Thread: New Instance Cluster

That sort of thing is why I guess it's good that pre-ordering runs through September. I pre-ordered since I had a free gift card with nothing to spend it on... But even after that, I don't honestly feel it's worth jumping on right now until we have answers to these questions.

All I can really hope there is that they haven't said it because they don't know the full details yet. But that's not exactly exciting to think about either lol

I would honestly like to say that I apologize to my fellow lotro community. I preordered, I fed the machine that is Turbine. (they got me with the stupid bag!) If enough people do not preorder then maybe Turbine will get a wake-up call: Stop giving us ####! I think it is safe to say that the community is done putting up with Turbine's inability to listen to their community. "Powered by our players" my rear end. I hope Turbine reads this thread and listens to what people have to say.

My own suggestions:

1. If RoR is going to launch without instances, please push the date back. I think a lot of people (including myself) will prefer that. I know I don't want another RoI.

2. Why do we need mounted combat? It may end up being cool, but Turbine really needs to talk it up and show us that it is cool before RoR comes out. I personally think it will flop but I hope I am wrong.

3. I think this game has become more and more about end-game/grind and less about story. We are in Middle Earth for God sakes! This game should be epic in almost every aspect.

Originally Posted by Zalabar2000

1. If RoR is going to launch without instances, please push the date back. I think a lot of people (including myself) will prefer that. I know I don't want another RoI.

3. I think this game has become more and more about end-game/grind and less about story. We are in Middle Earth for God sakes! This game should be epic in almost every aspect.

How can you say #3 when there is a very high chance there will be NO end-game released with RoR? o.o

It is rational, at least from certain point of view.

Do not release instance cluster with RoR => people are focusing on new landscape content, mounted mechanics, epic, lack of PvMP revamp etc.

Then they are 85 and focused on regrinding old scaled content. Cheap, no need to invent a wheel again, just put new rewards inside. 5 remaining people who do not own sch/lib yet are complelled to finally buy Eregion.

After a month or something release your instance cluster, people are happily buying, because GB/sch/lib/skraids reminded them how much they want something new. And they have been prevented from consuming entire thing in one week.

Result? Players are not bored with cluster so soon = you don't have to release additional content right away. Give it another month or two. GR anyone? You can also slowly add instance rewards / equivalents to skirmish/rep vendors with each such small step so you can control progression of another group of customers and prevent whining after someone runs through quest/crafted/rep/grind chapters in a month.


So yeah, not releasing cluster is not that bad. Keeping mouths shut about it is not a bad idea either. For Turbine.

I'd agree with this only in one case - that we are not charged extra when the instance cluster comes out (if it ever comes out). I don't my waiting for content, if it means it will be better. If the new instances employ mounted combat, then it is a good idea to spend some time in landscape to get used to it. However, if it means I have to pay some $10-15 in addition to landscape content for the new instances, I'd rather skip one of the two purchases. Therefore, having more info will be decisive here; if the $40 price tag includes some instances later on, I'd be willing to say it would be ok. If it doesn't, however, I think I'll just use TPs to buy one of the two, or even both (I'm a lifetimer, so I will eventually get enough).

Im not OK with delayed IC. Face it, people would be at 85 in a week-two, three if they will read all quests descriptions. It took me three days to get from 65 to 75 (and remember that that time we had to grind skirmishes to get there). 10 out of our 15 raid team members were at 75 in two weeks.

Skirmish raids were fun as they were new in terms of a raid size. Draigoch was fun for the first week or so till we defeated him. All that gear grind fast became boring because like there wasnt a raid to use it.

By november we were so bored that people logged only once a week for a drake run. By december we were literaly 1 week away from leaving lotro but then U5 came.

I dont want to grind scalables again. I dont want to grind skirms again. And I wont. And nobody in my kin will, nobody wants to pay for such a miserable autumn once again.

Nobody in my kin was thinking about leaving LOTRo even a week ago, but now, after that superb pre-order where Turbine once again tries to sell us a glorified quest pack (for 10 more bucks that RoI) we literaly spent our raid night not with raiding but discussing where we can move on if RoR would come without IC.

Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me.

all now i see ever run is foundry, more foundry, foundry foundry foundry
ROI , ROI , ROI

nobody ever runs the 3 man for ROI instance cluster, so when ROR comes out,
all these instances are goin to be cobweb just like the enedwaith instance cluster before ROI

even when turbine scaled fornost, how many fornost runs get done in GLFF compared to foundry and ROI?

The instance cluster question is rather interesting tbh. There are two available options.

1. There IS an IC
2. There is NOT an IC


So, what talks for the different alternatives?

IF there was an IC included in the expansion it's one of the biggest salespoint (on par or larger than mounted combat), so not mentioning it would be a bad bussines move. Saying, "yes we've got a cluster planned but cannot say WHEN it will be released" would confirm option 1 and at the same time boost sales by a lot.
Now, if there was NOT an IC they couldn't say that since less people would buy the expansion. And saying there is when there's not would be false advertising they could get sued for is also not a good bussines practice. So a silence could be seen as a confirmation that there is NOT an IC planned at this point for the expansion.

No matter how you look at it, based on the data we have available I'd say that option 2 is the more likely scenario

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Result? Players are not bored with cluster so soon = you don't have to release additional content right away. Give it another month or two. GR anyone? You can also slowly add instance rewards / equivalents to skirmish/rep vendors with each such small step so you can control progression of another group of customers and prevent whining after someone runs through quest/crafted/rep/grind chapters in a month.

I could live with this IF they told us what was up and it was included with the expansion, similar to how the instances eventually came for ROI. It did require some pacing, but we all knew it was at least coming -- but keep in mind there, even then we at least could try Draigoch.

But not knowing either way is obnoxious. And I'd not exactly be pleased if a major, generally expected content type of this type of game is excluded from the expansion and then released a month or two later for another $20.

I'll say this to maybe put some people at ease. The original Moira announcement didn't announce any new instance clusters, I don't believe Isengard had any clusters revealed in it's first announcement. So Turbine not announcing instances in the initial press release seems more par for the course then out of place. Reality is Turbine never releases all their information at one shot, nor does any other developer. They've got to keep eyes in their direction for 3 months so they'll be drip feeding features through developer diaries and exclusive interviews just as they always do. They've got a few more days at E3 and months between now and release. Let's all take a wait and see approach before picking up the torches and pickforks, chances are we won't be anywhere near as ignorant on RoR's features next week as we are now and the price tag may seem a bit more justifiable.

Originally Posted by TheMadCat

I'll say this to maybe put some people at ease. The original Moira announcement didn't announce any new instance clusters, I don't believe Isengard had any clusters revealed in it's first announcement. So Turbine not announcing instances in the initial press release seems more par for the course then out of place. Reality is Turbine never releases all their information at one shot, nor does any other developer. They've got to keep eyes in their direction for 3 months so they'll be drip feeding features through developer diaries and exclusive interviews just as they always do. They've got a few more days at E3 and months between now and release. Let's all take a wait and see approach before picking up the torches and pickforks, chances are we won't be anywhere near as ignorant on RoR's features next week as we are now and the price tag may seem a bit more justifiable.

I honestly imagine we'll hear about a lot of this over the course of E3 because these questions won't be easy to ignore for long. I would be surprised if they're not discussing what to actually tell us about this stuff. Yes or no would go a long way -- which still leaves plenty for developer diaries.

But to me a strong difference is that they weren't trying to get us to pre-purchase Moria so instantaneously. I think people would be less annoyed if they just announced this yet weren't yet asking for money for it... and then more information leaked out.

But to handle it this way and not even address what anyone on the planet could assume would be the first question out of many players' mouths? I don't get that.

Originally Posted by semjaza

I honestly imagine we'll hear about a lot of this over the course of E3 because these questions won't be easy to ignore for long. I would be surprised if they're not discussing what to actually tell us about this stuff. Yes or no would go a long way -- which still leaves plenty for developer diaries.

But to me a strong difference is that they weren't trying to get us to pre-purchase Moria so instantaneously. I think people would be less annoyed if they just announced this yet weren't yet asking for money for it... and then more information leaked out.

But to handle it this way and not even address what anyone on the planet could assume would be the first question out of many players' mouths? I don't get that.

Well I assume it's because they have their major reveals planned out for at least the immediate future and I wouldn't be shocked if they had it all scheduled between now and 9/5/2012. Them saying yes or no to anything one day down from their announcement accomplishes nothing. If your stance is hard-nose not going to buy it no matter what then anything they say is irrelevant, if your stance in wait and see such as mine is they've got 3 months to change your mind, and if you're going to buy it no matter what then you've already bought it or are just waiting to set aside the cash. Breaking down and responding to such vitriol as this at this point in time accomplishes absolutely nothing other then making a few loud forum goers maybe feel better about themselves.

As for the official Moria announcement, I'm looking at it right now as well as some press sites who reported on it and really it gave vague information and listed the various packages for pre-order a lot like what we have now. Obviously we had information from before the official announcement but yeah, Moria's looks a lot like Rohans which is one reason there was so much of this when Moria was announced as well.

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree with your points. I think they could do something to get some good will back here, but as you say there's three months to truly decide if you want to hold out on it... I just wonder how many people will forget about it between now and then without that info haha.

Hey guys I want to start off by apologizing for being a little MIA the past couple of days. Between flying cross country and being in a little 10x 8 room in the middle of the mass of E3 craziness has put a serious damper on my communication time with anyone beyond the press. So let me set that right by giving you some info.

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped.

Rohan itself will be released with a new type of repeatable content.

We're not really talking about either of these things at the moment. Even the press is just getting a very rough overview, but you will be getting more information about both the cluster and the new repeatable content later this summer.

Obviously, with Beta due to start later this summer, there will be an opportunity for players to get some hands on time with the new content and of course mounted combat (which is being very well received by the press in our demos!). As with Rise of Isengard, a pre-purchase will get you to the front of the line for Beta invites (assuming an account in good standing of course).

Now, off to my tiny, cold white box.

Originally Posted by Sapience

Hey guys I want to start off by apologizing for being a little MIA the past couple of days. Between flying cross country and being in a little 10x 8 room in the middle of the mass of E3 craziness has put a serious damper on my communication time with anyone beyond the press. So let me set that right by giving you some info.

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped.

Rohan itself will be released with a new type of repeatable content.

We're not really talking about either of these things at the moment. Even the press is just getting a very rough overview, but you will be getting more information about both the cluster and the new repeatable content later this summer.

Obviously, with Beta due to start later this summer, there will be an opportunity for players to get some hands on time with the new content and of course mounted combat (which is being very well received by the press in our demos!). As with Rise of Isengard, a pre-purchase will get you to the front of the line for Beta invites (assuming an account in good standing of course).

Now, off to my tiny, cold white box.

*Celestrata sneaks over and slides food under the door*

Thx for the update Can we have some more global information about the instance cluster? 2 important questions:

- It consists of 3, 6 and 12-man instances (at least 1 of each of these)
- Buying RoR gives you free acces to the instance cluster?

Originally Posted by semjaza

I could live with this IF they told us what was up and it was included with the expansion, similar to how the instances eventually came for ROI. It did require some pacing, but we all knew it was at least coming -- but keep in mind there, even then we at least could try Draigoch.

But not knowing either way is obnoxious. And I'd not exactly be pleased if a major, generally expected content type of this type of game is excluded from the expansion and then released a month or two later for another $20.

Yeah, I agree - all I was trying to do was to rationalise this particular "marketing tactics" Turbine has been perfecting for quite a while. It is all acceptable and sensible - for them. And only if they are aiming at "buy immediately, it's LOTRO!" target audience.

My own point of view is simple: just one more reason NOT to spend a dime. And considering LOTRO is lagging/CTD-ing my PC up at random these days - one more reason to clean up HDD. Turbine will certainly not miss me, all I've been in 2012 = slightly more advanced NPC, artificial crowd for paying customers, earning & spending TP in-game only. Heck, that was my plan for RoR as well - but 4k+ for QP, probably 2k+ for cluster? I'd happily spend cash instead... but not on this - truly - obnoxious marketing team.


Edit: Hah, great time to be caught correcting typos But while I *really* appreciate an answer, it's basically what was predicted, so... no, thanks. I understand value of shipping content in pieces, but understanding does not mean I adapt this point of view as my own.

So if i read it correctly : Other then the 12-men skirmish raids and the scaled instances, there is nothing at the lvl cap of 85 that is considered Group play (6-man and 12-man)?

Originally Posted by Sapience

Hey guys I want to start off by apologizing for being a little MIA the past couple of days. Between flying cross country and being in a little 10x 8 room in the middle of the mass of E3 craziness has put a serious damper on my communication time with anyone beyond the press. So let me set that right by giving you some info.

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped.

Rohan itself will be released with a new type of repeatable content.

We're not really talking about either of these things at the moment. Even the press is just getting a very rough overview, but you will be getting more information about both the cluster and the new repeatable content later this summer.

Obviously, with Beta due to start later this summer, there will be an opportunity for players to get some hands on time with the new content and of course mounted combat (which is being very well received by the press in our demos!). As with Rise of Isengard, a pre-purchase will get you to the front of the line for Beta invites (assuming an account in good standing of course).

Now, off to my tiny, cold white box.

So after the release of RoR, but before the 'future update', raiders have NOTHING to do?

You might as well stop making the raid now, there will be few raiders left to play it....

Originally Posted by Mithaming

So if i read it correctly : Other then the 12-men skirmish raids and the scaled instances, there is nothing at the lvl cap of 85 that is considered Group play (6-man and 12-man)?

You know, you could (And really it would be the smart thing to do), wait until you've gotten all the information before going off and actually assuming anything.

So long as the instances are included in the price of RoR, I don't mind if they come an update after launch. I, personally, like the couple months to explore and level my characters and their crafting before I am put on the gear treadmill.

So here's one raider who will be sticking around. Rather, I won't be leaving over this particular issue--there are always other variables.

Originally Posted by Sapience

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped..

So, after last expansion's severe lack of endgame content you decide to release an expansion with even less content?

Each expansion is getting worse and worse for anybody who enjoys end-game content. =/

Ok... And do you consider at least removing the stupid weekly lock on raid skirmish loot?

This is just one big joke i guess!

Ppl will take from 2 to 14 days to lvl up to the cap and than you can just run old scalable content over and over again.

And again NO ANSWER IF PPL WHO PAYED FOR EXPANSION WILL GET IC/RAID FOR FREE OR WE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT TOO?

I see this little thing what Sapience just did as little pacifier to the crying kid. Soon the pacifier will be out and more crying will start.

What will be coming with Gondor?
Just wast space without any quests, 'cos that is trend that Turbine is giving us.

Sry, but this what you're giving us is not worth 40 to 70$

Thank you Sapience. Thanks for the communication. Im glad you guys told us very early this time, and didn't leave this question out in the open for months. We can't really say that this expansion's end-game is going to be bad until we experience it.
So now for the next question......
Mounted-Combat instances?

So basically..you haven't learnt from the mistake that was RoI?

Yikes. Second expansion in a row with little endgame instances at launch. Definitely holding off on preorder until we see what IS included.

Originally Posted by Beastnas

Yikes. Second expansion in a row with little endgame instances at launch. Definitely holding off on preorder until we see what IS included.

Little or you mean non existing?
If you dont count that by end game stuff they are giving us same old skirmishes only scaled on lvl 85?!

I cant believe this is happening, didnt Turbine picked up anything with ppl not being satisfied with RoI and they launch 10 more lvl without and instances/raid and call it expansion.

Only expansion here is in Turbines wallet.

Originally Posted by Sapience

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped.

This is a really bad joke right? Were stuck with skraids and overland quests until an update? Well... Thanks for letting me know that pre ordering is pointless so i wont waist my money..

We level.. we.... do nothing until the instance update launches.. cool deal..

Not really good enough. I'm not paying for a glorified quest pack. I'll wait until a bit more information is released to decide whether I buy or not.

Must say, it's becoming more and more difficult to support and defend this company.

I personally like the way content is being spread out rather than dumped on us in one big chunk. Gives me time to explore everything and get my crafting to max and then start a new adventure with the update. But then, I am a quester/6-man instance player, and to a much lesser extent raider, so I'm not all over end-game content all the time.
I understand for hardcore raiders who seek to max out their gear on day one, it is a disappointment that they have to wait (again), but it seems to me that the hardcore appetite is insatiable anyway. But for me, this way of releasing content perfectly suits my pace and play style, and I don't believe I'm the only one.

I trust the instance cluster will be included in the pre-purchase expansion, pretty much the same concept as RoI. I'm not worried, rather, looking forward to chopping off some orc heads while riding my new war steed!

Originally Posted by Sapience

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped.

Rohan itself will be released with a new type of repeatable content.

We're not really talking about either of these things at the moment.

If you're not ready to talk about it, why are you already selling it for $70?

Originally Posted by blosco

Ok... And do you consider at least removing the stupid weekly lock on raid skirmish loot?

Personally, I can't stand the thought of grinding those skirmishes again at level 85...

No instance cluster on launch. Only one new instance (around 15 minutes of fun) on a whole year.

40$ for... nothing.

This is a rip off and you know it. This is a sad moment for me and (i'm pretty sure) a lot more people. 5 years and maybe i'm saying lotro farewell.

Enjoy your "Store-Earth" Turbine.

Big slap in the face from Turbine to all but casual players. Gutted.
And you also have to pay them to slap you. Yay for masochists!

Originally Posted by Sapience

As with Rise of Isengard, a pre-purchase will get you to the front of the line for Beta invites (assuming an account in good standing of course).

Any chance there's a method to apply for an invite for those of us who haven't yet pre-ordered, or will you be doing strictly random invites for everyone else? (similar to the F2P beta..)

People would think Turbine learned what people want from RoI lack of content and variety of bugs. Everything after Update 2 lacks in quality and quantity. How can they release an expansion with no isntances and expect people to grind skirmishes once again? $40 would be ideal for an expansion with couple of 6mans and maybe 3 3man instances and a raid. Then some months later an update comes out with an amazing instance cluster and maybe even more cool stuff.
The fact is we don't even get the standards anymore. At least answer to whether those that pre purchase RoR get the instance cluster that will be released later. To justify the RoR prices.

Originally Posted by Sapience

Hey guys I want to start off by apologizing for being a little MIA the past couple of days. Between flying cross country and being in a little 10x 8 room in the middle of the mass of E3 craziness has put a serious damper on my communication time with anyone beyond the press. So let me set that right by giving you some info.

We are working on an instance cluster. Currently it is planned to be part of an update due to release after the Riders of Rohan expansion has shipped.

Rohan itself will be released with a new type of repeatable content.

We're not really talking about either of these things at the moment. Even the press is just getting a very rough overview, but you will be getting more information about both the cluster and the new repeatable content later this summer.

Obviously, with Beta due to start later this summer, there will be an opportunity for players to get some hands on time with the new content and of course mounted combat (which is being very well received by the press in our demos!). As with Rise of Isengard, a pre-purchase will get you to the front of the line for Beta invites (assuming an account in good standing of course).

Now, off to my tiny, cold white box.

Question: Will these instances be included for those who purchase RoR via TP in the Store?

Because as I saw it in the list of TP prices for RoR content, it says you can buy Riders of Rohan Expansion Content as an option. Note: Not RoR Expansion Quests, but Content, which implies more than just quests (i.e., you'd get everything those who buy the Base Expansion for cash, just not the bonuses listed specifically as coming with the Base Option.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like an answer to this, when you have a chance.

Originally Posted by Darethelion

Big slap in the face from Turbine to all but casual players. Gutted.

I think some brain-dead manager at Turbine/WB has looked at the numbers and decided casual players spend more money, so end-game players (raiders,etc) will be treated as second class players and probably aim to get rid of all those players so Turbine don't have to spend money creating raids.

Simple. Im not paying £45 for absolutely NOTHING. turbine get you act together befoere you lose all your fans...

Delay the launch of RoR and release a proper damn expansion. Seriously.