Thread: New content - new names - free rename vouchers

This is not about people who violate the naming policy in Lotro.

This is for the (rare?) case that a player uses a valid name, but the Devs add NPCs to the game later with the same name.
In this case the players using the same name should get a free rename voucher for their char.
After all it's not their fault that their name becomes illelgal.

AFAIK, characters with names of later added NPCs are not forced to rename. I know one such person, though I don't think she's played in a while, so can't say with 100% certainty that nothing's changed since then, but I do know she had the name long before, and long after, an NPC of the same name was introduced.

I'm presuming this thread started as a result of someone relating their experience of this exact situation.

I think if you have been using a name, and it gets changed because of the introduction of a significant NPC as part of a new xpac/quest pack, then I'd say it's pretty much a given that you should get a free rename to something of your choice, not merely what a name generator comes up with.

I figure the OP is referring to this thread: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...e-Force-Rename

Where an established player was recently (within a few days, as of this posting) forcibly renamed with no explanation offered at the time of renaming, and given an randomly generated name.

To be honest, this quite deeply bothers me. I've chosen a name that is very appropriate, based on Anglo-saxon inspirations. Tolkien based his Rohan also upon Anglo-Saxon inspirtations. I wonder if I will also one day wake up to find my name taken away. It is the same name and same character I've been using since February 2008 (I've never "rerolled" him).

They used to give a free rename token, but WB's took over and it was added to the store

1. at patch run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. send a rename token. ; Add these names to the list of names forbidden to players.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

Originally Posted by Crell_1

1. at patch run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. send a rename token. ; Add these names to the list of names forbidden to players.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

Originally Posted by tomiathon

AFAIK, characters with names of later added NPCs are not forced to rename.

I can't elaborate due to GM interactions (none of which involve my account), but I know firsthand that people have been forced to rename if a new NPC shares their name.

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

I know of an instance--not in LoTRO--where Turbine did that. Someone had a character name in AC that Turbine wanted to use for a mob type, in the form of "<color> <mob-type>". In the end, Turbine used a different color adjective.

I also know of a character in LoTRO whose name is identical to an NPC that was added later, except for the presence of an accent on one letter (the NPC has it, the player character doesn't). That sort of "dodge" would allow Turbine to use very similar, but not identical, names to ones that players have already picked.

On the whole...

/signed

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

/signed

I don't imagine that it happens all that often, but when it does, it's certainly not the player's fault that a name which may have been perfectly legitimate for years suddenly becomes a violation of the naming rules. And as Fortinobrand said, the player may be well-known on their server. They've done nothing wrong and really don't deserve to be punished.

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

Normally I'd agree, but since every NPC name has to get approved by the Tolkien estate this presents an annoying challenge. You have to reserve the names before you go to the estate to get them confirmed. Take them back out of the database if it turns out they weren't approved, etc.

I'd be sympathetic to the player and make some attempt to give them something for their trouble, but there's only so many good fitting lore-appropriate names out there and I imagine that whatever algorthm they used for the random name generator..is the same kind of one they used for the NPCs. Collision is likely with increasing frequency to occur as time progresses.

It would be ideal for Turbine to search for name conflicts before naming an npc, and to immediately add the new npc name to the list of names not allowed for new player characters. But as we know, the ideal solution is often not the one implemented, and if Turbine for whatever reason is unable to avoid such conflicts, the innocent players who chose appropriate names should be allowed a free rename if Turbine takes theirs. That obviously does not mitigate the damage done to the renamed players, who have built those characters and all their relationships and perhaps even used the names in blogging or other creative endeavors. But it does prevent the added injury of requiring the players to spend money to get a name that they can feel comfortable with.

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

Sorry, but no. The game as a shared medium has to take precedence over individual customers, and if they had to look at all 28 servers for collisions before setting an NPC name, they'd have slim pickings indeed. They already spend tons of time picking NPC names (which must be appropos to the setting), and they don't need to adopt a process that will make that 10X worse.

My very first character name in beta was Erandir, and it's still my "alternate" forum name on this account. I was forcibly renamed by an Erandir NPC appearing in an update a bit before launch, but that's the breaks. As long as I get a free rename token, I'll be fine if they need to take another of my names... several of them are good candidates, if I do say so myself. But hey, I can always pick another. I've even paid 995 TP (once) to change a name I didn't like, even though I chose it myself .

Khafar

Originally Posted by Crell_1

Normally I'd agree, but since every NPC name has to get approved by the Tolkien estate this presents an annoying challenge.

The Estate is Chris, the guy who sues people for simply using the word "Tolkien" without his permission. The people who approve content are Middle-earth Enterprises (SZC), who have zero relation to the Estate.

Given that SZC gave their stamp of approval to Guardians of Middle-earth, I don't think they would particularly care if some Sindarin elf had a Quenyan name. I'm sure they would do a quick check for other IPs (and obviously against the books still held by Chris), but they most likely approve just about any name that sounds right for the race/region.

Originally Posted by Crell_1

Normally I'd agree, but since every NPC name has to get approved by the Tolkien estate this presents an annoying challenge. You have to reserve the names before you go to the estate to get them confirmed. Take them back out of the database if it turns out they weren't approved, etc.

IF names of NPCs need pre-approval--which I rather doubt is the case--they'd go through SZC/MEE, who hold the media rights to LoTR and The Hobbit, not the Tolkien Estate.

Originally Posted by Khafar

Sorry, but no. The game as a shared medium has to take precedence over individual customers, and if they had to look at all 28 servers for collisions before setting an NPC name, they'd have slim pickings indeed. They already spend tons of time picking NPC names (which must be appropos to the setting), and they don't need to adopt a process that will make that 10X worse.

I don't *think* there are separate database ffor each server, so a single search *should* take care of a name collision check.

While database searches of this type are quite simple to write--here is a sample that would do it...

SELECT * from <character-table> where <character-name> = "<target-name>";

(Anything in angle-brackets is a standin for the actual names needed.)

...the problem is that doing so on a live database has the potential to *seriously* impact database response to actual game play, and if you don't use the live database, the data will not be current or accurate.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

I can't elaborate due to GM interactions (none of which involve my account), but I know firsthand that people have been forced to rename if a new NPC shares their name.

They're currently only renamed if noticed /reported.

which I rather doubt is the case--they'd go through SZC/MEE, who hold the media rights to LoTR and The Hobbit, not the Tolkien Estate.

The who is not important, the process and its implications are. /offers the two of you who caught my SZC/MEE mistake a cookie.

Plus you have to impliment a 'reserve' feature to stop it from being used before the update goes live.

I've had a couple of uncomfortably close calls with names. Most recently, when my first OB character, Fristan, wandered past Frithstan's Camp.

Really, though, I don't see the problem with a player sharing a name with an NPC (within reason). Aren't there still some Minstrels out there with chickens at Sandson's Farm named after them?

Topic derailed.

I agree with OP. IF a name change is forced a rename token should be given freely... the name change that spawned this thread is a joke, especially the shortened version.

/signed

Originally Posted by Khafar

I'll be fine if they need to take another of my names

I think that's one of the major problems, players who lose their name due to the addition of an NPC are treated the same as if they willfully violated the naming rules and are given a name chosen by a GM and have to pay to change it to something else they like.

Originally Posted by Neumi

This is for the (rare?) case that a player uses a valid name, but the Devs add NPCs to the game later with the same name. In this case the players using the same name should get a free rename voucher for their char.

agree totally

/signed

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

Absolutely and well said simple and the way it should be done.
If the Name appears in the Works the IP licensed to Turbine that ZViolates the Naming Rules.
If the name is Lore appropriate and not in the Licensed IP then Turbine has no claim to it.

+ Rep

So, Turbine.

I see in the Ten Ton Hammer preview that Rohan will contain a village called Snowborn. Unfortunately, this name is too close to an existing name since a server called Snowbourn already exists.

So I'm afraid you'll have to rename the village to, oh, let's say, Blurgozaatsk. But hey, send me $15 and I'll let you name it something else.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Vilan

So, Turbine.

I see in the Ten Ton Hammer preview that Rohan will contain a village called Snowborn. Unfortunately, this name is too close to an existing name since a server called Snowbourn already exists.

So I'm afraid you'll have to rename the village to, oh, let's say, Blurgozaatsk. But hey, send me $15 and I'll let you name it something else.

You're welcome.

Wait I thought they would have to rename the server....Adds more confusion that way and thats what Turbine does best.

I think turbine should make renaming easier for everyone, period. Having it in the lotro store, I think, would be a good idea and anytime someone is forced to change their names, all turbine has to do is to give them a free rename voucher or whatever. Idk I haven't looked into renaming yet so I don't know if this is already in there or not.

Originally Posted by FunkyGroovy

Having it in the lotro store, I think, would be a good idea and anytime someone is forced to change their names, all turbine has to do is to give them a free rename voucher or whatever.

This is exactly the problem.

When renames were not in the store, Turbine did give out free rename credits.
Now that renames are in the store, Turbine will not give out free rename credits.

/signed

need more words

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

This is exactly the problem.

When renames were not in the store, Turbine did give out free rename credits.
Now that renames are in the store, Turbine will not give out free rename credits.

I do believe it was about $$, but far more about reducing costs than about increasing revenues. They always had a naming service for $10 a pop. Back when you got a free rename, that didn't serve as a very effective deterrent... people could get a "freebie" rename, so why not roll the dice on something over the line? All it would cost you is picking a different name later, and only if you were reported.

Now that it costs actual money to be renamed, people might just work a bit harder to avoid running afoul of the naming policy, and it probably saves GMs a lot of time. Of course they could always fall back to the policy they had in Asheron's Call, where people who were way over the line simply had their character deleted... that provides a remarkable deterrent.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Khafar

I do believe it was about $$, but far more about reducing costs than about increasing revenues. They always had a naming service for $10 a pop. Back when you got a free rename, that didn't serve as a very effective deterrent... people could get a "freebie" rename, so why not roll the dice on something over the line? All it would cost you is picking a different name later, and only if you were reported.

They could have just as easily achieved the same effect by not giving free rename credits to those who violated the COC.

And really, since there's no technical issue with characters sharing NPC names, why not just lock new players from creating the name and be done with it? What do they gain by renaming characters who share the same name as some obscure NPC?

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

No.

1. at development run a database check on the NPCs, on the player names. If there are any collisions. change the npc name.
2. Continue unimpeded until the next patch...

If a player is using a lore-appropriate name that is not to be found in Tolkien's works, then they beat Turbine to it. Pick another name for the NPC, don't make a player who has established an in-game identity and done nothing wrong change theirs.

I agree with this.

Character names are our identities. If I had mine stolen like that I would simply quit this game is utter disgust.

Originally Posted by whheydt

While database searches of this type are quite simple to write--here is a sample that would do it...

SELECT * from <character-table> where <character-name> = "<target-name>";

...

...the problem is that doing so on a live database has the potential to *seriously* impact database response to actual game play, and if you don't use the live database, the data will not be current or accurate.

Surely a similar query needs to be run every time someone creates a character, or even sends a tell? If running a simple SELECT query impacts gameplay, Turbine have bigger issues than picking NPC names...

Originally Posted by Rawling

Surely a similar query needs to be run every time someone creates a character, or even sends a tell? If running a simple SELECT query impacts gameplay, Turbine have bigger issues than picking NPC names...

He was talking about the process of creating a new NPC.

1. Chose a name

once it goes live:
2. put the name on the "reserved" list (and variations of it if necessary).
3. run the query for the newly reserved names.
4. give these players a free rename token
5. rename the players

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

And really, since there's no technical issue with characters sharing NPC names, why not just lock new players from creating the name and be done with it? What do they gain by renaming characters who share the same name as some obscure NPC?

I presume it's listed as the very first item in their Naming Policy for a reason. I can think of three possibilities:

• Uniform enforcement is easier (and therefore less costly) to do than selective enforcement. In this case, it's actually fully automatable, although I don't know if they've done so or not.
• It might confuse the chat system. At one point, I believe they were considering letting players whisper to nearby NPCs and get replies, although that doesn't seem to have been added yet, and it doesn't seem likely it will at this point.
• Unlikely: it's just a carry-over policy from Asheron's Call, where they actually had players running scams by creating "fake" NPCs with names similar to real ones. In that game, you'd give your quest items or money to an NPC, and a player could take them just as well...

Personally, I don't have a problem with them "taking" names to use in the game, even if it's one of mine - that's happened already. What I have a problem with is charging people $$ who lose their name that way to get another name that they like.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Unique

I think that's one of the major problems, players who lose their name due to the addition of an NPC are treated the same as if they willfully violated the naming rules and are given a name chosen by a GM and have to pay to change it to something else they like.

This is what bothers me. The policy needs to be changed.