Thread: Wow - what a difference in the two ToO sets for captain

For my hunter the two teal ToO sets where identical except for the set bonuses. Captain they are night and day. Is one set basically a dps/tank set and one set healing set??

edit - I just notice there is a thrid set. LOL my poor hunter never notice this. I can't wait to see if the 3rd set is the one he would have chose.

What is the general feeling on the diferent sets. If I like being HH cappy is there one set that is best for this?

Well, there are 3 sets for each class--1 corresponding loosely to each of your 3 traitsets. Captains have 3 very separate sets--heal, DPS, and tank. All 3 hunter trait sets are fairly similar in that they don't need different stats to perform them. I assume the difference you're seeing in the Captain sets is that one--the tanking set--is more Vitality-focused, and the others are more Might-focused.

Originally Posted by tharkun3

What is the general feeling on the diferent sets. If I like being HH cappy is there one set that is best for this?

The Menestaid set is focused on healing--Might and Tactical Mastery.

Originally Posted by tharkun3

For my hunter the two teal ToO sets where identical except for the set bonuses. Captain they are night and day. Is one set basically a dps/tank set and one set healing set??

edit - I just notice there is a thrid set. LOL my poor hunter never notice this. I can't wait to see if the 3rd set is the one he would have chose.

What is the general feeling on the diferent sets. If I like being HH cappy is there one set that is best for this?

Menestaid is the designated TOO healing set. It suffers statwise a bit due to lack of finesse and by the fact that it buffs VS, with its limited range limited range. Lack of finesse on armor means you need to get it from jewelry, or get you will get BPE on VS/Inspire more than you'd like. Draigoch set is also a pretty good healing set, with nice 3 and 5 piece bonuses. Draigoch 5 piece bonus is only useful on one Captain, so in a raid no point in two of you having it. Some folks go 5 pieces of Menestaid for healing, some go 3 Menestaid and 3 Draigoch for the nicely synergistic VS bonuses, some go 5 pieces of Draigoch.

Also note that, if you are into moors, the 3 piece bonus on Perseverance set (giving 6 second rallying cry) can be highly useful in certain circumstances. Not so great in single target boss fights, but nice against hard trash where you get lots of defeat events and lots of targets for PA. And it goes well with 3 pieces of Draigoch in HOH, as you'll get more RC and thus more VS...

Originally Posted by tharkun3

For my hunter the two teal ToO sets where identical except for the set bonuses. Captain they are night and day. Is one set basically a dps/tank set and one set healing set??

edit - I just notice there is a thrid set. LOL my poor hunter never notice this. I can't wait to see if the 3rd set is the one he would have chose.

What is the general feeling on the diferent sets. If I like being HH cappy is there one set that is best for this?

The Menestaid Set is awesome for Hands of Healing Captains and I highly recommend it. Not only does it boost all the right stuff like Tactical, Crit, Power, Might, Fate - but gives you a cool Incoming Healing buff you can stack up to 3 times on your tank, which can add up nicely.

Great set and I haven't looked back since I got it. It's like a Hand of Healing Captain's wet dream. And I give kudos to Turbine for introducing specialized sets with such cool set bonuses. They really do deserve some credit for that - as a lot of MMORPGs (like SWTOR for example) have such lame endgame gear.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

The Menestaid Set is awesome for Hands of Healing Captains and I highly recommend it. Not only does it boost all the right stuff like Tactical, Crit, Power, Might, Fate - but gives you a cool Incoming Healing buff you can stack up to 3 times on your tank, which can add up nicely.

Great set and I haven't looked back since I got it. It's like a Hand of Healing Captain's wet dream. And I give kudos to Turbine for introducing specialized sets with such cool set bonuses. They really do deserve some credit for that - as a lot of MMORPGs - like SWTOR for example- have such lame endgame gear.

3 GC/3 Menestaid >>>> 5 Menestaid, cause of the VS HoT spam

3 GC/3 Perseverance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 5 Menestaid, 6 Second RC = win.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

3 GC/3 Menestaid >>>> 5 Menestaid, cause of the VS HoT spam

3 GC/3 Perseverance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 5 Menestaid, 6 Second RC = win.

In your opinion

Originally Posted by Jeremi

In your opinion

No, by metrics of HPS. That combination of set bonuses can put out more healing.

But he left out that those are under specific circumstances. That is, times where you are fed defeat responses (trash pulls, or even when a minstrel plays you Song of Aid).

Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer

No, by metrics of HPS. That combination of set bonuses can put out more healing.

But he left out that those are under specific circumstances. That is, times where you are fed defeat responses (trash pulls, or even when a minstrel plays you Song of Aid).

The intent was omission for someone to challenge it with a real argument, and discussion can start from it.

However....

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The intent was omission for someone to challenge it with a real argument, and discussion can start from it.

However....

Ok, well I'd like to discuss 3GC/3Mene vs 5Mene, taking just the aspect of tank heals as a priority for now. I did enjoy rocking 3GC/3Mene before U6, but I suspect that 5 menestaid might be better for tank heals (including increased main healer heals from ~3% more inc healing to tank) in low defeat response fights.

Quick rough figuring, what's a good estimate for VS heals? 450 an average pulse to a tank? At a pulse per 3 seconds, thats 150 HPS. Multiply ratio of uptime/cooldown so with 5 menestaid thats essentially 1/3 so 50 HPS to the tank there. Assuming change in OGH between the two sets in question is negligible, if you get 1 RC/min with 3GC/3Mene, you'll change the ratio of ~1/2 for VS uptime/cooldown, so make that 75 HPS to the tank. Difference of 25 HPS. Find average incoming HPS to a tank (should vary by tank and fight and everything. I have no clue what it would be) and take the difference between that value and the [avg HPS to tank]*[Tank's inc healing with 1800 inc heal rating from menestaid]/[Tank's inc heal withough menestaid]. Compare the difference to that 25 HPS to see what's better for tank healing.

Sorry, I don't have a guess for that incoming HPS to tank. I bolded the inputs to this back-of-the-napkin comparison; those need to be evaluated for validity too.

Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer

No, by metrics of HPS. That combination of set bonuses can put out more healing.

But he left out that those are under specific circumstances. That is, times where you are fed defeat responses (trash pulls, or even when a minstrel plays you Song of Aid).

No, by your opinion

I've had this debate numerous times so I'm not really interested in having it again. But I guess I"ll throw something in there. Skills like Rally Cry that rely on Defeat Response are not reliable. A 6-second Rally Cry for example is only going to be useful to you if you find yourself in a situation where things are dying every 6 seconds around you... or perhaps if you get really lucky with crits.

It's very situational. So what's better or what isn't really depends on what kind of situation you are in. But in any case, I didn't even say which was better or which wasn't. I simply recommended the Menestaid set to a HoH Captain who was asking which Orthanc set would be best for his healing Captain. Why you would find that advice so controversial is beyond me ^^

For the love of Frodo, can we stop referring to healing Captains as "Hands of Healing Captains"? This just leads to more and more raid leaders who don't know any better forcing Captains to retrait because they don't know how effective healing is without the capstone.

My only issue with the 3Men,3GC set is that if you're in a single-boss fight, getting unlucky with crits on PA/DB is going to pretty much void the set bonuses. I've had fights where I was lucky to get a DB crit, despite maxed DB crit legacy. Maybe my crit rating wasn't high enough, but it's too dependent on defeat response.

and maybe 3Pers is godmode, but I'm certainly not about to farm commendations just for that.

So currently I run with 5 Menestaid, just because it suits my playstyle.

Originally Posted by Frisco

For the love of Frodo, can we stop referring to healing Captains as "Hands of Healing Captains"? This just leads to more and more raid leaders who don't know any better forcing Captains to retrait because they don't know how effective healing is without the capstone.

Frisco, this thread was about a Hands of Healing captain asking which set would be best for this class? lol

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Frisco, this thread was about a Hands of Healing captain asking which set would be best for this class? lol

No, I got that. But you in particular seem to equate a healing Captain with a *Hands of Healing* captain. Like:

The Menestaid Set is awesome for Hands of Healing Captains and I highly recommend it. Not only does it boost all the right stuff like Tactical, Crit, Power, Might, Fate - but gives you a cool Incoming Healing buff you can stack up to 3 times on your tank, which can add up nicely.

Great set and I haven't looked back since I got it. It's like a Hand of Healing Captain's wet dream.

The "Hands of" is redundant, and if we let it get confusing, it'll lead to leaders who have never played Captains to assume that if they want a healing Captain, they'll need to be traited HoH. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Menestaid vs Gallant Commander:

20% VS is not as good as vs cooldown reduction, in any scenario i can think of.
Having VS cooldown w/ an additional 20% healing (IE 3gc/3men) is not as useful as an improved revealing mark. Especially if you're in a raid. Of the raids... The only fight where revealing mark is not useful is probably Acid.

I think the only time i would recommend the full menestaid set is when you're doing 3man's, as the bonus you get from VS cooldown is halved with only a 3 person fellowship, and single target healing becomes more important. But... The bonus it would give you over gallant commander is pretty marginal to justify farming up 5 set pieces.

If you're in a raid and running a healset... stacking WoC's on a tank just for the 3% incoming healing bonus is probably a waste of power and dps. Assuming the tank is shield brother'd and decently geared he'll have around 40% incoming healing anyway; making that 43% isn't too impressive. On the other hand every ToO raid has trash mobs that come and die giving you rally cries. (limrafn's, grims, acid adds, shadow roots, sarumen) The less healers have to worry about the rest of the raid the more they can worry about the tank.

For the record i have 3pc of the moors set. So this is mostly irrelevant for me.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

No, by your opinion

I've had this debate numerous times so I'm not really interested in having it again. But I guess I"ll throw something in there. Skills like Rally Cry that rely on Defeat Response are not reliable. A 6-second Rally Cry for example is only going to be useful to you if you find yourself in a situation where things are dying every 6 seconds around you... or perhaps if you get really lucky with crits.

It's very situational. So what's better or what isn't really depends on what kind of situation you are in. But in any case, I didn't even say which was better or which wasn't. I simply recommended the Menestaid set to a HoH Captain who was asking which Orthanc set would be best for his healing Captain. Why you would find that advice so controversial is beyond me ^^

Good lord, did you read my post? I said it put out more healing under certain circumstances. Then you come along with "...useful to you if you find yourself in a situation where things are dying every 6 seconds around you" like I left it out or something.

Originally Posted by Frisco

For the love of Frodo, can we stop referring to healing Captains as "Hands of Healing Captains"? This just leads to more and more raid leaders who don't know any better forcing Captains to retrait because they don't know how effective healing is without the capstone.

This is so true, because a 4 red/3 blue build can put out comparative healing to a HoH Capstone build.

Also, why put divides in the class when none existed previously? Foolish pride in a particular traitline helps none of us, and hurts us all.

Originally Posted by Frisco

No, I got that. But you in particular seem to equate a healing Captain with a *Hands of Healing* captain. Like:



The "Hands of" is redundant, and if we let it get confusing, it'll lead to leaders who have never played Captains to assume that if they want a healing Captain, they'll need to be traited HoH. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

lol what?

Frisco, the OP specifically pointed out he liked Hands of Healing and was wanting to know which Orthanc set would be good for that, so I recommended the Menestaid set.

Now if you want to go off on some side-debate about rather a non HoH Captain can heal effectively that's fine, but really has nothing to do with what I was responding to. And trying to get on to me because I am talking about Hands of Healing Captains in a thread specifically aimed at Hands of Healing Captains is a little silly. I'm simply commenting in regards to the subject of the thread.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

This is so true, because a 4 red/3 blue build can put out comparative healing to a HoH Capstone build.

Also, why put divides in the class when none existed previously? Foolish pride in a particular traitline helps none of us, and hurts us all.

"Foolish Pride?" in HoH?... I've done no such thing. In fact I've gone OUT OF MY WAY to stress other traitlines are great too.

Just another unfair post mischaraterizing what I've said on these forums in some attempt to personally attack me.

If any comments are "dividing us" or "hurting us" as Captains it's comments like "HoH sucks for PvE". Those are the divisive and foolish comments if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer

Good lord, did you read my post? I said it put out more healing under certain circumstances. Then you come along with "...useful to you if you find yourself in a situation where things are dying every 6 seconds around you" like I left it out or something.

Omen, I read the first part of it (I had a phonecall).

Anyways... like I said, it's situational. If you said that then good, we agree. End of debate lol

Originally Posted by DuneBug

Menestaid vs Gallant Commander:


If you're in a raid and running a healset... stacking WoC's on a tank just for the 3% incoming healing bonus is probably a waste of power and dps. .

I just don't agree with this at all.

First, you shouldn't have to "stack' WoC on the tank "just" for the 3% incoming healing bonus. It should happen naturally, and deffinitely woudn't be a waste of power and dps. And that extra incoming healing will figure into every single heal that comes that tanks way. That's extra healing on your Inspire, on your WoC pulse, on your WoC itself, on your rally cries, not to mention that feeds into all other heals coming that tank's way from other sources as well. So if you look at it in the broader sense, it's pretty good.

Show me any Warden tank for example who would scoff at a 1800 incoming healing buff on a piece of his armor as being a "waste". I doubt you will, least not a good one.

I'm sure you can find specific situations of where other gear-make ups can provide more healing based off frequent defeat responses and the like. I've never argued that. But that doesn't mean the incoming healing buff provided by the Menestaid is a waste of power and dps.

Personally, I find most of the skill specific bonuses for the captain sets to be kinda meh. They're nice to have, but not game changing. However I do like the indiviudal stats on the gear. Thats why I run these days with 4 of the Dagor set (helm, shoulders, gloves and boots) with the chest and leggings of the Menestaid. Cause to me it's the nicest mix of stats, lots of might from the set bonuses, finesse with a mix of both physical and tactical mastery.

Of course this is just a personal preference of mine, but it works for my style, good healing with good dps, since I normally trait 4b/3r when raiding.

Originally Posted by Isilmacil

Personally, I find most of the skill specific bonuses for the captain sets to be kinda meh. They're nice to have, but not game changing. However I do like the indiviudal stats on the gear. Thats why I run these days with 4 of the Dagor set (helm, shoulders, gloves and boots) with the chest and leggings of the Menestaid. Cause to me it's the nicest mix of stats, lots of might from the set bonuses, finesse with a mix of both physical and tactical mastery.

Of course this is just a personal preference of mine, but it works for my style, good healing with good dps, since I normally trait 4b/3r when raiding.

They're not "game-changing" I agree. But they are nice little perks and not a "waste". That's basically all I was saying.

Of course every Captain should use what-ever gear combinations that best suits their own individual play-style. That's one of the best things about this class in fact, the sheer variety of play it offers. I love that about the class - and how you can literally personalize it to your own tastes and still be effective.

So if you like mixing and matching different sets together, more power to you.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Just another unfair post mischaraterizing what I've said on these forums in some attempt to personally attack me.

Just returning the favor.

Have a nice day =)

Originally Posted by Isilmacil

Personally, I find most of the skill specific bonuses for the captain sets to be kinda meh. They're nice to have, but not game changing. However I do like the indiviudal stats on the gear. Thats why I run these days with 4 of the Dagor set (helm, shoulders, gloves and boots) with the chest and leggings of the Menestaid. Cause to me it's the nicest mix of stats, lots of might from the set bonuses, finesse with a mix of both physical and tactical mastery.

Of course this is just a personal preference of mine, but it works for my style, good healing with good dps, since I normally trait 4b/3r when raiding.

Totally hear you there.

Tognir isn't all that great outside of LoM.

3 Dagor is pointless without Master of War, and 5 Dagor leaves something to be desired without both MoW and Renewed Voice.

3 Menestaid is pointless without Hands of Healing, and while 5 Menestaid is useful in almost any build, the Menestaid stats lack just enough of what matters to make it lackluster compared to everything else.

3 Gallant Commander is pointless without Hands of healing, thankfully the armor is (overall) good enough that the 5 set bonus works halfway decent in any traiting.

Then you have the 'Moors gear.... which is largely out of the scope of the time limited and non-PvMPers.

Seems like the armor sets are trying to reinforce a capstone build, yet the gameplay indicates a non-capstone build to be better...

**sigh**

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Just returning the favor.

Have a nice day =)

**

I've never mischaraterized anything you've said.

You have a nice day also

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Just returning the favor.

Have a nice day =)



Totally hear you there.

Tognir isn't all that great outside of LoM.

3 Dagor is pointless without Master of War, and 5 Dagor leaves something to be desired without both MoW and Renewed Voice.

3 Menestaid is pointless without Hands of Healing, and while 5 Menestaid is useful in almost any build, the Menestaid stats lack just enough of what matters to make it lackluster compared to everything else.

3 Gallant Commander is pointless without Hands of healing, thankfully the armor is (overall) good enough that the 5 set bonus works halfway decent in any traiting.

Then you have the 'Moors gear.... which is largely out of the scope of the time limited and non-PvMPers.

Seems like the armor sets are trying to reinforce a capstone build, yet the gameplay indicates a non-capstone build to be better...

**sigh**

Don't PvP never have never well. The whole concept just makes me think of an old Star Trek episode. The one where Kirk and the boys found themselves on the enterprise sans crew - just 12 of them with an equal number of Klingons fighting for control of the ship. Also sans phasers and sich - just old timie weapons, swords, maces. Part way into it Kirk finds out that no one can die, they get a mortal wound but a bit later they are up and fine and ready to go die again for the cause.

Kirk figures out a superior alien presence has set the stage. Put them on the enterprise with equal numbers and nothing but the hand to hand combat weapons so they can feed on the emotions of death and hand to hand combat. He talks to the Klingons and explains they are just puppets for these beings. Fighting and dying for eternity for their benefit and pleasure. They get together and laugh at the alien driving them off and freeing the ship.

To me this is what PvP is. People fighting for Turbines pleasure, or any game companies. They don't need add new content. They just need keep upping the rewards and watch people go scurry about to fight each other for the new shiny toy.

One of the things I liked about this game originally was they did not seem to do this. PvP was there but only for people that really wanted to go do it. There was no incentives. Then came a big lull in content and people where complaining of the lack of new content. So to tide them over turbine just started adding PvP rewards that people wanted. Give everyone an incentive to go PvP endlessly with no new content. Just add a new shiny bauble.

I hate it when game companies make it so you 'need' go PvP to have good gear to PvE in. They do this because they know PvP is a cheap fall back for lack of content. All they need to do is force fresh meat out there to keep it interesting, and to force fresh meat out there all they need to do is put some 'must have' items as rewards. Ten hours maximum of a programmers time to stick some new stats on a weapon or piece of armor and they just gave two months of play time. Two months of newbies being fresh meat for slaughter to grind the new must have with no added content.

So thanks for all the replys and sorry if I ignited an old battle between some of you. You simply wanted to make clear I did not want the 'tank' or 'dps' sets for my playstyle and thought using the term "hands of healing" would keep people from telling me how good the dps set is or the tank set.

Originally Posted by Gandie2

I hate it when game companies make it so you 'need' go PvP to have good gear to PvE in. They do this because they know PvP is a cheap fall back for lack of content. All they need to do is force fresh meat out there to keep it interesting, and to force fresh meat out there all they need to do is put some 'must have' items as rewards. Ten hours maximum of a programmers time to stick some new stats on a weapon or piece of armor and they just gave two months of play time. Two months of newbies being fresh meat for slaughter to grind the new must have with no added content.

lol, amen brother. It's getting worse.. I guess RoR won't release with any new instances or skirmishes. I bet there'll be new pvp gear though.