Thread: Axing SotD Legendary

SotD has been the Luigi next to the OS and IDoME Marios as far as our legendaries go. It's an awesome legendary, don't get me wrong, but it's time for SotD to become a class skill, and have something else take it's place.

There is only one thing in the game that's extremely obvious to be promoted to legendary trait status - the only set bonus that has reappeared every time we get a new level cap, and one that needs to be permanently retired from gear.

That's right, it's time to pull the accursed -20% Defeat Response Cooldown OFF of all armor sets that bear it, and promote it to a legendary trait. It's time to end the 6 second RC haves and have nots. It's time for person in charge of captain set itemization to GIVE US A NEW SET BONUS ALREADY.

/signed

SotD is a nice skill but so undervalued right now because it eats up a legendary slot which cannot be used to make the DPS race easier (so far all challenges except maybe acid are DPS races, and turning that into a DPS race makes it easier!).

Turning it into a class skill maybe affected by a normal trait or boosted by HoH/Tanking capstone would be a good solution.
Heck I'dd still take it if they buffed it but made it share CD with IHW, at least it has its situational use!

I like how you picked up on that and proposed to move the always-recurring set bonus defeat response CD to a legendary trait to open up more versatility to new and refreshing set bonuses.

I rather like SoTD. Never used to use it much, but now use it all the time in Moors.
Dump it on the guy who is focus fired, and you can fairly often save them.
Also is great if you are main healing and occasionally can't keep up with spike damage.

But yeah, if they replaced Fighting Withdrawl with SoTD as an ordinary skill would be a happy day
for me. Times I need to dump *unwanted* aggro are so few that I generally forget that
I have that skill on my quickslot bar when the rare need arises.

As to 6s rallying cry, I'd love to see RC changed around some anyway. Wouldn't mind seeing
its minimum cooldown at 20s. Would love to see some rethinking of it, e.g. you can use RC
on demand. RC without defeat event gives 50% effect, RC consuming defeat event gives 100%
effect would force some choices on you. And say Now for Wrath only works if it is used on a
defeat event. I'm in general not so happy that so much focus is on RC (most Captains invest
2 dedicated legacies and Now for Wrath). The WoC legacies are much less impactful.

The -20% defeat response CD armor isn't so bad on a 3-set bonus. It allows for some customization, and it means you can drop it when you get to the boss without actually leaving the instance. I do hate that it's on Moors armor and thus unaccessible to a lot of people. Should have been Draigoch set #2.

But yeah, I'd take the change you're suggesting. -20% defeat response is something I swap on and off depending on the situation, and I'd do the same if it were a legendary. But it just means some other legendary's gonna be left out frequently. Like the only time we'll see all the other non capstone legendaries at once is on a rainbow captain in a low add density fight. Then we'll have this conversation again next year. But that aint so bad.
/signed

I agree with what you're saying about -20% defeat response cooldown--particularly Rallying Cry--but I don't agree that we need to mess with SotD. It's one of our truly legendary skills, and to turn it into a regular skill would likely prompt Turbine to give it the same treatment as other bubbles lately. If we HAD to turn a legendary trait into a normal skill, IDoME or Oathbreakers would be a better choice, in my opinion.

What I'd rather see is a full rework of Rallying Cry in terms of cooldown. As it is, everyone probably has at most 15-second RC---RC CD being one of the "must have" Captain legacies.

Reduce normal CD to 30 seconds, add a blue trait for -10 seconds, and make a legacy for -10 more (requiring the same number of points as currently). They could even leave the -20% CD and just fix it where they've said it's supposed to be--taking 20% *after* legacy. Some people who currently have 15-second would drop to 10-second, and some would jump to 20-seconds. People with the set bonus could get to 14 or 8-seconds, depending on traits.

All in all, whatever has to be done to maintain balance without having to lower the actual RC heal.

At this point, I'm not sure what they're thinking with that set bonus. They've said in the past that it was broken, and it was only supposed to be granting 12-second RC (it applies the 20% to the 45 second original CD, instead of the 15% legacied). If they put the same broken set bonus back in on Moors armour, they either have changed their mind on it being broken, or stopped caring and just wanted to use it as a push for more pvp.

Of course, asking for someone to look at Captains is asking someone to break us. We're in a great place right now, and if wearing Helegrod Armour for trash pulls is what I have to do to keep the destructive hands from messing with me, I'll do it.

Originally Posted by Frisco

If we HAD to turn a legendary trait into a normal skill, IDoME or Oathbreakers would be a better choice, in my opinion.

I was debating between SotD and IDoME myself.

What do the other captains think?

IDOME should be a skill and not a traited legendary skill. I am fine with going through the long process to get it, but it fits the normal role of a captain to bolster his fellows. SotD should also be a normal skill, I think of a WL as a captain parallel, they can bubble, heal, purge, banner, speed run, stance etc... OR I guess I would be fine with keeping IDOME as a Legendary Trait, but removing SotD from legendary. I know for my traiting style in the moors, I currently use Capstone for Red, IDOME, and Oathbreakers.. However if I were to choose what to keep as a legendary trait and what to make into regular skills, I would keep fellowship brother as a legendary and I would use it as one of the 3 I can use. Oathies I would make non legendary, IDOME legenday, SotD non-legendary, Capstone Legendary. I would break it down in an easier way to read, but dont have the time so I hope that this makes sense.

As a moors captain, i would only like to trait these legendaries: Capstone, IDOME, Fellowship Brother. However the captain is severely lacking if we cannot use SotD and Oathies, therefore I would still like to be able to use them... perhaps Turbine should allow us to use a weaker version if they are not traited. Comments on this idea?

Of all the current legendaries, IDOME is the real red-headed stepchild. Even when we do use it, it's never useful with more than one Captain in a fellowship, unlike all the other legendaries. Two SotD? Pretty good. Two Fellowship-Brother? Very good. Two (different) capstones? Excellent. Two Oathbreakers? OMGAWESOME. Two IDOME, though? Literally useless.

Also, I really kind of like having to choose between SotD and OB. If you're not in a DPS race and you're main-healing something, you probably won't have a chance to pop OB at an appropriate time, so you can justify not taking it. Or you can ditch Fellowship-Brother if you're running in HoH with Song-Brother (the power heal is nice but not mandatory) and take both OB and SotD.

So, if anything, I'd make IDOME into an ordinary class skill, but maybe that's just me.

Like some other Captains here have mentioned, though, I really don't like the excessive focus on Rallying Cry. It's our hammer, and instead of nails everything is looking like a defeat response cooldown reduction. Shouldn't we be asking for a set of screwdrivers and drill bits or something instead of ways to swing our hammer more often?

Originally Posted by furtim

Like some other Captains here have mentioned, though, I really don't like the excessive focus on Rallying Cry. It's our hammer, and instead of nails everything is looking like a defeat response cooldown reduction. Shouldn't we be asking for a set of screwdrivers and drill bits or something instead of ways to swing our hammer more often?

If -X% defeat response were a legendary, they'd have to find something else cool for set bonuses right? GC had really neat set bonuses, so I'm sure they could come up with other cool stuff to fill the void of no more defeat response CD set bonuses.

Originally Posted by furtim

Like some other Captains here have mentioned, though, I really don't like the excessive focus on Rallying Cry. It's our hammer, and instead of nails everything is looking like a defeat response cooldown reduction. Shouldn't we be asking for a set of screwdrivers and drill bits or something instead of ways to swing our hammer more often?

I don't think everyone wants to swing their hammer more, just reduce the variation in effectiveness of said hammers.

The difference between a 45-second RC and a 6-second RC is huge.

Besides, we have plenty of other tools already. Asking for more is like sending the devs a note:

Dear Devs,

Break me.

Regards,
Captain

Even asking for a look at our hammers is probably sending the same note.

I'm sure all the legendary skills/traits could use a refresher, not arguing with that. One thought I've had is, give us another stinking legendary slot.

At 75 (headed toward 85), we should (as the hero of Middle Earth) not suddenly forget skills we learned at level 50. Why would we forget the result of collecting rotting paws, worm bits, etc.

I think all the classes should have a 4th legendary trait. I will offer that we only be able to trait one capstone legendary trait, but we should be able to trait all the level 50 legendary skills.

I think another trait slot that opens at maybe 70 (?) would not be over-powering, and would have less chance of breaking the whole legendary system than trying to tweak old traits.

Just a side-bar thought.

Originally Posted by Lupini

I'm sure all the legendary skills/traits could use a refresher, not arguing with that. One thought I've had is, give us another stinking legendary slot.

At 75 (headed toward 85), we should (as the hero of Middle Earth) not suddenly forget skills we learned at level 50. Why would we forget the result of collecting rotting paws, worm bits, etc.

I think all the classes should have a 4th legendary trait. I will offer that we only be able to trait one capstone legendary trait, but we should be able to trait all the level 50 legendary skills.

I think another trait slot that opens at maybe 70 (?) would not be over-powering, and would have less chance of breaking the whole legendary system than trying to tweak old traits.

Just a side-bar thought.

It's a good one too - and something that should have already happened.

While I would like additional class slots, to many of those and we could go dual capstone, and HoH + LtC would likely be extremely OP.

-20% on defeat is ridiculous as it is. I still don't understand why most Captains don't see this. It is an unnecessary bonus that at times is completely worthless, and at other times pretty much breaks the crafted theory behind Captain healing.

Originally Posted by Arathain.o.

-20% on defeat is ridiculous as it is. I still don't understand why most Captains don't see this. It is an unnecessary bonus that at times is completely worthless, and at other times pretty much breaks the crafted theory behind Captain healing.

It's also a curse that the devs keep giving us.

Originally Posted by Arathain.o.

-20% on defeat is ridiculous as it is. I still don't understand why most Captains don't see this. It is an unnecessary bonus that at times is completely worthless, and at other times pretty much breaks the crafted theory behind Captain healing.

It also drops Shadow's Lament cooldown. Very nice in LtC indeed. More SL = more PA = more RC

Yes, it is unnecessary. But the combination of abilities makes it fun in LtC...

I could definitely go along with making SotD a normal skill instead of a legendary. What I would like to have along with that is the ability to use it on someone outside of the fellowship. If I'm in a raid, I should be able to use it on someone in another fellowship in the raid. We're still a group so I see no reason why I can't use it that way. That's one of the big reasons I don't normally trait SotD. It's basic effectiveness is cut in half in the case of a 12 man raid and only gets worse as the raid size increases.

If we're looking at switching around legendary traits, I'd be far more inclined to sign up to IDoME being moved to a normal skill - +75 to stats when people have 1500-2000 in their main stats is much less of a boost than the +50 to stats of 600 that is used to be (although I suppose it became literally useless eventually in Moria etc as more people were hitting the cap).

As boosts go, it's nice to give everyone some extra in their support stats, but I just don't think it's as essential as it used to be.

I've never really signed up to the 6s rallying cry either - surely if defeat responses are coming through that quickly, you're not needing to heal that much? (I realise that was probably discussed to death when the Helegrod armour set came out... I only got my cappy to end game levels fairly late on in MW, so wasn't really paying attention to the forum here )