Thread: /emote: Branthil is down on one knee.........

BEGGING the Turbin gods to PLEASE, Please, please reinstate the Passive Accuracy Skills.

at the cost of what to maintain balance?

Originally Posted by Catisa

at the cost of what to maintain balance?

Nothing, because nothing was given as a replacement for the accuracy skills.

Originally Posted by CrimsonGrog

Nothing, because nothing was given as a replacement for the accuracy skills.

It seems to be the same the Moria expansion. In both Moria and Rise of Isengard Turbine determined our characters were over powered. Turbine nerfed our characters. The solution is increase Agiliry and / or Finesse.

The other issue is that content in Rise of Isengard is a step in difficulty. Players that are used to content prior to Dunland, often have serious survival problems. Your opponents hit a lot harder. I had to bulk on vitality on my Hunter. I had to make some defensive changes. It is very easy with the stat cap removal to end up with a very hard hitting Hunter - one that can only survive one hit - the second hit is going to kill. Often many of the hard hitting DPS class members - Hunters and Rune Keepers come to mind - can not score hits - One problem is that they do not have enough Finesse.

People that were used to Shadows of Angmar content found Moria to be a killer region due to the enhanced group AI and corruptions of opponents. Apparently, this issue is not a big deal in 2012 as it was at the end of 2008.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

The other issue is that content in Rise of Isengard is a step in difficulty. Players that are used to content prior to Dunland, often have serious survival problems. Your opponents hit a lot harder.

Surely you are kidding right? Dunland has been seriously nerfed since lanch and is an absolute face roll.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Hunters and Rune Keepers come to mind - can not score hits - One problem is that they do not have enough Finesse.

You do realise finesse has absolutely ZERO effect on miss chance right? Finesse effect B/P/E and resistance only.

Originally Posted by CrimsonGrog

Nothing, because nothing was given as a replacement for the accuracy skills.

Your DPS is sky high compared to pre-RoI days, if the only thing that changed was more missed your DPS would be down, not up.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

The solution is increase Agiliry and / or Finesse.

TI had to bulk on vitality on my Hunter. I had to make some defensive changes. It is very easy with the stat cap removal to end up with a very hard hitting Hunter - one that can only survive one hit - the second hit is going to kill.

If you could point out some suitable gear for non-agility based classes I would interested. I assume from the OPs sig that he wants a better accuracy for his captain. Are you saying that you are fine with non-agility classes being screwed as far as hitting targets goes?

Originally Posted by Catisa

Surely you are kidding right? Dunland has been seriously nerfed since lanch and is an absolute face roll.

When Rise of Isengard launched I had 7 65s, I had 7 65s. I took most of them thru Dunland early on. I haven't been back to finish the last two due to boredom. I wouldn't anything about difficulty changes.

Your statement (true or not) does not change the original experience of Dunland. Assuming it is true:

1) It is another example of Turbine dumbing down the game for folks that are not very good at the playing the game.

2) We do not need the passives back because the game is again set to Casual mode in Mass Effect. Or Baby in many other games.

Originally Posted by Catisa

You do realise finesse has absolutely ZERO effect on miss chance right? Finesse effect B/P/E and resistance only.

Correct in rule smithing but wrong in operation. The combat effect of Finesse is to reduce your miss chance. As such it is more powerful than the bonus we got for passives or agility.

Some numbers and example to better understand our combat system. Tantalus fires an arrow at an opponent:

1) The arrow goes wild into a tree via the Miss chance. I missed. Zero damage inflicted. Not going to kill anything this way.

2) The arrow is headed for a solid hit. My opponent Blocks, Parries or Evades. I missed. Zero damage inflicted. Not going to kill anything this way.

My Miss = Miss_Chance + ( (1 - Miss_Chance) x (Block + Parry + Evade) )

Here we have another case of Turbine being not careful in word choice leading to player confusion. You have fallen into the Turbine trap. Hand on I will get you out. I promise not to giggle at you.

Lets go further. I want to reduce my Miss. There are two ways to go about it. I use the following situation:
1) Miss_Chance = 10%
2) Block = 15%
3) Parry = 15%
4) Evade = 15%

My Miss = 0.10 + ( ( 1 - 0.10) x (0.15 + 0.15 + 0.15) )
My Miss = 0.10 + ( ( 0.90) x (0.45) )
My Miss = 0.10 + ( 0.405 )
My Miss = 0.505
My Miss is 50.5%

Pay special attention to the two bold terms in the second line:
a) The 10% Miss_Chance
b) The 45% combined BPE

I cut my Miss_Chance by 1% to 9%. What did I do.
My Miss = 0.09 + (0.91) x (0.45)
My Miss = 0.09 + 0.4096
My Miss = 49.95%

Sigh I only got 0.55% reduction in my Miss because of the BPE effect. The more BPE your opponent has. The less effect Passives and Agility have.

I add 1% Finesse. What did I do.
My Miss = 0.1 + (0.90) x (0.44)
My Miss = 0.1 + 0.396
My Miss = 49.6%

Better only got 0.90% reduction in my Miss because of the Miss_Chance effect. The higher you Miss_Chance the less effect Finesse has.

Lets do a better check. What percentage improvement we get by adding 1% Finesse instead of reducing the Miss_Chance.

(Finesse_Improvement - Miss_Chance_Improvement) / Miss_Chance_Improvement
(0.90% - 0.55%) / 0.55%
0.35 / 0.55
63.6% better to improve Finesse.

Hopefully you understood the numbers. Finesse is a much more powerful stat than Miss_Chance when you are trying to kill an opponent. Improving your Finesse reduces your miss chance faster than reducing your Miss_Chance.

IMHO - The poor naming of the stats is due to changes in the game mechanics. At game launch we could not reduce an opponent's BPE. That term was fixed. Turbine erroneously decided to use the term Miss Chance to mean two different things.

The game is full of these creative misuses of English terms. Where Turbine has taken perfectly good English words and phrases and given them a meaning that does not make any sense. We are left thrashing around trying to invent a different word or phrase to fill the hole in the dictionary.

Turbine had done a better job of naming stuff. You wouldn't be confused. We wouldn't be having this discussion. Many customers wouldn't be trying to solve the maximum DPS problem in an inefficient way.

I will come back later and check all my math and everything for accuracy. I've bound to have made a mistake somewhere.

A BPE'd attack is NOT a miss. Full stop. The end. If an attack is blocked, it is blocked, not missed. If an attack is parried, it is parried, not missed. If an attack is evaded it is evaded, not missed. They may have the same result of 0 damge but a BPE'd attack =/= a missed attack.