Thread: Query: Why do creeps always ask for a new tactical dps class?

Considering everything does fire/shadow/common damage anyway.

Originally Posted by MrFreddy

Considering everything does fire/shadow/common damage anyway.

Think they want a Creep RK or Minstrel with similar DPS output.

Type =/= Source.

Example: With oils, Hunters do fire damage, but it isn't tactical damage. Tactical damage checks against resist, melee/ranged checks against avoidance (such as BA moving target). Similarly, Hunter damage is increased by physical mastery regardless of the damage type (common/beleriand/fire/light etc.) they are using.

I can't say I regularly see creeps asking for a tactical DPS class... but Shadow wargs have much the same effect on T&G/Pledge as freep tactical classes have on MT.

Originally Posted by Tarenius

Type =/= Source.

Example: With oils, Hunters do fire damage, but it isn't tactical damage. Tactical damage checks against resist, melee/ranged checks against avoidance (such as BA moving target). Similarly, Hunter damage is increased by physical mastery regardless of the damage type (common/beleriand/fire/light etc.) they are using.

I can't say I regularly see creeps asking for a tactical DPS class... but Shadow wargs have much the same effect on T&G/Pledge as freep tactical classes have on MT.

True, but if you look at it that way Freep tactical classes have ranged. Shadow Wargs, although a small increase on range, are still melee.

Also, all other skills other than Bestial Claws, Sudden Maul, Swipe, Flea Bitten, Howls, and Eye Rake still are affected by BPE, including our slow.

Originally Posted by Tarenius

Type =/= Source.

Why does tactical mitigation reduce damage from say Reavers/Black Arrows then?

Tactical attack classes whose damage is only subject to resist checks versus physical damage classes whose attacks are subject to avoidance.

I thoroughly enjoy when creeps complain about tactical classes, and then in the same breath want one. Nothing like saying "but we want eZmode toooooo"

Aside from that they're monstrously Imbalanced gods.

Touchers.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...28-Fell-Spirit

Even if one was in game with a similar damage output to RK's, the Hoardale river would be full of freep tears.


But we don't actually have a tactical class. The WL has 3 tactical DPS skills but is mainly melee.

On one hand, I think creeps want a class that serves a similar role to a lorebreaker or battle mage.
On the other hand, I think they just want a shiny new toy.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

I think they just want a shiny new toy.

Mostly this. I love shiny new toys!

But seriously, if they gave creeps a tactical dps class, I'd be all over dat shiz.

The last thing creeps want is a new class.

200,000 commendations to buy traits/abilities/racials or $400+ USD at the Turbine Store.

No thanks.

So that they can put their zomg uber-hits in their bio.

Originally Posted by MrFreddy

Why does tactical mitigation reduce damage from say Reavers/Black Arrows then?

Because how much damage you take depends on your mitigations. Whether or not you take damage at all depends on BPE and resist. A tactical DPS class would have to check resists instead of BPE, and therefore bypassing the big BPE boosts of wardens, burgs, and guards. The current creep DPS classes all have to pass BPE checks for their attacks, aside from some skills here and there.

I'd love to see a creep-side tactical nuker. It would be a hoot to see RK's and minstrels get a dose of their own medicine.

Turbine isn't going to invest time and effort into a creepside tactical nuker though. They've got fail skirms and wardens to pander too.

Originally Posted by Arvaen

Because how much damage you take depends on your mitigations. Whether or not you take damage at all depends on BPE and resist. A tactical DPS class would have to check resists instead of BPE, and therefore bypassing the big BPE boosts of wardens, burgs, and guards. The current creep DPS classes all have to pass BPE checks for their attacks, aside from some skills here and there.

That's not the reason.

BPE is over-rated, it has been made practically useless thanks to gear integration freep side with finesse and creeps starting with such a high base finesse + battlefield promotions.

The only time BPE is a factor is when a Guardian pops pledge (guardians in no way shape or form influence PvMP whatsoever) or when a Burg uses hips. There is literally no other freep class (not even warden) that BPE's over mid-rank creeps. Guess what, Wargs can go in shadow and spam claws to negate BPE altogether and Blackarrows can go into steadfast barrage.

Originally Posted by Commish

The last thing creeps want is a new class.

200,000 commendations to buy traits/abilities/racials or $400+ USD at the Turbine Store.

No thanks.

I have nearly 10k free lifer vip TP I'm saving for when creeps get new a class. You know it's coming, probably be a card to play when turbine has a bad fiscal year. I would have more TP but I spent some on name changes and ba and spider skills of which I no longer bother to play. Ugh would probably be near 20k tp if I didn't spend any.

The reason why creeps don't have a tactical class that checks against resists is because freeps can't silence. Not to mention if freeps ever get hit as hard as they can attack they wouldn't bother coming to the moors. Freepside needs pvp only classes that advance through ranking.

Originally Posted by ssSteele

Freepside needs pvp only classes that advance through ranking.

An interesting idea, but I'm not too sure how well they would do this. Creativity is being stretched as it is, so I'm doubting implementation of new classes (atleast on freepside), so possibly creating a seperate skillset/availability in pvmp? Not like theyll do it anyway :/


On a more thread related note, I think creeps getting a sort of warlock (reminiscent of those Apprentice of Sarumans we've all hunted for days for) would be an interesting experiment. I'm thinkin lots of fear dots.

To kill burgs using Touch and Go and other freeps who don't understand the difference between tactical and melee/ranged attacks.

Originally Posted by AmazingX

On a more thread related note, I think creeps getting a sort of warlock (reminiscent of those Apprentice of Sarumans we've all hunted for days for) would be an interesting experiment. I'm thinkin lots of fear dots.

Now that's the best new creep class Idea I've read to date. Dots and fears and maybe even a lifetap type skill(like a dot that returns a % of the damage done as morale healing to you). The race could be orc(easy route) or maybe evil men. Or even morrovail or shades(oathbreakers). Shades could get that vanish thing they do as a racial skill(more or less like a flop/burrow). Lots of great possibilities with this idea(though shades working for Sauron/Saruman might break lore, I dunno).

Starting to sound like a certain shadow priest class on the game we aren't allowed to mention

I'm all for creeps getting the big eezy mode hitters, however to implement this you need to bring the mitigations down to a similar lvl as freeps........I dream of being able to hit a high ranking creep as hard as I can hit a high ranking rk

Originally Posted by Aldrytt

I dream of being able to hit a high ranking creep as hard as I can hit a high ranking rk

Play a RK / Minstrel / Hunter / Champion / Lore-master .

Wish granted .

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

I'd love to see a creep-side tactical nuker. It would be a hoot to see RK's and minstrels get a dose of their own medicine.

RKs and minstrels effectively have next to no block/parry/evade due to finesse, so all that would do is give them a chance to resist damage they would otherwise take if it was physical.

Originally Posted by Equendil

RKs and minstrels effectively have next to no block/parry/evade due to finesse, so all that would do is give them a chance to resist damage they would otherwise take if it was physical.

Rune-keepers & Minstrels do have ways to counter damage ( while doing DPS ) .

- Lay of the Hammerhand
- Armour of X
- Do Not Fall to X
- Shocking Touch / Invocation of Elbereth / CC
- Writh of Health / Triumphant Spirit / Self-Heals

With the amount of damage they have at their disposal , these skills should do the trick .

Why do creeps always ask for a new tactical dps class?
why not? freeps = 9 classes, Creep = 5.

Originally Posted by Commish

That's not the reason.

BPE is over-rated, it has been made practically useless thanks to gear integration freep side with finesse and creeps starting with such a high base finesse + battlefield promotions.

The only time BPE is a factor is when a Guardian pops pledge (guardians in no way shape or form influence PvMP whatsoever) or when a Burg uses hips. There is literally no other freep class (not even warden) that BPE's over mid-rank creeps. Guess what, Wargs can go in shadow and spam claws to negate BPE altogether and Blackarrows can go into steadfast barrage.

Incorrect.

Originally Posted by asearchforreason

To kill burgs using Touch and Go and other freeps who don't understand the difference between tactical and melee/ranged attacks.

Many freeps on E have learned to parry bow attacks

Originally Posted by Commish

guardians in no way shape or form influence PvMP whatsoever

This statement almost makes me motivated to level another alt, just to prove you wrong.

Originally Posted by Commish

guardians in no way shape or form influence PvMP whatsoever

One store pumped OP RK combined with a morale built shield walling guardian. That will show you how much influence a guard can have.

Do not say 'just stun him'. Store brands for all, remember?

Originally Posted by Squelcher

One store pumped OP RK combined with a morale built shield walling guardian. That will show you how much influence a guard can have.

Do not say 'just stun him'. Store brands for all, remember?

While Guards have their use, there are certainly many classes that have a higher impact

Just give me 4 Healers, 2 LMs and the rest DPS and we´ll blow up a full Creep Raid at equal numbers with no (or at max 1 or 2) deaths

Good Healers and LMs (all Healers stun immune + curing disarms and silences) is all you need

Originally Posted by Chris91

While Guards have their use, there are certainly many classes that have a higher impact

Just give me 4 Healers, 2 LMs and the rest DPS and we´ll blow up a full Creep Raid at equal numbers with no (or at max 1 or 2) deaths

Good Healers and LMs (all Healers stun immune + curing disarms and silences) is all you need

Guardians passive survivability/damage output combo tops all other classes hands down.

Notice how I said passive survivability before you say NUH UH.

Originally Posted by ssSteele

Freepside needs pvp only classes that advance through ranking.

I'd say this is a damn good idea, making moors a separate thing all in itself. Makes balancing 100 times easier since you don't have to worry how a freep class will be affected in their pve rolls. Although doing it now is a little tricky since I'd assume people would desire to play a possibly similarly functioning class, you can use the total renown of your current freep/freeps to be distributional to the new freep classes or just straight forward transfer meaning your champs rank 12 with x renown will go to only 1 of the new freep classes of your choosing.

It would be safer to open up DP for skills/passive buying for a fair amount of time since the problems with starting off cold with the comm system would put freeps at a big disadvantage, and making the whole transition a lot more rocky...

But yeah if anything this is a very fast and easy way to fix the moors to a degree, and yet they won't do it...

Originally Posted by Untg99

Guardians passive survivability/damage output combo tops all other classes hands down.

Notice how I said passive survivability before you say NUH UH.

Still the game is not about "a bit of everything" (remember, that´s the way Creeps are designed). It´s about being extremly good at one thing and letting your weak parts cover from someone else

And Healing classes have the highest ACTIVE surviveability :-)