It was a joke and not meant to be taken seriously or personally. More or less it's just a song about two people who are more or less saying the same thing but can't get along because they are saying it differently. .
Oh there was a song... ok had my headphones off so all I saw was a tomato sitting there. That could explain why I was so confused
And we weren't really saying the same thing Thalif. Almagnus views the Captain as a healing class and therefore thinks they should be able to heal just as well as other healing classes. I look at the Captain as a Support Class, and therefore accept and condone that we can't heal as well as other actual healing classes. That was the difference.
On t2 while doing the deed, you have to tank the boss and three or more of the 13k uruks at one time. I was spamming every heal and defensive buff I had. I'm not going to go type out ten lines about my gear and legacies but I assure my healing isn't low.
From the sound of this, I would say your DPS was probably the problem, and was staying focused on the boss intead of taking out the adds as they came - so you got over-whelmed.
Let the DPS know you can interrupt his inductions. That may have been why he was staying on the boss instead of taking out adds.
And we weren't really saying the same thing Thalif. Almagnus views the Captain as a healing class and therefore thinks they should be able to heal just as well as other healing classes. I look at the Captain as a Support Class, and therefore accept and condone that we can't heal as well as other actual healing classes. That was the difference.
Wrong, we are a hybrid.
If we trait non-capstone, we get a hybrid character.
Theoretically, if we trait for a role, we should be up there with the chars dedicated to it.
If we trait non-capstone, we get a hybrid character.
Theoretically, if we trait for a role, we should be up there with the chars dedicated to it.
Almagnus - we are what Turbine says we are. It's their game. We don't decide what role our characters are. Turbine does. And Turbine says we are a Support Class. So maybe this is an argument you want to take up with them instead of me.
We are NOT the super class that can become as good as any other class at anything we wish simply by visiting a bard. You can trait to increase your DPS - but you are still going to be out-dpsed by specialized DPS classes. Why? Because we are a support class not a DPS Class. You can trait to boost your healing but you are still going to be out-healed by specialized healing classes. Why? Because we are SUPPORT class and not a healing class. It makes perfect sense to me, and I think that's the way it should be.
And what does the most noobish of classes from that lame MMO have to do with anything here?
I was bringing that up as an example.
That is a class that could morph into any main-role it wished by simply "re-traiting". That's not the case here.
The Captain class specializes in Support. That's it's role. It's not designed to be like Paladins from WoW and dominate or equal any role it chooses by simply changing traits.
That is a class that could morph into any main-role it wished by simply "re-traiting". That's not the case here.
The Captain class specializes in Support. That's it's role. It's not designed to be like Paladins from WoW and dominate or equal any role it chooses by simply changing traits.
Then why did Turbine give us three trait lines that ARE the three primary roles, and then make us halfway competent in all of them?
That doesn't make sense for a class designed purely for support; however, it does for a class that's a hybrid.
Then why did Turbine give us three trait lines that ARE the three primary roles, and then make us halfway competent in all of them?
That doesn't make sense for a class designed purely for support; however, it does for a class that's a hybrid.
I'm not sure where you are going with this. Unless you REALLY revamp Captain, if we heal as well as Mini, DPS like a Champ/Hunter, and tank like a Guard just by retraiting, um, why would you need any other classes (OK, we also need a CC line, so we can CC like a burg/LM first). If we can do those, while still buffing and debuffing and throwing off big group heals just as effectively, seems like we'd be really overpowered... If you really go down this direction for balance, our healing would have to be seriously gimped in DPS mode, just like our DPS is currently pretty gimped in healing/tanking mode. And probably our buffs would have to require more traiting/resources so we couldn't do it all at once...
I'm fine with Captains being support, who can choose an emphasis with trait lines, and can by some amount of stretching fill in as heals, DPS, or tank in 3 or 6 mans. Seems to me that is what I signed up for when I made my Captain.
I'm not sure where you are going with this. Unless you REALLY revamp Captain, if we heal as well as Mini, DPS like a Champ/Hunter, and tank like a Guard just by retraiting, um, why would you need any other classes (OK, we also need a CC line, so we can CC like a burg/LM first). If we can do those, while still buffing and debuffing and throwing off big group heals just as effectively, seems like we'd be really overpowered... If you really go down this direction for balance, our healing would have to be seriously gimped in DPS mode, just like our DPS is currently pretty gimped in healing/tanking mode. And probably our buffs would have to require more traiting/resources so we couldn't do it all at once...
But here's the kicker, as a LoM tank, your healing and DPS are low (comparatively), because you need to stack vit instead of might.
As a HoH captain, your DPS is low (as demonstrated by the parses), and off tanking - while doable - isn't exactly easy. Tanking is downright foolish in HoH without gearing like a LoM tank.
And then there's LtC - DPS is good, but so is the healing (which needs to be fixed IMO). And because of the skill synergies, you can off tank without any LoM traits (which should be fixed IMO). Without the HoTs from HoH, while you can tank, you'll probably turn your healer emo.
Seems to me that our design is already approaching that point.
Because...
Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise
I'm fine with Captains being support, who can choose an emphasis with trait lines, and can by some amount of stretching fill in as heals, DPS, or tank in 3 or 6 mans. Seems to me that is what I signed up for when I made my Captain.
That's basically the role that a non-capstone has. It's the way we've been traditionally, and should always remain a viable option.
How many classes can claim not 3, but FOUR ways to build themselves, and all are effective?
And yes, that includes the Li'l Brudder that is HoH.
And with the link, punch line's at the end, otherwise Strongbad looks like a total jerk.
Then why did Turbine give us three trait lines that ARE the three primary roles, and then make us halfway competent in all of them?
That doesn't make sense for a class designed purely for support; however, it does for a class that's a hybrid.
Almagnus, while I'm not going to be lured into some debate over the semantics of what constitutes a "hybrid" - just let me say you pretty much answered your own question here.
You recognize that the trait-lines Turbine provided us with do not enable us to perform a "primary role" on the same level as other more specialized classes, calling them only "halfway comptetent" at it. Therefore I don't understand what you are confused about.
If Turbine wanted the Captain to be the kind of class you envision, then woudn't it have made more sense that they have given us trait lines that put us on a more equal-footing with other "primary role" classes as you say? They didn't because that was not their intent, because they see us as a Support Class - and not a specialized class in any single primary role.
The variety in trait-lines enables us to focus in on a specific type of support to emphasize - but that' is all. They aren't meant to turn us into a class like Paladins from WoW, where we can morph into any "primary role" we choose simply by visiting a bard. That would make us far too powerful as a class - and would drastically undermine the game's intended balance.
Tanks can't res, or apply giant bubbles to the group, or buff. There's no reason we should be anywhere close to a champion in ability to tank. I'd like to be able to hold aoe agro off of a champ though... And threatening shout isn't cutting it.
A MoW captain adds more dps to the group than any other class, while still having reasonable damage on his own, and the ability to heal, and restore power, throw bubbles, and all that other stuff.
Only justification for raising our healing levels is minstrel buffs, which aren't as potent as ours, at least not damage-wise. They have a lot of weird misc. defense buffs. Minstrel damage while healing/buffing is even worse than ours while in HoH... And they can't take a hit like we can; Healing does need a boost, IMO... But not a very large one.
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Originally Posted by Thalifea
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