Thread: Finally the question is answered

Q13: Why haven't you revamped PvMP? – Johan "Purebloodnakh" Hughes

A: This is kind of a loaded question, but I’ll make an attempt. This really comes down to what you consider a ‘revamp’ and what timeframe you expect said ‘revamp’ to occur in. Revising an established system without potentially destroying what made it enjoyable to begin with is no simple undertaking and requires that we put careful consideration into each revision. Essentially taking baby steps towards our ultimate goal: create a fun PvP zone where players can engage in both small and large scale skirmishes of their choosing.
Over the last two years we’ve taken steps to strengthen the foundations of PvMP through Creep class rebalancing, introduction of new advancement rewards, and the addition of a PvMP Currency and Stat that allows us to create a ‘seasonal’ mechanic in the Ettenmoors. More revisions are coming to further drive forward our goals. - Jared "Kelsan" Pruett

By far, the most unreal, pathetic, ridiculous answer i have ever heard.

THANKS FOR ANSWERING THAT, THATS WHAT WE NEEEEEEEDED. TELL US MOAR OF YOUR TRUTHFUL ANSWERS, I WANT MOARRR PLZ.

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

Q13: Why haven't you revamped PvMP? – Johan "Purebloodnakh" Hughes

A: This is kind of a loaded question, but I’ll make an attempt. This really comes down to what you consider a ‘revamp’ and what timeframe you expect said ‘revamp’ to occur in. Revising an established system without potentially destroying what made it enjoyable to begin with is no simple undertaking and requires that we put careful consideration into each revision. Essentially taking baby steps towards our ultimate goal: create a fun PvP zone where players can engage in both small and large scale skirmishes of their choosing.
Over the last two years we’ve taken steps to strengthen the foundations of PvMP through Creep class rebalancing, introduction of new advancement rewards, and the addition of a PvMP Currency and Stat that allows us to create a ‘seasonal’ mechanic in the Ettenmoors. More revisions are coming to further drive forward our goals. - Jared "Kelsan" Pruett

My emphasis within that quote.

Is that a genuine answer?

They haven't got a clue what they are doing.

What else needs be said?

When was this?

Originally Posted by Squelcher

When was this?

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...16#post6202816

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

Q13: Why haven't you revamped PvMP? – Johan "Purebloodnakh" Hughes

A: This is kind of a loaded question, but I’ll make an attempt. This really comes down to what you consider a ‘revamp’ and what timeframe you expect said ‘revamp’ to occur in.

Two expansions ago, like was originally said.

Revising an established system *LOL* without potentially destroying what made it enjoyable to begin with is no simple undertaking and requires that we put careful consideration into each revision.

But they don't. They barely even test mechanics before throwing it on live. Bullroarer /bug reports are constantly ignored.

Essentially taking baby steps

There have yet to be any baby steps. Turbine is constantly swaying the balance from one side to the other in drastic proportions. Implementing a new currency into an already severely flawed system before tweaking the balance was a very poor decision as well.

I'm just going to stop there. Realized I really don't care anymore.

de·lu·sion   [dih-loo-zhuhn]
noun

Psychiatry . a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact

I think they're just making excuses to keep us quiet.

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

Q13: Why haven't you revamped PvMP? – Johan "Purebloodnakh" Hughes

A: This really comes down to what you consider a ‘revamp’ and what timeframe you expect said ‘revamp’ to occur in. Jared "Kelsan" Pruett

re·vamp (r-vmp)
tr.v. re·vamped, re·vamp·ing, re·vamps
1. To patch up or restore; renovate.
2. To revise or reconstruct (a manuscript, for example)

Timeframe? Within the last five years

I would tear the hell out of the response from Kelsan, but it doesn't even matter. No reason to even get pissy over this either.

Not a surprising answer, but does anyone really give a frak anymore?

is giving us the bird a part of your revamp plans?

Same Q&A session

"Creeps don’t have a traditional leveling experience, that’s because being a Creep is about PvP. We want you to be able to join the PvP battle the moment you enter the world. - Jared "Kelsan" Pruett"

Yup, pretty obvious the developers don't have a single clue. Couldn't be more blissfully moronic if they tried.

So this is what closure feels like.

Originally Posted by Wilkor

Same Q&A session

"Creeps don’t have a traditional leveling experience, that’s because being a Creep is about PvP. We want you to be able to join the PvP battle the moment you enter the world. - Jared "Kelsan" Pruett"

Yup, pretty obvious the developers don't have a single clue. Couldn't be more blissfully moronic if they tried.

Definitely raised an eyebrow there. As a newly made Creep you need to grind for ages before you are remotely viable.

Originally Posted by Wilkor

Same Q&A session

"Creeps don’t have a traditional leveling experience, that’s because being a Creep is about PvP. We want you to be able to join the PvP battle the moment you enter the world. - Jared "Kelsan" Pruett"

Yup, pretty obvious the developers don't have a single clue. Couldn't be more blissfully moronic if they tried.

The bigest irony, or sadest part of this quote...is LIKE USUAL they shoot themeselves in the foot when they attempt an intelligent answer:

We want you to be able to join the PvP battle the moment you enter the world....VIZ A VIE PVE QUESTS to gain infamy/reknown to gain ranks. So, in essence to help you better enjoy PLAYER VS PLAYER we want to force you to do PVE quests to gain commendactions/inf/reknown.

Turbine: "Oh, but you dont HAVE to do the PVE quests that cheapen and minimalize ranks (that previously took YEARS to get)"
Player: "In that case, how about we automatically earn X Comms/inf/reknown every X hours we PVP..."
Turbine: ".....no, no,..... players love time sinks...and they love being minimalized by trivial quests...a perfect example is when we made the Anniv skins: one of the new Warg skin is the EXACT SAME as the r13 skin... how is that minimalizing five years of effort ? "
Player: "......"
Turbine: "Ah, another happy customer. Next."

Nothing the developers say will make the PvP community happy at this point, which is very likely part of the reason they don't enter into a dialogue on the forums with us about it. Most people here are disgruntled and dissatisfied - why would they try to get enter into a discussion when they would be burned at the stake? Look what happens when an answer is given in the Q&A even. I don't blame him one bit for not coming into this bee's nest.

I see his answer as both accurate and honest. They HAVE made improvements, changes and advancements in our zone. Everyone knows what they are - and if players don't have the longevity in this game to realize it, they're going to mean very little. But there have been all those changes made, undeniably. Were they all the right ones? No. Of course not. Are they the changes most of us wish for? Maybe not. But changes there have been, and it sounds like they have not written us off yet.

We complain in hopes we will be heard and our problems addressed and fixed. In 5+ yrs, we have seen minimal--next to no--results in that. So either Turbine does not care, does not have the ability (lack of training or personnel), or their superiors are clueless and not giving good directions to the workforce.
Poor communication between Turbine and the customer base has only fueled more speculation and mistrust.
The bird in the Moors showed us the dev team does not think of us in a respectful way. Everyone knows what giving the bird means and we have not found it a mature way to handle our frustration.
That being said-- we can choose to play and derive as much enjoyment as we can from it, or move on to other games or hobbies that bring us less grief.
After being on numerous betas, and later in the games...I have seen really well oiled dev teams go above and beyond anything Turbine does. This makes it harder for me to feel a tolerance for Turbine when they screw up badly or give a snide remark/attitude. Perhaps they really cannot perform any higher than they already do, for whatever reason. That reason not likely going to be communicated to us to let us have a better understanding of their position.

Originally Posted by DixieDarling

We complain in hopes we will be heard and our problems addressed and fixed. In 5+ yrs, we have seen minimal--next to no--results in that. So either Turbine does not care, does not have the ability (lack of training or personnel), or their superiors are clueless and not giving good directions to the workforce.
Poor communication between Turbine and the customer base has only fueled more speculation and mistrust.
The bird in the Moors showed us the dev team does not think of us in a respectful way. Everyone knows what giving the bird means and we have not found it a mature way to handle our frustration.
That being said-- we can choose to play and derive as much enjoyment as we can from it, or move on to other games or hobbies that bring us less grief.
After being on numerous betas, and later in the games...I have seen really well oiled dev teams go above and beyond anything Turbine does. This makes it harder for me to feel a tolerance for Turbine when they screw up badly or give a snide remark/attitude. Perhaps they really cannot perform any higher than they already do, for whatever reason. That reason not likely going to be communicated to us to let us have a better understanding of their position.

Please leave the bird out of this, i am still grinding him for my bird slayer title.

And yet here you all are responding like you honestly didn't know better. I doubt anyone really even cares anymore, I sure don't.

Lost hope for pvp on this game when they promised new pvp maps for the past 2 expansions

Only thing to do now is wait for GW2 and Halo 4

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Nothing the developers say will make the PvP community happy at this point, which is very likely part of the reason they don't enter into a dialogue on the forums with us about it. Most people here are disgruntled and dissatisfied - why would they try to get enter into a discussion when they would be burned at the stake? Look what happens when an answer is given in the Q&A even. I don't blame him one bit for not coming into this bee's nest.

I see his answer as both accurate and honest. They HAVE made improvements, changes and advancements in our zone. Everyone knows what they are - and if players don't have the longevity in this game to realize it, they're going to mean very little. But there have been all those changes made, undeniably. Were they all the right ones? No. Of course not. Are they the changes most of us wish for? Maybe not. But changes there have been, and it sounds like they have not written us off yet.

Not sure if trolling or just mad....

Serious note: made a R0 creep on a new server, with lots of pvmp (German servers ftw hehe) to check out how it would be to start from scratch on creep. Rank 4 now in 2 days and still a cannon fodder (even though I play War leader) coz of lack of commendations to even get me the r0-2 skills.... Can imagine how long till I get 7aud:P But will keep grinding, then maybe I can contribute to the pvmp there, besides feeding the freeps, in about 1 month.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Nothing the developers say will make the PvP community happy at this point, which is very likely part of the reason they don't enter into a dialogue on the forums with us about it. Most people here are disgruntled and dissatisfied - why would they try to get enter into a discussion when they would be burned at the stake? Look what happens when an answer is given in the Q&A even. I don't blame him one bit for not coming into this bee's nest.

I see his answer as both accurate and honest. They HAVE made improvements, changes and advancements in our zone. Everyone knows what they are - and if players don't have the longevity in this game to realize it, they're going to mean very little. But there have been all those changes made, undeniably. Were they all the right ones? No. Of course not. Are they the changes most of us wish for? Maybe not. But changes there have been, and it sounds like they have not written us off yet.

Can you blame us?

When Kelsan was made PvP dev he said he would communicate with the community and try and make PvP better, and so on. Has he? No.

Riders of Rohan will be the final nail in the coffin for PvP.

Originally Posted by Sulfur

And yet here you all are responding like you honestly didn't know better. I doubt anyone really even cares anymore, I sure don't.

227 posts says you do

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Nothing the developers say will make the PvP community happy at this point, which is very likely part of the reason they don't enter into a dialogue on the forums with us about it. Most people here are disgruntled and dissatisfied - why would they try to get enter into a discussion when they would be burned at the stake? Look what happens when an answer is given in the Q&A even. I don't blame him one bit for not coming into this bee's nest.

I see his answer as both accurate and honest. They HAVE made improvements, changes and advancements in our zone. Everyone knows what they are - and if players don't have the longevity in this game to realize it, they're going to mean very little. But there have been all those changes made, undeniably. Were they all the right ones? No. Of course not. Are they the changes most of us wish for? Maybe not. But changes there have been, and it sounds like they have not written us off yet.

I see in your signature you are a Rank 12 MINSTRAL, of coarse you are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. LOL Enjoy your god mode!

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Most people here are disgruntled and dissatisfied - why would they try to get enter into a discussion when they would be burned at the stake? Look what happens when an answer is given in the Q&A even.

A. We have every right to be dissatisfied.
B. The answer is ridiculous. They have, over 5 years, only made the balance WORSE up to this point. The 'baby steps' they refer to are, in fact, giant steps in the wrong direction.

Read for comprehension. I am including myself in the dissatisifed group...

Just offering up my opinion as to why they don't engage in a dialogue.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

They have, over 5 years, only made the balance WORSE up to this point. The 'baby steps' they refer to are, in fact, giant steps in the wrong direction.

As someone who played a creep from launch, I strongly disagree. Perma mez anyone?

Originally Posted by Ames

As someone who played a creep from launch, I strongly disagree. Perma mez anyone?

I'll have to agree here, creep has come a long way from the beginning, just not far enough.

Originally Posted by Daec

I'll have to agree here, creep has come a long way from the beginning, just not far enough.

Yeah I have to agree in I've been only playing two years and there have been plenty of improvements to creepside. Green circles were pretty bad back when I started. Granted, DP was easier to obtain. The thing is that freeps have gotten PvE boosts off the deep end, and that's fine because that's the main design of the game. I firmly believe they simply don't have a budget/time to give the proper upgrade PvP requires. If they tried, it would be sacrificing time spent on new content and expanding PvE to benefit the majority of the players.

I believe that we will be victims of our own loyalty. Too many dedicated PvP'ers has given Turbine latitude in making changes to PvP. I am also under the impression that lot of Freeps(a.k.a still subbed) are lifetimers... not a whole lot of ways to suck more money out of them other than expansions. Could be shots in the dark, but I follow the money trail on this one. If they could profit from whole sale changes without incurring great cost they would do so.

eh at least he said somethin rather then ignoring the question altogether....

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

227 posts says you do

Wildly assuming every single post was in the same forum on the same topic, sure. Otherwise bad trolling, 1/10

Originally Posted by DreagonMK

I'm just going to stop there. Realized I really don't care anymore.

Originally Posted by Ames

As someone who played a creep from launch, I strongly disagree. Perma mez anyone?

Well, back in SoA I'd say the balance was at it's best, though MoM was another low point. Many old creeps I know seem to agree that it is at its worst right now.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

Well, back in SoA I'd say the balance was at it's best, though MoM was another low point. Many old creeps I know seem to agree that it is at its worst right now.

It´s worst right now because of the uncapped stats. They balanced Creeps DPS/Healing/etc. against U4 Freeps, not U7 Freeps

The increase in stats Freeps have seen, most notibly with U5 (the release of ToO gear, the doubling of all Mastery, Crit, etc. on every piece of gear) and U6 (Limlight Gorge anyone?) is just not comparable to the buffs Freeps got between SoM and U3.

Remember the Stoneheight Bracelet everyone had? It was 23 Will/Vitality/Fate, 225 Morale, 100 Power. Everyone used it instead of the Moria or Mirkwood bracelets (I remember one with 22 Will/Vitality/Fate, ~170 Morale, ~150 Power)

That´s basicly a bit more Morale instead of Power and 1 Will/Vitality/Fate

Now the difference between the pieces each update brings is much higher, thus causing more imbalance

Originally Posted by Sulfur

Wildly assuming every single post was in the same forum on the same topic, sure. Otherwise bad trolling, 1/10

over 200+ posts in less than a month

Originally Posted by Sulfur

I doubt anyone really even cares anymore, I sure don't.

Would hate to see your post count if you were interested in the game

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

over 200+ posts in less than a month



Would hate to see your post count if you were interested in the game

1/10 jimmies still aren't rustled. Try harder.

We want more attention for PvP we need more traffic. Talk all those 75's running around, that have never set foot in the 'Moors, into coming out and PvP'ing. More Freeps & more Creeps = more dev love.

Get on it nubs!

Gut Out!

How long will the grind be for a new player after season 4?

my answer on their answer:

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

Over the last two years we’ve taken steps to strengthen the foundations of PvMP through Creep class rebalancing, introduction of new advancement rewards, and the addition of a PvMP Currency and Stat that allows us to create a ‘seasonal’ mechanic in the Ettenmoors. More revisions are coming to further drive forward our goals.