So I've been playing LOTRO for parts of 5 years now. One of the things that has caused my periodic absences from the game is the unavailability of certain meaningful content from the game as my characters out-level it and force me to level new ones if I want to play that content.
A perfect example is Moria. I am working my 5th toon though the Mines now and once again I have reached that bittersweet moment when the content becomes less meaningful because my character is out-leveling it (again.) I have more fun in Mora than anywhere else in the game. The content is harder for level appropriate toons than any content until the endgame and it is actually more challenging than most endgame content is for 75's.
I'm also re-connecting again with how hard it is to level legendary items while still at the appropriate levels in the 50's and early 60's. From 53 to 58 I've gotten a 2nd Age Bow to level 30 somehow despite only having one other weapon leveling alongside it.
So here's my question: Why can't we just turn off character XP and have that XP go in some prorated form to legendary items?
I'd love to take a dwarf and just have him live in Moria at level 60 for eternity. I'd be able to find like-minded people who would do the same thing, just to have good dungeon crawls again and lots of them to choose from.
Similarly I'd probably love to have a hobbit eternally at level 15 or so in the Shire. The roleplaying would be better there if everything I looked at didn't just roll over and die instantly. I might even finally get a farmer/cook leveled if he'd be able to stay profitably in the Shire.
Why is this not an option? It would be a simple change, since Turbine obviously can turn off leveling at 75. It would allow players to keep the content much fresher for themselves than any Turbine revamp ever could. It would take a lot of the pressure off to make high level instances scalable. It would allow new players to find a vibrant world to play in with lots of people looking to run low level instances.
When they considered this several years back, there were two primary reasons:
They had concerns that an "XP lock" would strand people without anything they could do but grind on MOBs for a couple of levels until some more content came into reach. That's majorly "unfun".
They surveyed a random sampling of their players, and got an absolutely miniscule response on the question of an XP lock. Very few listed it as something they were interested in.
#1 is less of an issue these days, between skirmishes and tasks. Those might still be "grinding", but they're much more interesting than simply slaying 2000 MOBs.
#2... not sure. I'd certainly guess that more players care about this now, but unless they run another survey, it's hard to know. Passionate pleas by a dozen players on the forums doesn't necessarily translate into a broad desire among all their players (which is why they need a survey, and not just some threads in Suggestions).
lots of threads on the topic a little research saves the trouble of starting another and keeps all the posts of interest in one place or a couple places so we can keep Turbines attention on the topic.
Passionate pleas by a dozen players on the forums doesn't necessarily translate into a broad desire among all their players (which is why they need a survey, and not just some threads in Suggestions).
Khafar
There are many more then a dozen but those against seem to like to minimize the reality.
A survey Yeah sure hopefully this time it will not be a biased survey about engame and slanted in such away that
non engamers would see read and respond to the survey.
Asking in a survey directed at end gamers and PVMPers about an XP toggle certianly was not an
honest attempt to get real feed back from those that would actually use it.
Turbine was clearly BIASED against it in that particular joke of a survey.
A survey Posted in forums will not necessarily get great feedback anyways I seriously doubt most Casual
Players spend much time in forums it is a fairly well known fact that less then 25% of all players ever read forums
let alone post to them.
lots of threads on the topic a little research saves the trouble of starting another and keeps all the posts of interest in one place or a couple places so we can keep Turbines attention on the topic.
I find this strange that there seems to be a sudden influx recently (here on the forums at least) of players wanting to lock XP. I wonder what brought this on?
I still finish my favorite zones, even if I outlevel them halfway through. If the content is good, I'll stick around for it, even if it gets a little too easy. I just pull more.
I find this strange that there seems to be a sudden influx recently (here on the forums at least) of players wanting to lock XP. I wonder what brought this on?
I really think it has been balanced for some time some of these threads started 2 years ago there probably are older ones.
Though I do think there is a little more interst maybe as more casual gamers come here they want
to spend more time on the experiance the journey through Middle-earth.
Many may be realising that End game is not all this game has to offer landscape content here is pretty
well designed and lots of fun on level.
With bugs in much of the current end game Skirms instances and raids the older ones hold more appeal the rewards
in terms of armour jewelry etc may not be as great but the reward of completing it on level still is.
Many never got to experiance it the first time around and now they want to.
The thrill of the PVMP has worn off or never drew in many it is not what most consider to be PVP
so people are finding othe ways to enjoy thier game time.
Lotro has a lot of great content and given the option to experiance it on level is something that
will attract the interest of many players.
An XP Lock on off toggle gives options Options we have not had in Lotro and it is time we do get that option.
Those are my thoughts on the why Many of them apply to me personally and many of my friends.
While an XP Toggle may not be for everyone and thats fine but let Us enjoy our playstyke give us the option.
Perhaps - I did say "passionate". There was this one thread on the subject of XP locks several years back which had hundreds of responses, yet if you broke it out by poster, something like 80% of the posts were made by 10 people (and I was one of those).
I'm not saying nobody would use it if it were available, because I'm sure some would. The question for Turbine is whether or not people feel strongly enough so it materially influences retention or revenues. You know that's how they make a lot of decisions, just like any other for-profit business. If they offered this as an account-wide feature for (say) 895 TP, would it be popular? Would 10% of Premium/VIP players buy it? 5%? 2%? Or would most of the people who wanted it in the threads on Suggestions whine that it wasn't free?
If the latter, and if it doesn't impact retention much... that would make it harder to green-light for an upcoming update or expansion. All of which is why they need to survey it again, and get some less subjective data.
If they offered this as an account-wide feature for (say) 895 TP, would it be popular? Would 10% of Premium/VIP players buy it? 5%? 2%? Or would most of the people who wanted it in the threads on Suggestions whine that it wasn't free?
If the latter, and if it doesn't impact retention much... that would make it harder to green-light for an upcoming update or expansion. All of which is why they need to survey it again, and get some less subjective data.
Khafar
Turn it around since we well know there are people that pay for the accelerators make them account wide for 1595TP
Let people who demand fast leveling pay for it. Let those that want easy mode to end game pay for a change.
Or better yet equalize it a little Take away Rest XP for those that do not want it Let those that do pay extra for it.
I do know as a yearly VIP at $99.99 a year I will not renew until an XP Disabler is created and offered in an acceptable manner.
I and Many others in many threads have stated they would be willing to pay as long as it is not a Per Use Item like the soldier Token I would cosider it at 50 TP but not more for a minimum hour of actual Use turned off XP.
As for green lighting it thats a moot point they already did green light it they added then removed it.
I do not for a minute believe it is a tech problem but a Oh Hell we gave them a Pocket Item for XP Gain we can not alos give an XP Disable at the same time. Then It became how can we charge for a basic Game mechanic.
The Ability to do a toggle exists in Game.....
The ability to toggle off Xp exists it happens at every level cap until new content is added.
Turbines only problem Is how to best rip off those of us that want it while convincing us that they did us a grerat favour in
fixing an issue they created with the accelerated XP curve and unwanted rest XP
What's preventing you from just doing out-leveled content anyway? Quests do not become locked once you're 10+ levels above the, unless you're into Tasks of course. If you want to do quests, then do them! No need to level another character for it.
What's preventing you from just doing out-leveled content anyway? Quests do not become locked once you're 10+ levels above the, unless you're into Tasks of course. If you want to do quests, then do them! No need to level another character for it.
Unfortunately the experience is ruined. Grey mobs ignore you. Instances become trivial in difficulty, hard to play as intended because you can out-dps most enemy mechanics.
I love the level 50 instances, what was once the end-game, and I would like to XP lock a character at 50 in order to get him full sets of Urugarth/Carn Dum/Barad Gularan and then Rift armours and items. Its still perfectly playable and fun content.
Without an XP lock, whatever you try you get so much XP that out-level the whole thing before you can run the Angmar quests and instances enough times to get the armours, do deeds, etc.
Additionally, when new kinnies join and are levelling through the content, they often need a group. Currently what happens is that a number of level 75s join in and blast through the content. An XP lock would allow me to have one or two characters parked at meaningful levels (e.g. 50 or 60) to help those kinnies without trivialising the content completely. And believe me, there are community focused players, officers in kinships, to whom that is a more attractive prospect than levelling all their alts to level cap.
The other solution would be to scale those instances but the way they do it tends to nerf the instances anyway and turn all the loot into boring marks and stuff, so given that happened to Helegrod and Annuminas I'd be happier to see XP locks and the Rift left alone.
The game needs a robust sidekick system, where players are scaled down (gear, morale, power, damage) to the zone. This would solve many of the claimed problems.
Unfortunately the experience is ruined. Grey mobs ignore you. Instances become trivial in difficulty, hard to play as intended because you can out-dps most enemy mechanics.
I love the level 50 instances, what was once the end-game, and I would like to XP lock a character at 50 in order to get him full sets of Urugarth/Carn Dum/Barad Gularan and then Rift armours and items. Its still perfectly playable and fun content.
Without an XP lock, whatever you try you get so much XP that out-level the whole thing before you can run the Angmar quests and instances enough times to get the armours, do deeds, etc.
Additionally, when new kinnies join and are levelling through the content, they often need a group. Currently what happens is that a number of level 75s join in and blast through the content. An XP lock would allow me to have one or two characters parked at meaningful levels (e.g. 50 or 60) to help those kinnies without trivialising the content completely. And believe me, there are community focused players, officers in kinships, to whom that is a more attractive prospect than levelling all their alts to level cap.
The other solution would be to scale those instances but the way they do it tends to nerf the instances anyway and turn all the loot into boring marks and stuff, so given that happened to Helegrod and Annuminas I'd be happier to see XP locks and the Rift left alone.
+ rep
You said it in a much more informative way (and with less attention-seeking hyperbole) than I usually do.
The past couple of weeks does seem to have seen quite a few of these threads. Synchronicity? Copycat threads? The ineffable hand of the XP Lock Gaming Deity, hereinafter referred to as Explockor?
While attractive on the paper, such a feature would be "dangerous" in a game like LOTRO. One misuse, or forgetting to turn it off, and one may end stranded at a specific level with no other choice than to grind.
While attractive on the paper, such a feature would be "dangerous" in a game like LOTRO. One misuse, or forgetting to turn it off, and one may end stranded at a specific level with no other choice than to grind.
If any game ever gave you more options to level than questing that is LoTRO, skirmishes, tasks, etc.
About forgetting to turn it off, that would be the badly implemented toggle option that you are imagining. We are suggestring a well implemented one with warnings you can't miss, a red XP bar, etc
You could even make the XP reward from a quest a selectable one. So every time you hand in a quest you can decide whether you want the XP or not. And that itself could be linked to an option to choose a default that is convenient for you, so no one gets hassled by having to change it every time.
Part of my work entails GUI design. I've heard all the excuses.
Additionally, when new kinnies join and are levelling through the content, they often need a group. Currently what happens is that a number of level 75s join in and blast through the content. An XP lock would allow me to have one or two characters parked at meaningful levels (e.g. 50 or 60) to help those kinnies without trivialising the content completely. And believe me, there are community focused players, officers in kinships, to whom that is a more attractive prospect than levelling all their alts to level cap.
This is a point I had wanted to make myself. Because many of the people who have been in the game long term are at level cap with a number of alts, it is very difficult for newer players levelling up their characters to find a group to run instances with, or even someone to buddy up with for the harder on-lvl landscape quests, such as some of those in Annuimas, or the fs quests in Angmar. I see too many newer players lvling by running solo skirms, which must be boring and tedious for them.
If an XP disabler was brought into the game, I would certainly use it to halt a couple of characters at various lvls, such as around 50-55 for CD/Uru/etc and perhaps around 35/40 for the GA/Annu instances as I am sure others in my kin would, so that when new players join us, we can help them thro on-lvl content and help them learn more about grouping and the mechanics of the game. I know that not everyone likes running instances, but generally people that are introduced to them have a real blast and thoroughly enjoy and appreciate the group content. This can give GREATER PLAYER SATISFACTION, which in turn means that a player is more likely to stay in the game, spend more money on it, and thus benefit the community as a whole.
The way things are now, for any new player, it is a long and lonely slog to get to lvl cap, and most just rush it to get through the boredom of having to solo 95%+ of the time to get there. It'll be an even longer journey when the lvl cap is raised to 85 soon.
I remember that even a year ago, as I was lvling a character through the Lone Lands, there would be regular LFFs for the GA instances. I have just lvled another through and dont remember seeing a single LFF this time around and when I put out a LFF myself, I had just once response even tho I ported to multiple regions to LFF at a peak playing time. These older instances could probably be played, and enjoyed, more often by newer players if at least some of us who have been in the game longer had characters who we could park at appropriate levels.
give us the possibility to scale down our higher lvl characters to the apropriate lvl of the instance by reducing our stats to the respective cap
so if you want to run a lvl 50 instance like rift, reduce our stats to 500 which was the cap at lvl 50
or:
give us the option to 'save' our characters at old lvl caps which we can 'load' when we want to do some old content again
that way we could have several versions of our characters we could gear up with the equipment at those lvl caps and simply enjoy the old content again
for example:
- save a copy of your character when you were lvl 50
- load that copy later on (say once you hit the current cap and don't know what to do anymore)
- now you can run around with your lvl 50 character, do instances, gear up and just have fun and enjoy the old lvl cap content
- this would essentially bring you back to the time when lvl 50 was still the lvl cap since those characters won't lvl up anymore
- you have all the time you want to play this content since you dont have to fear the next lvl cap increase which makes all your efforts for naught
this would make the game enjoyable once more without affecting the current gameplay at all
people would also get to know their classes way better than they do now since most of the new players are just racing to lvl cap without having any group experience, let alone raid exp.
this is one of the biggest issues right now
there are soooo many lvl 75 characters but only a handful of people actually knows how to play them at their full potential (I'd say 5-10% of all players in this game are really good at playing their class, another 20-30% are OK at it, another 20% is sup-par and the rest just has absolutely no clue - this at least is my observation)
well, I don't know how GW2 does it since I have never played it
anyways, what does it matter if some other game already has that kind of option?
as long as it works and keeps ppl happy I don't see the point in not implementing it
well, I don't know how GW2 does it since I have never played it
anyways, what does it matter if some other game already has that kind of option?
as long as it works and keeps ppl happy I don't see the point in not implementing it
In GW2, when you go back to a lower level area, you aren't automatically an immortal god. The local goblin can still backstab you and kill you, just like in "real life", where a 10 year old kid with a knife can kill an adult kung fu master. You keep your gear advantage, even though it's capped, and your level is adapted to the area you are in. But this isn't only negative, this also means you can do quests as a level 50 in a level 20 area and still get rewarded with XP and loot appropriate to your real level.
Translated to LOTRO, this would mean that a level 75 going back to the Shire would be downgraded to the local average level of the mobs. But then, for carrying pies or doing quests he passed back when he was level 5, he will get level 75 XP and level 75 rewards. As much as I would LOVE seeing that mechanic adapted in LOTRO, because it's way more realistic (an arrow at level 10 remains an arrow at level 75), I don't see it happen ever. Not only because Turbine would have to do a lot of work for that, but also because many of the players way too used to play WoW/LOTRO clones where a level 75 is a god to a level 10 would cry like there's no tomorrow.
About forgetting to turn it off, that would be the badly implemented toggle option that you are imagining. We are suggestring a well implemented one with warnings you can't miss, a red XP bar, etc
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" -R.A.Heinlein.
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious." - Murphy's Second Corollary
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Maybe it if it was a session only toggle. You have to turn it on when you log in, and it automatically turns off when you log out, but even then I'm sure there would be some who would find a way to muck up their character and then come here whining about it.
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing some form of alternate advancement paths, I'm just not creative enough to suggest any truly viable ones.
T
I do know as a yearly VIP at $99.99 a year I will not renew until an XP Disabler is created and offered in an acceptable manner.
There's the rub...it depends on what an "acceptable manner" is, and that will vary by individual.
As for green lighting it thats a moot point they already did green light it they added then removed it.
That overstates the case. The xp disable was *announced* as an "upcoming Store item" and then the announcement was withdrawn. It was never added and--therefore--not removed.
I know I would also love to see an optional XP lock that we could turn on and off at will for each toon individually. I also get disappointed when my toons out level an area, and am much more interested in playing out content than I am in racing to max level and end-game play. That's fine for those who want that, and I assume that the constant nerfing of game-play, mobs, etc is intended to accommodate those who care more for faster leveling, but allowing an entirely optional self-imposed level lock shouldn't interfere with anyone who wants to level faster.
Originally Posted by Bowman99
So I've been playing LOTRO for parts of 5 years now. One of the things that has caused my periodic absences from the game is the unavailability of certain meaningful content from the game as my characters out-level it and force me to level new ones if I want to play that content.
A perfect example is Moria. I am working my 5th toon though the Mines now and once again I have reached that bittersweet moment when the content becomes less meaningful because my character is out-leveling it (again.) I have more fun in Mora than anywhere else in the game. The content is harder for level appropriate toons than any content until the endgame and it is actually more challenging than most endgame content is for 75's.
I'm also re-connecting again with how hard it is to level legendary items while still at the appropriate levels in the 50's and early 60's. From 53 to 58 I've gotten a 2nd Age Bow to level 30 somehow despite only having one other weapon leveling alongside it.
So here's my question: Why can't we just turn off character XP and have that XP go in some prorated form to legendary items?
I'd love to take a dwarf and just have him live in Moria at level 60 for eternity. I'd be able to find like-minded people who would do the same thing, just to have good dungeon crawls again and lots of them to choose from.
Similarly I'd probably love to have a hobbit eternally at level 15 or so in the Shire. The roleplaying would be better there if everything I looked at didn't just roll over and die instantly. I might even finally get a farmer/cook leveled if he'd be able to stay profitably in the Shire.
Why is this not an option? It would be a simple change, since Turbine obviously can turn off leveling at 75. It would allow players to keep the content much fresher for themselves than any Turbine revamp ever could. It would take a lot of the pressure off to make high level instances scalable. It would allow new players to find a vibrant world to play in with lots of people looking to run low level instances.
There's the rub...it depends on what an "acceptable manner" is, and that will vary by individual.
That overstates the case. The xp disable was *announced* as an "upcoming Store item" and then the announcement was withdrawn. It was never added and--therefore--not removed.
--W. H. Heydt
Old Used Programmer
Actually it was added then removed it was in the store for about 2 hours then Pulled.
Actually it was added then removed it was in the store for about 2 hours then Pulled.
What matters is whether anyone actually bought and used it or not. I suspect "not". My guess on what happened with that was that it was originally slated for RoI, but was cut... and nobody told the Turbine Quartermaster. They schedule their "sales" well in advance, so he may have been offering a sale on a feature that didn't actually exist.
If I'm correct, I don't think the community's commentary at the time helped improve its odds of being picked back up off the cutting room floor -- there were lots of complaints about paying for something that they thought should be free. I realize that you personally said you'd be willing to pay for it if it were per-account and was a true toggle - without expiration. But there were many others who objected to paying for it at all, which is how a lot of "niche" features are going to be funded in this business model.
What matters is whether anyone actually bought and used it or not. I suspect "not". My guess on what happened with that was that it was originally slated for RoI, but was cut... and nobody told the Turbine Quartermaster. They schedule their "sales" well in advance, so he may have been offering a sale on a feature that didn't actually exist.
If I'm correct, I don't think the community's commentary at the time helped improve its odds of being picked back up off the cutting room floor -- there were lots of complaints about paying for something that they thought should be free. I realize that you personally said you'd be willing to pay for it if it were per-account and was a true toggle - without expiration. But there were many others who objected to paying for it at all, which is how a lot of "niche" features are going to be funded in this business model.
Khafar
I disagree I think Many will pay for it.....
How amny complained the premium wallet should have been free but when it came right down to it many willingly paid.
I saw very few say ahead of time they were willing to pay for the wallet.
Yet many say they are willing to pay for the XP Toggle.
Many Like Me are willing to Cancel VIP if they do not implement it in some way.
Niche or not we provide income to Turbine Income they stand to lose.
Every Play style In lotro is a niche market.
Those that PVMP are a Nich Market but they have store Items available.
Those that skirmish are a niche those that run raids are a niche those that rush to endgame are a Niche
but they all have Items in the store available to assist them in thier Niche play style.
Casual Gamers, RPers, and completionists those that want to stay on level and complete
more of the content represent a large Niche Market.
With more and more casual Gamers coming in every day and more frustration over rolling
alts to experiance the content on level the Niche is growing.
The frustration of outdated content instances skirmishes drives people away an XP Toggle makes Level
5o former end game content Viable and Fun again Forever Minor updates revamps replace full scale
content expansions other then the Large ones Like ROI and ROR and people would be happy have
good content to enjoy until the next Cap Increase.
Speaking of Cap Increases there is much frustration over that as well many may chose to make a niche
for them selves parking a Character at 50 at 65 at 75 at 85 to help friends complete the original endgame content.
It would give all these log term players with alts yet another reason to continue to play continue to Pay continue to
enjoy all that is Lotro.
Yes a growing Niche that could be very profitable for Turbine.
Or a Huge Loss if they drop the Ball again.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" -R.A.Heinlein.
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious." - Murphy's Second Corollary
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Maybe it if it was a session only toggle. You have to turn it on when you log in, and it automatically turns off when you log out, but even then I'm sure there would be some who would find a way to muck up their character and then come here whining about it.
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing some form of alternate advancement paths, I'm just not creative enough to suggest any truly viable ones.
I don't disagree with you. I encounter human-computer interaction issues in my work, all the time. The thing is you don't deny everyone else of a feature just because a small number users might find it difficult.
You concentrate on making a good implementation of the feature which mitigates those potential issues. Hence we have features like deconstructing your LI or deleting your character, but you get warnings before you take those steps.
If they decide to cut every new thing where someone complains on the forums that they want it for free, nothing new will be added to the game ever again...
The reason we see more and more of these posts is that the problem gets worse and worse.
Turbine has stated that they want the time it takes to level to cap to be constant. They accomplish this by speeding up leveling every time they raise the level cap. As more and more people start feeling forced to skip through the end of questlines and zones, they will want to slow down at those places. It was not very noticeable when the cap went up to 60, so we did not get very many complaints back then. After RoR hits and the cap goes up to 85, with even faster leveling, there will be even more complaints than now.
As to those who suggest doing grey quests, would you play LOTRO if all content in the game was of gray quest level difficulty? If no, then why do you imagine that anyone would want to play half the game that way?
As an aside, if leveling goes twice as fast, the chance of finding a group for on-level content goes down to 20% or so of what it was. Wait, should not that be 50%? No, because not only do you have half the time of finding a group before you outlevel the quest/instance (assuming that you continue to quest while you wait, rather than just stop and stare at the screen for hours), but since everyone else also levels past at twice the speed, the available pool of on-level players is only half as big.
Would not that just bring it down to 25%? Yes, but if you are doing challenging content, you usually need a somewhat specific group set up. Rather than just having 6 randoms, you need a tank and a healer + 4. As the pool of players goes down, the chances of finding this specific combination of players goes down even more. (Probably to less than 20%, but I haven't really done the math.)
Fleeting Hope appears on the Horizon.....
It shimers in the wake of frustrations
IT wavers Just out of reach....
WHen Will we actually Grasp the ring of XP Control.
Q1: Will you ever have an experience eliminator/on-off switch? - Justin Viskoc
A: Since we’ve already done some work on an experience disabler, I’d say the odds are real good J. It’s not 100% polished yet and until it is, here also is the standard fine print line that there is no commitment implied here as to when it will see the light of day. - Linda “LLena” Currie, Design Director
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