Raiding
A Raid is a separate copy of a building's interior, a dungeon, or some piece of the game's landscape. Raids are similar to Instances, but are designed on a larger scale with encounters for two or more fellowships of players to complete. The encounters found within usually involve Arch-nemesis bosses that can require complex strategies.
No outside help by other adventurers can be rendered to those within a raid. Doing so allows game developers a greater ability to customize the details of the encounters and makes them more immersing, allowing multiple raids to enjoy the same content without interfering with each other.
Raid Locks
Raid Locks are designed to prevent any player from completing the same stage of an instance multiple times in a short period of time. For example, Raid Locks prevent a single character from slaying Helchgam over and over again in order to get his slime. Endgame Locks generally expire weekly, meaning any character can complete a particular boss battle no more than once a week.
Raids can only be entered by players who are a part of the raid group and have either the same or "similar" raid locks as the raid leader, or no raid locks. If a player is part of a raid that completes a stage in the instance (usually a boss fight), then the player will receive a lock number corresponding to the number of the stage completed. As the raid progresses, more such locks are obtained. A few examples of how raid locks work:
Raid leader has locks 1,3,5; raid member has no locks -> raid member will be able to enter, and will inherit raid leader's locks.
Raid leader has locks 1,6; raid member has locks 1,6 -> raid member will be able to enter.
Raid leader has locks 1,3,4; raid member has locks 1,4 -> raid member will be able to enter, and will inherit raid leader's lock 3.
Raid leader has locks 1,3,4; raid member has locks 1,3,5 -> raid member will not be able to enter.
Raid leader has no locks; raid member has locks 1,4 -> raid member will not be able to enter.
To find out which raid locks you have, open the Social menu, then select the Group Stage Info tab. The lock numbers your character has are listed by instance under Personal Stage Information.
ToO Lock System
Lock 1 - Fire & Frost Wing
Lock 2 - Lighting Wing
Lock 3 - Acid Wing
Lock 4 Shadow Wing
Lock 5 Sarumon Tower
ToO Flags
1 Fire & Frost
2 Lightning
4 Acid
8 Shadow
16 Saruman
Obtaining a singular lock 1/2/3 will only lock you from doing them individual wings, once you obtain lock 4 this will lock you from doing the 3 previous bosses. The same is said with Lock 5.
When you join a group, and the raid leader is useing lock, once you enter the instance you will gain the same locks as the leader, once a Lock is applied you will need to wait until Thursdays rest / or untill we do the following boss in the current lock you may have
Useing the command /raid locks will show you a list of all locks you have, if you have a flag 0 this is ok, this means you have no locks you have been inside the riad but didnt kill any boss/ leader didnt transfer locks to you. It will also show the time that the current locks have before expiring
Useful information for those not familiar with the system.
A few things which it would be good to confirm one way or another, because I've personally had wildly inconsistent experiences with these things and different reports from different people:
* If you walk into raid A do you gain the leader's locks for raid B? I think not, but I've had people swear to me that they've inherited ToO locks from a Turtle raid.
* Why does the raid lock reset time shown in /raid locks seem to differ for some people, particularly as you approach the time when raid locks reset? Is it something to do with logon time or how long you've been logged on?
* What happens if you are in a raid at the time when locks roll over? And, relatedly, is it possible to engineer a lock roll over?
With the last question, I've personally had one of two things happen - either everyone is booted out and locks are reset or everyone stays in and all locks roll over to the next week. I don't know why this seems to happen differently at different times. Some factors which may influence it - being in a raid group at the time (instead of solo/fellowship), when you logged on (eg. way before locks reset or just prior to)? I know this seems weird, but I've had a situation where I was logged on for a while before the locks reset (DN iirc), I stood in the instance and got booted out without locks rolling over but then had another player log on after I had been booted out with the previous week's locks intact; I joined a group that he formed and he invited me into the raid and I inherited his old locks which then applied to the new week for me. So in short, very strange things seem to happen at around raid lock rollover time and I don't understand the mechanisms or what's "supposed" to happen.
Lore-mastery - A weekly column discsussing end game lore-master play.
If you walk into raid A do you gain the leader's locks for raid B? I think not, but I've had people swear to me that they've inherited ToO locks from a Turtle raid.
No, if raid leader has locks for the following raid - Turtle, DN,BG,OD, And has lock 1 in ToO, (the leader has been busy this week) he wants to do a ToO Lighting raid. he advitises on global / kin, once he has 12 people, he then opens the raid. Every member that enters will then get Lock 1, as the leader had that lock for that instance, no onther lock is passed, anyone he invites needs to have no ToO LOCKS, or Lock 1 to enter, any other lock and they cant enter
Why does the raid lock reset time shown in /raid locks seem to differ for some people, particularly as you approach the time when raid locks reset? Is it something to do with logon time or how long you've been logged on?
i dont believe its due to any thing a player does, i woudl say (IMO) that its down to a queue, when people on a server get for Exampple ToO locks, which resets thursday. The scedule for clearing locks is then placed in a automatic queue for a reset, This automatic system for reseting locks, is the reason (Maybe) that GMs cant help with lock issues (there was a bug that peoples locks didnt reset on thursday, and no GM (Even senior ones) could help with).
What happens if you are in a raid at the time when locks roll over? And, relatedly, is it possible to engineer a lock roll over?
i do not know this one, i would believe you would carry that lock threw to the next weeks rotion. i might try see this with a turtle lock (As the locks only last 1 day now). Iv seen people kicked from instance, but iv also seen them roll over. It may depend on if ur fighting u stay in, or if u just standing there might kick u.
On the hall tho, i would say the raid lock system inplace needs a tuneup. The current system his haphazard at the least.
They make a raid, that they want pugs to run (im talking about ToO here) and they dont inform all them how the locks work,
this is why i made this post. Due to the combonations of boss 1/2/3 that you can kill, or that killing shadow, locks you from 1/2/3 many people dont know
You will only inherit locks for Raid A if you enter Raid A with a leader who has more locks than you.
If Player 1 has locks for 2 Orthanc wings, and Player 2 has nothing, then entering Turtle will do nothing for the Orthanc locks that Player 2 has (ie they will still have no Orthanc locks).
I think it's important to stress that you don't have to beat a boss to inherit previous locks. If you hit Enter on the instance join panel, you will inherit the leader's locks, regardless of whether you're in there for hours, 10 minutes, and regardless of whether you beat the boss you came to beat.
Regarding the timing query, I think that the timers do not reset at precisely the same time for everyone in order to avoid a massive peak in processing. I believe that they reset at pretty much the same time, but the timers are staggered in groups to ease the process.
I've also heard similar differing stories regarding lock 'rollover' I've heard from groups that have tried to get locks rolled over that have all been booted and inherited nothing, but I've also talked to a kinnie who was in the raid on Thursday morning and kept all his locks from previous fights, so I guess this is pretty much an unknown. My guess is that rolling over locks would be considered an exploit, so it shouldn't happen, but there must be 'safety' conditions applied to ensure that things don't break that mean that it is possible.
These combinations shouldn't actually be possible to have due to needing to complete all 3 wings prior to shadow becoming available.
Yes i know, but in the intrest of informing the Community with 100% information, as if i missed out them people might of asked why they are gaps inbetween
A raid member cannot enter a raid when he has a lock for that raid that the leader does not have. Also, a raid leader cannot make a raid if anyone in the raid has a lock for that raid that he doesn't have.
In the example, the raid member has lock 5. If he had been able to join, he would either have given the rest of the raid the lock, which nobody would have liked, or he would have been able to kill boss 5 again, which Turbine wouldn't have liked. This is because there can't be 2 (or more) people in a raid with a different lock set, as that would mean one or more bosses would be alive for one of them, and dead for the other. And seeing as it's the same instance, a boss can't be dead and alive at the same time.
Why can the person not enter? Especially in the first case. Can't they just go do boss #2?
In order for these two characters to get into the raid instance, the raid group needs a leader with locks 1,3,4,5. The raid leader must have all the locks that the other members has. The leader could have addiitonal locks.
If were taking about colored pens - (1) blue, (3) green, (4) red and (5) black. No member can have a colored pen that the leader does not have.
Some raid instances like the Rift are linear, I don't think it possible to skip a lock. You are always going to be able to find someone to be leader because it is always the same order.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
Some raid instances like the Rift are linear, I don't think it possible to skip a lock. You are always going to be able to find someone to be leader because it is always the same order.
Barz and Zurm are interchangeable in Rift kill order (in practice however nearly everyone ever does Barz first.)
The only linear raid instance with locks that I can think of is Barad Guldur (apart from the lair raids with only one lock.)
Note, the solution to a leader having fewer locks than a raid member, is to toss the raid member lead. If that new leader has all the locks encompassing the old leader's, they open the instance, now everyone inherits those locks, tosses lead back, voilà.
(That obviously doesn't work if they have competing locks, in which case you would need to find another person who has locks encompassing both of them, and have that person open an instance so the others can inherit them.)
"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave
A raid member cannot enter a raid when he has a lock for that raid that the leader does not have. Also, a raid leader cannot make a raid if anyone in the raid has a lock for that raid that he doesn't have.
Apologies for the thread-necro, but I have a question about how to interpret the messages the game gives us in this situation. This must be what happened last night (after 90 minutes forming the group, ugh... ). We saw frequent repetitions of "PlayerA doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags. PlayerB doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags. PlayerC doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags" in the chat window, I'm assuming whenever the leader tried to click on the grayed-out ToO line of the instance join panel. When people in the leader's fellowship looked at our IJ panel, we saw a tooltip listing the other five members of that fellowship as being unable to enter the instance. The latter was clearly wrong, since in at least two cases (myself and a kinmate) we had no locks at all.
Am I correct in deducing that the leader had conflicting locks with players A, B, and C? And the fact that B was in the leader's half of the raid somehow caused the IJ panel to show the screwy tooltip? If I understand this correctly, the only way to have salvaged that run would have been to pass leadership to players A-C in turn to see if someone had locks that encompassed everyone else's and thus allowed them to launch the instance. Instead the leader passed it to someone in the other fellowship who also couldn't launch the instance, then we disbanded...
I think a lot of people, including myself, are used to ignoring the "doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags" error message since it usually comes up for at least one player in a Foundry or Roots run yet has no effect on our ability to proceed with such a run.
PlayerA doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags. PlayerB doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags. PlayerC doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags" in the chat window
All this means is a number of player have locks for somthing, if you are tyring to do ToO, and a player has locks for the watcher, on opening the IF this will appear, IT DOES NOT mean them players have locks for that raid you are about to open, many people believe this is so
every time i join a BG/OD PUG, 2/4 people say i cant go as i have locks, then i have to tell them there locks from other raids,
Member Online status:
Reputation:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Originally Posted by Tanz-love-cookies
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Member Online status:
Post Master Online status:
Adventure Organizer 2012 Online status:
). We saw frequent repetitions of "PlayerA doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags. PlayerB doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags. PlayerC doesn't match the fellowship's raid flags" in the chat window, I'm assuming whenever the leader tried to click on the grayed-out ToO line of the instance join panel. When people in the leader's fellowship looked at our IJ panel, we saw a tooltip listing the other five members of that fellowship as being unable to enter the instance. The latter was clearly wrong, since in at least two cases (myself and a kinmate) we had no locks at all.
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
