Thread: No New instances with RoR, did they at least scale more old instances?

and if turbine did not even do this, WHAT in the heck did they spend their time doing? with no new instances, if they indeed did not scale anymore old instances this is NOT an Xpack its an overpriced glorified update!

Remember no new instances (besides Dragioch which was supposed to be released pre-RoI) were added with ROI initially. The Isengard cluster was added later. Its possible the same thing will happen with this one. I find it had to believe that they would increase the level cap without planns for new end-game instances. Plus, even without instaces, this is still way more than an update. Its introducing 10 more levels plus mounted combat and new areas. That sounds more like an expansion than an update to me.

its not a real xpack without instances to me PERIOD, many others feel the same way and are VERY disheartened by this trend with turbine....... at least with RoI we got draigooch and new loot for the raid skirms which had previously not been played by groups much so they felt new,
in short RoI had a endgame raid AND reworked older content to hold us over, all i see with RoR is more money for LESS content

Originally Posted by Wraithlord

Remember no new instances (besides Dragioch which was supposed to be released pre-RoI) were added with ROI initially. The Isengard cluster was added later. Its possible the same thing will happen with this one. I find it had to believe that they would increase the level cap without planns for new end-game instances. Plus, even without instaces, this is still way more than an update. Its introducing 10 more levels plus mounted combat and new areas. That sounds more like an expansion than an update to me.

Let's think about this... They spun the Isengard cluster as being part of the cost of the Isengard expansion and part of the expansion itself, but the expansion launched in September with the Isengard cluster in December. If they do the same thing, you'd effectively paying them for the promise of content, not paying for actual content accessible on the day it launches. Let's not forget the buggy mess that the Isen cluster/Tower of Orthanc was and still is... 6 months after release.

As a contrast, Rift just announced their first paid expansion. 2 new continents that literally triple the total landmass in the game that you can explore. A new capitol city that spans multiple ZONES, 7 (yes S E V E N) 5 man dungeons, 3 raids (that's right. 3. raids. 1, 2, 3), 4 new souls (additional skill trees for each class that amount to 4 new classes), player/guild housing, the list goes on. I guarantee this will be priced around $30-50. Now look back at everything displayed for RoR, look at the pre-order pricing, and really re-assess whether Turbine are offering quality content or just a fast cash grab at the sake of the LOTR fans.

So basically we level to 85... and then do what? Stand around in the new main town and do nothing?

I'd like to see the promise of instances with it and at least a mention of a new raid early on in the horizon.

I personally won't be buying it until I see more to go with it.

Originally Posted by distillered

So basically we level to 85... and then do what? Stand around in the new main town and do nothing?
.

well "obviously" you can go on one of the new Fishing raids that all the super casuals will be overjoyed about.

downloading rift right now to give it a fair shake in light of the dismal future lotro "obviously" has now

really its just been a downward spiral since Moria anyway

Originally Posted by distillered

So basically we level to 85... and then do what? Stand around in the new main town and do nothing?

Nothing of the sort, you can go fishing or build an outpost. Dangerous sport that fishing, not to mention building an outpost. You might get splinters in your hands, better bring lots of healers.

I think that for a lot f people the "expansion", communication and the new endgame contents can be summed up in the following:


ummmm...

Originally Posted by wakeandbacon

well "obviously" you can go on one of the new Fishing raids that all the super casuals will be overjoyed about.

downloading rift right now to give it a fair shake in light of the dismal future lotro "obviously" has now

really its just been a downward spiral since Moria anyway

I enjoyed Rift immensely, has a massive amount of endgame content, lot of flexibility with the class system, extremely well polished game. Personally, I'm hooked on SWTOR and the content they keep rolling out for it plus Bioware's plans for the rest of the year are absolutely top notch. Both Trion and Bioware have a nice policy of not releasing content until it's actually ready to be released.

They're also good on the customer service front and take care of their paying subscribers unlike Turbine. Bioware had to hold back some content in their 1.2 update because they didn't feel it was ready for release... So they gave every subscriber a free month. When the final boss of a raid in Rift bugged out with less than 10% health to go, GMs reviewed each ticket then awarded all of the loot that would have been in the chest to the raid leader as temporarily BoE to distribute to the rest of the raid accordingly. Compare that to the responses to Draigoch.

If Rift and SWTOR don't keep your interest, GW2 is going to be well polished, fun, and will likely drain the moors on every LOTRO server anyway.

Instances can be fun - but I think their necessity here is being exagerated.

The real purpose of Instances is basically just to make content lasts after max level is reached so players have something to work on together to advance their character anyways. And since Riders of Rohan is increasing the level cap to 85 and adding new things to work on, I really don't see why having new instances included is that important.

In other words, players are going to be busy exploring the new areas, increasing their level to 85 - and they are even adding an entirely new system to the game in the form of War Steeds that you can customize and level up. So I don't see a lack of new instances here as a big issue. To me adding more levels, new skills, new regions and new ways to advance and customize your character is more important.

Originally Posted by distillered

So basically we level to 85... and then do what? Stand around in the new main town and do nothing?

I'd like to see the promise of instances with it and at least a mention of a new raid early on in the horizon.

I personally won't be buying it until I see more to go with it.

How about buying it based on how much enjoyment you have received from playing LOTRO over the years? Is $70 REALLY that much to some people? If it is then I pity your financial situation. If you don't want to buy it out of principle then why are you even still around? If you are still around because you love the game then cough up some dough and support it!

Has Turbine ever introduced a new level cap and NOT had something (if not immediately, then very shortly afterwards) to do at the new level cap? Seriously.

We'll get one faceroll raid from RoR to get us the first decent gear and good jewelry, just like Draig. Once we're all happy with our loot and want something more, guess what?!/!?!? Turbine just thought up of a NEW INSTANCE CLUSTER YAAAAYYYYY and its only 995 TP YAYAYAYAY and there's new GEAR AND WEAPONS AND STUFF OH MY GOD.

Seriously Turbine. Do an expansion right. Stop this halfway bullcrap you did with RoI. $70 for an expansion without real raid content + having to buy the IC? Please.

Originally Posted by Neverwhere616

I enjoyed Rift immensely, has a massive amount of endgame content, lot of flexibility with the class system, extremely well polished game. Personally, I'm hooked on SWTOR and the content they keep rolling out for it plus Bioware's plans for the rest of the year are absolutely top notch. Both Trion and Bioware have a nice policy of not releasing content until it's actually ready to be released.

They're also good on the customer service front and take care of their paying subscribers unlike Turbine. Bioware had to hold back some content in their 1.2 update because they didn't feel it was ready for release... So they gave every subscriber a free month. When the final boss of a raid in Rift bugged out with less than 10% health to go, GMs reviewed each ticket then awarded all of the loot that would have been in the chest to the raid leader as temporarily BoE to distribute to the rest of the raid accordingly. Compare that to the responses to Draigoch.

If Rift and SWTOR don't keep your interest, GW2 is going to be well polished, fun, and will likely drain the moors on every LOTRO server anyway.

I haven't been impressed with SWTOR... at all. Huge dissapointment to me. LOTRO is way better IMHO.

Star Wars is horribly repetitive. When I log in I have 3 options... I can do the same dailies I always do on either Belsavis or Corellia... or I can stand in the fleet for hours spamming the chat channel and hope a group materalizes. It gets old fast.

And raiding... well, let's just say I busted my ### doing hard mode raids for Rakata gear only to find it's basically the same as the normal mode raid gear. It has the exact same set bonuses... and gave me like 3 or 4 more willpower. That's difficult to get excited about. In fact, it's pure lameness.

And SWTOR has bugs galore too. Raid bosses especially - and they randomly become invincible and one shot everyone. Multiple raiding groups wiped all night for example two weeks ago on the robot boss because it was bugged. I know because I was there while it was happening lol

So for all of LOTRO's flaws, and there are plenty - at least it offers a rich a varied world with lots to do, great variety in gameplay, lots of customization and useful crafting options, and deep character development. All of these things SWTOR sorely lacks - and most of the new content they have been rolling out has been nothing but glorified alt grinding - which I just don't find appealing at all.

I've no problem if they release rohan without istance as soon as they will realease them not soo much after the Expansion release. You need time to lv up, complete deed in new area, try new mounted combat, build your third age LI and then... 1-2 month later you can start with istacne.

Get a life meanwhile!

Originally Posted by Arlecchino79

I've no problem if they release rohan without istance as soon as they will realease them not soo much after the Expansion release. You need time to lv up, complete deed in new area, try new mounted combat, build your third age LI and then... 1-2 month later you can start with istacne.

Get a life meanwhile!

There's only one problem with that.

Levelling can be done in less than a week
Deeds can be done in a couple of days
Mounted combat... well, expect it to be buggy
LIs can be done within a night providing you stock some runes etc (yes there's a a level difference, just level one at a time and it can be done in a heartbeat)

So without any instances (and not counting skraids) there's only gonna be 1-2 weeks worth of game for the faster people. For people who like a slower pace this won't be a problem but not everyone like to take it slow just as not everyone like to go fast. This expansion is VERY good if you prefer to take it slow, if you're like me though (e.g. GR took three EVENINGS to complete with all quests, rep, whatnot), it's not even gonna be enough for the first week.

Wouldn't it be better if everyone got something instead of just parts of the community?

Originally Posted by wasteland

How about buying it based on how much enjoyment you have received from playing LOTRO over the years? Is $70 REALLY that much to some people? If it is then I pity your financial situation. If you don't want to buy it out of principle then why are you even still around? If you are still around because you love the game then cough up some dough and support it!

Has Turbine ever introduced a new level cap and NOT had something (if not immediately, then very shortly afterwards) to do at the new level cap? Seriously.

Cool, I didn't know Rupert Murdoch played LotRO.

I'll buy it anyways.

To the best of my knowledge, the RoI instances were INTENDED to be releases after the expansion, not with it. This was to complement the story and time line. Think about it, the expansion was based on our efforts to see the events taking place throughout Dunland related to Saruman and the white-hand. The instances occur at a point in time after we have done what we can for Dunland and now need to focus our attention on directly hindering Isengard. Also, we can only access the instances in Isengard because Andras, who was a prisoner of Isengard, learned the ways in and out of Isengard.

As for the RoR expansion, I expect the first month or two will be solely focused on our coming to Rohan and learning of the problems in Rohan. For the most part, the Rohirrim will be on the defensive. This is where the war-bands come in. We will be able to engage the war-bands and drive them from the plains (until they return). These skirmishes (not the same as the actual skirmishes that currently exist in game) will help to simulate our efforts to repel the invaders of Rohan. Once we have these under control, then we/the Rohirrim can then afford to go on the offensive (which I believe will be what the instances are about).

The delayed release of instances also allows them to realocate development resources (in terms of their developers). For the first part, the devs can focus on the expansion, hopefully putting in the time to ensure they are putting out a quality product. Once the expansion is out, ALL of those devs, not just the ones assigned to the instance/raid development team, can then focus on the instance cluster.

While yes, it would be nice to have some end-game content released with the expansion, my hope is that they will put the time into ensuring the quality of the instance cluster and that the current scale-able instances and the new war-band mechanic will be enough to hold people for two or three months until they release the update.

Apparently they have all kinds of new "end-game" features from what I read.
Of course, that involves fishing, helping build Rider shanties and probably culling invasive plant species from the region. If all the new features are in-line with "summon your soldier on the landscape!" I think I can safely look away. Fresh boredom is still boredom.

I simply won't buy it until I see them offer me a reason or 2 to level characters again. "Instance pack coming soon" doesn't cut it for me. Even Mirkwood had a decent package. Of course I didn't think so at the time, but right about now, it's looking pretty stellar.

Originally Posted by Southpa

Apparently they have all kinds of new "end-game" features from what I read.
Of course, that involves fishing, helping build Rider shanties and probably culling invasive plant species from the region. If all the new features are in-line with "summon your soldier on the landscape!" I think I can safely look away. Fresh boredom is still boredom.

I simply won't buy it until I see them offer me a reason or 2 to level characters again. "Instance pack coming soon" doesn't cut it for me. Even Mirkwood had a decent package. Of course I didn't think so at the time, but right about now, it's looking pretty stellar.

Mirkwood was Art. The forest, the music, the dark tower in the distance with the Nazgul flying around the top. I thought it was something special.

Sadly the landscapes were too simple, so the gameplay suffered some. But it had so much personality I forgave it's flaws.

You mention fishing and building "shanties" yet conveniently neglect to mention the coolest thing about Rohan - the ability to create, customize, and level up your own War Steed. That is just cool, and that alone makes me look forward to this expansion.

New instances will come. Don't worry. In the meantime, we should have plenty to do.

Originally Posted by Southpa

I simply won't buy it until I see them offer me a reason or 2 to level characters again. "Instance pack coming soon" doesn't cut it for me. Even Mirkwood had a decent package. Of course I didn't think so at the time, but right about now, it's looking pretty stellar.

Oh, how times have changed. Remember this?

Originally Posted by Victorie

Please note that this first section in italics specifically and only refers to the Pre-Orders available through November 18, 2009.

The second section references upgrades available prior to the launch of Free to Play.
[/B]
[/COLOR][/COLOR]Please note that the Cloak and Goat are ONLY pre-order items. They are no longer available and are not included if you purchase(d) the Adventure Pack after November 20, 2009.
[I]
Here are the answers to some frequently asked questions about upgrading to the Siege of Mirkwood or the Adventure Pack.

For Everyone

-With the Adv Pack, you get the cloak now.
-With the Adv Pack, you get the goat, bank and character slots at the launch of Mirkwood
-You must already have Mines of Moria on the account in order to upgrade to SoM and/or the Adv Pack.
-If you are not currently active, and want to reinstate, but do NOT want the Adv Pack, then be sure to click the yellow "Resume" button. "Upgrade Now" will be a purchase of the Adv Pack, and will cost $19.99.


Lifetime Subscribers

-If you pre-order the Adv Pack (before 11/14/09) then you will get SoM for free. Please note you must have paid the Lifetime subscription fee before the date of launch.
Total cost for upgrade $19.99 (plus taxes if applicable).

-If you don't want the Adv Pack, you can just buy SoM when it launches.
Total cost for upgrade $19.99 (plus taxes if applicable).

-Please note that even if the system asks you to pick a billing plan you will NOT be charged any additional subscription fees, as long as the Lifetime payment has already processed. [/COLOR]


Multi Month Subscribers (3, 6 or 12 month plans)

-If you are currently on a Multi Month plan and your account is active on the date of launch, you will receive SoM for free. Just don't change to a non-Multi Month billing plan. You can change to a different Multi Month billing plan.

-If you change to a Multi Month plan before 10/31/09 and your account is active on the date of launch, you will receive SoM for free.

-You can buy the Adv Pack for $19.99 (plus taxes if applicable).


Monthly Subscribers

-You can buy the Adv Pack now for $19.99 (plus taxes if applicable).
-You can buy SoM when it launches for $19.99 (plus taxes if applicable).

[B]Please note that the above information was valid for the pre-order only through 11/18/09. For the current information, please see this post later in this thread.

[/COLOR][/COLOR] [/COLOR]

Right on, Scrub.
$20 was a relative steal, considering it included character slots, revamped combat, the new skirmish system (even though meh), three 3-mans, probably the best 6-man ever and BG. The landmass did not feel much smaller than Dunland and that's all that really matters.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

You mention fishing and building "shanties" yet conveniently neglect to mention the coolest thing about Rohan - the ability to create, customize, and level up your own War Steed. That is just cool, and that alone makes me look forward to this expansion.

See, and I could care less about fighting on a pony. Could. Care. Less. It's a gimmick. Another Store vehicle. I don't find it "cool" in the least and really want no part of it.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

New instances will come. Don't worry. In the meantime, we should have plenty to do.

That assumes you want to eat what they're serving.

I know instances will come. That's not the crux of the matter.
Problem #1 is that they used to come at the same time as the xpac.
Problem #2 is that they used to be guaranteed free to VIPs who bought the xpac.
Problem #3 is that they're being all sketchy about pricing for the Instance cluster and already bait-and-switched some customer sects who have pre-ordered RoR with their eye on the coming Instance pack.

It took me 3-4 days to level a toon through Dunland. Four toons, I'm "busy" for about 2 weeks and then sporadically as I gain keeper gear which I've learned to not really sweat too much until later Updates - making the actual release pretty easy to gloss-over.

This doesn't even take into account that I've spent the past year in this game getting 4 toons built pretty solid due to gaining 10 levels and now I'm expected to do it again in order to play the game that I want to play?

Sorry, this hamster's wheel is wearing out.

Originally Posted by Southpa

Right on, Scrub.
$20 was a relative steal, considering it included character slots, revamped combat, the new skirmish system (even though meh), three 3-mans, probably the best 6-man ever and BG. The landmass did not feel much smaller than Dunland and that's all that really matters.

There's no need to be too starry-eyed about the mirkwood expansion, it was only meant to be a mini expansion and I remember even at the time there where alot of complaints about the size, the fact that there was only one 6 man, etc.

However I do agree with you and scrub. The major issue is that since mirkwood they have continued to offer less and charge more. I get the feeling that mounted combat will be skirmishing on horseback. Most companies are able to release a new game and charge less than 70$ for it, obviously someone at turbine is doing something wrong somewhere if a glorified quest pack costs more than a complete rewrite would...

Originally Posted by dannypl

There's no need to be too starry-eyed about the mirkwood expansion, it was only meant to be a mini expansion and I remember even at the time there where alot of complaints about the size, the fact that there was only one 6 man, etc.

Do tell.
If you read the thread, you will see I made the relative disclaimer. Mirkwood (and the value of), mini expansion or not, blows everything since right out of the water. Everything. In that respect, I think most long-time players who appreciate the end game will feel fine getting starry eyed and pining for the old days... But it's been a steady roll downhill for this game. Mirkwood had to live up to Moria, which it didn't. Isengard had to live up to Mirkwood, which it didn't (see a pattern?). There's no reason at all for me to have a hunch that RoR will top RoI. None.

Originally Posted by dannypl

Most companies are able to release a new game and charge less than 70$ for it, obviously someone at turbine is doing something wrong somewhere if a glorified quest pack costs more than a complete rewrite would...

It's laughable is what it is.
This experiment will fail them.
And we'll still hear about how RoR is the best-selling xpac of all tiiiiiiiiime.

Originally Posted by Southpa

See, and I could care less about fighting on a pony. Could. Care. Less. It's a gimmick. Another Store vehicle. I don't find it "cool" in the least and really want no part of it..

lol... you make it sound like we are going to be riding into combat on My Little Ponies or something. They are WAR STEEDS Southpa.

But anyways, if you don't like like the idea of mounted combat then I can deffinitely see why you woudn't be interested in Rohan. That's it's most distinguishing feature, so makes sense if you not interested in that why you woudn't be interested in expansion. Sounds and looks cool to me though - but I guess we'll see what we'll see.

Originally Posted by Southpa

That assumes you want to eat what they're serving.

I know instances will come. That's not the crux of the matter.
Problem #1 is that they used to come at the same time as the xpac.
Problem #2 is that they used to be guaranteed free to VIPs who bought the xpac.
Problem #3 is that they're being all sketchy about pricing for the Instance cluster and already bait-and-switched some customer sects who have pre-ordered RoR with their eye on the coming Instance pack.

It took me 3-4 days to level a toon through Dunland. Four toons, I'm "busy" for about 2 weeks and then sporadically as I gain keeper gear which I've learned to not really sweat too much until later Updates - making the actual release pretty easy to gloss-over.

This doesn't even take into account that I've spent the past year in this game getting 4 toons built pretty solid due to gaining 10 levels and now I'm expected to do it again in order to play the game that I want to play?

Sorry, this hamster's wheel is wearing out.

Well like I said earlier Southpa, I can understand your dis-interest for the expansion if being able to create, customize, and level up your own war steed doesn't appeal to you. It sounds awesome to me, but we all have our own likes and dislikes so I can respect the fact you don't like this and therefore understand why you don't like the expansion.

I do agree with you in respect to how quickly the leveling up happens on this game though. Especially considering how rich the environments are on LOTRO - it would be really nice if the "journey" did keep you occupied a little longer than a few days. But of course then you would have people complaining that it takes too long to level up and how they loath the "grind". So to be honest they can't really win either way.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I do agree with you in respect to how quickly the leveling up happens on this game though. Especially considering how rich the environments are on LOTRO - it would be really nice if the "journey" did keep you occupied a little longer than a few days. But of course then you would have people complaining that it takes too long to level up and how they loath the "grind". So to be honest they can't really win either way.

There is one way they can win. Give us more time to play content on toons we've spent the better part of a year gearing-out and making incremental upgrades on rather than forcing us to level in order to play at the end-game. The doldrums come when the content stops coming. Who says it has to be in the form of level cap increases? Take that right out of the equation and they'd still be able to give us plenty to do.

When F2P went live, we had been level 65 for quite a while. They released OD and the In Their Absence line as well as some gear upgrades. That kept lots of people busy even though they had been 65 for (guessing) close to 2 years? And that was even when stat caps still existed. This type of "progression" holds so much more promise now that stat caps are gone, but alas, it's not as easy for them to itemize because there's less grinding involved and it would take more work for them to add on-level grinds.

I understand some people like to level. I understand it makes them feel more powerful when they revisit old content. But at level, you're no more powerful. You're on par with the new max. The game shouldn't cater to old content. Ideally anyway.

They could give us everything they give us with level increases without increasing levels: rep factions, new skills, traits, gear, gobs of quests, instances, raids - you name it. There is no more stat cap, so that's not working against progression of power. Levels are artificial for the end-game player, but most people don't see that because it's such a convention.

Originally Posted by wasteland

How about buying it based on how much enjoyment you have received from playing LOTRO over the years? Is $70 REALLY that much to some people? If it is then I pity your financial situation. If you don't want to buy it out of principle then why are you even still around? If you are still around because you love the game then cough up some dough and support it!

Has Turbine ever introduced a new level cap and NOT had something (if not immediately, then very shortly afterwards) to do at the new level cap? Seriously.

Some people prefer sticking to the principle of not spending money on things that aren't worth it. For raiders, right now, does the expansion seem worth it?

Originally Posted by wasteland

How about buying it based on how much enjoyment you have received from playing LOTRO over the years? Is $70 REALLY that much to some people? If it is then I pity your financial situation. If you don't want to buy it out of principle then why are you even still around? If you are still around because you love the game then cough up some dough and support it!

Has Turbine ever introduced a new level cap and NOT had something (if not immediately, then very shortly afterwards) to do at the new level cap? Seriously.

support turbine when theyre butchering the world of lotr?

Originally Posted by Southpa

There is one way they can win. Give us more time to play content on toons we've spent the better part of a year gearing-out and making incremental upgrades on rather than forcing us to level in order to play at the end-game. The doldrums come when the content stops coming. Who says it has to be in the form of level cap increases? Take that right out of the equation and they'd still be able to give us plenty to do.

When F2P went live, we had been level 65 for quite a while. They released OD and the In Their Absence line as well as some gear upgrades. That kept lots of people busy even though they had been 65 for (guessing) close to 2 years? And that was even when stat caps still existed. This type of "progression" holds so much more promise now that stat caps are gone, but alas, it's not as easy for them to itemize because there's less grinding involved and it would take more work for them to add on-level grinds.

I understand some people like to level. I understand it makes them feel more powerful when they revisit old content. But at level, you're no more powerful. You're on par with the new max. The game shouldn't cater to old content. Ideally anyway.

They could give us everything they give us with level increases without increasing levels: rep factions, new skills, traits, gear, gobs of quests, instances, raids - you name it. There is no more stat cap, so that's not working against progression of power. Levels are artificial for the end-game player, but most people don't see that because it's such a convention.

Southpa, I understand what you are saying - sorta.

But why does adding new content that involves leveling up appeal less to you than new content that doesn't involve leveling up? That's what I don't get. It amounts to the same thing - and both offer the player ways to improve their character.

After reading your posts it sounds more like to me your main issue is with increasing level caps and the whole level-based system in general, rather this expansion specifically.

That being said though I do think it would be interesting to see a new system put into place on MMOs to manage character development. One that preferably kept "old content" more viable while at the same time allowing for newer content. That would be cool. But considering the foundations of LOTRO are based on a leveling up model, it would be difficult to accomplish on this game. It would require an enitrely new re-working of existing systems, and the whole game would have to be bascially re-designed from the ground up.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Southpa, I understand what you are saying - sorta.

But why does adding new content that involves leveling up appeal less to you than new content that doesn't involve leveling up? That's what I don't get. It amounts to the same thing - and both offer the player ways to improve their character.

After reading your posts it sounds more like to me your main issue is with increasing level caps and the whole level-based system in general, rather this expansion specifically.

That being said though I do think it would be interesting to see a new system put into place on MMOs to manage character development. One that preferably kept "old content" more viable while at the same time allowing for newer content. That would be cool. But considering the foundations of LOTRO are based on a leveling up model, it would be difficult to accomplish on this game. It would require an enitrely new re-working of existing systems, and the whole game would have to be bascially re-designed from the ground up.

Look at how it was when mirkwood was released. With it came bg and a new six man and five more levels I believe could be off cuz i just a noob at that time. At 65 though you could do any of the new bg instances on level, and almost all of the moria content (instances) was still relevant. Heavies constantly ran hoc or fg (i think) for the pocket items. GS was being run all the time to get your moria set (yes i know they changed to that system), people still did watcher and turtle fairly regularly. DN still had alot of the best jewellry in the game.

Now we have two six man which are more important to grind for fragments rather than the girl they drop. The three, three mans are pretty much useless. One raid has decent gear but can the gear can easily be replaced, and the other raid hasn't even been beaten by many of the raiding kins out there, and so far the loot from there seems rather lame anyway.

Rather than releasing rohan as a level cap increase they could (and I think i would like it better) have released it as a large new area with new quests and soon to come new instances and a new raid. That way at 75 we would have three raids, 2+ however many are added six mans and 3+ however many are added three man. We'd also have a new mounted combat mechanic to play around with.

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

Look at how it was when mirkwood was released. With it came bg and a new six man and five more levels I believe could be off cuz i just a noob at that time. At 65 though you could do any of the new bg instances on level, and almost all of the moria content (instances) was still relevant. Heavies constantly ran hoc or fg (i think) for the pocket items. GS was being run all the time to get your moria set (yes i know they changed to that system), people still did watcher and turtle fairly regularly. DN still had alot of the best jewellry in the game.

Now we have two six man which are more important to grind for fragments rather than the girl they drop. The three, three mans are pretty much useless. One raid has decent gear but can the gear can easily be replaced, and the other raid hasn't even been beaten by many of the raiding kins out there, and so far the loot from there seems rather lame anyway.

Rather than releasing rohan as a level cap increase they could (and I think i would like it better) have released it as a large new area with new quests and soon to come new instances and a new raid. That way at 75 we would have three raids, 2+ however many are added six mans and 3+ however many are added three man. We'd also have a new mounted combat mechanic to play around with.

I'll be very surprised if they don't release new instances and a new raid soon after Rohan's release. If they don't, I'll agree - it's going to become a problem. But since we have 10 levels to gain, new areas to explore, and a War Steed to create and fashion - I'm just saying I don't think it's that important that the instances be released immediately with the expansion. As long as they do come within a reasonable time-frame, I think it'll be fine.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I'll be very surprised if they don't release new instances and a new raid soon after Rohan's release. If they don't, I'll agree - it's going to become a problem. But since we have 10 levels to gain, new areas to explore, and a War Steed to create and fashion - I'm just saying I don't think it's that important that the instances be released immediately with the expansion. As long as they do come within a reasonable time-frame, I think it'll be fine.

They will have new instaces and a raid before the end of the year. The point I was trying to make is that when mirkwood came out the previous raids and instances were not obsolete. In face some of them still contained the best gear in the game. By raising the level cap 10 levels you make the old raids and instances obsolete to end game players.

I would prefer a system where levelling wasn't a part of new xpansions, but rather more content that focused on instances and perhaps a new mechanic here and there instead of levelling. I really couldnt care less about levelling or how i get there. I'm at the point where i dont even read most of the quests before I go and do them. The only reason I level is to get to cap so I can start gearing out my toon and doing instances. This is also why Im not excited for mounted combat. Its a new mechanic that I will be using for levelling, which I usually try to just blow through as quick as possible, and the new "end game" warbands. I'm not interested in those. I want instances and raids so that i can face a challenge in the game.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

As long as they do come within a reasonable time-frame, I think it'll be fine.

For end-game focused players, a level cap increase and the associated grind will only last so long, for me, I doubt I'll be occupied more than a week or two.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

After reading your posts it sounds more like to me your main issue is with increasing level caps and the whole level-based system in general, rather this expansion specifically.

Nah, it's not that. It's not even necessarily this expansion specifically.
It's partly the whole concept of making the vast majority of what I've done in the past year (or less) completely obsolete.
It's also partly that the level-up through Dunland was about as much fun as eating paint chips. It was totally linear and not very engaging relative to what's come before.

I don't mind a level cap increase every once in a while. But at this recent rate, we're going to be level 155 by the time Mordor comes. There comes a point when it's just silly and more contrived than it need be.

Originally Posted by Southpa

Nah, it's not that. It's not even necessarily this expansion specifically.
It's partly the whole concept of making the vast majority of what I've done in the past year (or less) completely obsolete.
It's also partly that the level-up through Dunland was about as much fun as eating paint chips. It was totally linear and not very engaging relative to what's come before.

I don't mind a level cap increase every once in a while. But at this recent rate, we're going to be level 155 by the time Mordor comes. There comes a point when it's just silly and more contrived than it need be.

Well... I don't really agree with the way you frame it. I don't think level cap increases come very frequently on this game. I've been level 75 for what seems forever now.

I do however relate to your concerns about how the older accomplishments you've busted your hump for become obsolete with level increases. That I can understand - and I woudn't mind seeing them address that.

Final Fantasy 11 had an interesting way of handling this - by allowing you to upgrade your rare weapons and armor each time a level increase was introduced. That way your older gear didn't become "obsolete". It just served as a foundation to create even stronger gear as you gained in levels. I'd like to see a similiar system like that put in place on LOTRO. That could be cool, and would keep older content relevant.

Originally Posted by Smugo

For end-game focused players, a level cap increase and the associated grind will only last so long, for me, I doubt I'll be occupied more than a week or two.

Building your own War Steed should keep you occupied for longer than that Smugo, least I hope so. LOTRO is pretty good about introducting in-depth customization. I also read somewhere they plan on adding instances that involve mounted combat, so it would serve you in "endgame" as well.

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

They will have new instaces and a raid before the end of the year. The point I was trying to make is that when mirkwood came out the previous raids and instances were not obsolete. In face some of them still contained the best gear in the game. By raising the level cap 10 levels you make the old raids and instances obsolete to end game players.

I would prefer a system where levelling wasn't a part of new xpansions, but rather more content that focused on instances and perhaps a new mechanic here and there instead of levelling. I really couldnt care less about levelling or how i get there. I'm at the point where i dont even read most of the quests before I go and do them. The only reason I level is to get to cap so I can start gearing out my toon and doing instances. This is also why Im not excited for mounted combat. Its a new mechanic that I will be using for levelling, which I usually try to just blow through as quick as possible, and the new "end game" warbands. I'm not interested in those. I want instances and raids so that i can face a challenge in the game.

Well I guess all players have their own preferences.

I enjoy doing instances endgame too. But I also enjoy exploring the wilderness of Middlearth and leveling up. A lot of other players do to. So if they just focused on adding new instances and gear to grind, they would alienate a lot of players, so they try to give a mix of the two.

That being said though, I would like to see them introduce a way to keep older content more relevant, like the suggestion I offered in an earlier post. So I can relate with you on that concern.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Building your own War Steed should keep you occupied for longer than that Smugo, least I hope so. LOTRO is pretty good about introducting in-depth customization. I also read somewhere they plan on adding instances that involve mounted combat, so it would serve you in "endgame" as well.

You do realize this is little more than a new and improved skirmish soldier, right?
I could have maxed a bunch of soldiers on a bunch of toons - and that would have kept me busy for quite a while, sure.
But why?

Basically, you seem to be of the mindset that any content they provide should be enough to satiate us. You are assuming we care to level a horse and fully immerse ourselves in mounted combat for a few months (at least). As I said before, you're assuming we want to eat what they're serving. I prefer to occupy my time with matters a little more rewarding.

Here's the deal: some of us already know what we like about the game. Doing skirms and leveling soldiers was not fun for me. I don't see any reason that mounted combat will be any different. It's basically going to be a watered-down version of actual combat - on horseback. Whoopee.

I'm an end game player. I enjoy running instances with my friends and figuring out raids. Even RoI had Draigoch (yeah, but still). RoR reports nothing of the sort. This expansion has nothing for me other than a quest pack to help me get back to the end game. And then what am I supposed to do there? Run school and library? Chase wargs on my pony?

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Well... I don't really agree with the way you frame it. I don't think level cap increases come very frequently on this game. I've been level 75 for what seems forever now.

Heh, 20 levels in a year after spending over 2 years at level 65?
This is a sea change, fella.

What Southpa says is true for me also.

Turbine bets everything on mount combat with this expansion. The new mechanic we know nothing about. Not many of us wanted this, even less even thought about it. It may be an interesting thing, but what if it wont? What will Turbine do then? They will have a game without PvE endgame. Like without any sort of PvE endgame.

Is grinding LIs fun? Is grinding LIs endgame? No it is just a grind to get you ready for the endgame. For the real endgame. For now I cant understand what is so "wooohoooo" about that horse stuff. Looks like another boring grind with (im sure) new Store items to help us get through this grind faster.

My raid team was one week away from leaving lotro last december. If not U5 with ToO cluster we were done with this game. Now, without even a buggy drake... I dont know, AAA Level MMORPG 70 bucks expansion without an instance cluster??? Smels like a failure.

Some of the best raiders I've played with are also considering or have already quit or unsubscribed. Without even a hint of end-game content, what reason do they have to spend at a minimum $40? Mounted Combat?!!!? ROFL.... how is a burglar suppose to sneak around on a horse? It takes about half of their whole playstyle away. What about LMs and hunters who are rooted in place and MUST remain stationary for inductions? Will the horse have to stop running so the derp in the saddle can shoot?

Forget it... no way can I even attempt to make an argument to buy this expac. Who is running this show?

From the little I've gathered, it sounds like all your skills are going to be replaced with different ones when you mount for combat in the zones where it's allowed. Apparently if you don't buy RoR, you get a horsie with one skill bar. If you buy the xpac, that gets upped to 3 bars (more potential skills).

I don't know if there will be class-specifics involved or not - such as Hunters shooting bows, etc. The info that's out there and that has been talked about really makes it sound like the skill-set(s) you potentially have available are based solely on whether or not you bought the expansion - not based on what class you play. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My main is a Burg. He is a hobbit. I'm going to charge into combat brandishing daggers on my pony?
Golly, I can't imagine a more immersive experience.

I can understand that they wanted to get into the Riders part of it because it is Rohan. I also know that to pull-off mounted combat, they probably had to dump mega resources into it. That's all well and good and I'm sure some people will really like it. Granted, I haven't played it, but I can't possibly see how something like this will leave me satisfied. You can bet that because they're making it "the" gimmick that there will essentially be zero challenge to it. It will be a faceroll. I play games to be challenged and there appears to be nothing of the sort on the near horizon.

I will not pay even $40 to faceroll content only to find no end-game once I stop rolling.
I will grind lots of things, but war ponies isn't one of them. Especially considering the very minor overall role that your war pony will play should this game not die soon.