance once we were done; and this is how it was used most of the time. I wouldn't mind having that skill again.
Running LOTRO on a Mac Pro 2x2.66 GHz Dual-Core using Bootcamp
WEAK CLASS???? Yes I must admit I once thought so too; even went as far as vowing to never touch it, then in a moment of overwhelming curiousity tried it.
a few weeks later since, I just reached lvl. 18 whilst undefeated, and doubt I will be defeated any time soon; I went through grinding my first few deeds in record time, compared to other classes I have tried.
WEAK CLASS???? Yes I must admit I once thought so too, BUT NO MORE.
That requires the hunter to be close to the champ.... opening up the paper thin armor to AOE damage and killing said hunter in many parts of endgame play. Also, any type of mez or knockdown on the tank and you are the next quick meal on the list, followed by your healers who will try and save the hunter. Only one dps class is locked into doing a threat dance and that is a hunter. All the rest have ways to lose or transfer threat. If you want to talk fair play give the hunters the same ability or take it away from the other heavy dps classes and then see how things turn out.
Does not require the hunter to be close to the champ. Champ challenge has a range on it, the hunter is supposed to move TOWARDS whatever he has drawn aggro from, not let it come to him, and meet it halfway, NOT all the way in the AOE blob. That way it reduces the distance it travels away from the melee DPS/tank blob. Any champion that knows his job and class well knows that his role is extra insurance for the healers and ranged DPS in case the tank goes down or aggro is somehow lost. That's the reason that champs have an instant aggro pull and multiple bubbles for survivability.
Not saying that you play with bad champs, but doesn't sound like they know what they're doing or there's a lack of observation/communication on someone's part. Or you've simply got more hunters in the group than champs.
I wonder if there is any chance or possibility that an overwhelming petition by the hunter community could point the devs in the right direction somehow?
If they're hellbent on the idea of improving DF, I'd personally suggest removing the 'instant retreat' function altogether except when out of combat, have it replaced by an in-combat +25% speed buff for the entire fellowship like Captain's Make Haste, +15% Evade Chance buff OR something along the lines of a -5% incoming all damage buff. Would not be incredibly out of balance, and at the same time would at least add some sort of positive function to DF instead of it just being an AOE instance break.
This is an absolutely horrid idea.
If they implement this I'll just take DF off my hotbar completely so I cannnot mistakenly use it in a group.
It will just be one more skill in a growing list of useless Hunter skills.
Since it appears to be a skill upgrade, I imagine you'll have to purchase the "upgrade" -- hence, just don't buy the upgade. :-)
Unless, of course, the devs worry about the hunters playerbase not appreciating, or clearly simply not getting the word about this awesomesauce upgrade and stealth upgrading all hunters DF.
Ouch, that realy is a bad Idea... I feel sorry for the hunters.
DF Should be remastered to another kind of skill... Like a 50% Morale bouble that heals you and your power untill full Morale and Full power, while active that hunters damage output is reduced with 95% :P
I dunno about you but, as DF takes you back to spawn or entrance I don't care if I should die or use that skill... I rather die trying than just... Die without loss and not to try.
Maby they improved it since it's the least used Hunter skill?
I wonder why? yea probobly becouse they can't "kill" their whole FS and ruin it for everyone. :P
I realy hope there is more to it than just that it will work on a whole FS... please.
Why don't we simply reverse the DF skill? Instead of moving a live hunter to a spawning point, just teleport a defeated hunter from the spawning point to the place he died. It could be our own little self rez back to the heat of battle.
WEAK CLASS???? Yes I must admit I once thought so too; even went as far as vowing to never touch it, then in a moment of overwhelming curiousity tried it.
a few weeks later since, I just reached lvl. 18 whilst undefeated, and doubt I will be defeated any time soon; I went through grinding my first few deeds in record time, compared to other classes I have tried.
WEAK CLASS???? Yes I must admit I once thought so too, BUT NO MORE.
7/10, very good.
I was actually raging for 3 minutes in my head till I realized.
Peaceguy
"With that, I ran back to Hobbiton, Land of the Noobs" - TSK
Dear devs. You have a hunter sub-forum and several topics filled with suggestions for skills and updates players actually want. And then you spend time experimenting with making Desperate flight fellowship-wide.
After surprisingly negative feedback we decided to respect wishes of community and to cancel "Improved DF". The other improvement to Hunter class (Improved Bright Campfire) remains unchanged. That concludes our Hunter development, see you after 4-5 months folks!
Evac skills are not unheard of in MMOs. Stop freaking out. I would say any hunter who makes it past 75 and is comfortable in groups would know when/how to use evac. And you non-hunters, STOP PROFILING HUNTERS! We are not all a bunch of strength stance, aggro grabbing, DF at the first sign of trouble bumpkins.
Please do not move this post into the Hunter forums; where it will be ignored and isolated to the corner where the class currently sits.
I'm sorry zalladi, but it needs to be moved to the Hunter forums, as this is a uniquely Hunter discussion. General discussion is for an overview of the game, or topics that don't fit into other forums. This topic has a specific forum that it needs to be in. I can, however, tell you that it will not be ignored.
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I'm sorry zalladi, but it needs to be moved to the Hunter forums, as this is a uniquely Hunter discussion. General discussion is for an overview of the game, or topics that don't fit into other forums. This topic has a specific forum that it needs to be in.
Bullplop. Hunters gaining a skill which will negatively impact everyone's gameplay (and don't pretend for a second that it won't) is a community concern, not a hunter one.
I'm sorry zalladi, but it needs to be moved to the Hunter forums, as this is a uniquely Hunter discussion. General discussion is for an overview of the game, or topics that don't fit into other forums. This topic has a specific forum that it needs to be in. I can, however, tell you that it will not be ignored.
Yea Zalladi - if there's one thing the Hunter Forum is renowned for it's the in-depth Community-Class Dev interaction. It's pretty much a 24/7 Piccadilly Circus when it comes to communication. I'm having to type this real quick otherwise ZC will have swooped in and addressed your concerns already. Sometimes it's hard for us ordinary members to get a word in edgeways.
I guess this thread does fit in General, because it won't be all just hunter fellowships being dragged away from battle potentially, all classes will be affected.
It would be useful at the end of an instance when everything is dead, since the Devs still haven't figured out how to add a door to the end of every instance.
"For them to perceive the advantage of defeating the enemy, they must also have their rewards." ~Sun Tzu
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Originally Posted by Rowan
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Oh, and let's have bugged version first, working in Ettens until some hotfix - entire freep raids disappearing... XD
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Re: A bad Hunter idea...
Since it appears to be a skill upgrade, I imagine you'll have to purchase the "upgrade" -- hence, just don't buy the upgade. :-)
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