Thread: What happens to life-time subscribers?

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

I could be completely wrong on this as I didnt play it but didnt Guild Wars stick around for a couple years before it died out? Like i said though i could be way off I've just heard that before.

Even if it doesn't last though I'd rather take my money to a new game rather than paying for an xpac that includes mounted combat (which to me is just a gimmick, i could care less about fighting as or with a horse) and a quest pack.

I'm not saying not to play GW2. I'm loving it (as much as you can learn about a game in a weekend beta) - I'm just saying when it comes out, it will be trashed soundly - because every game is trashed soundly. Therefore, figuring out what complaints here are valid, & which are not, isn't easy.

As for this expansion, I love Rohan. It's one of my favorite parts of the book, & always has been. I love horses - mounted combat will be a joy for me.


eta: Oh, ya. The 70$ horse should be high speed. It's totally worthless as it is - and it looks pretty much the same as the old one.

My point was just this, if LOTRO really developed an outstanding and polished expansion with an Instance cluster, mounted combat and everything else that could make Rohan truly the Expansion of the Year then all those other titles might not be doing as well in the sales department as they are right now...

Just sayin...

Problem is Turbines business model does not work and its now f2p/premium players that will pay for it, beforehand it was lifetime/vip that payed for it.

When the game launched lifetime memberships gave turbine a massive influx of cash but after moria ect the lifetime memberships started becoming a none entity as regards revenue, while there were still vip subscriptions they did not produce enough income. Then f2p was introduced and suddenly loads of new players and lots of new income started rolling in, then the li revamps and dubious store content namely relic removal scrolls and lots more money started rolling in as people needed the relics back or just refused to count them as disposable which turbine ofc had hoped for all along.

However what happened next and what turbine did not see and is paying for now is the fact the f2p people and infact alot of subscribers just dropped there subscriptions and went premium, as stated by loads of people you can pretty much get all game content besides freep pvp for about 120 euro, picking sales ect, in fact what turbine did was reintroduce lifetime memberships by the back door and at a fraction of the origonal cost.

Roll on ROI and turbine tested the waters to see if they could get away with a expansion without instances and found out they could not as the playerbase was not happy, so suddenly yes there are delayed instances and suddenly you can have them free if you buy the expansion for cash.

ROI was a disaster for turbine if you ask me, bugged to hell with a overtuned and bugged raid resulting in there major cash cow relic removal scrolls taking a hit as hardly anybody was using them to upgrade anything because first age's were so hard to get, turbines solution to this was to introduce first age's by the back door with another store purchase star lit crystals to try claw back some money from the playerbase.

Now comes to ROR and we see it switching again but this time its the f2p/premium players they are trying to screw more so than the vip's with instance cluster for sale in some random update afterwards and increasing the price on the expansions without giving anything like TP's...ofc there not gonna give you tp's with the expansions, there whole business model is to get you to buy them, hence the reduced price bundle with any purchase ect.

Turbine have put themselves in this mess with there leaky bucket marketing strategy, instead of tyring to keep the players thay had and be content ever since f2p the players have been going in one end and out the other however any that do stay have played the system enough to be playing basicaly a free game at a much reduced price to the origonal founders/lifetime members.

They have no clue what they are doing, they marketing department is incompetent, there customer service department is none exsistant and there legal department has no clue that Turbine even sells its products outside the USA because if they did they would realise that every single EU subscriber has grounds for a refund on ROR at this point no questions asked because Turbine have broken EU regulations on Distance selling, thats not even mentioning the false advertising in the FAQ.

At this point Turbine are walking a fine line as regards breaking there VIP/lifetime agreements as to if this is really nothing but a quest pack and I'm sure if a challenege was made at this point Turbine could be in a alot of trouble, refunding lifetime memberships for breach of contract could be very costly.

Turbine really need a Decent QA department at this time and to give there customer service department a good kick up its collective ###. Remember we don't all live in the USA which means most of the EU playerbase have rights which turbine thinks they can walk all over at anytime, they need to get with the program and start answering questions leveled at them as regards a service they are selling to EU customers.

And remember folks just don't buy it and that will send the best message.

Originally Posted by Mark_J

I'm lifetime (x3) and also have no problems paying for an expansion. RoR is not an expansion, it's a quest pack with fluff for an outrageous $70.00, or just a basic quest pack for an equally outrageous $40.00.

There's a reason why Diablo3 sold over 6 MILLION copies the first week and why Guild Wars 2 is heating up all the headlines while RoR appears to be receiving mostly negative or at best lukewarm feedback....

Same thoughts here, 2x lifetimer, but unlikely at this point to spend any money on pre-purchasing the expansion, unless I somehow get into beta testing it on Bullroarer whenever it's released there, and it sways me enough to spend that kind of money on 2 account, when I've got other things to spend money on.

Personally, due to the avoidance of the moderators in answering this question, I believe that the forthcoming Instance Pack will be considered a "significant update" and as such VIPs and lifers will be expected to pay for it, regardless as to whether or not they prepurchased RoR with cash or from the TS. I cannot currently think of any other reason why no one from Turbine has said that this is not the case otherwise.

That would make it $40 for a quest pack, ~1000tp for the 6th bag and I would guess a relatively low (to reduce the expected backlash) cost of ~1000 TPs for the IP. They might put it higher if they think they can get away with it and they are no doubt currently monitoring the forums to see exactly what they think they can get away with. So, as a minimum, it will cost about $70 for RoR to be enjoyed "properly" which is a lot of money for what you are getting. New games are less.

I could be wrong, but I cannot understand why they have not allayed our fears if this is not the case as someone must know.

Originally Posted by Podraig

Problem is Turbines business model does not work and its now f2p/premium players that will pay for it, beforehand it was lifetime/vip that payed for it.
...
However what happened next and what turbine did not see and is paying for now is the fact the f2p people and infact alot of subscribers just dropped there subscriptions and went premium, as stated by loads of people you can pretty much get all game content besides freep pvp for about 120 euro, picking sales ect, in fact what turbine did was reintroduce lifetime memberships by the back door and at a fraction of the origonal cost.
...

RoR offers are maybe faults but I don't think that F2P model was fault at all. They are still offering new expensive features.. premium wallet, 6th bag which forces Premium players to spend money. Then there are festivals with several items so you are forced to expand storgage/wardrobe.

I'm premium and I spent about 150$ and got most of the game. It was 110$ last year (TP + 1 month VIP + RoI), this year 40$ (TP + 1 month VIP). Now it looks it will be 80$ this year including RoR and I'm counting with 50-70$ in next years. There will be new features, questpacks and expansions.
It's less money then VIPs but it's not insignificant at all! This is 5 year old game which is expanded with just small expansions. As much as I like LOTR(O) I won't pay more money for it. Now I'm just looking for some RoR discount and because I'm more casual now I don't have problem with waiting..

Lifetimers have 500TP each month (6000TP a year)! You really cannot compare Premium to Lifetimers..

I think the ones who pre-purchased before they corrected the FAQ should get the instance cluster free.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

I think the ones who pre-purchased before they corrected the FAQ should get the instance cluster free.

Don't hold your breath, this is all marketing research, no posts from mods or devs on anything significant in the last few days leads me to belive there marketing department are just watching to see the reactions of the playerbase before making any moves.

Even there forum mods have been silent in recent days staying out of topics incase they add fuel to the fire by saying something or closing something that will further inflame the situation, unlike last years ROI debacle this time Press sites are againest Turbine also, while Turbine don't give a damn about there playerbase as they have shown they do give a damn about bad PR from press organisations ect and getting heavy handed on the forum like they did last year will only vilify them more in the eyes of certain websites that have been tracking recent events since ROR was announced.

Its clear even from the announcments section of the forums that Turbine knows the eyes of the media are upon it for this debacle, only 1 link to tentonhammers review from clover, no mention of massivly or other sites interviews because they show ROR in a negative light.

Soon enough we will start to see loads of insignificant features being rolled out in the hopes of swaying the playerbase to just part with there money like good little lemmings and forgvet this whole affair.

I for one won't be giving them another penny of real world cash even if they offer to send me my own personnal ROR gold plated edition with bells and whistles.

Regarding bussiness RoI was Turbine's great success regarding number of copies sold. It was connected with the fact that many F2P just joined Lotro and many (including me) bought Legendary edition with questpacks for 50$. Solo content was decent.. Real problems came later with bugged instances etc. but because of that 50$-questpack-deal I was ok with it.
The only thing that really made me crazy were lags with Update 6 - stable-horse/instance lags but this was not part of RoI.

RoR is completely different. Even if I was ok with RoI deal I'm not with RoR-expensive-questpack deal without instances. I don't belive that Rohan will be worth that much money. It won't be debacle but I guess Turbine would earn more money with "inconspicuous" 30, 40, 50$ pricing then "noticeable" 40, 50, 70$..

Originally Posted by Celestrata

All users can walk on the Rohan landscape, level up to 85, use one tree out of the three trees in Mounted Combat...

Mounted Combat in the trees? Who're we gonna be fighting? Evil monkeys? This I gotta see!

Lifetimers who are happy with the game and the pricing of the expansion should buy it. Lifetimers like me who aren't happy with the game or the pricing/content of the expansion will buy the quest pack for points. I'll level one character to the cap and wait until the next expansion.

Each year I look at what's offered and it seems to be less content for more money. SoM was about the least I'd accept in an expansion but it at least had a reasonable price. I just don't want to reward Turbine for products I simply don't feel are worth buying.

By all accounts if you Pre-purchase no matter when the instance cluster is now free and tied to the purchase.

Just to clarify since i was the OP, its not the issue of paying for an expansion. With 2x lifetime accounts, i have bought everyone offered so far, most of the times at the top tier. This expansion that is listed so far , doesnt seem to justify any cost to me , let alone the high-tier. I play dwarves, one of each class on each account. Dont like ponies/horses, but can understand not having mounted combat on goats. Actually, dwarves would really not want to do any type of mounted combat, which is why i was hoping , with this expansion , that they give dwaves heavy plate for those non-riders. And still dreaming about when Turbine wakes up and gives all races the option of making a captain of its race.

On a side-note, petty dwarves were in fact thieves/burglars, perhaps not the most reknown, but still a justification for that class.

Thanks for all the input, will be awaiting updates from Turbine on the "content" of this release....

Originally Posted by Podraig

As its currently advertised, you will have access to everything except quests and 2/3 warhorse traitlines, in other words as currently advertised you are been charged for a questpack.

Or another way to say it is those that don't buy it are getting a lot of parts of the expansion for free.

Can anyone tell us why the last two tiers of mounted combat are so good that we have to pay for it? Apparently, quests and the last two tiers of mounted combat are going to be the only things worth money. I do know that an extra pack and some TP's are included in the price, but, really, what is being offered really worth $70?

Originally Posted by Ayrolen

You're kidding, right? If anything, Lifetime accounts are a thorn in their side. I paid $200 5 years ago and haven't paid for anything but expansions since then. They've probably lost money on Lifetime subs.

On the other hand, lifetimers such as myself and whh, who are still playing since alpha three and beta respectively, have bought four top-price expansions (including RoR Legendary) so far, and will go on doing so as long as we're alive and have a nickel to our name. That must've paid at least to refill Turbine's coffee machine a couple of times.

And besides. It was a vote of confidence; we were expressing our firm belief that the game would last long enough to give us our money's worth. Which it did.

Originally Posted by Lestache

This is the question I would like to see answered as well, but more as it pertains to the Instance Cluster (whenever it arrives). Will the IC be given free to VIPs regardless of how they purchased the "expansion", or will it only be given free to VIPs who paid cash?



I'd like to think that you're right about the Instance Cluster being free to all VIPs, but I'd be willing to bet that the click-through agreements that we agree to when we play this game state something along the lines of, "the terms of this agreement are subject to change at any time, and without notice," so I'm not holding my breath.

They will play it out to the effect that the instance cluster was part of the expansion just offered at a later date. So it will not count as a free VIP upgrade.

Like ObamaCare is suddenly a tax

Im a life time member and i dont mind paying for expansions. BUT i do want them to be fair. atm legendary rohan expansion makes my Isengard Legendary expansion mounts obsolete and cannot be used as warsteeds YET they are from rohan

but i bought rohan legendary in praying hope that turbine fixes this horrible error.

Originally Posted by Cherrio

Im a life time member and i dont mind paying for expansions. BUT i do want them to be fair. atm legendary rohan expansion makes my Isengard Legendary expansion mounts obsolete and cannot be used as warsteeds YET they are from rohan

but i bought rohan legendary in praying hope that turbine fixes this horrible error.

And if they don't?...

You already gave them the money...

I've got a lifetime account as well and I wish they still offered them. My wife plays as well and we wished we had bought a lifetime account for her as well. As it is, she and I play for about 3 to 4 hours together daily. It's the first thing we do when we get home from work.

We bought the legendary edition for RoR for both of our accounts and all the other expansions as well. Typically, someone that buys a lifetime account enjoys the game and the company enough to give that much money at one time because they plan on playing the game for a long time. The lifetime account when I bought it was worth it because it would pay for itself in about 14 months. That time came about 2 years ago for me. I will forever be glad that I bought it. I would say that most lifetimers will purchase the pre-order for expansions, other wise, why have a lifetime account. You aren't paying for a monthly subscription so why not buy the pre-orders for the expansions.

I will say right now with confidence. I consider my lifetime account as affording me the priviledge of not having to pay a subscription fee. That's all that I think it should be for. I can't tell Turbine enough how much my wife and I enjoy the game. It's perfect for us. My wife and I fellowship up and play runs with our kin and have so much fun. We would jump at the chance to purchase a lifetime account for her as well and we always plan on purchasing the "legendary editions" of all expansions that come out. We love the bonuses that are granted with all the pre-orders.

Our characters are inhabitants of the Firefoot server in the Dragonborn kin. Long live Turbine and their license to produce LoTRO content.

I always purchase the legendary expansions so that i get more stuff and have access to all the stuff. Being a lifetime founder doesnt mean you get expansions for free i wish people would stop asking that lol, gets annoying we always knew that when we became lifetime membership. Ive been playing since the first day of closed beta in 2006 and when i got my lifetime i knew the expansions where not free that was not a problem with me i always set aside real money to buy them knowing there will be more expansions.

I have always felt privaleged to have a lifetime membership and never taken it for grants as i have always felt the honor of knowing i have been here this long and am so loyal to this game.

And the gifts we get i always thought where appropriate just wish we could get a higher lvl cloak once in a while as a gift that would be nice.

I always love opening the gifts in my inventory its like xmas at times lol so i always have appreciated being a lifetime founder vip.

Only thing i wished was us founders had been given that special title back then they tried to give us but guess something glitched and some of us got it and others didnt and i was one that never got mine but no big deal lol.

As i know being a lifetime founder vip myself its just an honor to be playing this game and being here this long

thanks, turbine

Originally Posted by dori_bolger

As a lifetime subscription holder all I can say is I have no problem paying for expansions. I'm just happy to avoid the ongoing monthly fees; thank you Turbine!

Me too. I use the TP allowance for fun fluff, and pay for the expansions with dollars. Legendary this time; the level depends on how much spare change I have at the time.

Originally Posted by Podraig

Don't hold your breath, this is all marketing research, no posts from mods or devs on anything significant in the last few days leads me to belive there marketing department are just watching to see the reactions of the playerbase before making any moves.

Even there forum mods have been silent in recent days staying out of topics incase they add fuel to the fire by saying something or closing something that will further inflame the situation, unlike last years ROI debacle this time Press sites are againest Turbine also, while Turbine don't give a damn about there playerbase as they have shown they do give a damn about bad PR from press organisations ect and getting heavy handed on the forum like they did last year will only vilify them more in the eyes of certain websites that have been tracking recent events since ROR was announced.

Its clear even from the announcments section of the forums that Turbine knows the eyes of the media are upon it for this debacle, only 1 link to tentonhammers review from clover, no mention of massivly or other sites interviews because they show ROR in a negative light.

Soon enough we will start to see loads of insignificant features being rolled out in the hopes of swaying the playerbase to just part with there money like good little lemmings and forgvet this whole affair.

I for one won't be giving them another penny of real world cash even if they offer to send me my own personnal ROR gold plated edition with bells and whistles.

There is no way I would post in the tread if I mod after reading reading some of these post here. They do care about the playerbase. But if your not going to buy the expansion then you will never know.