Thread: Where are the war goats????

Title says it all, enough of these giant beasts they call horses....

Since we are above the ground, horses suit well enough.

Enough of these turbine creations called goats for riding.

Originally Posted by Felamid

Title says it all, enough of these giant beasts they call horses....

/signed
just don't make them available in the store for several k of TPs...

Originally Posted by Felamid

Title says it all, enough of these giant beasts they call horses....

Them war goats went extinct after charging too many times blindly in Moria walls or chasms.

I ate the last one for dinner last night. A bit chewy, but basically okay.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Aye, I was wondering this too, especially since the only store steed I've actually bought was the white goat. Hobbits look so much better on goats, in my opinion! Maybe it'll come in a later update :/

I want a big bull mastiff for my hobbits to ride.

War goats in Rohan?!? "Tis blasphemy!

Originally Posted by Himodhur

War goats in Rohan?!? "Tis blasphemy!

300 Dwarves on goats riding from western moria along isengard to edoras in the shadow... y not? ;D

a true dwarf only rides a goat

I have to admit that this raised another question in my mind as to the steeds for Rohan. Are Dwarves and Hobbits going to be riding War Ponies? Descended from the noble line of Mearas Ponies so often spoke about in the great Rohirric tales of old?

To quote Theoden to Merry

'But we ride on horses tall and swift,' said Théoden; 'and great though your heart be, you cannot ride on such beasts.'

'Then tie me on to the back of one, or let me hang on a stirrup, or something,' said Merry. 'It is a long way to run; but run I shall, if I cannot ride, even if I wear my feet off and arrive weeks too late.'

Théoden smiled. 'Rather than that I would bear you with me on Snowmane,' he said. 'But at the least you shall ride with me to Edoras and look on Meduseld; for that way I shall go. So far Stybba can bear you: the great race will not begin till we reach the plains.'

and...

'This is no journey for such steeds as Stybba, as I have told you ' said Théoden. 'And in such a battle as we think to make on the fields of Gondor what would you do, Master Meriadoc, sword-thain though you be, and greater of heart than of stature?'

Could he not give Merry one of his Mearas Ponies because he'd flittered them away on the thousands of Dwarves and Hobbits that had past through just days before? He must have really been kicking himself if that was the case.

Or, each horse could have a hobbit hunter mounted on each side in place of the saddle-bags, as defensive bow-turrets, maybe with a dwarf slung underneath as a ball-turret.

I'd like an Auroch war tank steed.

And I want war steeds for creeps. Or a cart with hobbit wheels pulled by dwarves.

Ask Tom. Such a beautiful romance.

about this I don't think is to hard to make, and it makes some sense, have you ever imagined a goat charging into you it would feel like being hit by a ram. we could get it in moria and ride to rohan. or instead make it just a cosmetic.

I'd like a war oliphant .. Trample of D00M ftw!

I still think that goats should be available inside Moria (and maybe Pit of Iron) only, and not in open landscape, but as that's not going to happen anymore I can only hope that devs NEVER make war-steed goat, even for cosmetics. It's ridiculous enough already seeing players mounted on goats riding around rooftops of Bree etc...

makes sense if Hobbits and Dwarfes could not use war steeds but the forum whining if that was the case - omg simply cannot imagine.

I just think a dwarf looks better in a goat than in a horse, I believe I'm not the only one.

Originally Posted by updradedsam3000

I just think a dwarf looks better on a goat than on a horse, I believe I'm not the only one.

there, that hopefully stops the disturbing pictures in my mind

but yeah, mounts should be somewhat appropriate to the race of the rider.

Originally Posted by DobbelB_EU

Since we are above the ground, horses suit well enough.

Enough of these turbine creations called goats for riding.

They never looked like goats to me anyway. More like Yaks...

Besides, this is Rohan. 'Nuff said.

Goats came in with Moria because they are (thought to be) more sure-footed than horses on steep rocky slopes.

Even though that isn't always true ... hands up, how many have had their goat plunge into the abyss?

But Rohan is, for the most part, flat. It's suitable not only for riding horses, but for charging on horseback into battle.

T. A. Shippey points out that the Rohirrim are very closely patterned on the pre-Conquest English, except for one feature: the Rohirrim ride into battle. The English didn't. They would ride *to* the battle and then *dismount* and fight. This was one of the advantages that the Normans had over the English, that won them the victory at Hastings.

And yet -- as Shippey also points out -- there's a line in the Old English poem now called Maxims I that goes: Eorl sceal on eos boge, worod sceal getrume ridan. "Earl shall on horse's back, warband ride in a body."

But Old English verse alliterates. There are four stressed words in a line of verse. The third word *must* alliterate with either the first or the second, or with both, and must not alliterate with the fourth. Worod does not alliterate either with eorl nor with eos. In any case, worod ("warband") is generally used to mean a troop of foot-soldiers. The corresponding word eored, "mounted troop", occurs only twice in the surviving Old English literature. Apparently the word was going out of fashion, as the style of combat it referred to had done.

It's easy to imagine that the verse had originally said Eored sceal getrume ridan, and had originated on the European plains from which the Angles and Saxons had come. And that some scribe, who had never heard of an eored and wasn't a poet, had thought "Oh, they meant worod," and written it that way.

From one word mis-transcribed a thousand years before and corrected by Tolkien in the twentieth century, came the whole grand image of the Rohirrim charging on horseback across the wide plains of Rohan.

In Real Life (tm), before useful things like aircraft came in, travelers would cross the Alps and other high mountains on the backs of stolid, sure-footed mules. Not goats. But goats are cute. In Moria.

(Source: T. A. Shippey, The Road to Middle-Earth (1983), p. 16 and elsewhere.)

Originally Posted by IbPalle

makes sense if Hobbits and Dwarfes could not use war steeds but the forum whining if that was the case - omg simply cannot imagine.

It'd be so funny, though... imagine there being "You must be this tall to ride in Rohan" chalked up on a board that was five feet high

Originally Posted by Hrodberht

Or, each horse could have a hobbit hunter mounted on each side in place of the saddle-bags, as defensive bow-turrets, maybe with a dwarf slung underneath as a ball-turret.

That actually made me LOL, enough to get me to log in and respond. +Rep to you sir!

There are examples in history of war ponies, so I think that makes sense. I don't think that a goat could ever run fast enough over the expanses of Rohan and keep up with horses for long periods enought to be useful. Dwarves are just going to have to suck up their pride and ride a pony into battle

PoniesThe British Army's 2nd Dragoons in 1813 had 340 ponies of 14.2 hands (58 inches, 147 cm) and 55 ponies of 14 hands (56 inches, 142 cm); the Lovat Scouts, formed in 1899, were mounted on Highland ponies; the British Army recruited 200 Dales ponies in World War II for use as pack and artillery animals; and the British Territorial Army experimented with the use of Dartmoor ponies as pack animals in 1935, finding them to be better than mules for the job.

I'm sure there are other, more ancient examples, but this is what I was able to dig up so far.

I knew this thread was coming.

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

I still think that goats should be available inside Moria (and maybe Pit of Iron) only, and not in open landscape, but as that's not going to happen anymore I can only hope that devs NEVER make war-steed goat, even for cosmetics. It's ridiculous enough already seeing players mounted on goats riding around rooftops of Bree etc...

I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by djheydt

In Real Life (tm), before useful things like aircraft came in, travelers would cross the Alps and other high mountains on the backs of stolid, sure-footed mules.

And mules were used as beasts of burden in mines. I have long contended that we should have been given mules, not goats, as steeds in Moria. Would people be clamoring for war-mules? I seriously doubt it. And that is a good thing!


[From The Lord of the Rings:]

Originally Posted by Aelfled

'But we ride on horses tall and swift,' said Théoden; 'and great though your heart be, you cannot ride on such beasts.'

[...]

'This is no journey for such steeds as Stybba, as I have told you ' said Théoden. 'And in such a battle as we think to make on the fields of Gondor what would you do, Master Meriadoc, sword-thain though you be, and greater of heart than of stature?'

A lore-based solution would be to give Hobbits a war-horse with a shield-maiden as the rider (ala Merry and Dernhelm/Éowyn) and Dwarves a war-horse with one of the (male) Rohirrim as the rider (ala Gimli and Éomer). Hobbits and Dwarves could hold on and enjoy the ride!

Originally Posted by Schreik

There are examples in history of war ponies, so I think that makes sense.

Consider, in particular, Hrolf Gangr, the first Duke of Normandy. He and his men were equipped with little Icelandic ponies, not as small as the ponies you see at pony rides (do they still have those???) or in-game, but smaller than standard horses. Only Hrolf was too tall to ride one; his feet dragged on the ground. So instead of riding, he walked. That's what Gangr means: "Walker."

Hrolf and his guys (along with a large number of other Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians) had been raiding northern France for years when finally the King of France sent a message on the order of "Enough already! I'll GIVE you northern France if you'll settle down in it and keep your cousins from raiding it!" "Suits me," said Hrolf, and so a meeting was arranged for the ceremonial handing-over.

All went well until the King's herald said to Hrolf, "Now you have to kiss the king's foot, in token of your status as his vassal."
"THE HECK I WILL," said Hrolf. "But you have to! It's part of the ceremony!" "Hmph," said Hrolf. "Hey, Olaf, kiss the king's foot for me." [Several paragraphs of sulfurous Danish are here omitted.] "Oh, all right," said Olaf, and bent down, seized the king's foot, picked him up by it, and kissed it while the king dangled in mid-air. And thus Normandy became, in essence, a Danish kingdom.

I don't think that a goat could ever run fast enough over the expanses of Rohan and keep up with horses for long periods enought to be useful. Dwarves are just going to have to suck up their pride and ride a pony into battle.

Good point. Note that Thorin Oakenshield and his companions rode ponies from Ered Luin to the Misty Mountains and you didn't hear them complaining. Not till the goblins captured them and ate the ponies.

Originally Posted by djheydt

Goats came in with Moria because they are (thought to be) more sure-footed than horses on steep rocky slopes.

Even though that isn't always true ... hands up, how many have had their goat plunge into the abyss?

I have even been plunged into the abyss from the stable goats

Originally Posted by Felamid

Title says it all, enough of these giant beasts they call horses....

I doubt the Rohirrim would be training goats for war. They are obviously useful in places such as Moria, but on the plains of Rohan, goats have only one use: Dinner.

Originally Posted by BellusDuFenna

...but on the plains of Rohan, goats have only one use: Dinner.

Goat Stew
2 or 3 lbs cubed goat meat
3/4 cup barley
1/2 cup dried lentils
1 chopped onion
2 to 3 chopped carrots
2 to 3 stalks chopped celery
1 small can tomato paste
3 to 4 large cloves chopped garlic
1/4 cup chopped parsley or cilantro
1/2 teaspoon crushed red pepper
salt and pepper to taste
Place all ingredients in a soup pot, cover with water and simmer until tender, about 1 1/2 hours. Serve with fresh whole grain bread.

Source: Walt's Ark

Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock

Goat Stew
2 or 3 lbs cubed goat meat
3/4 cup barley
1/2 cup dried lentils
1 chopped onion
2 to 3 chopped carrots
2 to 3 stalks chopped celery
1 small can tomato paste
3 to 4 large cloves chopped garlic
1/4 cup chopped parsley or cilantro
1/2 teaspoon crushed red pepper
salt and pepper to taste
Place all ingredients in a soup pot, cover with water and simmer until tender, about 1 1/2 hours. Serve with fresh whole grain bread.

Source: Walt's Ark

Exactly.

Those are not goats. They are horned hill ponies!

Maybe they will make a battle area whit war goats in moria

Originally Posted by Aelfled

Are Dwarves and Hobbits going to be riding War Ponies?

Yes, read here.

I did a double take when Silma did the horse deed, and learned about the 'Descendant's' heritage. 'Cause she's a hobbit, all I could think about was how the heck a pony could carry the blood of the Mearas... and decided to stop that train of thought before it got ugly or, rather, uglier.

If only because of that, war goats have my support. I'm not complaining about the ponies, just... I really, really don't want to get Silma's pony anywhere near Shadowfax!

War goats? Please God no, dirty, smelly, flatulent, wall-eyed things, having them running round everywhere would not be good. It's bad enough having Wargs about the place.

Having said that, for my dwarves I tend to use goats quite often whereas for my other races I don't (I am currently hobbit-free). The reason is not the size of the goat or pony compared to the rider, but the appearance of Lotro ponies. Whereas the horses look well proportioned, the ponies always look (to my jaded old eyes) cuddly, plump and dare I say it, cute. Wiki shots of the new mounts for RoR (which I assume are pretty accurate) seem to be even worse in this respect, maybe the images are not the most flattering?

It's not a game-changer or deal-breaker for me, I just believe something I am riding for the express purpose of doing something else harm should look a bit more martial, as if it was pictured in "Jane's Yearbook Of Fighting Ponies" rather than "Janine's Scrapbook Of My Little Pony".

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

I still think that goats should be available inside Moria (and maybe Pit of Iron) only, and not in open landscape, but as that's not going to happen anymore I can only hope that devs NEVER make war-steed goat, even for cosmetics. It's ridiculous enough already seeing players mounted on goats riding around rooftops of Bree etc...

This is the whole reason I have not picked up a goat on my captain, they are just silly looking and I'd rather ride a horse. As for war goats in Rohan, Rohan is the land of the Horse Lords, although the lore loves to be bent or broken, I don't think Turbine will put in war goats, at least not at launch.

It makes me giggle when people are against war-goats because it's lore breaking but don't see any problem with dwarves riding rohan war-ponies to war.

Originally Posted by Agtug

It makes me giggle when people are against war-goats because it's lore breaking but don't see any problem with dwarves riding rohan war-ponies to war.

I'd rather not have goats in the game, or Hobbits for that fact, Hobbits eat too much of my food, and I don't care for ponies either. It's the land of Horse Lords, not pony lords, or goat lords.