Thread: No New instances with RoR, did they at least scale more old instances?

Originally Posted by Southpa

You do realize this is little more than a new and improved skirmish soldier, right?
I could have maxed a bunch of soldiers on a bunch of toons - and that would have kept me busy for quite a while, sure.
But why?

Basically, you seem to be of the mindset that any content they provide should be enough to satiate us. You are assuming we care to level a horse and fully immerse ourselves in mounted combat for a few months (at least). As I said before, you're assuming we want to eat what they're serving. I prefer to occupy my time with matters a little more rewarding.

Here's the deal: some of us already know what we like about the game. Doing skirms and leveling soldiers was not fun for me. I don't see any reason that mounted combat will be any different. It's basically going to be a watered-down version of actual combat - on horseback. Whoopee.

I'm an end game player. I enjoy running instances with my friends and figuring out raids. Even RoI had Draigoch (yeah, but still). RoR reports nothing of the sort. This expansion has nothing for me other than a quest pack to help me get back to the end game. And then what am I supposed to do there? Run school and library? Chase wargs on my pony? .

Again... new instances will come. I already said if the notion of being able to create and customize your own War Steed doesn't appeal to you, I can see why you aren't excited about the expansion. So I don't know what more we are going to accomplish here since we are starting to go in circles.

I like my skirmish solider, and had a lot of fun creating and using him. I"m sure I'll enjoy doing the same with my War Steed. You don't, and only like running instances. I get that, and sorry the expansion isn't offering what you like Hopefully the new instances they are planning to introduce won't take very long to come out for your sake.

Originally Posted by Southpa

Heh, 20 levels in a year after spending over 2 years at level 65?
This is a sea change, fella.

"fella"? Lol... I only wish I was as young as you seem to think I am.

And maybe there needs to be a "sea change". Having to wait 2 years for a level increase is pretty ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Again... new instances will come. I already said if the notion of being able to create and customize your own War Steed doesn't appeal to you, I can see why you aren't excited about the expansion. So I don't know what more we are going to accomplish here since we are starting to go in circles.

I like my skirmish solider, and had a lot of fun creating and using him. I"m sure I'll enjoy doing the same with my War Steed. You don't, and only like running instances. I get that, and sorry the expansion isn't offering what you like Hopefully the new instances they are planning to introduce won't take very long to come out for your sake.




"fella"? Lol... I only wish I was as young as you seem to think I am.

And maybe there needs to be a "sea change". Having to wait 2 years for a level increase is pretty ridiculous.

I'd rather wait two years for a level cap increase and have as much content to do as we did in moria/mirk/od than what we are getting now. Besides its only been a year since we got to 75 correct? Now we're going to 85 another year and we'll be hitting another new place at 95 if this pace keep up. Each time we get a +10 level cap we also loose everything we have been working on.

I'm actually laughing picturing a hobbit charging a warband on a pony with daggers in his hand doing one of those mintrell yells. Im a champ and could actually see my toon on a warsteed but southpa hit it on the head. For me why would I want to? I don't. Id want to do the quests and epic just to get to 85 quicker so I can do instances which I may or may not have to pay for even if I pre purchase Rohan. No thanks. If you actually enjoy grinding skirmish soldiers up then more power to you. It seems like this xpac is right up your ally. Judging by the forums however alot of people are not happy about this x pac so who knows whats gonna happen.

Originally Posted by JBriz

To the best of my knowledge, the RoI instances were INTENDED to be releases after the expansion, not with it. This was to complement the story and time line. Think about it, the expansion was based on our efforts to see the events taking place throughout Dunland related to Saruman and the white-hand. The instances occur at a point in time after we have done what we can for Dunland and now need to focus our attention on directly hindering Isengard. Also, we can only access the instances in Isengard because Andras, who was a prisoner of Isengard, learned the ways in and out of Isengard.

As for the RoR expansion, I expect the first month or two will be solely focused on our coming to Rohan and learning of the problems in Rohan. For the most part, the Rohirrim will be on the defensive. This is where the war-bands come in. We will be able to engage the war-bands and drive them from the plains (until they return). These skirmishes (not the same as the actual skirmishes that currently exist in game) will help to simulate our efforts to repel the invaders of Rohan. Once we have these under control, then we/the Rohirrim can then afford to go on the offensive (which I believe will be what the instances are about).

The delayed release of instances also allows them to realocate development resources (in terms of their developers). For the first part, the devs can focus on the expansion, hopefully putting in the time to ensure they are putting out a quality product. Once the expansion is out, ALL of those devs, not just the ones assigned to the instance/raid development team, can then focus on the instance cluster.

While yes, it would be nice to have some end-game content released with the expansion, my hope is that they will put the time into ensuring the quality of the instance cluster and that the current scale-able instances and the new war-band mechanic will be enough to hold people for two or three months until they release the update.

This is an excellent response, +1 for you good sir.

Originally Posted by Isilmacil

This is an excellent response, +1 for you good sir.

Eh, it attributes intelligent design to simply being behind schedule, imo.

Mirkwood was released without BG. The combination of the raid being late and the landmass being small is what brought about the Adventure pack promotion.

Draigoch AND the entire Tower cluster were late with RoI.

Now, we're going without instances with RoR, but they'll be by later for free. Oh, wait, they're charging for them. The goodwill they were pushing for in Mirkwood has been replaced by greed in RoR. Not only that, it's blatantly more expensive than any other MMO on the market. Is Turbine trolling us?

Meanwhile, LIs will have to be built from scratch (with the entire system monetized, at that), they're still trying to sweep the DP perk thing under the rug (ever look at the buffs under the bars of the players completing the raid challenges), and they're pushing questing toward more and more linear paths where there's little to no danger or exploration = boring.

No thanks.

Part of me wonders if the mythical "new kind of endgame" that they're introducing is a more dynamic type of content that this generation of MMOs are starting to introduce (GW2 and Rift, mostly) or maybe something a little more sandboxy, but I doubt it. One thing is certain though, unless the new content is so awesome that it makes my head explode and makes me puke rainbows, ima certainly wait until well after the release to pick up the x-pac, if I do at all.

The emperor has no clothes.

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

I'd rather wait two years for a level cap increase and have as much content to do as we did in moria/mirk/od than what we are getting now. Besides its only been a year since we got to 75 correct? Now we're going to 85 another year and we'll be hitting another new place at 95 if this pace keep up. Each time we get a +10 level cap we also loose everything we have been working on.

I'm actually laughing picturing a hobbit charging a warband on a pony with daggers in his hand doing one of those mintrell yells. Im a champ and could actually see my toon on a warsteed but southpa hit it on the head. For me why would I want to? I don't. Id want to do the quests and epic just to get to 85 quicker so I can do instances which I may or may not have to pay for even if I pre purchase Rohan. No thanks. If you actually enjoy grinding skirmish soldiers up then more power to you. It seems like this xpac is right up your ally. Judging by the forums however alot of people are not happy about this x pac so who knows whats gonna happen.

Colt, it's comments you make like this - "Besides its only been a year since we got to 75 correct?" - that show what a different perspective we have. A year is a long time to me to be stuck at the same level. So we are coming at this from entirely different viewpoints and expectations.

But yeah, I do enjoy customizing and leveling up different aspects of my character, rather it's my actual class, a skirmish solider, my legendary - or a War Steed. That's one of the main reasons I like this game.

And how can you not want to be a hobbit riding around on a war pony? That is awesome. Almost makes me wanna start a new character and go hobbit just for that (if only hobbits could be captains).

It's also very much in-tune with the books, as Pippin and Merry got very good at mounted combat toward the end of the story.

Originally Posted by JBriz

To the best of my knowledge, the RoI instances were INTENDED to be releases after the expansion, not with it. This was to complement the story and time line. Think about it, the expansion was based on our efforts to see the events taking place throughout Dunland related to Saruman and the white-hand. The instances occur at a point in time after we have done what we can for Dunland and now need to focus our attention on directly hindering Isengard. Also, we can only access the instances in Isengard because Andras, who was a prisoner of Isengard, learned the ways in and out of Isengard.

As for the RoR expansion, I expect the first month or two will be solely focused on our coming to Rohan and learning of the problems in Rohan. For the most part, the Rohirrim will be on the defensive. This is where the war-bands come in. We will be able to engage the war-bands and drive them from the plains (until they return). These skirmishes (not the same as the actual skirmishes that currently exist in game) will help to simulate our efforts to repel the invaders of Rohan. Once we have these under control, then we/the Rohirrim can then afford to go on the offensive (which I believe will be what the instances are about).

You do realise that there's a difference between the late delivery of an instance cluster for free (RoI) and deliberately releasing an instance cluster separately just to charge money for it? What the hell are we supposed to spend 40 or up to 70 bucks on, if there is absolutely no content once we've reached level 85?

Originally Posted by JBriz

The delayed release of instances also allows them to realocate development resources (in terms of their developers). For the first part, the devs can focus on the expansion, hopefully putting in the time to ensure they are putting out a quality product. Once the expansion is out, ALL of those devs, not just the ones assigned to the instance/raid development team, can then focus on the instance cluster.

While yes, it would be nice to have some end-game content released with the expansion, my hope is that they will put the time into ensuring the quality of the instance cluster and that the current scale-able instances and the new war-band mechanic will be enough to hold people for two or three months until they release the update.

Are we even playing the same game? What kind of quality product are you talking about, looking at things like Draigoch (still not fixed) or the Tower of Orthanc (partially fixed, Fire and Frost is still nowhere near being a balanced fight, especially if you consider that this is the very first lock of the raid). Do you really expect RoR or the following instance cluster to be a quantum leap in quality? MoM was not only vastly larger in terms of content, landmass, quests, instances and novelties (2 new classes anyone? Legendary Items anyone?) than any of the following so-called expansions, it also was of way better quality, while still delivering a full set of inctances with the expansion.

I dunno... quality has never been their thing - and nowhere more than in instances.
Every one of the Moria 6-mans (7 in all) had some sort of extreme exploitable bug in them. The kind that made them silly easy.

But at least it was content and they were engaging in their own right.

I hoped the delay of RoI instances would mean higher quality. Even though the 3's and 6 mans were mostly free of exploits, they were all kind of boring. Did not have the replayability of older instances for me.

That they didn't want to wait to release either this or RoI until the instances were ready appears to be the way of the future for them. I can do little else than take that as a sign that they no longer see their importance in the same light I do. Instances are an afterthought... and it kinda shows.

Has there been any confirmation that there will be a raid as part of the instance cluster (I couldn't find anything specific)? I assume that there will be a raid, there has to be, right? But then I also assumed an expansion would have more than quests.

$70 isn't a lot of money when you look at entertainment hours / dollar. I'll blow $70 on a nice dinner or a round of golf on a nice course without much thought; but I refuse to be ripped off. I've got a lifetime account, so if there's a free-to-VIPs raid coming with the first update, I'll probably buy the base edition of the expansion. But if there's no guarantee of a raid (another turtle raid doesn't count) or VIPs have to pay extra for the raid, then after five+ years it's finally time to move on.

Originally Posted by Yosoff

Has there been any confirmation that there will be a raid as part of the instance cluster (I couldn't find anything specific)? I assume that there will be a raid, there has to be, right? But then I also assumed an expansion would have more than quests.

$70 isn't a lot of money when you look at entertainment hours / dollar. I'll blow $70 on a nice dinner or a round of golf on a nice course without much thought; but I refuse to be ripped off. I've got a lifetime account, so if there's a free-to-VIPs raid coming with the first update, I'll probably buy the base edition of the expansion. But if there's no guarantee of a raid (another turtle raid doesn't count) or VIPs have to pay extra for the raid, then after five+ years it's finally time to move on.

Good points.

It's not so much about the exact dollar amount involved, nor perhaps even about the hours of entertainment we'd get for our money. For me, it's about the quantity and the quality of the content compared to previous LOTRO expansions specifically, and compared to expansions of other MMOs generally.

In the case of RoR, it really does seem like we're getting less for more, just like we did with RoI.

I wonder what the breaking point for the general community will be. It certainly seems to be here (or very near) for those who like instance/raid content.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

In other words, players are going to be busy exploring the new areas, increasing their level to 85 - and they are even adding an entirely new system to the game in the form of War Steeds that you can customize and level up. So I don't see a lack of new instances here as a big issue. To me adding more levels, new skills, new regions and new ways to advance and customize your character is more important.

hmm so in mirkwood we got an instance cluster and raid, a new area AND a new game system (skirmish) and all for 20 bucks....
now compare that to the 40-70 RoR is and then tell me again

Originally Posted by Yosoff

Has there been any confirmation that there will be a raid as part of the instance cluster (I couldn't find anything specific)?

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...04#post6219804

Originally Posted by Celestrata

""There are no plans to release an instance cluster simultaneously with the expansion. However, an instance cluster is planned for release in a following update."

We will be releasing an instance cluster after the update comes out. However, we have not discussed the pricing of the cluster at this time. The mention of the cluster being free to players who have purchased Rohan was incorrect, and that's what we have removed. There is no instance cluster coming out simultaneously with the expansion.

We will be discussing the pricing of the instance cluster at a later time.

Originally Posted by scrubmonkey

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...04#post6219804

Yeah, I read that, but does the "instance cluster" include a raid? Or is it a couple 3-mans and a 6-man? I want to believe that it will include a raid, but I don't feel like we can take that for granted anymore.

Originally Posted by Lestache

I wonder what the breaking point for the general community will be. It certainly seems to be here (or very near) for those who like instance/raid content.

I've always been supportive of Turbine even when they've released some pretty broken content... but I think you're right... the breaking point is very close. It seems that most of my kin has taken a break at least till Rohan, and even then what are they supposed to do to keep themselves busy when it's released. I'm assuming the instance cluster/raid will come in December as they normally tend to. So that means we have 2-3 months to get 10 levels and play with ponies? Thrilling...

Originally Posted by wakeandbacon

hmm so in mirkwood we got an instance cluster and raid, a new area AND a new game system (skirmish) and all for 20 bucks....
now compare that to the 40-70 RoR is and then tell me again

I would tell you that again Wake. So I don't see your point.

It woudn't have bothered me at all if I had had to wait a little while after Mirkwood was released for the new instances to be added. It didn't bother me with Isengard either.

I'm confident I'll have plenty to keep me occupied until new instances come. But then again, I don't play 24/7 either and won't get to max level, do all the quests, and explore all of the new areas and finish off my Warsteed in a few days either like some of these other posters are claiming they will

Also, keep in mind Mirkwood was before the game went Free to Play, so they may rely on direct sales more to make their profits - so that could be why the expansion is more expensive that past ones. But I actually agree with you that the expansion is pretty pricey, and I never said it wasn't. I"m poor, and 70 bucks is a bigger deal to me than some of these other posters lol

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Also, keep in mind Mirkwood was before the game went Free to Play, so they may rely on direct sales more to make their profits - so that could be why the expansion is more expensive that past ones.

Wait ... what? Turbine themselves admitted that they are making more money since the game has gone f2p via the shop than they were making prior to f2p and claimed that they will reinvest this money into the game, so we would be seeing more content with better quality. So far the only part of this statement that seems to hold true is that they are making more money (through ripping off their customers through the shop and now through selling an expansion in two parts - an overprized questpack and a separate instance cluster) - I don't really see the reinvestment here. But stating that they rely on direct sales more than they did prior to f2p is outright incorrect.

I'm fine with a later raid. You have time to level up mains and toons and gear them out. When they raid arrive you have a solid roster to beat it. And i would call myself very raid addicted.

Originally Posted by Burio

I'm fine with a later raid. You have time to level up mains and toons and gear them out. When they raid arrive you have a solid roster to beat it. And i would call myself very raid addicted.

Delivering the raid later is not the main issue here, as we are already used to this (see Mirkwood or Rise of Isengard). The issue is that the instance cluster will likely be sold as a separate entity, so after paying 40,- up to 70,- bucks on the expansion (which barely deserves the name expansion judged by the content you will get) you will have to spend another unknown amount of money (or TP which equals money in the end) on the instances. And Mirkwood at least came with endgame instances for 3 or 6 players while RoI at least delivered the Draigoch Raid for endgame player - RoR offers nothing for level capped players until the instance cluster comes out.

I think that Premium and F2P player need to buy the cluster, regardless if the pre purchase ror or not. But it will be free for VIP Players, like every other Content update too. I'm okay with this.

Turbine talks about other content for endgame until the cluser will re released. That is okay for me, as i already stated.

Originally Posted by Burio

I think that Premium and F2P player need to buy the cluster, regardless if the pre purchase ror or not. But it will be free for VIP Players, like every other Content update too. I'm okay with this.

I hope that holds true, as it's never been confirmed by Trubine. For all we know, they will "discuss" pricing for the instance cluster later (whatever that means). I'm afraid that they do indeed plan to rip off VIPs as well, as they could have already confirmed that the instance cluster will be free for VIPs if that was indeed the case (they wouldn't hurt themselves in any way and they would calm down the masses by doing so). Instead the only thing we have is a statement from Turbine, that they do not plan on making the cluster free to players who have purchased Rohan and that any mention of that was incorrect.

Originally Posted by Burio

Turbine talks about other content for endgame until the cluser will re released. That is okay for me, as i already stated.

Lets hope that they include a new tier of level 85 skirmish gear, as building a city with daily quests, grinding up a warsteed and fishing to the excess is not the kind of endgame that keeps me interested in this game.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I hope that holds true, as it's never been confirmed by Trubine. For all we know, they will "discuss" pricing for the instance cluster later (whatever that means). I'm afraid that they do indeed plan to rip off VIPs as well, as they could have already confirmed that the instance cluster will be free for VIPs if that was indeed the case (they wouldn't hurt themselves in any way and they would calm down the masses by doing so). Instead the only thing we have is a statement from Turbine, that they do not plan on making the cluster free to players who have purchased Rohan and that any mention of that was incorrect.

A common turbine Probleme isn't it? Communication is the keyword and turbines communication is really bad. I remember the Isengard release, they need weeks to confirm that you can buy Isengard Questpack via Shop form day 0. I don't think they will sales they new cluster to vips too, because that would kill the last reason to be vip. I really think they will release the Cluster in a normal content update which is free for vip. I hope they only discuss a extra pricing for premium/vip regardless pre purchase RoR, that would be the difference to isengard where pre order customer regardless of status get the cluster for free.

See, that's what I really don't understand about how they're doing RoR. If the instance cluster was included as part of the expansion (even if released at a later time) I would probably spend real money on RoR because it almost always is cheaper to spend real money than to buy TP and then spend those on piecemeal stuff.

However, as a VIP, if I'm getting the instance cluster for free (probably) later on down the road, why should I bother spending real money when I can just buy the expansion content for a relatively low TP price?

Originally Posted by Gylve

See, that's what I really don't understand about how they're doing RoR. If the instance cluster was included as part of the expansion (even if released at a later time) I would probably spend real money on RoR because it almost always is cheaper to spend real money than to buy TP and then spend those on piecemeal stuff.

However, as a VIP, if I'm getting the instance cluster for free (probably) later on down the road, why should I bother spending real money when I can just buy the expansion content for a relatively low TP price?

As VIP - you can play as long as your subscription lasts... The moment you stop being Vip - you are stuck with whatever qp you actually bought with TP's....

Personally - i bought the RoR stuff because honestly - if i look at the time spend in the game - and calculate how much i payed per hour (total $$$ payed for all vip months + Isen + RoR + TP packs) / total game time - i am still a hell of a lot cheaper then going to the movies - doing anything else...

Lets say i spend 300$ in total on this game (i spend less - but lets use the number) - and currently on my main toon i have played for 1 month - 3 weeks and change... Add my other 3 toons and i am easily playing 2 months

300 / 24*60 = 0.208 $ per hour gameplay... Try going to the movies for that amount of time...

I am sure turbine will bring end-game raids / instances or they will see the servers even more abandoned like now...

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Wait ... what? Turbine themselves admitted that they are making more money since the game has gone f2p via the shop than they were making prior to f2p and claimed that they will reinvest this money into the game, so we would be seeing more content with better quality. So far the only part of this statement that seems to hold true is that they are making more money (through ripping off their customers through the shop and now through selling an expansion in two parts - an overprized questpack and a separate instance cluster) - I don't really see the reinvestment here. But stating that they rely on direct sales more than they did prior to f2p is outright incorrect.

Vodomir, if you re-read my post more carefully you will see that I said they "MAY" rely on direct sales more since they went free to play. I was offering a theory as to why the price of the expansion was higher than Mirkwood was. I don't work at Turbine, so I can't say either way with certainty, and never pretended I could.

Originally Posted by Nemesis_Belgium

Personally - i bought the RoR stuff because honestly - if i look at the time spend in the game - and calculate how much i payed per hour (total $$$ payed for all vip months + Isen + RoR + TP packs) / total game time - i am still a hell of a lot cheaper then going to the movies - doing anything else...

Lets say i spend 300$ in total on this game (i spend less - but lets use the number) - and currently on my main toon i have played for 1 month - 3 weeks and change... Add my other 3 toons and i am easily playing 2 months

300 / 24*60 = 0.208 $ per hour gameplay... Try going to the movies for that amount of time...

i don't get why you would compare your RoR purchase to a movie as if the only alternative to playing Lotro is to go sit in a movie theater. you should be comparing it to other games. fact is that for the price of RoR you can buy a new game, whether that be GW2 or something else.

for the other posters asking if a "breaking point has been reached" i would say that it has, at least for my kin. very few of us are pre-ordering RoR and even fewer of us are even excited about it.

just lettin everone know

As most of you know, last week we launched the Riders of Rohan pre-purchase program. While initial sales have been strong and overall response has been positive, we have been paying very close attention to feedback from our community, where some concerns have been raised.

First, many of you shared how much you appreciated the inclusion of Turbine Points as part of last year’s offers. While we believe that the Rohan packs already offer an excellent value, we’ve heard your request and are now adding bonus points into all tiers of the Pre-purchase packs!
The updated editions will now include:•Base Edition: 1,000 Bonus Turbine Points
•Heroic Edition: 1,000 Bonus Turbine Points
• Legendary Edition: 2,000 Bonus Turbine Points
Are you one of the many players who already purchased Riders of Rohan? You get points too! Anyone who has already applied their Rohan key will see points credited directly to their account over the next few business days. You will not need to contact customer service to receive your points. They will be granted automatically.

Additionally, some players had questions about the instance cluster coming after the launch of RoR. While we are still not ready to talk about the details of the cluster we did want to confirm that we will be releasing a new instance cluster in an update after Rohan launches, and that the cluster will be free to all players who have purchased the Riders of Rohan expansion.
Thanks to everyone for your candid feedback about the pre-purchase offers and the Rohan expansion. At Turbine we have always made it a point to listen closely to our players and adjust when necessary to provide the best possible entertainment experience.

Note: There are a large number of accounts that will be receiving a points credit as part of this change. Please allow 3-5 business days for your points to arrive.

posted by sapience


so instances are now included in expansion price

Originally Posted by Souku

i don't get why you would compare your RoR purchase to a movie as if the only alternative to playing Lotro is to go sit in a movie theater. you should be comparing it to other games.

He's comparing it to other leisure pursuits and movies was just an example.

For me, if I wasn't playing LOTRO the time saved would not, in fact, be used to play other games. Other games are not competing with LOTRO for my time. I have no interest in any other games. So for me, comparing the cost of LOTRO to other games is pointless. LOTRO is, in fact, cheaper than almost all the other things with which I'd fill the time should I stop playing.

well the points are welcome and so is the news that the "instance cluster" will be included with price of rohan, however i still will not be satisfied untill i hear details about said "instance cluster" things like only 1 6 man, or the only raid is a lair raid, or worse yet there is no raid. i too feel like we can now take nothing for granted as far as the content of this game is concerned

Originally Posted by Zulubeast

We'll get one faceroll raid from RoR to get us the first decent gear and good jewelry, just like Draig. Once we're all happy with our loot and want something more, guess what?!/!?!? Turbine just thought up of a NEW INSTANCE CLUSTER YAAAAYYYYY and its only 995 TP YAYAYAYAY and there's new GEAR AND WEAPONS AND STUFF OH MY GOD.

Seriously Turbine. Do an expansion right. Stop this halfway bullcrap you did with RoI. $70 for an expansion without real raid content + having to buy the IC? Please.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I personally think turbine is just like every other gaming company out there and trying to do the best they can with what they've got. They could always go the route of so many other MMO's especially Galaxies and just shut down the servers and close the doors on Middle-Earth.

Or they could work hard and bust @$$ and continue to make a truly enchanting experience that you can technically play completely for free provided you are willing to grind tp.

And as far as a new instance cluster goes, it's just a vicious cycle for end-game players and elitists and hardcore raiders anyways, but hey I hear WoW has all kinds of instances and stuff to do at all levels of play, or Rift or TOR.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I haven't been impressed with SWTOR... at all. Huge dissapointment to me. LOTRO is way better IMHO.

Star Wars is horribly repetitive. When I log in I have 3 options... I can do the same dailies I always do on either Belsavis or Corellia... or I can stand in the fleet for hours spamming the chat channel and hope a group materalizes. It gets old fast.

And raiding... well, let's just say I busted my ### doing hard mode raids for Rakata gear only to find it's basically the same as the normal mode raid gear. It has the exact same set bonuses... and gave me like 3 or 4 more willpower. That's difficult to get excited about. In fact, it's pure lameness.

And SWTOR has bugs galore too. Raid bosses especially - and they randomly become invincible and one shot everyone. Multiple raiding groups wiped all night for example two weeks ago on the robot boss because it was bugged. I know because I was there while it was happening lol

So for all of LOTRO's flaws, and there are plenty - at least it offers a rich a varied world with lots to do, great variety in gameplay, lots of customization and useful crafting options, and deep character development. All of these things SWTOR sorely lacks - and most of the new content they have been rolling out has been nothing but glorified alt grinding - which I just don't find appealing at all.

Plus rep to you sir, for one: being intelligent, and 2: actually being able to post in a forum without either trolling or QQing. Kudos, wish you were on my server

Originally Posted by Southpa

Apparently they have all kinds of new "end-game" features from what I read.
Of course, that involves fishing, helping build Rider shanties and probably culling invasive plant species from the region. If all the new features are in-line with "summon your soldier on the landscape!" I think I can safely look away. Fresh boredom is still boredom.

I simply won't buy it until I see them offer me a reason or 2 to level characters again. "Instance pack coming soon" doesn't cut it for me. Even Mirkwood had a decent package. Of course I didn't think so at the time, but right about now, it's looking pretty stellar.

Ya might as well wait until the final 56 man raid on Barad Dur is announced then, because it doesn't make sense from any perspective to release a new REGION with new quest hubs, new game mechanics, new skirms, new epics, new landscape quests, new Rep factions and a new Instance Cluster? What would happen if they did add the cluster to the Expansion, would everyone start whining about when turbine is going to release the next region because three months have passed and the elite raiders have not only figured out all the new instances but are teaching everyone else how to do them and the playing population is now getting bored?

The game shouldn't cater to old content. Ideally anyway.

No, you are very correct, the game should not cater to old content, the company working it's @$$ off to produce and maintain this amazing game should cater to it's customer base since that's the whole point of any business, and this is a business, it just so happens that they make an entertaining porduct so poor Turbine will catch a hell of a lot of flak from it's client base. In the end though, they need to cater to their customers and since the customer base of this game is so varied from one end of the spectrum to the other and all points in-between, they simply have to make do with what they've got, and as customers most of us should be happy (And are happy) that they are even making new content, updating old content, and revamping other content to increase our enjoyment (and therefore our spending money) so that their servers can show people logging in for whatever reason across all servers everyday. While I don't work for Turbine althoguh that would be sweet, I give them a hearty thanks for creating, editing, updating, and most importantly maintaining all the content so that I the consumer can enjoy it literally free of charge.

Originally Posted by ZL900

support turbine when theyre butchering the world of lotr?

They are doing a much better job of providing regular people access to Middle-Earth than Peter Jackson did and is doing. I could see Tolkien going tsk-tsk maybe over turbine's interpretation of Middle-Earth, but I'm positive he's rolling over in his freakin grave at PJ and the stinkfest of five over-glorified horrible movies that are butchering the hell out of LOTR.

Originally Posted by Chupakabara

What Southpa says is true for me also.

Turbine bets everything on mount combat with this expansion. The new mechanic we know nothing about. Not many of us wanted this, even less even thought about it. It may be an interesting thing, but what if it wont? What will Turbine do then? They will have a game without PvE endgame. Like without any sort of PvE endgame.

Is grinding LIs fun? Is grinding LIs endgame? No it is just a grind to get you ready for the endgame. For the real endgame. For now I cant understand what is so "wooohoooo" about that horse stuff. Looks like another boring grind with (im sure) new Store items to help us get through this grind faster.

My raid team was one week away from leaving lotro last december. If not U5 with ToO cluster we were done with this game. Now, without even a buggy drake... I dont know, AAA Level MMORPG 70 bucks expansion without an instance cluster??? Smels like a failure.

I hear WoW is accepting all donations of your time and money and will provide you with real "quality" content, raiding, and oh so colorful tweens to group with. ^_^

Originally Posted by Isilmacil

This is an excellent response, +1 for you good sir.

And +1 for you good sir, for supporting the most intelligent comment in this entire thread. Figures my server has someone with some sense.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Wait ... what? Turbine themselves admitted that they are making more money since the game has gone f2p via the shop than they were making prior to f2p and claimed that they will reinvest this money into the game, so we would be seeing more content with better quality. So far the only part of this statement that seems to hold true is that they are making more money (through ripping off their customers through the shop and now through selling an expansion in two parts - an overprized questpack and a separate instance cluster) - I don't really see the reinvestment here. But stating that they rely on direct sales more than they did prior to f2p is outright incorrect.

How are they ripping you(us) off exactly? I mean $70 is a bit expensive, but nearly every console and PC game is $60+ dollars right off the back for a standard edition with Collector's Editions going for $80~$150. Not to mention the fact that they are offering you the user the opportunity to play the entire game free of charge. That's an incredible perk for a massive gaming experience in a nerd's paradise. The only downside is grinding out the tp to pay for the content not immediately available in the new f2p model. If you're impatient for that other content, then pay real money for it, but stop whining when they are doing a fantastic job with the best they can in an industry that can chew up and spit out major companies with hundreds of millions of dollars in the span of a quarter. And if doing all the same old things that are being offered now, plus being able to use a mount for combat, plus getting a level cap raise, plus a whole new REGION aren't making you want this expansion, then don't buy it, turbine and the majority of the existing remaining player base will not lose any sleep over you not playing this anymore.

I think the main problem is that these instances and raids have such a short shelf-life due to the production schedule. 10 levels every year means last year's content becomes obsolete after 12 months... oh, it took an extra 3 months to finish the instances, now we're down to a 9-month lifespan. That's A LOT of dev time and effort spent on something that few people will run after 9 months. I think that's the primary reason why ToO and Draigoch are still so buggy after so long; in a few months no one will care about them, so why bother fixing them? (I'd bet my life savings that Turbine managers said the very same thing months ago)

As for me, I have no interest in L85 skirm raids, school/library, and the like. That dead horse was beaten enough last year with the last expansion, and I just won't do it again. If that means I don't buy RoR until December, then so be it, other games will hold my interest.

I do think the price is a little high but not so much that I won't buy it. They really should have a instance cluster available with the xpac. Its seems odd to me to have an expansion for an MMO that has no group play in it. I could be a little more forgiving of it if they would go back to some small parts of the landscape being more difficult and dangerous with grouping up being needed to easily succeed.

I agree with the others that have mentioned a desire to see the level cap not change. My hotbars are full. I don't need any more new abilities and the improved abilities that they have started doing generally don't excite me a whole lot. There is no alternative advancement system unless you count LI as one. All of that means that there is very little need for new level caps. Once every couple of years is more then sufficient and a 5 level cap would be all that is needed. We just don't have much room for the things that you attain from leveling.

...theres no new instances or raids? so &&& exactly are we supposed to do at max level?

Originally Posted by Myrdyrwar

How are they ripping you(us) off exactly? I mean $70 is a bit expensive, but nearly every console and PC game is $60+ dollars right off the back for a standard edition with Collector's Editions going for $80~$150. Not to mention the fact that they are offering you the user the opportunity to play the entire game free of charge. That's an incredible perk for a massive gaming experience in a nerd's paradise. The only downside is grinding out the tp to pay for the content not immediately available in the new f2p model. If you're impatient for that other content, then pay real money for it, but stop whining when they are doing a fantastic job with the best they can in an industry that can chew up and spit out major companies with hundreds of millions of dollars in the span of a quarter. And if doing all the same old things that are being offered now, plus being able to use a mount for combat, plus getting a level cap raise, plus a whole new REGION aren't making you want this expansion, then don't buy it, turbine and the majority of the existing remaining player base will not lose any sleep over you not playing this anymore.

yes youre very right no one will care if i or anyone leaves besides my kin. still, fact is there're no new instances, youre in the instances and raids section where the majority of people reading probably enjoy end game content, and many of us pay subscription fees.

of course there are those of us left wanting.

Originally Posted by Myrdyrwar

They are doing a much better job of providing regular people access to Middle-Earth than Peter Jackson did and is doing. I could see Tolkien going tsk-tsk maybe over turbine's interpretation of Middle-Earth, but I'm positive he's rolling over in his freakin grave at PJ and the stinkfest of five over-glorified horrible movies that are butchering the hell out of LOTR.

I didn't like the movies either. And "butchering the hell out of" is a good way to put what they did to the story. They made a bloody mess out of it to be sure, and a lot of the changes they did were just weird and unnessassary. The characters were also very generically done - and by the time the movie was over I was rooting for Sauron to kill them all. And trying to make it through those Aragorn/Arwen love scenes (or the Sam/Frodo ones for that matter) without puking or leaving the theatre was a challenge.

Jackson is really good at computer-generated characters, but he sucks at bringing real personalities to life. I've noticed that about him. Probably a side-effect of how he started his career in the horror-film industry. Those aren't exactly known for well-acted roles, and much of the emphasis is put on the "monster" and the actors/actresses are mostly just there as props to get slaughtered in unususal ways.

So while he's great at bringing graphics to life (Gollum was probably the most well-acted role on those movies for example) he deffinitely needs to team up with a more skilled director if he wants to advance his movies past anything but glorified horror flicks with good effects and mediocre acting.