But ummm, Aer, I'd love to hear your justifications for why you consider guards underpowered in the current scenario. 'Cause from where I'm sitting, I'd have to disagree. But then, I'm a nub, so I guess you should disregard what I say anyway.
Underpowered isn't really what I mean. 1v1 guards can expect to be a near match for ranked creep classes, but in every case it's by being on top of the movement. Otherwise a melee creep will out-dps our more dot-reliant single-target and debuff more usefully, or a ranged creep will out-kite our movement using timers to cover our timers, or a healer will out-heal our dps (since audacity was released, but those are the tightest match-ups). In that regard guard is in the absolute perfect place right now and it's all because of how guard dps was indirectly impeded with the direction the game went in this last xpac. Any 1v1 a ranked creep has with a guard will normally go at the guards slow pace and take longer than against any freep other than self-healing types.
The problem for guards is more comparing with other freeps in the normal group fighting, because we've no burst (we're dot-heavy for one), less single-target dps than all but 1 freep class (by quite a margin in most cases) and we're pure melee; these factors combine to mean we need to stay in the fight (in melee range and receiving creep attention) longer to achieve as much as other freeps. So, we can pack defense (and further lessen our damage output, but it actually brings us back nearer other freeps built the same way as we gain more from our stance the less offense we have) and we become survivable, but still far less so than champ (capt and burg playstyles don't need to stay on top so much) and with the aforementioned impediment of lacking dps. None of the rest of it would be all that bad if guards could compare in contribution to a fight with other freeps, I'd get over pledge being indirectly nerfed, and the survivability of champs, but... no.
Our niches have both dried up (mobile fighting went out the window as damage went up and combat got faster, again, and march half-nullified our chasing) so now we've no area in which we're better than a champ, it's really a case of playing at the same slow pace the guard can't avoid (that you see in 1v1's) with a lack of pvp abilities and charge as the compensation (both our self-heal and pledge have lessened impact by far compared to the past). And the 1v1 angle... first, we've few ranked and built-out creeps anyway, and those that have toons that surpass my own oft enough avoid me in part because of how the guard was 1v1 in the past and also because of how most freep toons are currently.
The above is why you see fewer guards moors'ing worldwide, indeed those that are seem to be raid players with very constant renown levels. Didn't really want to type so much, but to answer fully; it was needed
Underpowered isn't really what I mean. 1v1 guards can expect to be a near match for ranked creep classes, but in every case it's by being on top of the movement. Otherwise a melee creep will out-dps our more dot-reliant single-target and debuff more usefully, or a ranged creep will out-kite our movement using timers to cover our timers, or a healer will out-heal our dps (since audacity was released, but those are the tightest match-ups). In that regard guard is in the absolute perfect place right now and it's all because of how guard dps was indirectly impeded with the direction the game went in this last xpac. Any 1v1 a ranked creep has with a guard will normally go at the guards slow pace and take longer than against any freep other than self-healing types.
The problem for guards is more comparing with other freeps in the normal group fighting, because we've no burst (we're dot-heavy for one), less single-target dps than all but 1 freep class (by quite a margin in most cases) and we're pure melee; these factors combine to mean we need to stay in the fight (in melee range and receiving creep attention) longer to achieve as much as other freeps. So, we can pack defense (and further lessen our damage output, but it actually brings us back nearer other freeps built the same way as we gain more from our stance the less offense we have) and we become survivable, but still far less so than champ (capt and burg playstyles don't need to stay on top so much) and with the aforementioned impediment of lacking dps. None of the rest of it would be all that bad if guards could compare in contribution to a fight with other freeps, I'd get over pledge being indirectly nerfed, and the survivability of champs, but... no.
Our niches have both dried up (mobile fighting went out the window as damage went up and combat got faster, again, and march half-nullified our chasing) so now we've no area in which we're better than a champ, it's really a case of playing at the same slow pace the guard can't avoid (that you see in 1v1's) with a lack of pvp abilities and charge as the compensation (both our self-heal and pledge have lessened impact by far compared to the past). And the 1v1 angle... first, we've few ranked and built-out creeps anyway, and those that have toons that surpass my own oft enough avoid me in part because of how the guard was 1v1 in the past and also because of how most freep toons are currently.
The above is why you see fewer guards moors'ing worldwide, indeed those that are seem to be raid players with very constant renown levels. Didn't really want to type so much, but to answer fully; it was needed
From recently playing a warg, vs a guard with 130% run speed is just menacing. Basically if you make a mistake in your movement as the warg, you get a positional stagger and that alone can get you screwed over. Especially if it is one with experience landing staggers.
Kinda worse on any other creep class, as the guard has even more of a movement advantage.
From recently playing a warg, vs a guard with 130% run speed is just menacing. Basically if you make a mistake in your movement as the warg, you get a positional stagger and that alone can get you screwed over. Especially if it is one with experience landing staggers.
Kinda worse on any other creep class, as the guard has even more of a movement advantage.
The OP line pvp set removes the neccesity of positional for Stagger to take effect. I don't believe Aer runs the necessary 5 of that particular set, but the point remains.
Cirq - r12 LM - Apex - Elendilmir
⌛ Cirone of Windfola ⌛
"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times."
Can't find the thread where it was compared a month or so ago, however I believe it's capt and not using mark. One to check, just the position of guard was nicely reflected.
Originally Posted by Untg99
From recently playing a warg, vs a guard with 130% run speed is just menacing. Basically if you make a mistake in your movement as the warg, you get a positional stagger and that alone can get you screwed over. Especially if it is one with experience landing staggers.
Kinda worse on any other creep class, as the guard has even more of a movement advantage.
130% is with the ttk buff up and coffee, ttk being used purely for the cj chance and run speed. Using it is the norm of course, but it's for those 2 things, it's poor dps with it's slow animation speed (part assuming you use bleed legacies as most moors guards retain) and a trade-off as a result.
Coffee is of more benefit to most other freep classes if you think about the impact.
And, for a warg it's purely on them taking a positional stagger... they've the choice to slow the guard before the guard has the opportunity to use stagger and thus be at 115% run speed vs 90% at best, and with that advantage there's no real reason the guard should be able to land one if the warg has experience. That's all assuming shadow, flayer just has to drag it out.
The other creep classes:
Not worse for reaver with a charge, resilience and blade toss, because the debuffs of the reaver during that amount of time are easily enough to put them over the top.
BA just gets the kite on so they lose any stagger applied and no ttk gets used, and TM through charge, thereafter being at 100% vs 75% and longer range.
Healers, are moving defensively anyway, and that's far easier regardless. That and the WL slow is 40% when it's applied, so it gives a chance to gain some distance for an induction.
Spider, gets their kite on, WtE's and burrows through the guard's charge. Even if they can't kill the guard before npc's are reached either way, they shouldn't actually die and will win given plenty of space.
Originally Posted by JDCass
The OP line pvp set removes the neccesity of positional for Stagger to take effect. I don't believe Aer runs the necessary 5 of that particular set, but the point remains.
It used to only apply 1 of the 2 debuffs (pretty sure it applied the snare and not the AD debuff), and so was a bit bad to rely on, but upon checking just now it appears to have been fixed/changed. That said; no way would I use it. Using 5 of that set is worse for overall stats than 4 of it and 2 pieces of another (with tact mit on them and phys mastery 2/5) and stagger has 27% positional that we really need also. Only case I'd use it is 1v1 now I see the debuff application has been fixed, and then only for certain classes early on.
Can't find the thread where it was compared a month or so ago, however I believe it's capt and not using mark. One to check, just the position of guard was nicely reflected.
I'm going to forgoe trolling for once and actually discuss why I don't think this is accurate or true. To not use the mark while parsing or w/e is kind of like a Burg parsing without Reveal Weakness. It's a part of your DPS. If a Captain gets the 5-set Sure-Strike bonus (which is the best one, most Captains just get a &&&&&& for 6s RC which is worthless in more situations than not. That being said, you have 2 +10% incoming damage debuffs on the target for the majority of the time. On my Guardian (who is much more gimped than my Captain, but still, theory crafting isn't hard) I can't imagine being able to do more DPS in any way possible than my Captain. Maybe things have changed in the past month or so since I've decided to stop playing, but I'm pretty sure that Guardians are the lowest DPS class.
That being said, I don't think they are close to the most underpowered in most situations. Yes, Pledge is less useful than before with Shadow Wargs and the like, but pure mitigations, morale, and a multitude of slows and escaped make them better at surviving than most class still.
Also, I'm on drugs, sorry for the lack of trolling.
or a ranged creep will out-kite our movement using timers to cover our timers....
JW, but aside from a....defiler who doesn't have an effective slow...and a warleader who has some ranged shouts....I assume you're refferringgggggg to a blackarrow here...but which timers does a BA have that a guardian doesn't have a relatively similiar timer to?
Originally Posted by Grusk
1v1 guards can expect to be a near match for ranked creep classes, but in every case it's by being on top of the movement.
When was the last time a "ranked" blackarrow beat you 1v1, or even came close while making you blow CDs? I need their technique....and trait setup....if this has even been done in the last 6 months >_>
High Chieftain Ryucrat, Hand of Doom...Retired and done with Lotro for as long as can be
JW, but aside from a....defiler who doesn't have an effective slow...and a warleader who has some ranged shouts....I assume you're refferringgggggg to a blackarrow here...but which timers does a BA have that a guardian doesn't have a relatively similiar timer to?
When was the last time a "ranked" blackarrow beat you 1v1, or even came close while making you blow CDs? I need their technique....and trait setup....if this has even been done in the last 6 months >_>
This. I was wondering how I should word my disagreement with Aer's post, so thankee for doing it for me, my dear spokesperson.
Also, what happened to your other account???
Last edited by CirdalvalSilnuviel; Jun 27 2012 at 03:04 AM.
BA, it's obvious how, it's like kiting an npc. If the guard is using crit coffee it changes it quite a bit, but otherwise their slow is -40% bringing down a guard to 65% (traited for +5%) vs stagger being -25% to make the BA 75%. So, without coffee the BA is outdistancing the guard purely kiting off before the guard can run through the parry chain to use ttk (+15%) and match speed. Without coffee the guard will very quickly be forced to charge and try to keep going, but they have to keep the ttk run buff up, and that requires a parry event to run through to. The running through the chain is simple enough whilst using stagger on cd to try and retain the slow, but landing a hit with one of 2 ways (15sec cd skill for one and traited 15sec for the other, meaning both will only be used once in the duration of MT trying to force a parry event) in which the guard opens the parry chain is far from guaranteed for a guard if the BA just keeps facing whilst MT is up, and they're 70+% bpe and a guard packs very little finesse in moors gearing to balance their toon. Get back to a situation where the guard either hasn't landed a stagger recently, or hasn't got a ttk run speed buff up, and a guard without coffee is never going to catch the BA, even using tricks with pledge to try and dodge the BA's slow don't slow the BA for them to catch up before it's back to the perma-kite.
And with coffee (crit) the guard has 10% extra run speed. That puts them moving at the same speed with both slows on and before ttk run speed. The BA has to get just outside of melee distance whilst the guard is trying to ensure positional staggers (they lose the dps race without the extra damage, regardless of needing the slow, and using the 5/5 set bonus for the slow applying without positional worsens the dps race situation for them). So, it's exactly the same, but a bit rougher and with the guard using coffee, the BA using the far more impacting creep buff pots is likely, making it perfectly expectable that they'll achieve the 2 times (that they need to) outdistancing the guard on the kite.
2 times and it's over, or they can just win the dps race.
How many have actually tried me in the time period you question? Only Shap who hasn't fled for npc's in the mix, but there's an awful lot more the guard is having to do right in the fight than the BA is, and moving defensively (avoiding giving positional mainly in this case) has always been easier. Assuming you have a guard who is hitting every bit of timing perfectly, it's still entirely in the BA's control to out-move the guard and kite them to oblivion. Helps if they understand all of the above ofc.
BA, it's obvious how, it's like kiting an npc. If the guard is using crit coffee it changes it quite a bit, but otherwise their slow is -40% bringing down a guard to 65% (traited for +5%) vs stagger being -25% to make the BA 75%. So, without coffee the BA is outdistancing the guard purely kiting off before the guard can run through the parry chain to use ttk (+15%) and match speed. Without coffee the guard will very quickly be forced to charge and try to keep going, but they have to keep the ttk run buff up, and that requires a parry event to run through to. The running through the chain is simple enough whilst using stagger on cd to try and retain the slow, but landing a hit with one of 2 ways (15sec cd skill for one and traited 15sec for the other, meaning both will only be used once in the duration of MT trying to force a parry event) in which the guard opens the parry chain is far from guaranteed for a guard if the BA just keeps facing whilst MT is up, and they're 70+% bpe and a guard packs very little finesse in moors gearing to balance their toon. Get back to a situation where the guard either hasn't landed a stagger recently, or hasn't got a ttk run speed buff up, and a guard without coffee is never going to catch the BA, even using tricks with pledge to try and dodge the BA's slow don't slow the BA for them to catch up before it's back to the perma-kite.
And with coffee (crit) the guard has 10% extra run speed. That puts them moving at the same speed with both slows on and before ttk run speed. The BA has to get just outside of melee distance whilst the guard is trying to ensure positional staggers (they lose the dps race without the extra damage, regardless of needing the slow, and using the 5/5 set bonus for the slow applying without positional worsens the dps race situation for them). So, it's exactly the same, but a bit rougher and with the guard using coffee, the BA using the far more impacting creep buff pots is likely, making it perfectly expectable that they'll achieve the 2 times (that they need to) outdistancing the guard on the kite.
2 times and it's over, or they can just win the dps race.
How many have actually tried me in the time period you question? Only Shap who hasn't fled for npc's in the mix, but there's an awful lot more the guard is having to do right in the fight than the BA is, and moving defensively (avoiding giving positional mainly in this case) has always been easier. Assuming you have a guard who is hitting every bit of timing perfectly, it's still entirely in the BA's control to out-move the guard and kite them to oblivion. Helps if they understand all of the above ofc.
I know very little about coffee and nothing about guard sets. Just from the two or three times we fought, this is what I gathered:
Almost as soon as the fight begins, you pop Charge if it is up, negating my slows for the next 17s or so. I pop MT just before you get into melee/slow range, so I now have about 15s of your Sprint duration to survive. With Pledge, you gain an evade buff like I do (granted, I don't know the exact duration or evade percentage bonus of yours), so effectively, for a while we're both trying to apply slows and damage hoping they stick.
Once Sprint is done, you have about 15s of MT to ride using your Pledge, and I've never actually evaded every single slow you pop while my timer is up, so we can assume when MT wears off you have me slowed, reducing my kiting effectiveness. Add to that the fact that you have some additional CC (daze/stun/mez/something) to fall back on, multiple slows, better armor, damage output almost at par with my own (I trait almost completely for DPS, btw, barring one HforP corruption) and maybe even some duration of Pledge left over (plus, I hear guards can Pledge twice somehow, though Idk how that works) and 'course you can (and have told me you do) swap out your stance and gear to add a shield for added BPE; all of which points to my being disadvantaged, no?
Oh, and let's not forget that you possibly have the option of using the landscape to break my LoS and ride out my initial MT if needed...
Even popping my uruk-heal and a pot or two, I just don't have the survivability to - whaddya know - survive even your damage output. 'Course, maybe I'm doing everything wrong and should shut up now.
I know very little about coffee and nothing about guard sets. Just from the two or three times we fought, this is what I gathered:
Almost as soon as the fight begins, you pop Charge if it is up, negating my slows for the next 17s or so. I pop MT just before you get into melee/slow range, so I now have about 15s of your Sprint duration to survive. With Pledge, you gain an evade buff like I do (granted, I don't know the exact duration or evade percentage bonus of yours), so effectively, for a while we're both trying to apply slows and damage hoping they stick.
Once Sprint is done, you have about 15s of MT to ride using your Pledge, and I've never actually evaded every single slow you pop while my timer is up, so we can assume when MT wears off you have me slowed, reducing my kiting effectiveness. Add to that the fact that you have some additional CC (daze/stun/mez/something) to fall back on, multiple slows, better armor, damage output almost at par with my own (I trait almost completely for DPS, btw, barring one HforP corruption) and maybe even some duration of Pledge left over (plus, I hear guards can Pledge twice somehow, though Idk how that works) and 'course you can (and have told me you do) swap out your stance and gear to add a shield for added BPE; all of which points to my being disadvantaged, no?
Oh, and let's not forget that you possibly have the option of using the landscape to break my LoS and ride out my initial MT if needed...
Even popping my uruk-heal and a pot or two, I just don't have the survivability to - whaddya know - survive even your damage output. 'Course, maybe I'm doing everything wrong and should shut up now.
Pledge is 30seconds....same as our moving target...and guardians CAN use it twice, with a skill that resets multiple cooldowns (including a guardian's heal, which can be used twice, too). So theoretically, a Guardian has a minute of B/P/E at 50% + whatever their normal BPE is....on top of two + (catch a breath sometimes will get used depending on the situation, as well) heals which will do a combined total of about 3-4k health depending on legendary swap outs (if i'm correct, might be a little less, but it IS at least 1.2k each or so), and on top of that....guards have their 17 second sprint on a 2 minute cooldown. On top of allll that, if a firedot happens to land, it'll be potted off...if it lands twice (rarely happens), then you'll use your wound skill to get rid of it again, and if it lands 3 times in a row (never happens), then your pot will be up. Or you can just take the 78 damage tic and eat it for breakfast lol. Our DoT is garbage now, so it's not even a great asset, especially against guards. Also, revenge only hits for like...700ish against guards. I've even seen it hit for like 588 against a champion with no outside buffs once. lol that was a bad day >_>
So if by some god forsaken miracle a BA can essentially survive through TWO moving targets....a brand....a sprint....2+ personal heals, a potential man heal/dwarf racial/ elf parry (lol at the elf parry against a BA), multiple pots of all types and kinds, out-kite a heavy armoured class for one minute, and NOT die....or run out of power....then hell yeah....we have a shot. not.
And as for kiting you...as Shap said....shout you off your horse, you'll either be branded (for good reason, but don't deny it), or you'll blow sprint right away....and with TTK, and your slow, even on top of our own...you do actually run faster than us. There's no possible way to out kite you. You're a tank, we can't chase you if you decide to LOS us around a rock or a tree....because we can't get into mellee range, lest it be our doom. And it isn't really hard to get a stagger crit or to get a positional stagger...because in order to kite, we have to turn our sides/back to you, regardless of the situation.
And IIRC, there is a second guardian slow that can be used at some sort of (albeit terrible) ranged skill that can slow? I forget the name of it, though.
Aer I don't mean to sound like a &&&&&, but maybe the fact that nobody sits to fight you 1v1 as a BA is a small indication that there's no point to do so....
I just wonder how you can even imagine that a Blackarrow has any chance against you, Aerdred. Granted, you're the best Guard out here, so it's like comparing all captains to Brusef...but against you particularly, it's downright impossible. Plus, against a single BA, you have the stamina to survive for more than two minutes...you'd just sprint away if the stars aligned for some never-before-seen miracle where a blackarrow was able to get you even close to death after all your cooldowns had been blown.
Least that's just my view on it. Certainly doesn't apply to all guardians, though. lol.
And if you have any hints as to how myself or Shap would be able to kill you...please, do tell...I DO need hints and help here lol
Originally Posted by Grusk
How many have actually tried me in the time period you question? Only Shap who hasn't fled for npc's in the mix, but there's an awful lot more the guard is having to do right in the fight than the BA is, and moving defensively (avoiding giving positional mainly in this case) has always been easier. Assuming you have a guard who is hitting every bit of timing perfectly, it's still entirely in the BA's control to out-move the guard and kite them to oblivion. Helps if they understand all of the above ofc.
I did, about 2 months ago, outside of TR, near the TR HS. You used sprint as soon as you were off your horse, while branded (I believe), then i popped moving target, and you ran behind a rock for 25ish seconds. After that, you got me down to like 6k, before the creep raid swept in, while you were still at 9k+ i believe.
Something along those lines....obviously I can't remember the specifics, but that was the jist of it lol
Ps-you DO hit most timings perfectly! haha
PSS-i'm honestly not trolling or trying to be an argumentative person...I just don't see how there's any way in hell that a Blackarrow's CDs can be considered better than a Guardian....or how a great guardian such as yourself can lose to the likes of a blackarrow on windfola (<---terrible creeps)
Last edited by Forwhatitsworth; Jun 27 2012 at 10:18 AM.
High Chieftain Ryucrat, Hand of Doom...Retired and done with Lotro for as long as can be
Brand/Insignia for either the guard or BA and the other has no chance (unless both do and then it sides with the guard), regardless of anything else. So it's likely I did work for your MT timer with the intention of LoS'ing when popped if you engaged me with brand up :P and the other way round is a case of you having no chance as you can't get away from me/them >.> brands/insignias screw it.
Pledge is 15secs, self-heal (warrior's fortitude) is 1.2k if I remember right (5-piece pve armour set vastly increases it, but can't afford to make the swap unless you're not under direct attack at the time, and there's a minor belt legacy I don't have space for with for it) and CaB can be used after for 300-500 healing (depending on belt legacy and/or crit etc, but likely 300) but it's likely to be a major power cost for so little unless it's traited and it's a yellow trait, so that's unlikely. And, lastly on timers, the reset is a longer timer with an annoyingly-long-for-active-combat animation. The reset is also a timer I'm very reluctant to use in 1v1 unless the creep does something stupidly cheap :P
Pledge for vs a ranked BA means we're at 45% evade (50%-5% from stance) and no other bpe as ours is so low anyway in OP and finesse entirely overrides it. Again, to double up we have to use an annoyingly long animation, and so if we're trying to use it to stay on top through a MT, its using time whilst we can still be relatively spammed with hindering. So, what you 'will' see me do as a last resort at times is throw a shield on and try to get block stance up when I've fallen off the kite, and then once the timed slow from the stance is on the BA; hit pledge then and knotch my evade to 50% and have block 55% (+5% stance) also, which isn't reduced by finesse as it's not rating, but is reduced by that BA trait if you have that particular one slotted to penetrate some avoidances. So 105-% with a shield on and trying to very much sneak up on the BA to pop into OP and stagger/engage, or pledge in OP and pray the HS's don't hit. It's all battling against time and any swapping hurts for it. Like I said, my build/s have very low finesse to balance my kinda hefty defense when trying to draw a fight out, so the BA 'does' have base bpe in effect.
This is all for the 2nd easiest 1v1 opponent for a guard ofc. Shadow warg being the easiest prospect (mostly for the calibre).
This is all for the 2nd easiest 1v1 opponent for a guard ofc. Shadow warg being the easiest prospect (mostly for the calibre).
Calibre really doesn't matter. In your current build it would be virtually impossible for a Shadow warg to kill you before dying themselves. Even though Guard may have the worst dps of any freep, in Shadow stance you can still be hit for 1000-1500 crits. In shadow stance against your current build, the most a warg could hope for is 300-500 devs and bleed dmg is laughable(fully dps traited).
~Finmeister - R12 Stalker~
Forced retirement by the KB change (the last straw.....)
Brand/Insignia for either the guard or BA and the other has no chance (unless both do and then it sides with the guard), regardless of anything else. So it's likely I did work for your MT timer with the intention of LoS'ing when popped if you engaged me with brand up :P and the other way round is a case of you having no chance as you can't get away from me/them >.> brands/insignias screw it.
Originally Posted by Grusk
Pledge is 15secs, self-heal (warrior's fortitude) is 1.2k if I remember right (5-piece pve armour set vastly increases it, but can't afford to make the swap unless you're not under direct attack at the time, and there's a minor belt legacy I don't have space for with for it) and CaB can be used after for 300-500 healing (depending on belt legacy and/or crit etc, but likely 300) but it's likely to be a major power cost for so little unless it's traited and it's a yellow trait, so that's unlikely. And, lastly on timers, the reset is a longer timer with an annoyingly-long-for-active-combat animation. The reset is also a timer I'm very reluctant to use in 1v1 unless the creep does something stupidly cheap :P
I didn't realize Pledge was only 15 seconds. I apologize. My guard sits at level 67, and hasn't been to the moors in a very long time...I have forgotten. lol
Originally Posted by Grusk
Pledge for vs a ranked BA means we're at 45% evade (50%-5% from stance) and no other bpe as ours is so low anyway in OP and finesse entirely overrides it. Again, to double up we have to use an annoyingly long animation, and so if we're trying to use it to stay on top through a MT, its using time whilst we can still be relatively spammed with hindering. So, what you 'will' see me do as a last resort at times is throw a shield on and try to get block stance up when I've fallen off the kite, and then once the timed slow from the stance is on the BA; hit pledge then and knotch my evade to 50% and have block 55% (+5% stance) also, which isn't reduced by finesse as it's not rating, but is reduced by that BA trait if you have that particular one slotted to penetrate some avoidances. So 105-% with a shield on and trying to very much sneak up on the BA to pop into OP and stagger/engage, or pledge in OP and pray the HS's don't hit. It's all battling against time and any swapping hurts for it. Like I said, my build/s have very low finesse to balance my kinda hefty defense when trying to draw a fight out, so the BA 'does' have base bpe in effect.
This is all for the 2nd easiest 1v1 opponent for a guard ofc. Shadow warg being the easiest prospect (mostly for the calibre).
I guess I would agree with you here...in theory. Although in practice, there isn't a single Blackarrow on the server who can kill you
Edit : thanks for explaining, though
High Chieftain Ryucrat, Hand of Doom...Retired and done with Lotro for as long as can be
Aer I don't mean to sound like a &&&&&, but maybe the fact that nobody sits to fight you 1v1 as a BA is a small indication that there's no point to do so...
I keep trying, but for one I've only seen him out a few times recently, and also I'm crazy, so I hardly count.
Originally Posted by Forwhatitsworth
I just wonder how you can even imagine that a Blackarrow has any chance against you, Aerdred. Granted, you're the best Guard out here, so it's like comparing all captains to Brusef...but against you particularly, it's downright impossible. Plus, against a single BA, you have the stamina to survive for more than two minutes...you'd just sprint away if the stars aligned for some never-before-seen miracle where a blackarrow was able to get you even close to death after all your cooldowns had been blown.
This.
Quick clarification: what's the CD on the guard Sprint?
Originally Posted by Forwhatitsworth
And if you have any hints as to how myself or Shap would be able to kill you...please, do tell...
So much this! I remember after a 1v1 I asked you if you had any tips for me, and all you said was I did pretty much everything right, but you could do this, and then that, and maybe even some of the other if need be, and you would never lose to a BA if you didn't want to. That was before the latest update(s), though, and Idk why you seem to have changed your mind, but I'd love to get tips to improve against guards.
To have matchable finesse and skills you need to be a r10 BA before thinking about taking on a good guard. Even then, the guard has way too many options to avoid the combat if it's putting it at a disadvantage.
Unless it's a hunter or LM, the freep should be limiting themselves if they want a fair 1v1. Of course, because of some limitations, specific creepside counters should not be used to take advantage of that, but then again that freep will always have the option of using their cooldown.
Rofl, he is r10 cons... See my dear shap, this is why I told you to make a reaver! Charge in = soo your style. + die = more so your style. Plus! Then you can kill Naeg at r5 and then retire. :>!! lol <3
Good old walls of text with a freep telling a creep the reason they dont win is because they cant play their class or game right.
Next you'll say creep mits are still OP and need nerfed.
Good old Wrok being a noob and not actually noting it was concise even if it was bulky.
To achieve the same mitigation as a WL or flayer warg I has a lesser fraction of the impact of either.
Originally Posted by jfindlay
Aerdred scored a devastating hit with Stagger on Finmeister for 1,162 Beleriand damage to Morale. (and I had armor pots on)
Pfff how do you manage with such light dps?
:P
(BTW one of my crit bloody mauls was 382+bleeds of around 54ish, shadow stanced full dps build, LOL)
That 'is' low compared to all other freeps, especially in burst terms. I'm also lower dps normally than all ranked reavers, wargs and BAs, just not against me because part of it is by choice, gaining more mitigation because I gain greater %'ages from defensive choices to mits etc than I do packing offense options.
Originally Posted by Arathain.o.
...You really think Reavers are harder than Wargs and Blackarrows on a Guardian? lol...
For 1v1, of course. Do you not?
Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel
But true stuff and nonsense, too! So amen.
I keep trying, but for one I've only seen him out a few times recently, and also I'm crazy, so I hardly count.
This.
Quick clarification: what's the CD on the guard Sprint?
So much this! I remember after a 1v1 I asked you if you had any tips for me, and all you said was I did pretty much everything right, but you could do this, and then that, and maybe even some of the other if need be, and you would never lose to a BA if you didn't want to. That was before the latest update(s), though, and Idk why you seem to have changed your mind, but I'd love to get tips to improve against guards.
2mins.
When you asked I was struggling to answer, because really it needed better understanding of my class (on your part), which I've tried to give above. Mostly it was coming down to choices of timing and controlling the fights.
Originally Posted by Untg99
To have matchable finesse and skills you need to be a r10 BA before thinking about taking on a good guard. Even then, the guard has way too many options to avoid the combat if it's putting it at a disadvantage.
Unless it's a hunter or LM, the freep should be limiting themselves if they want a fair 1v1. Of course, because of some limitations, specific creepside counters should not be used to take advantage of that, but then again that freep will always have the option of using their cooldown.
Yes, but I 'have' pointed out that I wont run from a creep 1v1 unless they do something cheap.
I'm not sure an LM should need WotC vs half the creep classes.
@ Aer: LMs are not in a strong place for 1v1s right now... if the creep gets the jump on them and the creep is half decent, the Lm doesnt have much of a chance without popping cooldowns like CttV, lightning, Wotc, etc. I may only have this opinion because I'm rusty, but people i used to beat during SoM are currently facerolling me.
Treefnakh r6 warg Neverfear r7 WL, Treefraas r4 BA
BTW Aer, you saying you never run from 1v1's would be like saying I played Wrok like Shap(Nothing against your playstyle Shap you know me, you and Lush did some silly things and had some major fun doing so but I couldn't bring myself to keep that playstyle with some of the things the freeps would do so not a single bit of infamy flowed even with us basically feeding them.)
I'm sure you or a buddy will come back and say you never did but there are many of us that would pass a polly saying different, so keep that dream your not really a coward like so many you've called so.
@ Aer: LMs are not in a strong place for 1v1s right now... if the creep gets the jump on them and the creep is half decent, the Lm doesnt have much of a chance without popping cooldowns like CttV, lightning, Wotc, etc. I may only have this opinion because I'm rusty, but people i used to beat during SoM are currently facerolling me.
I'm of the opinion LMs are gimped 1v1 currently, though only surpassed in having issues by hunters. The difference is; a LM has a couple of classes it can likely beat, and some that they stand zero chance against a ranked and smart player of. Whereas a hunter has a struggle against most in the same fashion.
The discussion of how LMs fair in 1v1's had not come up in the thread overly however, and you may be thinking I was saying guards are in the worst place for 1v1's when what I was speaking about was in fact single-target dps. For which LM's destroy guards on parses even on resetting dummies where the dot reset impacts LMs more than a guard.
Wrok, I never said you weren't being concise. I said I 'was'. Now, however, I will go ahead and say that last post indeed indicates you should work on it. I'll continue to be of the opinion that you played consistently in a cowardly fashion your entire time playing here, which is a whole other matter to the principals upon which I played.
Wrok, I never said you weren't being concise. I said I 'was'. Now, however, I will go ahead and say that last post indeed indicates you should work on it. I'll continue to be of the opinion that you played consistently in a cowardly fashion your entire time playing here, which is a whole other matter to the principals upon which I played.
Adios.
Aww you hurt my feeling, let me go get my other one so I can move on with my life again after this heart breaking moment.......
Alright good to go again, good to see you want to leave things on a high note I do really hope you do one day get a clue but we shall see.
Rofl, he is r10 cons... See my dear shap, this is why I told you to make a reaver! Charge in = soo your style. + die = more so your style. Plus! Then you can kill Naeg at r5 and then retire. :>!! lol <3
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