Thread: LM Updates that need to happen. Please.

First and foremost, our blue line is garbage.
The capstone for our blue line is.....oh look....another pet.
I'm not here to argue over whether the Bog is worthwhile or not - I think he's great if you know how to use your flanks.
But whether he is or not is irrelevant, we need a SKILL for our capstone, not another pet.
Particularly because the raven's tact mit and fire debuffs are so important, I hardly ever have anything else out in raids (occasionally bear or heal pet).
Our capstone should be AOE flank heals, or at the very least the beacon of hope HoT.
The OD set really opened up LMs to their third trait line (with the 2 above bonuses), but without that set being viable anymore our blue line is once more useless compared to the benefits of running AM or MoNF.

My suggestions for the capstone:
- make the Bog Lurker only usable when traited deep blue. Do NOT have him be the capstone skill.
- make the capstone skill AOE flank heals, or something else.

Also, our power drain skill is absolutely ridiculous.
We trait for it for the extra drain, and it puts us out for an EXTRA 8 seconds? Seriously? Right, 20 seconds wasn't long enough for me to be a sitting duck.
Either boost the drain and REDUCE the duration of the channel, or seriously cut the cooldown on the skill.
When you trait for a skill it should make using it more effective, not the other way around.

Next, our 2-piece set bonus for AM is....extra bane flare targets.
One, bane flare is a difficult skill to use well because of its terrible range. Fix this skill.
Two, even when OD was endgame and the dead were abundant, this bonus still didn't really do anything for us.
It does even less for us now.

Next, Proof Against All Ills.
So, they botched our cooldown on Knowledge of Cures with RoI making it 10s. But wait! Don't get upset! If we trait 3 blue we can get it down to 5 seconds! Hot dog, let me go get rid of ISG or Force of Will for that!
If they're not going to make our blue line somewhat viable, give us the beacon of hope HoT set bonus in place of that 3 pc bonus, and make traiting Proof Against All Ills cut the cooldown to 5s, or get rid of the cooldown altogether.

I don't even want to get started on the fact that CCs can resist in raids. I have over 20% finesse in raids and roots and mezzes still don't stick everytime. This is unfair. Particularly when they make CttV almost necessary for double mezzing/rooting/corruption removal on trash, its no longer an Oh **** button anymore.
I understand the need for resists in PvP, but its not fair when 1 of 2 wargs resists the root, runs into the group 3 seconds into the fight and wipes us. This is not fair to the raid. I did my job, but due to a terrible game mechanic, the raid wipes. With the amount of damage things are pumping out in T2, there's almost no recovering from a botched CC. Particularly with adaptation being the prominent CC obstacle now, having someone "cover for you" with another CC isn't necessarily viable anymore either.

The eagle is an absolutely amazing pet, but its sexy ICPR/sexy flanks/sexy auto interrupts/sexy fear just don't get any play time when every single boss is spewing out ungodly amounts of tactical damage, and we need the raven.

My last complaint is the induction on Warding Lore.
It's essentially a telling mark, but with a few drawbacks.
- only for tactical damage
- usually only used when traited deep yellow due to genera of mobs
- > 2 second induction

I think warding lore is a great skill to use, but if its going to have only the boon to tactical damage, and itself being a limited boon unless we're deep yellow, the very least Turbine can do is give us a shorter induction, or (preferably) take it away entirely. Reveal weakness and telling mark have a small duration, but no induction. For a skill with much more limited use than those two, at least make it efficient when we need it.

All of this being said, I think LMs are a great and indispensable class (I'm obviously biased). Others on forums have complained that LMs are "nowhere" and this is a preposterous claim, probably stemming from experience with bad LMs. However, there are CLEARLY some changes that need to be made. We need our blue line completely fixed, and Bog lurker no longer the capstone, warding lore fixed, proof fixed, power drain fixed, etc.

Sadly, Turbine has made it very clear that they do not care about making good content anymore; after the release of the LOTRO store this game has been nothing but Quantity over Quality. The more material they can churn out, the quicker they release an expansion, the more people have to buy out of the store.
So I'm skeptical that any of these changes will ever occur, and it makes me angry how little the devs care about the quality of the game anymore.
I remember when they gave us Evendim for FREE. Forochel for FREE. Rift for FREE. This game used to be about doing justice to Tolkien's magical creation of middle earth. Not pumping out a bunch of quest hubs in Great River and a new jewelry set for every class (that everyone has to therefore grind). We don't want more, we want better. The T2 orthanc gear has been busted - Aellos is now worse than Great River earrings. First Ages are available in loot boxes. Rewarding raiders is now a thing of the past. Turbine's love for authenticity and Tolkien-ness ended with Moria, maybe mirkwood.
Now they've been so busy not fixing Draigoch, and waiting SIX months to fix THE ENDGAME RAID (are you kidding me?) that I'm not sure these changes will ever get made.

So, from the heart of someone who is sad to see Middle Earth crumbling into a sham for money, at the very least, please make these minor changes to a great class, one that has been left in the dust for too long.

Malephor

Although I do agree with all the points you said regarding updates to the class, I do not agree with the whole commercialization aspect.....yes the SoA days were all golden and all as everyone might say.....but considering the current times and market for MMOs, Lotro is definitely not in a bad position at the moment.....and I mean regarding the store.....as you said, Evendim, Forochel, Rift, etc were free....they were free for VIPs.....the rest still had to pay for them back then.....same is with Lothlorien, Enedwaith and Great River.....Yes the bugs that have cropped up recently are worrying, but the general state is nothing in comparison to bugs and other problems in other MMOs that are in the market.....

And for a 5 year old, free to play MMO, Lotro gives us a LOT of benefits.....there is NO other MMO that I know of that gives a chance for free players to earn so many store points as Lotro does....almost all free 2 play games that have stores dont even have the option of earning store points in game....the only way is by paying real world money.....not to mention, almost every other f2p mmo with a store has far more stuff in the store that would give an edge in gameplay.....and though I would agree Lotro has slipped up here and there VERY slightly regarding the Convenience not Necessity promise, its far more fair than every other f2p MMO's store....



Saying this, I will put a /signed on this.....LMs do need some serious updates.....I dont know what their priorities are or anything, but just a petition.......we have some really wonderful and knowledgeable feedback on this forum and a very mature and dignified method for proposing the same......so lets hope they look into this when planning for Riders of Rohan

just a side note (I do agree with alot of your proposed updates/changes):

once upon a time, long long ago, LMs were thought of as "nowhere" as well.... but only because no one else knew what we were doing to support the fellow/raid.

as it should be

others shouldn't have a CLUE as to what we do / are doing - just that it is easier to win when we are around. lol

I woud like to have a siginificant traitable buff/ debuff (buff in red and debuff in yellow). This woud make it an option to go with two lms in a raid. Stackable buffs woud make the lm op.

Most raids are a single target damage race, so the lm is "just" wanted for cc, stun imunity and debuff.

My Lm does decent single target dps =900DPS in raids + what my debuffs add to everyone elses damage.
The one thing I would love to see changed on the LM is making our no induction skills usable on the move! I think it is beyond ridiculous that LMs are stuck in long animations on skills that have no induction. This should have been a change when they released the immediate and fast mechanics and really needs to be looked at.

I very much agree on the front of Fire/Frost being usable on the move, particularly with Frost's lengthy animation.

And @ Silverblade5445
I'm not sure what you're talking about - the concept of VIP did not exist in SoA days. Everyone subscribed, and therefore Turbine cared about quality of content.

I was super excited that we were finally getting a ranged slot item, and when I found out that it was.....for our...(sigh)...pet... I just can't even begin to understand how this was a helpful upgrade for LMs (not to mention how negligible the benefits themselves are). We already have pet food, which is trivial at best - we want something for our lore masters. As cool as pets are, they are not the focus of our class. 1% crit chance or extra ICMR for something that dies with one AOE from Saruman, I consider to be useless.
Personally I think Combat Summoning should be a skill that we just have 100% of the time.

Mal

I was thinking last night and I came upon one simple idea to change a few core things I would like to see improved upon.

Most people seem to see morale usage for skills as redundant, and the trait that goes with it an evil we have to endure.

Many people complain about being stuck to the ground through animations, or not having enough fluidity in PvmP and indeed PvE (but I find the upcoming idea mostly useful as a PvMP trait).

It's been said a million times but: Remove the morale cost from skills... here is the part I added, change the trait into one that makes you able to cast just Burning Embers on the move. I don't think it's entirely unfair when other range classes are able to kite around and fire things off... LM has to make do with extremely well timed stuns and runs just to be able to get anything off. I don't believe removing the induction is the right thing, that would be a significant increase to DPS but sacrificing a trait slot to enable it on the move seems sensible to me, and would make PvMP fights much less clunky.

Originally Posted by MalephortheLoremaster

So, from the heart of someone who is sad to see Middle Earth crumbling into a sham for money

You do realize that J.R.R. Tolkien was a professional author who wrote the LOTR trilogy for money, and that his estate now licenses it out for money.. right?

Originally Posted by Imirak

You do realize that J.R.R. Tolkien was a professional author who wrote the LOTR trilogy for money, and that his estate now licenses it out for money.. right?

1. Your reply has nothing to do with the point of the thread.
2. As you quoted, I said "Middle Earth," not "the LOTR triology." I am aware that Tolkien was urged by his publishers to write the LOTR trilogy, a process which took 17 years - quite the speedy business endeavor.
3. Tolkien started writing about Middle Earth in 1916, over two decades before he was encouraged to write LOTR. He sent most of his ideas, anecdotes, and songs to his son. Middle Earth was for fun. It was his fantasy. It was not for money. The Silmarillion (of which he began early stages in 1916) was published after he died. It was not for money.
4. Tolkien is dead. His estate is not him. Your sarcastic attempt at an argument is not pertinent.

For those of you who cared to actually respond about lore mastery, I appreciate it.

@ Bregyn
Although I agree with you the pointlessness of morale costs for skills for an already squishy class, they're a minor enough inconvenience. Being able to fire/frost/wind on the move would make PvP much more fair, I can't believe they haven't fixed this yet either. Burning embers on the move seems a little bit too OP, but that would be awesome

Originally Posted by roseoftheguns

1. Your reply has nothing to do with the point of the thread.

I didn't spend 3 paragraphs ranting that the makers of LOTRO care only about profit.

I like much of the stuff you say op.

I play all classes and the LM is the only one I feel is quite clunky to play. It can be fun to play, but I feel it is lacking compared to the rest of the classes.

The long inductions and very long cool downs blow.

Please fix, thx.

Blue needs a huge revamp .

Yellow needs a big revamp .

Red needs a revamp .

But they pretty much think "everything is a ok" when the store is working so ...

Originally Posted by Bregyn

here is the part I added, change the trait into one that makes you able to cast just Burning Embers on the move. I don't think it's entirely unfair when other range classes are able to kite around and fire things off... LM has to make do with extremely well timed stuns and runs just to be able to get anything off. I don't believe removing the induction is the right thing, that would be a significant increase to DPS but sacrificing a trait slot to enable it on the move seems sensible to me, and would make PvMP fights much less clunky.

"Other ranges classes are able to kite around and fire things off" is not true. One word: Hunter. We have a legendary skill that allows 2, yes only two, of our skills to have a decent chance of not missing while running around, and those skills cost focus so we gotta stop SOMETIME. LMs running around throwing out a skill that auto-slows, can't be potted, is 30%, and adds a DoT is way way way OP. Especially if you're not gonna even have to trait legendary for it.
Short and Sweet: Enough kiting pew pew with RKs in the moors. Don't need a class that can almost perma slow now too.

Im always agreeing on suggestions to improve pets

You are in good company with your wish for a serious update. And I think Turbine knows that too.

*Blue Line
If the blue line would be proper, we would might see more LM's running blue again.
I love my support role. Despite the miserable benefits of that line, I often go blue for Fangorn and Pits (T1).
Though only i got the Moors-Armour with 3-piece-bonus Heal-Over-Time.
- Blue-Line should rapidly shorten the Heal-Cooldowns.
- The CapStone should offer Flank AoE Heals+Beacons HoT, because we give up much to have that cap-stone.
- HealPet (spirit): BlueLine bonus should significantly increase its healing (well at least it does not die anymore doing so*sigh*)

*Yellow Line
- Yellow-line bonus: Add 5 secs Silence to FrostLore, as you get similar with the moors yellowarmour
- Increase the Debuffs overall, the stats seem outdated as the content advanced
- Powerdrain: right!- that channel really needs to be shortened!

*red Line
- Knowledge of the past: If i shall offer 1 of my 7 traits for that, i don't want a 20% chance, I want actually powergain!
- Inductions: Why do we have so long ones? We have a trait that decreases induction, just make it decrease more!
- Eagle, I love it. But why he needs to be legendary? There is no chance i give up my sword,Ent or Gourd for it.

*EttenMoors
- Dont get me started,just fix it & Our stuns/dazes got drastically nerfed with audacity- we might want something back for it.


Overall:

We understand- you are busy guys, with new releases and similar, as you need to earn money as well of course. Though you got to admit this class was overlooked for a while. We gladly help if you need inputs. E.g: Make an online mutlible-choice questionnaire for the most important issues, and see the outcome of your players. I'ld gladly join such one.
You want to earn money- and i gladly pay with my monthly subscription for a good game, as long it is such one.

So- I decide to be optimistic and wait what you guys have for us...

Greetings / Ljus

Pets should not be legendary traits.

I've earned the bog lurker trait but I've never bothered learning how to play one simply because I don't want to trait deep blue to get one. Five traits plus the legendary? Are you serious? SIX TRAIT SLOTS to get... a giant bug? I know a lot of people like them and I'm glad they do. I don't know if I would like one or not because I'm not willing to give up so many skills to investigate a skill I've managed to quest along just fine without.

I still slot my eagle because I love the flanks and Sacrifice but the eagle shouldn't be a separate category of other pets that are just as wonderful like the Raven who is practically a freebie. So make the eagle a pet like the other pets. Bring along the bog lurker to the rest of the pet line.

Pets should not cost you skill like they do now when they occupy a legendary slot any more than a minstrel should have to lose his legendary slot in order to choose his instrument.

Ringeras, lvl 75 LM, Nimrodel -- stop and say hello if you see me in game.

I've never even traited blue so I don't really know much about it. Doesn't seem attractive.



The biggest thing is the Wound/Disease NERF.


I avoided training knowledge of cures for a long long time. Until RoI forced it upon us. What a shame. It's a ridiculous change. The wound resistance buff was awesome! Make it a buff again once it is applied. Not only is a buff great, but the icon really shows the range and who received it in the fellowship. Great reference. Once upon a time Proof against all Ills was pretty much a given. With the nerf, I hardly even trait it anymore....

A few months ago they had a thread called "Official Class Update and Feedback" where you could make some suggestions and I bet THAT is what the dev will look into. I hope he'll look at our forums as well since there were more things to say than the ones allowed in that thread but I'm not that confident.

That said, I agree with everything.
Especially with blue line uselessness, pet legendary traits, bane flare bonus and power drain/share abilities. Nowadays in many situations I feel I can share power better with my captain :S

Edit.
One more thing: I want our legacies updated. Especially the staff ones. Half of them are useless and support wise, we only have share the power increase. I put 4 stat legacies on my support staff. Yeah, even agility. Agility.

Great post. +rep to you Malephor.

Originally Posted by Lapislazzuli

Yeah, even agility. Agility.

Ouch. That's desperate. Have you only every done support?

Originally Posted by Mithithil

Ouch. That's desperate. Have you only every done support?

Lol, at least I'm not desperate enough to use might as well... Yet...

I find the blue line the best for leveling. When moving through camps it's nice to have all your CC up. My bog with just my buffs has 9.5k health. So he can tank 3 on lvl mobs. He can kill any on lvl mob all by himself. When the 3 and 6 man, T1 runs are on farm there no reason to go all the way in into red or yellow so you don't have to switch that much. Save the red and yellow lines for T2 stuff. One of my favorite things to do is play "King of the Hill" by holding one spot in the middle of a camp with a fast respawn rate to see how long I can hold that spot. The blue line is great just the way it is. Don't change it. I consider any change that makes your toon more powerful or easier to play a nerf because it reduces the challenge. The last thing the LM class needs is an easy button.

Agreed - they need to re-examine this class and especially rethink the KoA line.

That said, it seems people only think of the KoA capstone as simply "bog lurker". It's not. The capstone is "Nature Friend", which, yes enables you to call a bog lurker, but also importantly provides in-combat pet summoning, which can be used with any pet. This doesn't justify the mess of the KoA line, but it is more incentive to consider it than "just for a pet".

[QUOTE=Ingiogal;6229995]Pets should not be legendary traits.

QUOTE]

maybe...maybe not. these traits "Eagle-friend" and "Nature-Friend" come with some pretty special skills. when you think in terms of their skills, is in-combat rez/sacrifice worth a legendary trait? Is in-combat pet summoning worth a legendary trait?

well ... it's easy ... if dev try to play this game no need to tell what a lore master need ...

After they see a pet with 2 min cd skill or 23-43 dps ...
or more fun !

I will probably get negative rep for this but I just want to say I am really happy with LM, I have amazing dps, I love that its so easy to do deeds I can round everything up and just kill it, I love that in a raid I have to think of ten things at once and pay a lot of attention and one slip up can cause a wipe, and I love that I can heal a 3man very effectively.

LM is a challenging class, imo, the hardest class to solo levelling especially 40 - 50 but that was before f2p so I dont know if it is still the same.

I love it just the way it is, I see these classes getting big revamps and I just think, how broken are we? I think we are great, I dont want LM to get easier, I love the challenge of this squishy class

Then again I dont pvp so I dont have problems like that, maybe my stuns resist a bit more than they should but if I was asking the devs to do one thing it would be just to fix pets.

Fix them so the dps is a bit better.

Originally Posted by Failmaster

I will probably get negative rep for this but I just want to say I am really happy with LM, I have amazing dps, I love that its so easy to do deeds I can round everything up and just kill it, I love that in a raid I have to think of ten things at once and pay a lot of attention and one slip up can cause a wipe, and I love that I can heal a 3man very effectively.

LM is a challenging class, imo, the hardest class to solo levelling especially 40 - 50 but that was before f2p so I dont know if it is still the same.

I love it just the way it is, I see these classes getting big revamps and I just think, how broken are we? I think we are great, I dont want LM to get easier, I love the challenge of this squishy class

Then again I dont pvp so I dont have problems like that, maybe my stuns resist a bit more than they should but if I was asking the devs to do one thing it would be just to fix pets.

Fix them so the dps is a bit better.

I don't think anyone here wants a big revamp or a small one.
My concerns are all about things we used to do better then we currently do. I think of power leeching and pet dps for example.
And some things just need to change because they are outdated, like +2 bane flare targets bonus.
I'd be upset if we had a complete overhaul but I'd welcome some refining

Originally Posted by MalephortheLoremaster

First and foremost, our blue line is garbage.

My suggestions for the capstone:
- make the Bog Lurker only usable when traited deep blue. Do NOT have him be the capstone skill.
- make the capstone skill AOE flank heals, or something else.

Malephor

I like the idea of the bog available with 4 blues traited. Make the blue capstone affect all pets, but in a diff way for each. Something like a lot more threat and mits/vit/bpe for the bear, more dps and less cd for the lynx, ...

Blue capstone should also give us some more better heals (flank fellowship heals is a nice idea).

I'd like to see something that allows us to use some of our heavy hitters on the move, just like basically every class besides LM can do as of right now.

We need some core skill changes to help streamline our class.

We are primarily a debuffing class but we can't keep our lore skills up all the time unless we are traited for it. I would suggest we reduce the strength of our lore skills but also reduce the cooldown. It should be like signs of power: command. 30 seconds duration 1.8 second cooldown. To balance that our debuffs should start at 20%. This way we can always have our lore skills up. They should also be able to use this on the move, because it feels very awkward to run into battle, stop for a second (actually multiple seconds because of animation) and then start running again. When we trait yellow our bonus should be better debuffing to our lore skills. So they start at 20% then go to 25% with two yellow traits, 30% with 3, 35% with 4 yellow traits and 40% with 5 yellow traits. This would take away from the all or nothing feel of the yellow line and being forced to take the capstone. The capstone could then be changed to increase damage to the target. So fire lore would reduce outgoing melee damage by 40% and increase incoming melee damage by 10%.


Next I think that they should return signs of battle: wizards back with the same format as signs of battle: wizard's fire except it returns power on a flank! event and not moral. This would do two things. One it would allow us to have a long range power return so we don't need to run up and staff sweep and two it would give us one more small damage over time skill.

Our warding circle is just &&&& for two reasons. First it only increasing incoming tactical damage when most damage is ranged or melee. Second, no one ever stands in it. It is too much work to work to get the tank to drag the enemy into the circle and keep in there and there is no real reward for it. Instead I think the warding circle should be protective. A place for healers and hunters to stand and be safe. I propose that when a mob enters a warding circle they get mezzed/feared/stunned for 5 seconds. This would allow the group a little time to get away or the tank a little time to grab the mob. I like the idea of fearing because that is one cc we don't have (except with eagle) but mezzing or stunning is probably easier. I think that this change would really improve the warding circle and make people actually use it. Plus it would be great for solo fights when you are taking on a larger group.

As for trait lines. I mentioned what I would do with the yellow bonuses. The yellow traits themselves can stay pretty much the same, though I would love to see a trait that reduced the cooldown of herb lore. Blue traits should increase healing, making our sign of battle moral return group wide and making beacon of hope have pulses. I also think that beacon of hope could get a bigger cooldown so you can use it every every 5 seconds if you trait blue. This would make LM healing very viable without stepping on any toes. It would also give the LM the option of supplementing healing instead of damage when debuffing and CCing. Also I think it would be cool if the blue capstone allowed the signs of the wild to be used on fellowship members. I could see a lot of people training blue to heal and give your tank -10% incoming damage and your dps -10% attack duration +5% damage. Our red traits are all in a pretty good right now.

Also I hear that Sword and Staff is becoming a passive legendary. Maybe our new legendary could be damage does not set back inductions. This would be huge for anyone playing solo or in the moors but wouldn't be so universally good like sword and staff that everyone most devote a slot to it. I know I wouldn't if I was AM traited.

Originally Posted by SirBeegus

maybe...maybe not. these traits "Eagle-friend" and "Nature-Friend" come with some pretty special skills. when you think in terms of their skills, is in-combat rez/sacrifice worth a legendary trait? Is in-combat pet summoning worth a legendary trait?

In-combat rez would be worth a slot if you could use it to rez other members of your party. It would be great if it was a reactive skill like the captains rez, you have a small window of time to decide if that character is worth enough to save.

In-combat pet summoning is not worth a legendary trait. If your pet dies during combat it is usually because of massive AOEs and no matter how many times you resummon, it is going to die. The only pet that dies because it took aggro is the bear.

To "fix" the pet issue we need to lower the cooldown on the skills and give them passives skills or debuffs. Raven is a great pet because of the passive skill to resist tactical damage. Saber cat sucks because it, does a massive 45 AOE damage. If you give the pets a more specific role other than dps you will have good pets.

I'm still thrilled over the suggestion to make the 6th bonus on the Padded Feldskyn set a passive skill. The bonus is: on critical flanks from your pet, the next induction is reduced to 0.

That would also help make the class less slow in my opinion and I know it would be welcomed among many people in the LM-community.

So how often do pets crit?

Probably less than us.

It's a bit like the storm caller set bonus... sounds good in theory but you only get it one in every 10-15 moors fights.

Okay, I think the skill that reveals our immobility and inductions as being simply terrible is our rez.

Here I am pulling out a pipe like it's a sunny sunday afternoon, slowly enjoying a drag and finally, leisurely placing it back in my pocket all while I am getting torn apart by wargs, reavers and whatever random creep wants a piece of the stationary pylon standing there!

That was a humorous look at a problem that defines the class. More seriously, why do LM's have only ONE skill we can cast on the move? Even our bread and butter skill, BE, I physically have to stop, cast, and wait through the animation! Essentially, if I can chasing a fleeing creep I only have two skills, Wizard's Fire and Burning Embers. With CC effectively dead in the moors and having to stop everytime I cast a stun, mezz or root (and they pot it or diminishing returns let's the CC work for a shorter duration than my cast time is) I am stuck with 2 skills.

So, what we have is a twofold issue...
- Long animation/inductions (just silly relative to other classes)
- Having to stand still to cast 95% of our skills

I know this is not a "moors issues only" thread, but I think these weaknesses are truly displayed best out there.

Anyway, that's my rant and I'm sticking to it. Even if the devs never read this thread I feel better having vocalized my concerns to a like-minded group.

Originally Posted by Irin19

I know this is not a "moors issues only" thread, but I think these weaknesses are truly displayed best out there.

Anyway, that's my rant and I'm sticking to it. Even if the devs never read this thread I feel better having vocalized my concerns to a like-minded group.

Move and cast pales into insignificance compared to the worthlessness of the primary focus of the class in Ettens...

Originally Posted by Irin19

Okay, I think the skill that reveals our immobility and inductions as being simply terrible is our rez.

Here I am pulling out a pipe like it's a sunny sunday afternoon, slowly enjoying a drag and finally, leisurely placing it back in my pocket all while I am getting torn apart by wargs, reavers and whatever random creep wants a piece of the stationary pylon standing there!

That was a humorous look at a problem that defines the class. More seriously, why do LM's have only ONE skill we can cast on the move? Even our bread and butter skill, BE, I physically have to stop, cast, and wait through the animation! Essentially, if I can chasing a fleeing creep I only have two skills, Wizard's Fire and Burning Embers. With CC effectively dead in the moors and having to stop everytime I cast a stun, mezz or root (and they pot it or diminishing returns let's the CC work for a shorter duration than my cast time is) I am stuck with 2 skills.

So, what we have is a twofold issue...
- Long animation/inductions (just silly relative to other classes)
- Having to stand still to cast 95% of our skills

I know this is not a "moors issues only" thread, but I think these weaknesses are truly displayed best out there.

Anyway, that's my rant and I'm sticking to it. Even if the devs never read this thread I feel better having vocalized my concerns to a like-minded group.

Our inductions are too long and the knock back too big. We are basically dead if we ever have to face two creeps, not because they are more powerful but because the combination of two things hitting us, even if it is just a tap, is too much and we can never get a skill off. Add in jumping around and behind us, it is too easy for them to hit us to slow the induction and then step behind us to stop the induction. This could be fixed by simply adding a red trait the stopped induction knockback. Ideally I would want to have them take away all inductions so we could run and shoot like a mini or RK but I think that might be a little too strong, BE is such a powerful spell that being able to run, spam and stack the burns would be too much.

As for 95% of our skills being stand to cast, I only get really annoyed with our instant skills that are stand to cast. As we are running in we should be able to firelore, not stop and do it. When we are chasing something down we should be able to herblore or blinding flash while still running. The root/daze only lasts a second or two but that would be enough to catch someone if we didn't have to stop. I usually use those so others can catch a creep because I know when I am done stopping, finish the animation and am able to run again that the creep is already going to be out and our distances apart will not change.

If I could change things I would:
1)Make a red trait that took away knock back
2)cut our cast times in half
3)make instant cast skills usable on the run.

If anything we are to op nerf us ;o <- sarcasm ;p

I would like to see 'Improved Study of Fire-Lore'
Dispel Corruption will remove corruptions from all targets that are effected by Fire-lore, this would also coincide/increase with the book legacy for target numbers.

the problem of the animation isnt' only for ettenz !

A burg can istant stun an enemy in moviment.

Lor emaster need to run to big fat troll go inrange stop to move and after use the daze, daze need to hit the big troll, big troll come too much near the raid !!!

Burg have already istant stunned ... that's not a really good thing

Originally Posted by Mithithil

Move and cast pales into insignificance compared to the worthlessness of the primary focus of the class in Ettens...

I'm not sure I understand your thinking here without more explanation. Maybe it comes down to what you believe is the LM's primary focus in the ettens. Before I comment I want a better understanding of your thought process.