Thread: Nerf Wargs.

I'm going to get flamed. I know. You're going to say I'm just an ezmode freep who doesn't have it easy anymore. But if you truly don't believe wargs need nerfed atm, you're delusional or you need to quit lying to yourself. With the majority of creeps being fotm packing wargs, the moors just isn't fun with the shape of the class.

Originally Posted by Thanksagainstupid

I'm going to get flamed. I know. You're going to say I'm just an ezmode freep who doesn't have it easy anymore. But if you truly don't believe wargs need nerfed atm, you're delusional or you need to quit lying to yourself. With the majority of creeps being fotm packing wargs, the moors just isn't fun with the shape of the class.

So the class needs to be nerfed because multiple warg kill a single target easily?

P.S: Obvious troll

Originally Posted by Thanksagainstupid

Wargs have it pretty bad right now, I agree with OP.

;-)

The real problem is that with wargs easily being the strongest creep class, everyone is playing wargs which is overall not that fun or interesting to fight against.

Originally Posted by MrFreddy

The real problem is that with wargs easily being the strongest creep class, everyone is playing wargs which is overall not that fun or interesting to fight against.

This.


There is far too much of a disparity on creepside for it to work out any other way. Blackarrows are probably the only other bet as far as "fun" or "dps" classes on creepside. Reavers are so absolutely pathetic right now that very few play them. WL & Defiler rely solely on grouping to get their infamy/commendations. There is literally no incentive to play anything but a Warg or a Blackarrrow because they have it easiest out there.

If you are going to nerf wargs you need to absolutely destroy the minstrel healing capability in Warspeech.

Originally Posted by Murtanion

This.


There is far too much of a disparity on creepside for it to work out any other way. Blackarrows are probably the only other bet as far as "fun" or "dps" classes on creepside. Reavers are so absolutely pathetic right now that very few play them. WL & Defiler rely solely on grouping to get their infamy/commendations. There is literally no incentive to play anything but a Warg or a Blackarrrow because they have it easiest out there.

If you are going to nerf wargs you need to absolutely destroy the minstrel healing capability in Warspeech.

If you're going to nerf Wargs you're going to have to absolutely destroy Mins healing capabilities out of WS, too. And RKs. And Cappies.

Creep DPS can't keep up with Freep heals as is.

Wargs are definently not overpowered.

There is a problem however. If you're gonna make stealth classes strong, you have to think in a way to counter their breeding.

Burglars are way more overpowered than wargs, simple difference is: How fast you can pick up one and make him ready to PvP. Wargs just need 500 infamy and 2k comms, and there is Shadow. As far as I know, Pounce, Maul, Claws and CB are all starter skills. That's all a packing warg needs.

The biggest problem is people. When people see FOTM they just can help but avail.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

If you're going to nerf Wargs you're going to have to absolutely destroy Mins healing capabilities out of WS, too. And RKs. And Cappies.

Creep DPS can't keep up with Freep heals as is.

Honestly I wish they would smash all healing in the moors, imo it just makes it way too onesided. If you have heals and the other side doesnt, you generally just win at life.

Originally Posted by Murtanion

There is far too much of a disparity on creepside for it to work out any other way. Blackarrows are probably the only other bet as far as "fun" or "dps" classes on creepside. Reavers are so absolutely pathetic right now that very few play them. WL & Defiler rely solely on grouping to get their infamy/commendations. There is literally no incentive to play anything but a Warg or a Blackarrrow because they have it easiest out there.

It's funny how you didn't even mention spiders.

Poor weavers.

June 8-10th /drool. Sry what was the question? Oh right nerf wargs, sure go ahead. June 8-10th /drool.

There's just too many of them on average compared to other classes, nothing particularly op about them unless they're exploiting the cc pot bug atm (wink).

If there was 10+ champs running around together ganking stuff all the time, it's be about the same but alas there's not

So until the populations for wargs settles down, we'll have to stick out the spam knockdowns and stuns.

P.S. lol at the burg class atm.

Yeah nerf the wargs the one decent creep class.....to quote a popular freep commercial "its my EZ mode and I want it now". Go play a warg for a month then compare the experience to say; champ, mini or warden. LOL! You gotta be joking or deluded if you think the OPness is even the same category.

If you have some rank and play well, I'm pretty sure warg is in the same category. Don't think all wargs are fresh out the gate.

The possibility of 1k unavoidable hits with a 1s CD like...30% of the time, is entirely hardmode. Creepside is so weak, wargs are always rolling solo completely alone you guys.

Originally Posted by Sulfur

The possibility of 1k unavoidable hits with a 1s CD like...30% of the time, is entirely hardmode. Creepside is so weak, wargs are always rolling solo completely alone you guys.

I like when they bunch up, makes the hunting that much easier.

Originally Posted by Dercin

If you have some rank and play well, I'm pretty sure warg is in the same category. Don't think all wargs are fresh out the gate.

lol
1234567

I personally rolled a warg cause of being fluffy and the ability of escaping zergs. the only creep class that is....and that was when 65 was the cap.
The class aint OP, if you cant beat a warg 1v1 you must make a new strategy, I cant beat certain freeps in 1v1, but do I get to say nerf them? no. Get used to it.

Troll thread reached 2 pages. Success?

I´d nerf perma stealth, as I think perma stealth is lame design, but that´s just me (regardless of burg or warg, I just hate it, it encourages ganking and running away)

Lol at the nerf cries

Wargs 1v1 are not that hard. Between U6 and U7 I soloed quite a bit on my RK and I haven´t lost an open world 1v1, good Wargs are more or less as strong as Freeps who don´t blow cds.

When I use something like "Armor of Storm, Ceaseless Argument, Enamel, Scribe´s Spark, Essence of Storm, Perfect Imagery" the fight is pretty much over, then it´s just critting him to death with ~60% crit chance (even more on EC)

Without Armor of Storm, Enamels, Perfect Imagery, Parchment+EftA and several other skills it might actually become a challenging fight

Though right now I enjoy Raid Healing much more, just give me a good pocket LM, we RKs are just amazing Healers out there and always very welcome

Originally Posted by Thanksagainstupid

I'm going to get flamed. I know. You're going to say I'm just an ezmode freep who doesn't have it easy anymore. But if you truly don't believe wargs need nerfed atm, you're delusional or you need to quit lying to yourself. With the majority of creeps being fotm packing wargs, the moors just isn't fun with the shape of the class.

You're just an ezmode freep who doesn't have it easy anymore. Oh wait, you still have it very easy.


anyways, groups of any class will beat you unless you're a healing rk, warden or a champion. I'm guessing you're neither of the 3.

As a hunter I have a love/hate relationshp with wargs (very little of the former tbh )

Obervations: If I get jumped off horse by high rank warg (as happened last night - he sprinted & branded too!) I am toast - no problems I accept it as an occupational hazard - and one very good reason to spam track and move slowly with lots of camo.

My problem is if i get the jump on the warg - they get away almost every time (again last night - ROT, Barbed arrow, PS,PS,PS... - his morale is dropping like a stone - POOF! gone - drop combat re-track nothing).

Balance this by not nerfing wargs but by fixing hunters (pick 1 of...)

1. Remove HS crosshairs.
2. Make PO instant.
3. Make DF 200% 8 sec sprint (although tbh putting it back it back as it was but allowing inf to creeps if bleeds kill u would be fine).
4. Horseback tracking.
5. Put stealth levels back on our gear (should have been an option on one of the PVP sets).

By the way I will be un-ashamedly using store brands until Turbine address hunter PVMP probs (which I know is shooting myself in the foot by giving them TP's sigh )

They aren't OP, there are just so many of them. Turbine made the warg the only creep class that doesn't suck, so of course everyone is going to roll a warg. However, it is annoying getting ganked by 5 wargs everytime you try to cross WB/SB.
Once Turbine makes changes to other classes, Im sure the population will even out more.

And honestly, if you have rank7 audacity, good jewlery, decent LI's, and you know your class, you should have no problem with any one warg.

Originally Posted by Nookdook

As a hunter I have a love/hate relationshp with wargs (very little of the former tbh )

Obervations: If I get jumped off horse by high rank warg (as happened last night - he sprinted & branded too!) I am toast - no problems I accept it as an occupational hazard - and one very good reason to spam track and move slowly with lots of camo.

My problem is if i get the jump on the warg - they get away almost every time (again last night - ROT, Barbed arrow, PS,PS,PS... - his morale is dropping like a stone - POOF! gone - drop combat re-track nothing).

Balance this by not nerfing wargs but by fixing hunters (pick 1 of...)

1. Remove HS crosshairs.
2. Make PO instant.
3. Make DF 200% 8 sec sprint (although tbh putting it back it back as it was but allowing inf to creeps if bleeds kill u would be fine).
4. Horseback tracking.
5. Put stealth levels back on our gear (should have been an option on one of the PVP sets).

By the way I will be un-ashamedly using store brands until Turbine address hunter PVMP probs (which I know is shooting myself in the foot by giving them TP's sigh )

If hunters get better at melee, wargs want to get better at ranged. You can't have the best of both worlds, hunters can still defend themselves against most wargs. Hunters are strong but not op.

Originally Posted by Esegar

Wargs are definently not overpowered...
The biggest problem is people. When people see FOTM they just can help but avail.

I think the biggest problem is not people choosing FOTM as choosing a creep class that can stand his ground against any freep class. Wargs/BAs are the only class creep side that are roughly on par with freeps. Cant blame people to choose them.

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

I think the biggest problem is not people choosing FOTM as choosing a creep class that can stand his ground against any freep class. Wargs/BAs are the only class creep side that are roughly on par with freeps. Cant blame people to choose them.

Bingo!

1234567

A good defiler is incredibly hard to beat, there's just so few of them.


As for wargs, they are without a doubt the strongest creep class. Even with R1 audacity, I have excellent odds in a 1v1 vs everyone except minstrels, heal spamming wardens, and good champs. Otherwise, game over.


Minstrels are really the class that needs nerfed. Talking with a friend who's played with me for over 4 years, we decided that the current minstrel class is the most OP class on either side in the entire history of PvMP. They're stronger than physical DPSers in MoM, RKs in Mirkwood, etc. Literally, they are the definition of EZmode.

Hey I know what to do! Buff all the other creep classes until wargs really stink....... bingo, problem solved.

I almost choked when I saw this thread. Calling for any creep class to be nerfed while most Freep classes are still op is insane. Wargs are not overpowered (no creep class is) is just that fact that there are too many of them. Balanced pvp might fix the problem, but of course Turbine doesn't want to do that!

As others have already said, Warg and Blackarrow are really the only 2 creep classes able to tango with the Freeps. You shouldn't expect people to pick a class that will get stomped, and one that they will end up weeping excessively and pulling their hair out over. Why would you want to take that away from us? Sounds like ezmoding to me, not calling names though.

If warg is nerfed, I want mini and warden to be nerfed as well.
You freeps have it so good and yet you want more. Seriously?

If I leave here tomorrow
Would you still remember me?
For I must be traveling on, now
'Cause there's too many places I've got to see
But, if I stayed here with you, girl
Things just couldn't be the same
'Cause I'm as free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows, I can't change

Bye, bye, baby it's been a sweet love
Though this feeling I can't change
But please don't take it so badly
'Cause Lord knows I'm to blame
But, if I stayed here with you girl
Things just couldn't be the same
'Cause I'm as free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And the bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows, I can't change
Lord help me, I can't change

Lord I can't change
Won't you fly, free bird, yeah

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

I think the biggest problem is not people choosing FOTM as choosing a creep class that can stand his ground against any freep class. Wargs/BAs are the only class creep side that are roughly on par with freeps. Cant blame people to choose them.

I think that is still a stretch. It seems the new wargs give trouble to hunters and LMs, especially with the new brute induction interrupt, and that is about it and unless a BA has perfect movement and understanding of warden range or I miss on hampering jav they are quite easy to clean up as well. Seems like most other classes have little issue with BA or warg.

I have far more trouble with properly played spiders or defilers (have yet to figure out a solution to those damned traited flies other than store power pots and my lottery winnings ran out long ago.)

Originally Posted by TroyW

Hey I know what to do! Buff all the other creep classes until wargs really stink....... bingo, problem solved.

Signed.

Originally Posted by Sulfur

The possibility of 1k unavoidable hits with a 1s CD like...30% of the time, is entirely hardmode. Creepside is so weak, wargs are always rolling solo completely alone you guys.

Ya.... all those 1k super OP crits... on freeps with quest gear and 0 audacity... ya, those are still running around all over the place...

As for nerfing wargs, no, that's not the right answer. According to the OP, the problem was the warg packs. In order to get rid of warg packs, buff the other creep classes so warg's aren't the most appealing to greenies.

Originally Posted by Nookdook

By the way I will be un-ashamedly using store brands until Turbine address hunter PVMP probs (which I know is shooting myself in the foot by giving them TP's sigh )

Turbine number cruncher (TNC) number 1 - We need more revenue from the store, how can we do it?

TNC2 - Add bug fixes to the store?

TNC1 - Tempting. What about pvp?

TNC2 - Well, we're already fleecing the creeps pretty good. We make them buy their classes, buy their skills. Then we nerfed their skills, suckers never saw that coming, buy their maps etc. Not sure how much water there is left to squeeze from that stone.

TNC1 - We implemented the commendation system right?

TNC2 - Haha, yeah.

TNC1 - Okay, what about freeps?

TNC2 - Well, they all have to be monthly sub folks so unless we're talking about those cheesy little pots and things we can nickle and dime them on, but that won't be much rev.. Hey, are you thinking what I'm thinking?

TNC1 - Nefs the bastiches so they feel they need the pots?

TNC2 - Most of them are pretty OP though, alot of their design was done by Zombie Columbus, and he couldn't balance a brick on a tabletop. What do they need pots for? Hey wait, isn't he on...

TNC1 - Extenz?

TNC2 - HUNTERS, the biggest, juiciest pool of kids, grandpas and red headed step children in the game. We put old ZC on them, let him work his "magic" and then...

TNC1 - We have a huge pool of players nerfed to #### that feel if they are going to compete they need to buy all those ###### store pots and insignias, runspeed buffs.... Perfect.

TNC2 - We'll get him right on it, that sociopath won't even blink an eye.

TNC1 - Excellent. Next orrder of business, where are we on that new PVP Map?

TNC2 - Its coming with RoR, until we pull it again haha.

TNC1 - Gotta love it, here you go guys, enjoy... Psych!

Done is what Turbine would say.

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Ya.... all those 1k super OP crits... on freeps with quest gear and 0 audacity... ya, those are still running around all over the place...

As for nerfing wargs, no, that's not the right answer. According to the OP, the problem was the warg packs. In order to get rid of warg packs, buff the other creep classes so warg's aren't the most appealing to greenies.

Ever see a shadow warg duo'd with a WL? Out of curiosity I put on my isen set and took 4k in 3-4 hits. It's 1k+ even at audacity cap.

Oh whoops, nevermind. I forgot you're part of the "solo creep community" of Elendilmir, lololol. I don't think they're too strong personally, but on the basis of them alone. Which is....never the case.

Originally Posted by cmal

I think that is still a stretch. It seems the new wargs give trouble to hunters and LMs, especially with the new brute induction interrupt, and that is about it and unless a BA has perfect movement and understanding of warden range or I miss on hampering jav they are quite easy to clean up as well. Seems like most other classes have little issue with BA or warg.

So you want a nerf on the two creep classes who can put a fight vs two freeps classes ?

Har har har .

./patstheQQer

Nope. Just buff freeps some more.

Nerf wargs? while then hope you have other end game stuff to do because wargs are the only viable option left to creeps to pvp with all other classes are completely gimped to the high heavens compared to the abundance of mini's and champs that are running around. But you cant really blame the creep population for rolling wargs when the freeps are and have been doing the exact same for updates nigh on the begining of time.
This buff and nerf cycle that Turbine are doing is completely contradictory to goals they stated and objectives they wish to achieve, honestly they need to work towards to improving balancing and class improvements for the expansions and maintaining the balance throughout the updates but its too late, this last horrible cycle of being completely useless after 5 years of working on creeps is the last stray for many and GW2 is the game so many wished and asked Turbine to replicate in terms of epic siege's.

But sure nerf wargs if you want creep population to drop by 75% and a gross reduction of 50% of creep population when GW2 launches.

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Ya.... all those 1k super OP crits... on freeps with quest gear and 0 audacity... ya, those are still running around all over the place...

As for nerfing wargs, no, that's not the right answer. According to the OP, the problem was the warg packs. In order to get rid of warg packs, buff the other creep classes so warg's aren't the most appealing to greenies.

As a champ with 7 audacity and right under 8k tactical mitigation I CONSISTENTLY am hit with 800, 900, and 1k crits. Nearly every encounter with a r7-8+ warg if I scroll through my combat log I will see it. I'm not complaining, simply stating that it happens quite frequently.

Yeah, my burg at 7.5k tact mit and 7 audacity is constantly hit for 1k, lol. It's whatever though, moors suck either way.
1. Spam claws
2. Profit

Originally Posted by dantheman865301

Yeah, my burg at 7.5k tact mit and 7 audacity is constantly hit for 1k, lol. It's whatever though, moors suck either way.
1. Spam claws
2. Profit

I can say the same thing with RK's, spam the same attack critting for over 1k and mezzing each hit :/

Originally Posted by lucky100x

I can say the same thing with RK's, spam the same attack critting for over 1k and mezzing each hit :/

I suppose that is a viable point. My rk goes down much fast than my warg though, and to have a comparable critical chance, you'd have to be at at least 6 attunement for PI. And imagine how many claws a warg has spammed before you get there :P