Thread: No. More. Content.

Originally Posted by Marcaran

I'd like to see a letter like this from them:

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=2672

Ever since last summer's fiascoes and the mass exodus of players which included many longtime, well-known EVE personalities (and, although not in that group by a long shot, included my 3 subs and the closing of my blog), EVE has been valiantly trying to turn things around. That blog letter from CEO Hilmar was a long time in coming but was very much needed. As I understand it, the subs have started climbing again mostly due to the fact that...

1. They've opened the floodgates on the channels of communication both between the players and CCP and in CCP's open and much more frequent blogs.
2. CCP has done an about-face in their stance on fixing/upgrading broken/buggy/unbalanced game issues and features and on addressing less-than-polished, unfinished content and features.
3. In line with #2, they have begun delaying releasing content or, in lieu of that, releasing updates and expansions in phases, if the content is not polished enough for release instead of trying to stick to a set-in-stone release date no matter how buggy or unfinished the content is.

Any of that sound familiar? But in all honesty, I don't expect to see any of that from Turbine/WB with regards to LOTRO. Although many of the Turbine devs and community personas do indeed love this game, too many have lost the vision and spark that was there at the beginning.

Originally Posted by Livejazz

I agree there's a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed, but I think it's a gigantic exaggeration to claim that the game is "unplayable."

I really wish people would make their cases without the hyperbole.

I would love for you and any others who take this stance to sit at my computer and play LOTRO for 4 hours, no, make that an hour because you'd never make it to 4 hours. Then tell me that my claim of the game being "unplayable" is hyperbole. If the game was playable, I'd be in there right now instead of sitting here in the forums replying to you and others about whether or not the game is unplayable.

Originally Posted by kimano

Can we stop with this kind of hyperbole, please? If it was as bad as you all think it is, why are there still a lot of people logging in(at least on brandywine). I think the game is just fine. yes there are bugs to fix, but they don't make the game impossible to play.

Maybe I can have fun while I play.

Read my previous response to Livejazz. As for 'a lot of people logging in', I log in almost every night in the hopes that I can play. But when it takes me 5+ hours to do content that would normally take me less than 2 hours; and I've died numerous times because I've frozen in place and skills wouldn't fire while the mob just beat the poop out of me; and some of the content, especially timed content, is impossible to finish because the lag slows or stops me numerous times while the timer keeps ticking away... it's not enjoyable to put it mildly, and to be blunt, that's unplayable.

Originally Posted by Cindir

It's not you that is not right - it's your arguments.

How about this one: "I don't have any problems, so this is not really a big deal".

Or this one:
After player's A, B, C, D and E say they cannot play the game because of the lag issues.
"Stop exaggerating. I hardly think the game is 'unplayable' ".

Cannot Play means unplayable. But let's all pretend these are minor bugs, even though so many have said they cannot play the game at all. Not to mention the people who have given up raiding because they cannot do the raids .

My favorite answer: "I am not having any problems, so stop whining/go away and play something else."

I am not saying that josh13333 is saying any of these things. Just answering your general question and responding to your "a lot of us".

THIS --^ (+Rep)

Originally Posted by whheydt

If players A, B, C, and D say theat they can't play because of lag issues, while players E, F, G, and H say, "What lag issues?", that suggests rather strongly that whatever is going on, it's NOT the servers. One needs to look at ISPs, PCs, routers, switches, and all the intermediate network activities.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

W. H., even Turbine has implied that the issues could very well be in the client-side code or in their relays/switches/etc, or both. No one is saying it's the servers, or at least not the majority of us, but it IS a direct result of something that was introduced with the U6 & U7 releases. It is affecting players from all over the world at different playing times, players in groups simultaneously, on every server, and all with a myriad of hardware/software setups and a plethora of different ISPs all with a nearly infinite variety of routes to the gaming servers. THAT suggests rather strongly that whatever is going on is NOT the ISP's, PCs, or anything else on the customer's end but in fact is something within the code itself that is not communicating correctly with the servers.

Originally Posted by Adder

THAT suggests rather strongly that whatever is going on is NOT the ISP's, PCs, or anything else on the customer's end but in fact is something within the code itself that is not communicating correctly with the servers.

All of which taken together suggests that there is some config issue that affects *some* PCs, but not all. As I've noted, I haven't seen the problems and I spend a fair amount of time in game. I don't say that to claim the problem doesn't exist, but only to point out that, since it it isn't universal, there are configurations that *don't* have problems, as well as ones that do.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I totally agree that there are a lot of things that are more important than new content atm.
As everything stands I can't play my favorite character at all, that being my warg. I can do end game raiding on my freeps without problem but I can't play the one part of the game I really enjoy.
I have a top end gaming computer and had no problems before last update. Many times when the game has frozen on me or crashed, I've been on vent/ts/raidcall and those have continued working so I know it's nothing to do with my internet. If my internet was bad then I'd have been thrown out of whatever chatting program as well.

Also the fact that I can play content that requires a lot from my computer, ie. endgame raids but can't play my warg with a single freep nearby, suggests that it's not my computer as endgame raiding takes a lot more from a computer than a single freep riding past a stealthed warg.

At this point I barely even bother to log in to the game anymore as I can't play my main char and I can't take part in the content I like in game. This, to me, is the exact meaning of unplayable.

I am honestly shocked that any company would ever allow their product to fall to such a standard and sincerely hope something will be done very soon to fix the bugs and errors in the game. Ppl will want new content, yes. But new content is worth very little when the quality keeps dropping. At the current rate I guess it's only a matter of time before the ppl now saying they have no problems will get affected by this too.

Originally Posted by Adder

Read my previous response to Livejazz. As for 'a lot of people logging in', I log in almost every night in the hopes that I can play. But when it takes me 5+ hours to do content that would normally take me less than 2 hours; and I've died numerous times because I've frozen in place and skills wouldn't fire while the mob just beat the poop out of me; and some of the content, especially timed content, is impossible to finish because the lag slows or stops me numerous times while the timer keeps ticking away... it's not enjoyable to put it mildly, and to be blunt, that's unplayable.

un·play·a·ble/ˌənˈplāəbəl/
Adjective:

Not able to be played or played on.
(of music) Too difficult or bad to perform

hy·per·bo·le
   [hahy-pur-buh-lee]
noun Rhetoric .
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”


You say you can still log on and play, right? Then it is hyperbole(see definition 2) to say the game is unplayable. Also, as stated as above by many people, there are a lot of people that aren't having the issues. Yes some people are having problems. I can't do raids at the moment because I lag up with even if there is only 2 enemies on the screen(which is worse than a year or two ago) however I am still having fun playing the festival and leveling.

I am not saying that you are wrong or that you need to shut up and deal with that. However speaking for the entire playerbase and saying these problems are causing everyone to have unplayable and ###### experience. There are people who are still logging in and having great old time, bugs be darned.

Normally a squeaky wheel gets greased, since people want a nice quiet ride through life with minimal whining. But that really depends on how you look at the vehicle.

If you plan on keeping it for a long time, you take time to fix it and such, spend money, that sort of thing. And if it starts getting all squeaky, you apply grease, liberally.

If however you plan on riding the thing into the ground, you ignore the squeaking until the wheels fall off, since you don't care what happens, as long as the vehicle performs well enough to keep things moving along until the date you selected for disposal comes up.

This is not a case I think applies here, they seem to be spending money on adding bling (new content and store items they sell for pure profit), even if they do ignore the air pressure, because even with all the squeaking, it seems to still be running and doing the job of making profit. When the profit goes away, they might decide to start fixing the long term bugs, or just flip it for the next big thing, like some unknown Hobbit flavored MMO.

Until such time as the profit margin is not as large as the amount of complaints, don't hold your breath. That's just a reality of the business today, even if it is bad for consumers.

Nevermind. Probitas says it better.

Yes, there's stuff that needs fixing, but a few things should be noted:

• The content developers don't fix or balance classes, and most of them don't work on raids either.
• The world builders don't fix or balance classes, and don't fix buggy instances.
• None of the above write or fix server code. Nor client code, for that matter.

They can do new quests, new regions, new story without using any of the resources that would fix/balance classes and instances (or "lag issues", no matter where it resides), so there's really no reason to suggest "no new content".

Khafar

Originally Posted by kimano

You say you can still log on and play, right? Then it is hyperbole(see definition 2) to say the game is unplayable.

Yes, the free 2+ year old festival events are largely bug-free, but this handful of quests and cosmetics are no substitute for paid instances and regions that are bugged to the point of being completely unplayable under certain circumstances.

Originally Posted by whheydt

All of which taken together suggests that there is some config issue that affects *some* PCs, but not all. As I've noted, I haven't seen the problems and I spend a fair amount of time in game. I don't say that to claim the problem doesn't exist, but only to point out that, since it it isn't universal, there are configurations that *don't* have problems, as well as ones that do.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Y'know, that's a good point you raise, that I totally skipped over that (so obvious) possibility, while wondering about this affecting many, but not all. If this is the issue, I am seriously curious, what sort of little config thinger it could be.

I've already posted in past threads, that I am personally not experiencing serious lagspike issues. So I should prolly apologize for posting yet again.
(While I do count the travel stables freezing as an issue, it's in no way making the game "unplayable".) This time around I can truely say that I was not out soloing Great River or Dunland around by my lonesome... because I just spent almost 24 hours online the other day/night/day. Completed all four wings of Orthanc (first time in 3 of the wings), Defeated the Watcher raid (FINALLY! for the first time), Draigoch run completed (have never experienced it bugging out), and then even stuck around for a partial DN run (Sleep finally claimed me after first 3 bosses). So I can definitely state that I was not out soloing around. (While I did die in the Orthanc acid boss twice, those were not lagspikes. They were from my own inexperience with just jamming on the spacebar & running & chewing gum & texting friends *LOL, JK! *, etc. Which frankly felt downright awkward in a long line of tradtional Lotro instances.) Someone has made a youtube of the acid boss with Mario Brothers music in the background, right? /Google

Now while the Orthanc run went smoothly for 11 of us, the twelfth person we are not sure about. He said he crashed to desktop, then later came back and then said he had someone at his door. Most of our group was hesitant to keep him along. Wether or not his computer issues were real. It did not effect the other 11 of us, who experienced no performance issues worth complaining about.

I actually had 4 modem disconnects in the early AM (at the start of Fire wing), but I was able to communicate via a still working chat channel to the group my sitch. The folks waited it out, until I felt that I was fully stabilized. (Possible Comcast morning maintenance, since the TV went out at the same exact times my char froze.) Even weirder is that I could keep my connection alive long enough that the Lotro server did not kick me, through all 4 (possible 5) disconnects. That definitely wasn't Lotro's issue, so yeah, no server issues at all. Possibly some hiccups in animations, but no skill lockups, no mass freezes after running multiple instances.

I am genuinely curious, and I hope that Turbine might share some of their newer theories. (especially because I do find the randomly freezing stables irritating.) If there's anything that a dxdiag log from my computer could contribute in any way, they are welcome to it. Would it be rude/wrong of me to submit a /bug labeled "Lotro's working fine for me" and then attach the dxdiag file? Because I keep forgetting to.

Originally Posted by whheydt

If players A, B, C, and D say theat they can't play because of lag issues, while players E, F, G, and H say, "What lag issues?", that suggests rather strongly that whatever is going on, it's NOT the servers. One needs to look at ISPs, PCs, routers, switches, and all the intermediate network activities.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Can't use this statement as proof of server stability
because like you stated its servers not server

Players (a,b,c & d) may be situated on server say for ex. K and
players (e,f,g & h) may be playing on server N.

a server is no more then a physical computer (a computer hardware system) dedicated for running
one or more services (as a host) to serve the needs of users of the other computers.

and Lotro like any other MMo uses a lot of those

Originally Posted by TheStormKing

Minstrel skills.... Broken.
Dragon..... Bugged.
GM Policies..... Need updating.
Captain buffs.... Bugged.
Loremasters..... Invisible.
Sound...... Broken.
Lightning....... Bugged.

I could go on. Aside from the fact that every expansion simply makes us destroy our *ahem* LEGENDARY items, can we please get this game playable first? Then you may proceed with new content.

Yours in disappointment,


Black Hawk

Having read the tentative bullroarer 7.1 update, they are fixing minstrel cappy and lore-master bugs, and as far as sound and lighting, could you be a little more specific please?

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

Oh hell no. I don't want to go through that content drought anymore. It sucked. Keep the new content coming. If I have to chose between really polished software or regular content, I'll choose regular content hands down.

It is this comment that pretty much sums up our current state in LOTRO. I believe most people are content with the game bugs and all as long as they have regular new content to feast upon. I am sure Turbine's data mining supports this, therefore, 'inorder to keep the cash a flowin they must keep the content a rollin'.

This commitment of Turbine's to have more content updates this year is by it's very nature going introduce more bugs. Turbine just doesnt have the time to adequately test it before they release it. That is why I have come to realize that it really not a man-power thing as much as it is a time thing. Which is something that is kind of out of their control if they must please the masses to bring in the $$$.

I, personally, would favor less content over time for the sake of it being more polished upon release, but I am probably in the minority here along with a few others who have posted in this thread.

It seems Nymphonic's comment represents a majority of those who play who have a voice in these forums. I say it this way because it is fact that the true majority of players of Lotro never post in these forums at all and yet, they probably are more likely to be content with the way things are than not.

With that being said I would have to agree with others that this game is by no means broken and unplayable, but are there in-game annoyances...? For me at least, I can say absolutely YES! Do I still play...? Absolutely!

I am here for the long haul! Not so much because of what Turbine does or doesn't do, but because of what JRR Tolkien DID DO!!!

So, having said my peace - from the forums to the game I go!

Welden

Originally Posted by Maxxel

Can't use this statement as proof of server stability
because like you stated its servers not server

Players (a,b,c & d) may be situated on server say for ex. K and
players (e,f,g & h) may be playing on server N.

a server is no more then a physical computer (a computer hardware system) dedicated for running
one or more services (as a host) to serve the needs of users of the other computers.

and Lotro like any other MMo uses a lot of those

Indeed. In particular, given layering and instances, it is pretty nigh certain that a group that simultaneously suffers a lag spike is on a different hardware server than folk on the landscape.

I love LOTRO. Seriously, last 2 years I have spend way more time in the game than with my family.
I used to defend Turbine. I could try to understand them.

And then it came the last free-pass weekend of SW:TOR. End of story.
You just see it's newer. Instances, PvP, technology wise it's way ahead.
Did I mentioned every class got it's own epic storyline?

I love LOTRO. I will be back once and then for my friends and for the love of the LOTR lore.
But I will spend my time elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Adder

I would love for you and any others who take this stance to sit at my computer and play LOTRO for 4 hours, no, make that an hour because you'd never make it to 4 hours

I have no idea why your computer can't handle LOTRO for even one hour, much less four. Mine has no such issues. Calling the game "unplayable" is pure hyperbole, because it's quite playable for me, which means that whatever issues you're having are not affecting everyone.

NB: IMO, crashing once in a 4-hour time span (which has occasionally happened to me) does not render the game "unplayable." Lag spikes every now & then do not render the game "unplayable." The situation Adder describes does render the game "unplayable," for HIM/HER.

But Adder's situation is not anywhere even remotely close to mine, thus my disagreement, & my belief that the issue is causing Turbine engineers to tear their hair out.

Originally Posted by welden

I, personally, would favor less content over time for the sake of it being more polished upon release, but I am probably in the minority here along with a few others who have posted in this thread.

I'm not sure I'd so far as to actually favor that, but I'd certainly have no objections to a modestly slower pace of new content releases, say full updates on a 3-4 month cycle instead of a 2-3 month cycle. I'd also be willing to see expansions on a 15 month cycle, rather than a 12 month cycle.

On the other hand...mine is also most likely a minority position, and not one I'd make a fuss over.

Edit to add...I'd also be willing to see--occasionally--an entire update cycle of 3-4 months devoted solely to bug fixes and tweaks. Though it would be best if Turbine announced that such an update cycle was coming so as to keep the MORE CONTENT NOW crowd from going ballistic over it.


--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by TheStormKing

Minstrel skills.... Broken.
Dragon..... Bugged.
GM Policies..... Need updating.
Captain buffs.... Bugged.
Loremasters..... Invisible.
Sound...... Broken.
Lightning....... Bugged.

I could go on. Aside from the fact that every expansion simply makes us destroy our *ahem* LEGENDARY items, can we please get this game playable first? Then you may proceed with new content.

Yours in disappointment,


Black Hawk

I agree with the legendary items part. I have never liked that. But that is not a broken thing; it is working properly as it was designed to do. As for the rest: (ignoring the obvious over-statements) let’s balance it by listing what works perfectly well. On second thought, never mind; you would be gone for a month typing it out.

The game is not “unplayable”. For my part, please continue with new content.

Originally Posted by TheStormKing

Minstrel skills.... Broken.
Dragon..... Bugged.
GM Policies..... Need updating.
Captain buffs.... Bugged.
Loremasters..... Invisible.
Sound...... Broken.
Lightning....... Bugged.

I could go on. Aside from the fact that every expansion simply makes us destroy our *ahem* LEGENDARY items, can we please get this game playable first? Then you may proceed with new content.

Yours in disappointment,


Black Hawk

Yeah, god forbids the guy who churns out textures for the next expansion keeps doing that before some recently introduced bugs in the engine or scripting are fixed and a patch is pushed to your game client.

Have you been introduced to the concept of having multiple people work on different parts of a project in parallel ?

Originally Posted by kimano

You say you can still log on and play, right? Then it is hyperbole(see definition 2) to say the game is unplayable. Also, as stated as above by many people, there are a lot of people that aren't having the issues. Yes some people are having problems.

Did you even read what he wrote? He specifically said that, for him, the game was basically unplayable. Yet you come here citing fancy definitions and stating that he must obviously be using hyperbole because YOU don't experience game-breaking problems with the game.

Or... wait, maybe you DO?

Originally Posted by kimano

I can't do raids at the moment because I lag up with even if there is only 2 enemies on the screen(which is worse than a year or two ago) however I am still having fun playing the festival and leveling.

So, what you were saying is that the game is not to be called unplayable because... you can do the festivals just fine? REALLY? Case in point, you would like to do raids, but you can't: I am not sure how that doesn't qualify as 'unplayable' and therefore: You sir/ma'am are a fanboi if I have ever seen one.

SNy

There is thunder in the air.

Yep. Folks is gettin' testy agin.

Originally Posted by SNy-lotrolinux-EU

Did you even read what he wrote? He specifically said that, for him, the game was basically unplayable. Yet you come here citing fancy definitions and stating that he must obviously be using hyperbole because YOU don't experience game-breaking problems with the game.

Or... wait, maybe you DO?

What is exactly your point? Even your argument? It just seems you are being a troll for the sake of being one. I put the definations so you can see where I am coming and making my arguments in a logical and in the manner of what I was taught on what a debate is supposed to consist of. Facts.

The game isn't unplayable, it is more difficult to play. oh wait this the internet where arguments and debates consisting of children calling others out without providing any real facts and making claims.

So, what you were saying is that the game is not to be called unplayable because... you can do the festivals just fine? REALLY? Case in point, you would like to do raids, but you can't: I am not sure how that doesn't qualify as 'unplayable' and therefore: You sir/ma'am are a fanboi if I have ever seen one.

SNy

I can still play solo. oh wait. Just because I can't do 25% of the game it is unplayable(raids are not the part of the game you know). what a load. Hyperbole at it's perfection and above all typical internet debate.

oh and how are you going to end that? Let's see I thought you might have something more to say, but you went the cliched route. when all else fails and you can't debate let's throw the fanboi/fangirl label out there(because insulting someone brings the debate to a close). wow, what debating skills! I bow to you sir! you win!(and I am purposely throwing out more internet cliches....just in case you want to call me out on being a hypocrite.)

Originally Posted by kimano

I put the definations so you can see where I am coming and making my arguments in a logical and in the manner of what I was taught on what a debate is supposed to consist of. Facts.

You stated that those with problems are calling the game unplayable for everyone, which is not true. (If such posts did exist and have since been removed, I apologize.)

When making an argument against using hyperbole, it may be wise to avoid using hyperbole in your own argument.

When the spelling "fanboi" is used, then yes kimano, 90% of the time you are in fact dealing with a troll.

Just a helpful hint I've learned to look out for.

To me its not really the "unplayability" or "game breaking" bugs that bother me, i fully understand a product such as this has vast amounts of coding and thus will have certain issues arise. While new content is always nice, having a more polished version is a lot nicer, if it takes an extra month to release an update that enjoyable and not riddled with defects then i would have no problem with it. Even then i would expect there to be bugs, but not on the level there seems to be now.

Its more of the principle of the matter, the reintroduction of previously fixed bugs, over, and over and over really perplexes me and leads me to believe either their QA team is inadequate or Turbine simply doesn't care.

I'm very quickly leaning towards the latter.

Originally Posted by josh13333

When the spelling "fanboi" is used, then yes kimano, 90% of the time you are in fact dealing with a troll.

Just a helpful hint I've learned to look out for.

Maybe it's better not to use any labels. Is calling someone a troll better than calling them a fanboi?

Also, in that post, he is actually not trolling at all. He is just stating his opinion and logically continuing the argument.

Think what you will of the using the fanboy label, but I agree with his points. If you call someone a troll you should understand the meaning of "trolling". I don't think he was doing anything like that.

What was the topic again? Oh yes - it is: the game is fine, perfect, and wonderful vs. please fix the bugs.

Originally Posted by monteeburns

Except it all started at the same time for all the people with lag, with update 6, and yet these people seem unaffected with other online games. It's either at Turbines end or the biggest co-incidence in the history of the universe that so many peoples PCs, ISPs, routers etc went wrong on exactly the same day, and only for Lotro. Even more of a co-incidence that the PCs / ISPs from all over the world of entire raids lag at exactly the same time no?
Man up and accept this isn't at the users end.

Originally Posted by whheydt

All of which taken together suggests that there is some config issue that affects *some* PCs, but not all. As I've noted, I haven't seen the problems and I spend a fair amount of time in game. I don't say that to claim the problem doesn't exist, but only to point out that, since it it isn't universal, there are configurations that *don't* have problems, as well as ones that do.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

It true it MIGHT be a configuration on the computer played on, however, if it is a configuration that configuration seems to be fairly common but not all would use it. And for many people LotRO seems to be the only game encoutering this issue. No matter how you look at it the error is not with the player and his configuration but with the actual coding of the game (wether client or server side). If 1/3 of a server get a 20k+ ping at the exact same time there's somethign wrong (was quite fun reading global when it happened).
Now, since these issues were issued in a certain release the most obvious thing to do should be to go through the changes in the previous version and the released version and see what went wrong because something obviously did

Look at the bright side - when raiding, at least the servers only lock up every 5-10 seconds and lag the group our for a few seconds.

Wait..that's not a very bright side, nevermind.

Originally Posted by whheydt

Edit to add...I'd also be willing to see--occasionally--an entire update cycle of 3-4 months devoted solely to bug fixes and tweaks. Though it would be best if Turbine announced that such an update cycle was coming so as to keep the MORE CONTENT NOW crowd from going ballistic over it.

+1 rep.

I want this, exactly. I hope Turbine takes note of this thread, not just the sheer length, but the passion of all involved (especially including me in that), and especially the long-time subscribers that have weighed in (also including me).

A window just for bug fixes, and no new content, would do wonders for this.

Get Draigoch right. Get the lag right. Get some GM events. Get the GM Policy right. Spend a couple months cleaning up some cobwebbed parts of the code that just work, but could be better. Let us know that's what you are doing. Be informative. (Use the makers of EVE as an example?). You have been better at this, but not GREAT. What you will find is the the players will respond, and will play more... and when F2P play more, they buy more.

Then, when the next game comes around, you won't see such a huge dip in the game, as people are eager to find a better game, because of the frustration that this one could be So Much More... And Isn't.

With Much Love,


TSK

p.s. It's hard to write satire when it feels too close to the truth.

I actually put this on the suggestions forum a while back. Just fix bugs. It doesn't take knowing Turbine's software to know you can't build new content on bugged content. Well... apparently you CAN... buy you shouldn't.

I've experienced over a dozen significant bugs just over the weekend...

- bugged stable routes costing me time, in game money, and the loss of timed quests.

- invisible mobs attacking me and forcing me to use long CDs to feign/hips/heal/etc. to cause them to reset since I can't attack back.

- draigoch bugging.

- camera getting stuck and not allowing zoom in/ zoom out.

- Class skills across the board.

- perma fog forcing a log out.

- ports not working yet still consuming CD.

.... etc, etc, etc.

The single thing that makes this tolerable is the price of the game. The thing that makes it worse is the continuous way more store resources are being invented.

I'm waiting on the STEAM announcement before I make any game decisions on continuing to be patient with all of this... but I'm not being optimistic that a thread was deleted over the topic.

It's a great thread with two sides making one valid point. We want content and less bugs, seriously! One or the other simply will not do. Look at the more recent threads on the bugs making the game very unpleasant for many. Then look back at the period of time when we all clamored for updates. People were just as vehement about the lack of updates and releases as they are about the bug issues we have now.

It seems ridiculous to support one side or the other when it should not come down to a matter of choice. Personally, the bugs do not effect my play style; they do however effect the game in general and that's enough to be an issue in my eyes. Since the bugs do not directly effect me, pushing off content would have kept me from playing as well. Clearly lack of content AND bugs is a Lose/Lose scenario. We don't need one OR the other.

Originally Posted by Daec

...Its more of the principle of the matter, the reintroduction of previously fixed bugs, over, and over and over really perplexes me and leads me to believe either their QA team is inadequate or Turbine simply doesn't care....

When looking at who, what, where and why for the reason any product doesn't work as advertised, I always remember that the people assembling the toaster get paid very little compared to the CEO of the company.

I do not believe anyone goes to work thinking "today I will do crummy work", "today I will slip all the bugs in", "today I will make the system worse". Of course some of this happens (sabotage) but how much is intentional on the part of the workers?

In the never ending fight between: Management, Marketing, Engineering and QA, QA will never will (not in all my years of experience in SW). QA can say "bug here, bug there, reintroduced bug" until "the cows come home" but Management, Marketing and Engineering will override them every time.

Engineering works on whatever the Marketing folks say with the pitch-fork of Management pointing at them saying: Get something out the door NOW.

Marketing pretends to know what customers want and if for some odd reason Engineering builds what Marketing says and it flops well... you all know what happens next. The good thing for Marketing is that Engineering never builds what Marketing wants because a) we're engineers and we can do X to make it "cleaner" or if we do Y then that improves the compile time of the code... There's always something Engineering does that gets Marketing off the hook. Not only that but Marketing gets to say "Well that would have sold if you got it out 6 months ago..."

When you get to the Management level... now you face the big guns with the big bucks but sometimes not in the right spots. But the Buck Stops Here.

If you don't like the state of the game, some poor shmoe in QA isn't to blame. Nor is the programmer who just found out that the guy who was supposed to give him an interface to X module left the company and didn't write a single line of code in the year he was there (yeah that happened to me in RL). The Marketing guys are not in there sloshing code around the system. But when you get to the Management... well The Buck Stops There.

Even so, Turbine can only do what WB says and with the money that WB gives them. No boss at Turbine is reaching into their salaries to fund an extra programmer because the WB budget only allows N programmers and they really could use Nx2 programmers. No one would unless you are the owner of the company and you might not be able to fund it out of your pocket, so you have to Make Do.

That the accountants have already figured out how much money they will get from this game and have already figured out the end-point/pull-the-plug trigger (e.g. see actuaries), we the players, can not expect more or better, only what they give us and when they decide to so.

But for me, the workers are doing the best they can with what they have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuary

Originally Posted by Menathradon

The dragon bugs out when you do the claws on phase 3 when everyones in the gold.

Try this.. kill 2 claws, group up, let him do his fly in the air animation, then kill the next 2 claws.

repeat this till he's dead.. should work...


The dragon is a very complicated fight with many moving parts going on... not trying to make excuses for the devs... but just saying... looks like it took a lot of work to create.

I actually didn't think that was a bug, but a part of the fight. I think the original poster just wants the dragon fight nerfed not fixed.

I also don't think the game is unplayable at all. And I would rather have more content rather then "fixes", which is just another word for "nerfing", or changes in cosmetic game play rather then actual game play.

Originally Posted by Fralin

It true it MIGHT be a configuration on the computer played on, however, if it is a configuration that configuration seems to be fairly common but not all would use it. And for many people LotRO seems to be the only game encoutering this issue. No matter how you look at it the error is not with the player and his configuration but with the actual coding of the game (wether client or server side). If 1/3 of a server get a 20k+ ping at the exact same time there's somethign wrong (was quite fun reading global when it happened).
Now, since these issues were issued in a certain release the most obvious thing to do should be to go through the changes in the previous version and the released version and see what went wrong because something obviously did

The question becomes...how common is "fairly common"? Is it 1% of the players, is it 10% of the players, or is it 0.01% of the players? Bear in mind that people who *aren't* having the described problems aren't going to be coming the the forums shouting about how everything is working just fine for them. This is a "squeaky wheel" phenomenon. It is exacerbated by the general truism that very few people post on the Forums at all...so one is seeing the complaints of a self-selected few. This does NOT mean that there aren't significant numbers of people having problems, after all even 1% of--say--200K players would still be 2000 people with severe problems and those problems should be fixed.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Since the release of Update 7, I've been having severe hitching and rubber-banding issues. For the first time, I've had to downgrade my graphics settings just to be able to move through the game. Rubber-banding has cost me several timed quests and the Undying title on one of my characters. And for the first time, I'm having the issue with stable mounts simply stopping in mid-run. All of these problems were being reported MONTHS before I encountered any of them. They are not fixed, and they are starting to affect more people.

Turbine, we do NOT need another expansion while we're still having problems moving from place to place. We do NOT need more raids and skirmishes when we can't rely on our melee fighters not to get snapped out of range by a sudden rubber-band. We need these problems fixed.

Originally Posted by OnyxSoulbane

New content that doesn't work is a waste of time for all concerned, players and turbine.

Wait...it doesn't WORK?!? Aww nuts! And here I was playing all that new stuff thinking that it was working pretty well for new content, with a few bugs, of course (which I /bugged rather than /posted). I'm so glad I know, now. I can log in and have a terrible time because I now recognize that nothing is as it seems and the game is really one giant bug revolving around my gaming experience.

In all seriousness, the bugs are by no means game-breaking. They're mostly inconveniences, that will be worked out with hot fixes and updates, probably even soon--the REAL soon, not the trademarked Soon.

Originally Posted by Marcaran

I'd like to see a letter like this from them:

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=2672

Turbines Management will never ever write such a letter to the players. Not only but mainly for such resons:

Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope and focus on vanity items, or as we said after the CSM visit this summer: The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

We all know that much quoted phrase, “It’s not what you say, it’s what you do,” that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward.

... and what says Turbine:

Now, we have released these starter items and some low-level players have purchased and continue to purchase them.

.... We’ll take this as a sign that we need to do a better job in clear and open communication. In the future we will take more time to explain why - not just what we’re doing.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this discussion. As always we appreciate your passion and will continue to listen to your feedback.

...and what happened?

NOTHING (good).

Sapience was flaming players, who reported the (still relevant) lag issue in saying, there are maybe 50 players who are affected.

Not a single word about, why german and french speaking players after six months still not have a translation for couple of classes (minstrel, captain, champion) to the changes cames with ROI.

No explanation why the prise of the festival mounts has been doubled (last year: 1 mount-token, and 20 festival-tokens).

And many many more such issues.

No, Turbines Management will never ever write such a letter to the players.

Regards
CA

Originally Posted by naliia

In all seriousness, the bugs are by no means game-breaking.

Not one bug. That's true.
But if a player experiencing bugs and bugs and more bugs ... and bugs which has been solved and then pached back in to the game and that for more than one time, missed translations for months, or even bugs in the store, which may cause that players buy the wrong item. Lags, mount-issues, don't working quests and so on.

Yes, in sum that is game breaking. Maybe not in one day and not in a week, but Turbine do not fix the bugs for moths or patch them back into the game again and again.

Regards
CA

Originally Posted by naliia

Wait...it doesn't WORK?!? Aww nuts! And here I was playing all that new stuff thinking that it was working pretty well for new content, with a few bugs, of course (which I /bugged rather than /posted). I'm so glad I know, now. I can log in and have a terrible time because I now recognize that nothing is as it seems and the game is really one giant bug revolving around my gaming experience.

In all seriousness, the bugs are by no means game-breaking. They're mostly inconveniences, that will be worked out with hot fixes and updates, probably even soon--the REAL soon, not the trademarked Soon.

I see a few problems with this post. The first part is the sarcasm that seems very snarky and ill-intended.

Second, how do you define "game-breaking"? When a group spends an hour getting 12 people together, goes into an instance and plays the instance properly, and then it bugs (and/or lags to a wipe) and you get absolutely nothing out of that experience... did the game not just break? Or do you simply mean that its not gamebreaking because you chose to ignore the content that is broken?

Lastly, a "hotfix" is not a term that could ever be applied to LOTRO. They don't even do WARM fixes. The lag/horse mounts... they have been "fixed" twice now... and neither of those were "hot" and both issues still exist. Could I assume as you did that I was wrong in seeing my game broken? And that sense it works for you, I must be seeing things?

Originally Posted by naliia

...

I am not having any major lag issues. So the bugs are by no means game-breaking for me. For me, they're mostly inconveniences, that will be worked out with hot fixes and updates, probably even soon--the REAL soon, not the trademarked Soon.

There, I fixed this for you. I even used bold so you can see what I fixed.
____________________________

Original:

Originally Posted by naliia

In all seriousness, the bugs are by no means game-breaking. They're mostly inconveniences, that will be worked out with hot fixes and updates, probably even soon--the REAL soon, not the trademarked Soon.

I think we can all agree that for you gameplay is not too bad.