2 RK 2 Burg 2 mini 1 guard = fair fight as far as freeps concerned, we get 1 kill
15+ STA lawn = fair fight for freeps we get nothing and die
At least now we know, and that is why I killl everyone I see no matter their numbers, so get over the crying about zergs. A 10 or 12 man group is not a zerg. 35+ freepball is.
Last edited by oninoakuma; May 31 2012 at 03:42 PM.
2 RK 2 Burg 2 mini 1 guard = fair fight as far as freeps concerned, we get 1 kill
15+ STA lawn = fair fight for freeps we get nothing and die
At least now we know, and that is why I killl everyone I see no matter their numbers, so get over the crying about zergs.
So...um...who are these noobs you're talking about?
When you see experienced PvMPers act like this let me know.
But regardless there's really only one thing to say in response to this post. It's an oldie but a goodie...and one that many players out there these days don't seem to remember.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
So...um...who are these noobs you're talking about?
When you see experienced PvMPers act like this let me know.
But regardless there's really only one thing to say in response to this post. It's an oldie but a goodie...and one that many players out there these days don't seem to remember.
Nope, just commenting on how it seems that you're complaining about the actions of no-names to justify your behaviour.
Either be a good player or don't. Just don't use other people's poor play as an excuse to be a poor player yourself.
Want to use noob behaviour to justify acting like one yourself? Go ahead.
That's my only point.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
Nope, just commenting on how it seems that you're complaining about the actions of no-names to justify your behaviour.
Either be a good player or don't. Just don't use other people's poor play as an excuse to be a poor player yourself.
Want to use noob behaviour to justify acting like one yourself? Go ahead.
That's my only point.
The real point should be that no one should seek to define who, other then their selves is a good player. None of us has the right, none of us are so perfect, that we should sit back and point fingers while decrying "bad players" in the direction of others.
A game is played as it is played in accordance with the drive of the player. I cannot recall any time in my life that the person who may have won the monopoly game stood up and started telling all the others around the table what they did wrong. If they had, that person would have found his or her self playing alone.
Why is it that MMO's are so replete with self ascribed experts, PVP or RP gods, and those who are little more then #######?
This game has become more combative then any I have ever played, Problem is, the fighting all too often takes place more on the forums, then in the game. Most of us will admit that balance in the moors is a joke. Most of us will agree that both sides are guilty of all too often bringing a cannon to a fist fight. But no one is so versed in gaming that they can stand up and declare the lack of skill any other person uses in their game play. It is simply ignorant to try to say all players should play as you do. And the constant bickering and posturing only serves to tear apart and destroy all aspects of fun this game once held.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
It's not. But you need to know what happens in practice to understand that that comment means something more than what it states on the surface.
I'm talking about players who unapologetically raid when there is no raid level opposition.
I'm talking about players who will chase and map in front of a solo player with a half a raid of creeps including some VERY high ranked players.
I'm talking about players who often is seen targeting areas of opportunity with substantially larger numbers for extended periods of time.
Look, I'm a HUGE proponent of taking what the moors gives you and fighting what you find. But that's not what happens in practice with some players. What happens when some players like to roll over smaller groups and seem to disband and disappear once substantial opposition exists.
THEN a post on the forums claiming all kinds of indignation when other players behave similarly....with a statement that others should therefore not complain about zerging...as if one poor play is justification for another.
It's kinda frustrating to see. Because it's EXACTLY what is wrong with the moors. BOTH sides claiming they act the way they do ONLY BECAUSE of the other side's actions.
I could've formed up a raid the other night and CRUSHED the raid that chased me from HH to SoP, mapping players in front of me to cut me off and grinding me into a paste with over 100 ranks of creeps vs me alone. I could've rallied players from PvE and rolled the map blue and sent the creeps to the forums to cry about the freep zerg.
But I don't answer bad play with bad play. And I don't use others play as an excuse for mine.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
The real point should be that no one should seek to define who, other then their selves is a good player. None of us has the right, none of us are so perfect, that we should sit back and point fingers while decrying "bad players" in the direction of others.
A game is played as it is played in accordance with the drive of the player. I cannot recall any time in my life that the person who may have won the monopoly game stood up and started telling all the others around the table what they did wrong. If they had, that person would have found his or her self playing alone.
Why is it that MMO's are so replete with self ascribed experts, PVP or RP gods, and those who are little more then #######?
This game has become more combative then any I have ever played, Problem is, the fighting all too often takes place more on the forums, then in the game. Most of us will admit that balance in the moors is a joke. Most of us will agree that both sides are guilty of all too often bringing a cannon to a fist fight. But no one is so versed in gaming that they can stand up and declare the lack of skill any other person uses in their game play. It is simply ignorant to try to say all players should play as you do. And the constant bickering and posturing only serves to tear apart and destroy all aspects of fun this game once held.
I'll have to check my post. But I never said bad player. And I CERTAINLY was not commenting on ANYONE's ability as a player. I said poor play. And by that I mean making gameplay choices that are lame, unsportsmanlike, and overall all around jerky.
Nothing about skill. Never will you see me commenting on, or belittling someone based on skill. Partially because I'm not really that skilled, partially because those are things not really controllable by the player.
But poor CHOICES. Those are actively and consciously made. Sometimes I think people don't consider the ramifications of their choices, but nevertheless they CHOOSE to play that way.
>When raids zerg a keep to kill 1-2 opponents that's not "fighting what you find". That's being a jerk. (and becomming more and more common ever since Audacity was introduced and npcs weren't scaled appropriately)
>When raids track/map and chase a solo across half the map, that's not "fighting what you find". That's being a jerk.
>When stealth classes persistantly and aggressively smash smaller groups yet avoid larger groups...yep...you know it.
That's poor play. Nothing about deciding who is a good player or bad. Just talking about their decisions and how they choose to act. /shrug
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
You should have rallied the people and crushed them. That would have been epic.
It is really epic to take 30 and smash 12? Roll the map, watch 8 of those 12 switch to your side so you can finish grinding the only 4 creeps on the map back at Grams with 38? All the while the VERY few freeps and creeps who would rather roam the map twiddle their thumbs not finding anything on the map?
It happens commonly enough...BOTH ways. Almost every night. But I'll not do it.
I'm embarrassed enough when I find myself supporting a keep take that ends up relatively undefended...this happens often when one side is flippy flopping and although there WAS just moments ago reasonable opposition they break up and swap sides or log and we end up with a virtual no-show at one keep. Sad. Embarassing. Not something I like being a part of.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
2 RK 2 Burg 2 mini 1 guard = fair fight as far as freeps concerned, we get 1 kill
15+ STA lawn = fair fight for freeps we get nothing and die
At least now we know, and that is why I killl everyone I see no matter their numbers, so get over the crying about zergs. A 10 or 12 man group is not a zerg. 35+ freepball is.
10-12 is a full blown over the top zerg to 1-4 players. No doubt about it. And I've seen PLENTY of times where 10-12 run right into TR kill ONE freep and run right out the top just to jump off and run away. THEN repeat it when 2 more freeps show up.
All numbers are relative. Behaviours are not.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
I'll have to check my post. But I never said bad player. And I CERTAINLY was not commenting on ANYONE's ability as a player. I said poor play. And by that I mean making gameplay choices that are lame, unsportsmanlike, and overall all around jerky.
Nothing about skill. Never will you see me commenting on, or belittling someone based on skill. Partially because I'm not really that skilled, partially because those are things not really controllable by the player.
But poor CHOICES. Those are actively and consciously made. Sometimes I think people don't consider the ramifications of their choices, but nevertheless they CHOOSE to play that way.
>When raids zerg a keep to kill 1-2 opponents that's not "fighting what you find". That's being a jerk. (and becomming more and more common ever since Audacity was introduced and npcs weren't scaled appropriately)
>When raids track/map and chase a solo across half the map, that's not "fighting what you find". That's being a jerk.
>When stealth classes persistantly and aggressively smash smaller groups yet avoid larger groups...yep...you know it.
That's poor play. Nothing about deciding who is a good player or bad. Just talking about their decisions and how they choose to act. /shrug
It was not really directed at you Luc. More a build up of the frustrating behavior too often seen on the boards.
But I will say that two of your examples above go for both sides of the moors. Freeps and creeps are guilty of the same behavior mostly due to the constant flipping to farm commendations. I have had a freep raid charge into a keep just to kill me, then pull out. I have seen this happen also to other players.
I have seen small groups happily target solo or duo creeps over and over. One case happened last week where a small group tracked down and killed Daizee over and over. And Daizee is one of the nicest players in the moors, so I doubt anyone was targeting her because she deserved it.
This has become the mind set of the moors, where in we are sacrificing good play all too often for a quick gain. That is not to say there are not still fun fights to be had. But no freep can call foul on a creep or creep decry freep behavior without first looking to their own side.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
So...um...who are these noobs you're talking about?
When you see experienced PvMPers act like this let me know.
But regardless there's really only one thing to say in response to this post. It's an oldie but a goodie...and one that many players out there these days don't seem to remember.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Its sad but there are not enough experienced and respectful players to make a difference here. When small grouping on creep or freepside an even fight comes once every blue moon or however that phrase goes....
It is really epic to take 30 and smash 12? Roll the map, watch 8 of those 12 switch to your side so you can finish grinding the only 4 creeps on the map back at Grams with 38? All the while the VERY few freeps and creeps who would rather roam the map twiddle their thumbs not finding anything on the map?
It happens commonly enough...BOTH ways. Almost every night. But I'll not do it.
I'm embarrassed enough when I find myself supporting a keep take that ends up relatively undefended...this happens often when one side is flippy flopping and although there WAS just moments ago reasonable opposition they break up and swap sides or log and we end up with a virtual no-show at one keep. Sad. Embarassing. Not something I like being a part of.
OH, you said it was a raid chasing you around, so I figured 20+.
But still, under the scenario you outlined, yes...
10-12 is a full blown over the top zerg to 1-4 players. No doubt about it. And I've seen PLENTY of times where 10-12 run right into TR kill ONE freep and run right out the top just to jump off and run away. THEN repeat it when 2 more freeps show up.
All numbers are relative. Behaviours are not.
And I will continue to do these things. The game itself promotes bad play. And a rank 11 or 12 whatever you are killing some greenie at the slugs is a zerg too.
The really sad thin is that much of what happens should not. When a freep raid consisting of 28-34 players runs the map blue, then logs, it leaves those freeps still on to face the creep anger. It is folly to think creeps should sit and fight at the OC rez all night rather then running the map back red. Keep in mind our maps depend on quests in keeps.
It is a sad thing to watch a hand full of freeps trying to defend the keeps, but no sadder then having been in the group of nine creeps trying to defend against the blue wave.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
The really sad thin is that much of what happens should not. When a freep raid consisting of 28-34 players runs the map blue, then logs, it leaves those freeps still on to face the creep anger. It is folly to think creeps should sit and fight at the OC rez all night rather then running the map back red. Keep in mind our maps depend on quests in keeps.
It is a sad thing to watch a hand full of freeps trying to defend the keeps, but no sadder then having been in the group of nine creeps trying to defend against the blue wave.
Agreed, its even gotten to a breaking point of frustration since I play late at night. When the freeps are rolling it you can get some decent solo/small group fights, but when it is flipped its only a matter of time before the pwnage begins. I basically have my butt served to me on a silver platter x 15 until I rage log. I could "roam" but "roaming" usually ends up in outnumbered fiascos, anyway. Not saying its impossible to prosper when the map is getting owned either way, but its hard to argue that it doesn't diminish.
It seems to me its just a meta-problem with the design of the moors, or the way in which players are using the design (which is the design, anyway). Any design that requires the player to ignore the premise of the zone entirely to even survive is flawed.
Last edited by Stanimir; May 31 2012 at 05:45 PM.
Bid them achieve me and then sell my bones.
-Henry V
Agreed, its even gotten to a breaking point of frustration since I play late at night. When the freeps are rolling it you can get some decent solo/small group fights, but when it is flipped its only a matter of time before the pwnage begins. I basically have my butt served to me on a silver platter x 15 until I rage log. I could "roam" but "roaming" usually ends up in outnumbered fiascos, anyway. Not saying its impossible to prosper when the map is getting owned either way, but its hard to argue that it doesn't diminish.
It seems to me its just a meta-problem with the design of the moors, or the way in which players are using the design (which is the design, anyway). Any design that requires the player to ignore the premise of the zone entirely to even survive is flawed.
I agree about roaming, but at LEAST you have the opportunity for the upside of roaming, which is diverse, dynamic, and varied fighting. Something that is nearly 100% lost in the "pooled" areas where people just flock to smash into each other. The "where's the fight", and "invite to raid" players.
Look, if that's really what people want. More power to them. But I think these counter roaming groups (groups of reasonable size squishing roaming solos and small groups) that have become prevalent that ARE (despite what people will admit to) meant to steamroll smaller numbers while avoiding the zerg, are really really problematic.
Are they a result of frustrations from the zerg? Perhaps.
Does that justify their existance? No. In fact, they end up doing EXACTLY what they hate.
And I recognize, I hoenstly do, that we ALL have the right to be selfish in our gameplay. In a well designed and implemented game the incentives would be for gameplay that is NOT selfish. The penalties would be towards selfish play. But this is NOT a well designed and implemented game. So we see bad behaviours left and right.
---
IMHO Turbine has something special in the moors. I personally enjoy it (and in particular the feel and timing of combat---albeit less than in SoA) more than any MMO I've played...and I've played most of the AAA titles...WoW being the most obvious exception.
I just think that over time we as a community have taken incremental steps towards worse and worse play. And along the path we've justified our steps by the steps other players took before us. Too many players in this game are feeling frustrated and victimized and that leads to feeling justified and empowered to return the favour against those they view as the source of their frustration.
Sad but true. Frankly, I see it going back to the initial design decision to have creeps power up with ranks, and freeps NOT scale with rank. Then there was V1B12 that over-incentivized large groups over any other size....and there have beeen many many steps small and large since then both Turbine generated and player driven (superiour tactics anyone?) that have led us to where we are.
But IMHO we CAN choose to play the game in a fun way. The question is are enough people willing to back off of the escalation model long enough to change the overall feel and gameplay?
I honestly don't know.
I don't think wargpacks and callouts and fight clubs, and zerging are the answer. I know that much.
But will enough players be willing to group when necessary and NOT group when not necessary. To spread out and utalize the whole map. To try and fight the good fight, and try to not fight the bad fight. To try and recognize that creeps are freeps and freeps are creeps.
I just don't know...
I know I WANT to. I know I TRY to...
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
I agree about roaming, but at LEAST you have the opportunity for the upside of roaming, which is diverse, dynamic, and varied fighting. Something that is nearly 100% lost in the "pooled" areas where people just flock to smash into each other. The "where's the fight", and "invite to raid" players.
Look, if that's really what people want. More power to them. But I think these counter roaming groups (groups of reasonable size squishing roaming solos and small groups) that have become prevalent that ARE (despite what people will admit to) meant to steamroll smaller numbers while avoiding the zerg, are really really problematic.
Are they a result of frustrations from the zerg? Perhaps.
Does that justify their existance? No. In fact, they end up doing EXACTLY what they hate.
And I recognize, I hoenstly do, that we ALL have the right to be selfish in our gameplay. In a well designed and implemented game the incentives would be for gameplay that is NOT selfish. The penalties would be towards selfish play. But this is NOT a well designed and implemented game. So we see bad behaviours left and right.
---
IMHO Turbine has something special in the moors. I personally enjoy it (and in particular the feel and timing of combat---albeit less than in SoA) more than any MMO I've played...and I've played most of the AAA titles...WoW being the most obvious exception.
I just think that over time we as a community have taken incremental steps towards worse and worse play. And along the path we've justified our steps by the steps other players took before us. Too many players in this game are feeling frustrated and victimized and that leads to feeling justified and empowered to return the favour against those they view as the source of their frustration.
Sad but true. Frankly, I see it going back to the initial design decision to have creeps power up with ranks, and freeps NOT scale with rank. Then there was V1B12 that over-incentivized large groups over any other size....and there have beeen many many steps small and large since then both Turbine generated and player driven (superiour tactics anyone?) that have led us to where we are.
But IMHO we CAN choose to play the game in a fun way. The question is are enough people willing to back off of the escalation model long enough to change the overall feel and gameplay?
I honestly don't know.
I don't think wargpacks and callouts and fight clubs, and zerging are the answer. I know that much.
But will enough players be willing to group when necessary and NOT group when not necessary. To spread out and utalize the whole map. To try and fight the good fight, and try to not fight the bad fight. To try and recognize that creeps are freeps and freeps are creeps.
I just don't know...
I know I WANT to. I know I TRY to...
What you may not know Luc is the number of times we have disbanded our raid/group because there were not enough freeps, and to run in groups seemed excessive.
You do not know the number of times, I and others have not attacked a solo or small group of freeps because we knew that the craid was close at hand.
You do not know the number of times creeps have logged out, rather then zerg small groups defending.
But let us face it, all too often the feeling of being punished manifests itself in the dealing out of punishment. This game like so many other games does encourage and reward bad attitudes. I will not say bad play, because that is using too broad a brush. And I find myself more and more logging out early or not logging into the moors at all.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
At least now we know, and that is why I killl everyone I see no matter their numbers, so get over the crying about zergs. A 10 or 12 man group is not a zerg. 35+ freepball is.
And this is why I let most every creep go after helping them kill norbog/slug/NPC. Because, I'd hate to do unto others what they do to me.
Nothing about skill. Never will you see me commenting on, or belittling someone based on skill. Partially because I'm not really that skilled, partially because those are things not really controllable by the player.
Well you must have grown up some since the SOA days when you told a whole raid of us in raid speak something very belittling
of our skill. Please try to deny it because i would love to tell the whole story.
Originally Posted by Thane9
10-12 is a full blown over the top zerg to 1-4 players. No doubt about it. And I've seen PLENTY of times where 10-12 run right into TR kill ONE freep and run right out the top just to jump off and run away. THEN repeat it when 2 more freeps show up.
All numbers are relative. Behaviours are not.
How about a group of 4 including yourself doing this in TA to a solo rank 1 creep? I don't find anything wrong with this myself. I have been on the giving and the receiving end of the Juggernaut but i find it funny that you disapprove. Again, i would love to tell the whole story.
Mask & Sagard - Defenders of the Mithril Halls. Chud - Agony
Well you must have grown up some since the SOA days when you told a whole raid of us in raid speak something very belittling
of our skill. Please try to deny it because i would love to tell the whole story.
.
Having been in literally hundreds of raids, and tens of thousands of engagements in the moors, I can say with all certainty I have no idea what you're talking about.
HOWEVER, I do have a certain set of expectations around people I group with...if I was leading the raid...then yeah I've been plenty harsh on people acting like goons in raids.
Super weird though, that I have absolutely no idea who you are yet you've apparently remembered this incident for what? 4+ years? Guess I must've really hit a nerve, and if it was taken as a personal attack I apologize. If it was because people weren't following or contributing to the raid then yeah, that's a reasonable expectation to have. Something that too many raiding people (leaders and followers) dont' really live up to.
Originally Posted by Ol'Gil
How about a group of 4 including yourself doing this in TA to a solo rank 1 creep? I don't find anything wrong with this myself. I have been on the giving and the receiving end of the Juggernaut but i find it funny that you disapprove. Again, i would love to tell the whole story.
Please do.
I cannot imagine a situation in which I was in a group of 4 and chased a solo creep into an otherwise unoccupied keep to kill them...
There are a few corner cases that would be exceptions. None of which are the norm however, and definitely not something that would be done over and over and over often in a short period of time and night after night.
1> I was solo and engaged and chased...done that...only to have other freeps show up...can't recall that happening recently but it COULD happen.
2> I was solo and in TA looking for fights (yes I literally go inside TA sometimes and look for solos to fight...that's how hard it is at times to find a fight in the open map) and again, other freeps came in. This HAS happened recently, as has the opposite, where I fight inside the area engage one creep only to then have a bunch of creeps decend upon me.
3> I was in a group...and there was acton all around and a creep who had been seperate got caught in the crossfire of pushing in and out of the keep fighting other creeps (most likely and often common given the in and out action that often occurs particularly at the west door). Again, this can happen often, grouped or ungrouped running around other freeps and creeps both. But that's not really 4 chasing 1 into a keep...
Even solo, a lot of the time I "replace my divots" meaning I like to clean up whatever NPCs I've had to pull on myself to get the kill. Anywhere. In fact, sometimes I've worried that it'd appear rude to the creep as they lie there dead and I'm killing bears/orcs/trees whatever over them. It's NOT my intention to be rubbing it in their face, more to just take what I have coming to me...and it sometimes ends up in death for me and reward for the creep. Although since Audacity NPCs are nearly inconsequential and one COULD make the argument that a fight in a keep is nearly the same as an open field engagement.
Could such a scenerio possibly have happened? Sure, I suppose, I've fought and killed and been killed by a lot of creeps over the past half decade, in many many many ways, locations, and situations. But I will say this for certain.
The actions you're describing just aren't something that is "typical" of my behaviour. Or even commonly demonstrative of my behaviour. I'll not try to excuse dumb or bad decisions I've made over the course of thousands of hours of play, I'm sure I've done things that would paint me as quite a jerk from time to time. But I think it's pretty indisputable that those situations very rare exception to how I play the game.
Regardless, my personal issue with the "storm the keep run out" method that is in fact getting more and more prevalent (see audacity v npcs aove) is the continued use over and over...it's really akin to the take the front hall and farm anyone who comes in tactic. It's probably at best borderline when you do it for a moment to clear some npcs, or push higher while holding off a larger force, but when used repeatedly and in large numbers it gets kinda gross. This is something that happens not just once every now and again. This is something that is happening nearly every night these days, and when it happens it's typically over and over, not just a one off.
I think anecdotal stories are one thing, whereas systemic and trending behaviours are quite another. I personally don't think I'm known as "that guy who always gets a group together to chase solos into keeps." But there ARE players who often lead raids into keeps to kill 1-2 then run away only to come back and do it again, and again, night after night. It's happening a lot these days, and it's all to often the same couple of players right in the front.
I found myself saying to a friend just the other day, that I'm really not the jerk so many people think I am. In real life I'm a really decent guy (I won't bother getting personal but yeah...I am). It's just frustrating when my vehemance around gameplay issues, my passion for my hobby, and frustration around others' playstyle choices gets interpreted as being some sort of horrible person.
It seems like you've gotten that impression from me. That's a shame.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
A few points to clarify myself: (anyone know how to bullet point?)
-Yes, Truth in all things. It is why I am always specific and persistent and technical and annoying at times (or all times) (I would argue Truth can disrupt kindness, but that's off topic)
-I understand this
I own my play style as well: Sociopathic. Let's just say I'm a fan of the random and Chaotic.
Now, in regards to things not about either of us:
-Two of the three things occurred, from the post that is in debate, that you listed.
-If these people who were singled out held your same standards (as listed) would it in no way appear personal?
I suppose what I am looking at is that you have NOT said in any way, shape, or form that "being singled out in a accusation should not be taken personally in any way."
If this is wrong to you then, OK.
If it's right, I want to see it written. I want to make sure it is clarified, to have heard/read it in its truth then, that when I repeat it my source is accurate.
I do not see making a comment and listing three folks within the comment as singling out so much as stating examples. To single out a person one would have to time after time target that one person in a verbal or "virtually" physical way, with intent to levy discomfort or distress. And yes, such actions, even in a game would be wrong.
It is the intent behind the actions which make it personal or not, I have been insulted many times on the forums or in private tells. But some believe that the inclusion of a smiley face serves to make things good.
And I can state, without doubt that there is only one person in Lotor that I actually hate. This is due to this persons treatment of others, and actions exhibited. And yet I would still never think to /rude them or jump on their corpse in game.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
I think a pinch of introspection is all these forums need. Here's an example, couple of nights ago I was getting super angry after getting killed like 15 times with no reward. Ask Fell, I even threatened to throw my computer out a window!
Was it some grand scheme of the creeps and how unfair it was? Thats what I thought at the time, but I was just frustrated. Its really hard to make some kind of grand-standing generalization like all creeps do blank because I died a lot.
If I made a thread every time I got frustrated with LOTRO PvP, it would be terrible for everyone here. Because I know this, when someone rages at me on the forum for doing this or that, I really dont take it personally. LOTRO PvP is frustrating sometimes, although it would be wise to install a rage-alarm program. Everytime you type a sentence with more than 200 words in it, no punctuation or spacing it just shuts your computer off.
Bid them achieve me and then sell my bones.
-Henry V
I think a pinch of introspection is all these forums need. Here's an example, couple of nights ago I was getting super angry after getting killed like 15 times with no reward. Ask Fell, I even threatened to throw my computer out a window!
Was it some grand scheme of the creeps and how unfair it was? Thats what I thought at the time, but I was just frustrated. Its really hard to make some kind of grand-standing generalization like all creeps do blank because I died a lot.
If I made a thread every time I got frustrated with LOTRO PvP, it would be terrible for everyone here. Because I know this, when someone rages at me on the forum for doing this or that, I really dont take it personally. LOTRO PvP is frustrating sometimes, although it would be wise to install a rage-alarm program. Everytime you type a sentence with more than 200 words in it, no punctuation or spacing it just shuts your computer off.
So True
If I posted every time I got smashed or frustrated I would have written a book by now.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
I do not see making a comment and listing three folks within the comment as singling out so much as stating examples. To single out a person one would have to time after time target that one person in a verbal or "virtually" physical way, with intent to levy discomfort or distress. And yes, such actions, even in a game would be wrong.
It is the intent behind the actions which make it personal or not, I have been insulted many times on the forums or in private tells. But some believe that the inclusion of a smiley face serves to make things good.
Good enough for me. I just wanted you to say those words.
Karathyn Thrace
Psycho Mania
Omnia illa et ante fiebant, omnia illa et ante fient
Ita dicimus omnes
Really, I thought I had. Perhaps I am just a wee bit too wordy.
A bit, but I don't judge because I am similarly problematic with over using an unnecessary amount of words to say something I am attempting to communicate.
Karathyn Thrace
Psycho Mania
Omnia illa et ante fiebant, omnia illa et ante fient
Ita dicimus omnes
A bit, but I don't judge because I am similarly problematic with over using an unnecessary amount of words to say something I am attempting to communicate.
*chuckles*
I could not have said it better myself.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
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