Thread: A well-meant question (to the dev team)

Greetings,
I am one of those people that helped the genre become what it is now, by supporting it at a time when most of your current playerbase was too young (if not non-existent) to be able to afford an internet connection, or afford the equivalent PC needed to run an MMO. I am one of the people that was an active subscriber, in numerous MMOs, at a time when it was not merely a niche, but a 'hobby' one kept silent/ashamed about. A generation thanks to which this genre thrived and was allowed to become what it is today. A generation now being steadily kicked out..Lotro included..
I will refrain from commenting on the various changes within this game in particular, as it is not only too late to ammend them, but also clearly a development stance. But i will stick to something that would show me i am still taken account of, something that if applied, would not affect your, erm, "newer" clientelle..while at the same time pleasing your older players. The pause XP function. I am aware it was promised with the latest expansion, and that some "bug" kept it from making it to launch. But seriously.. just -how- hard is it to code down a self buffing spell that reduces gained XP to zero while allowing reputation increases to count? I have seen posts in this very forum wherein IT-savy folks have even written the code down for you..
I would honestly, and with all good intentions, wish to ask just how long shall it be before this makes it live.. just how long can it take for the dev team to just -stop- adding new darn mounts in the game, sit down, have themselves a cup of tea and finish that XP function..even the antichrist (the one game we will not name) has it for crying out aloud.. Rift has it, Vanguard has it..
You will -never-, -ever-, make enough content to satisfy the zergers. They only see the end of the road, and with the shallowness such a mentality entails, the shiny pixels that 'should' go along with it. They will never have enough. You can however give people the option to make this game last, the option to actually go through the existing content, enjoy the instances at their proper level, and so on.. have fun.. yes, fun, and before end-game.. which is damn impossible right now, even without taking account the ridiculous XP gains from skirmishes, won't even go there.. help us.. help you..
Even though sincerely doubting this will be answered to, barring perhaps the typical, we are looking into it type of response, i really really wanted to ask this..enough to make a post about it. Hope someone bothers. Just as i hope that whenever it is implemented, it won't be in an as impractical form as recent XP modifier additions have been (hint hint). Emphasis on impractical.

My thanks, Max

Originally Posted by Amannas

I am one of those people that helped the genre become what it is now, by supporting it at a time when most of your current playerbase was too young (if not non-existent) to be able to afford an internet connection, or afford the equivalent PC needed to run an MMO. I am one of the people that was an active subscriber, in numerous MMOs, at a time when it was not merely a niche, but a 'hobby' one kept silent/ashamed about. A generation thanks to which this genre thrived and was allowed to become what it is today. A generation now being steadily kicked out..Lotro included..

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the "new generation" of MMO players are all young in years.

Many of us, particularly in this game, are a lot closer to retirement that graduation, and the current demographic of game players is defined by outlook rather than age. I might even go so far as to suggest that the solo/casual approach is more likely to be found in the older members of the community.

It is all a state of mind, not a function of age.

Having said that, I whole-heartedly support your request. I probably wouldn't use it myself, but there are certainly plenty of people who would. (And, I suspect that they are much more likely to be found in the solo/casual community than the more "hard-core" faction who are often focused on reaching the "end-game" as quickly as possible).

Nothing to do with "hardcore", a phrase which i would avoid using, or one's age per-se.. in the off chance it was not as clear as intended, i was merely expressing how those of us that were here (or in other similar products) during their early stages find ourselves if not alienated, at the very least wishing for ways with which to emulate our past experiences.. namely in this case enjoying the journey and not rushing it to the top just cause that's how it's -supposed- to be like today.

Regardless of any misunderstandings, my sincere thanks for your reply, and obviously your (albeit sole thus far) support!

And yes,i am shamelessly bumping this ^^

The game you shall not name isn't the antichrist for the love of pete. I wish people would stop harping on that.

Anyway, I have to ask this next question because I honestly don't understand. Why do you want the option in this game? Is it because you want to run certain instances over and over again while still being at level? I can't speak for Vanguard, but I know the other 2 games you mentioned have that function basically for people to stomp over others in PvP (in my experience at any rate).

I don't think that everyone just sees the end game result and wants to rush to it as soon as possible. Hell, I've been playing for almost 3 years and my highest character is 66.

I think that as it stands, you can take your time and still be doing things at their intended level. Of course, I'm usually by myself in all manner of thinking when it comes to mmo's, but that's neither here nor there. I suppose that in my eyes, there needs to be a bigger reason for that function beyond "I'm going too fast and want to do this thing as many times as I can".

Originally Posted by Chellcn

I think that as it stands, you can take your time and still be doing things at their intended level.

In areas with multiple leveling paths, running one zone will make you outlevel the others. I.E, running quests through the Shire on-level means you outlevel Ered Luin and much of Bree-land, running Mirkwood on-level means you outlevel Enedwaith, etc.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

In areas with multiple leveling paths, running one zone will make you outlevel the others. I.E, running quests through the Shire on-level means you outlevel Ered Luin and much of Bree-land, running Mirkwood on-level means you outlevel Enedwaith, etc.

Ah of course! I forgot about that. In that type of situation, I can see where the option to turn off xp would be a good thing.

Originally Posted by Amannas

Greetings,
The pause XP function. I am aware it was promised with the latest expansion, and that some "bug" kept it from making it to launch. But seriously.. just -how- hard is it to code down a self buffing spell that reduces gained XP to zero while allowing reputation increases to count?

In a well written project, it would take about 5 minutes, while watching Simpsons, that's regardless if the project has 10 lines or 10 million lines of code. Add a boolean (0/1) variable to the character (or wherever you store character specific variables), then multiply the gained exp by that variable, leave gained rep equation as it was. Finally add a switch to the character panel to turn it on and off. Trivial. In other words the game calculates the earned exp like usual, but just before that exp is added to your total, it's multiplied by 0 or 1.

And I agree it really should have been added long ago, I hate out-levelling every area. I mean, I just entered Moria on my n-th alt, at level 54.. and I did not power level at all.

/signed. I support the idea. It is a good fit for Lotro - where its not about the end game.

I will say however, that I find leveling in Lotro actually very slow. Maybe some players like me don't need an XP off, and so never asked vocally for it.

Yes, and yes.


I'll even go one further, why not just make it a slide-bar? Scale your xp down by % with a range of 0 - 100. You want to run around and quest in all 3 "starting areas, quest and not out-level the zones...but still level up in the long run? Turn it down to 30% xp.

I think its a good thing that this is one of the first mmo's that I have played where its the story behind the quests that pushes me to complete them, not the idea of completing them to level up. It that respect, the challenge is also enjoyed as you go along and makes the game more fun. Personally, I've only finished the epic line on one toon and mainly because I always out-level the area before I finish it. Then it gets too easy and boring. Story can take it only so far, if I ride for 30 minutes to reach a place where I am supposed to be fighting for my life...and everything around me is grey, I say boo and start losing interest. XP scaling or control of your gain could totally fix this for people like me.

Originally Posted by Zaccarius

Yes, and yes.


I'll even go one further, why not just make it a slide-bar? Scale your xp down by % with a range of 0 - 100. You want to run around and quest in all 3 "starting areas, quest and not out-level the zones...but still level up in the long run? Turn it down to 30% xp.

I think its a good thing that this is one of the first mmo's that I have played where its the story behind the quests that pushes me to complete them, not the idea of completing them to level up. It that respect, the challenge is also enjoyed as you go along and makes the game more fun. Personally, I've only finished the epic line on one toon and mainly because I always out-level the area before I finish it. Then it gets too easy and boring. Story can take it only so far, if I ride for 30 minutes to reach a place where I am supposed to be fighting for my life...and everything around me is grey, I say boo and start losing interest. XP scaling or control of your gain could totally fix this for people like me.

Pretty much exactly sums up my opinion. The only thing that could possibly be better would be if, at the appropriate level, we could shunt some of our xp to ixp, even with a heavy penalty on how much was to transfer to ixp.

I like the way they do it in Everquest II. You can choose to basically freeze your level by choosing for all your XP to go into a special skills area of XP. (Nice system, allows for some customization of a class.) But what I really like is the ability to mentor down, either to a player you are grouping with, or by paying an NPC to lower your level to specific ones like 15, 20 and so on. Allowing you to enjoy quests and also repeat rep quests in a zone you would normally have outgrown.

Originally Posted by Amannas

Greetings,
I am one of those people that helped the genre become what it is now, by supporting it at a time when most of your current playerbase was too young (if not non-existent) to be able to afford an internet connection, or afford the equivalent PC needed to run an MMO. I am one of the people that was an active subscriber, in numerous MMOs, at a time when it was not merely a niche, but a 'hobby' one kept silent/ashamed about. A generation thanks to which this genre thrived and was allowed to become what it is today. A generation now being steadily kicked out..Lotro included..
I will refrain from commenting on the various changes within this game in particular, as it is not only too late to ammend them, but also clearly a development stance. But i will stick to something that would show me i am still taken account of, something that if applied, would not affect your, erm, "newer" clientelle..while at the same time pleasing your older players. The pause XP function. I am aware it was promised with the latest expansion, and that some "bug" kept it from making it to launch. But seriously.. just -how- hard is it to code down a self buffing spell that reduces gained XP to zero while allowing reputation increases to count? I have seen posts in this very forum wherein IT-savy folks have even written the code down for you..
I would honestly, and with all good intentions, wish to ask just how long shall it be before this makes it live.. just how long can it take for the dev team to just -stop- adding new darn mounts in the game, sit down, have themselves a cup of tea and finish that XP function..even the antichrist (the one game we will not name) has it for crying out aloud.. Rift has it, Vanguard has it..
You will -never-, -ever-, make enough content to satisfy the zergers. They only see the end of the road, and with the shallowness such a mentality entails, the shiny pixels that 'should' go along with it. They will never have enough. You can however give people the option to make this game last, the option to actually go through the existing content, enjoy the instances at their proper level, and so on.. have fun.. yes, fun, and before end-game.. which is damn impossible right now, even without taking account the ridiculous XP gains from skirmishes, won't even go there.. help us.. help you..
Even though sincerely doubting this will be answered to, barring perhaps the typical, we are looking into it type of response, i really really wanted to ask this..enough to make a post about it. Hope someone bothers. Just as i hope that whenever it is implemented, it won't be in an as impractical form as recent XP modifier additions have been (hint hint). Emphasis on impractical.

My thanks, Max

Wow, so basically you think anyone who doesn't play at your snail's pace is a "zerger" or "younger" player? You know, I have been playing MMOs since UO in the late 90s and I know many other long time MMO gamers that I have met who play this game. We aren't "zergers" or "younger" we are just people who like to play at a pace that is quicker than the one you choose.

I don't mind seeing this option added in for people like you, but you need to stop with the put downs and calls for making my gameplay worse simply because you don't play that way. The speed of my character advancement is just fine if not a little slow for how I play this type of game.

I also agree with this. I've often commented to friends that i wish I could turn off XP. I like to do all the content at every level and with 'rest' xp it makes it pretty impossible to do content on level. It would be nice if we could even turn off just the 'rest' xp. XP is the easiest thing in the game to get and it would be a nice option to be able to turn it off.

Don't hold your breath though....

My fear is since they started work on it, got so far to announce it, and have items in the game that state they won't work with suspended XP gain, that they ran into a critical limitation.

Either they are adjusting systems to accommodate it (less likely), or they are working on RoR (likely).

Considering many of the brand new players level characters to 75 in a week, never bother learning how to play, but successively level alts up in a matter of days before leaving the game, and Turbine raised the XP gain over level 50 a few updates ago, now in Moria, you completely out-level it before you get halfway through!

All this totally disrupts trying to group, as folks aren't at matching levels long enough. I do hope an XP "disabler" hasn't been back-burnered, or deemed too time consuming to implement (or too disruptive to the current game system).



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by irodino82

In a well written project, it would take about 5 minutes, while watching Simpsons, that's regardless if the project has 10 lines or 10 million lines of code. Add a boolean (0/1) variable to the character (or wherever you store character specific variables), then multiply the gained exp by that variable, leave gained rep equation as it was. Finally add a switch to the character panel to turn it on and off. Trivial. In other words the game calculates the earned exp like usual, but just before that exp is added to your total, it's multiplied by 0 or 1.

In a perfect world, we'd all have infinite amounts of money, hours in the day, and Easy buttons, sadly that world just doesn't exist.

Yes, adding flags to various table entries are easy, what isn't is the trivial amount of time having to do this in an environment that this industry has.

Changes like this have to be approved on quite a few levels, coders have to work up the system, UI teams have to adjust assets and create new implementations, QA teams have to test this and then test again under various loads and situations.

Then there needs to be ways to make sure that when it breaks, that it won't be a break that will cause character loss, because there's absolutely no way to implement such a thing on this level that won't break in some manner, the best you can do is minimize the damage that can be done.

After that, the implementation has to be pretty much made idiot-proof as to make sure we don't get the types of people who turn it off only to get upset when they've spent 5 hours trying to actually accrue XP and didn't because they forgot to turn it back on.

Just because some of us realize that the coding implementation in a perfect environment is about as easy as you can get doesn't mean that in the engine Turbine has created, in the environment that they develop, all with ever-evolving code-bases will have the same ease-of-implementation results.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

Considering many of the brand new players level characters to 75 in a week, never bother learning how to play, but successively level alts up in a matter of days before leaving the game

I doubt there are very many players that have done what you describe.

Wish People would research a little and post in the multi page existing threads rather then starting new ones.
It is by keeping threads active and on the front page of New Posts that you get TURBINES attention.
Flash in the pan single page Threads that last a hour or so then drop to the 3rd or 4th page do not help the cause.

Many Many people have asked for the XP disabler many suggestions and ways to impliment it.
If all are gathered in one long thread TURBINE Sees the interest the need and the reasons why we want it.

It is High Time actuall Well Past Time for this to exist in this game for those that want to use it.
The XP toggle only effects those that want to use it no one else so never understood why so many do
not want US to enjoy the Game our way we do not want to stop them from enjoying it thier way.

Anyways Post to the older longer threads as well Show Support and keep the topic on top and relevent.
Lets get and Keep Turbines attention.

All that just to ask for an XP stopper?

Anyway, as to the XP stopper; what happens when you forget to turn it off? (or XP back on, which ever way you look at it)

I can see thousands of tickets being sent to Turbine from people who left it on/off too long and are having issues getting the next levels.

I think it much better to not have the option. You can still do the optional areas. If you are over level, you will eventually stop gaining XP from Mob kills and very little XP from quests. So it is close to turning off XP. I think this a better option than having people struggle to level due to miscalculating.

Originally Posted by Toranoga

All that just to ask for an XP stopper?

Anyway, as to the XP stopper; what happens when you forget to turn it off? (or XP back on, which ever way you look at it)

I can see thousands of tickets being sent to Turbine from people who left it on/off too long and are having issues getting the next levels.

I think it much better to not have the option. You can still do the optional areas. If you are over level, you will eventually stop gaining XP from Mob kills and very little XP from quests. So it is close to turning off XP. I think this a better option than having people struggle to level due to miscalculating.

Clearly you do not get it.

The epics the story line the lanscape content is much more fun when done on level and challanging or at least not a cake walk.
People MANY People want the XP toggle to enjoy the content the trip not the destination.

There is No way to never have content to Not be able to level.
Skirms, Instances, Raids etc all offer good XP there are more then enough to gain enough
XP in an area to reach the next needed level for the next area.

Often We must chose to not do the instances the skirms simply because they help force us over level.
Then you have Rest XP adding to that for VIPS....Yes VIPS are being punished for Paying to support the game.


LOL as for the oter part about tickets for I forgot to Turn XP back on.
Turbine needs to have a simple warning WE DO NOT FIX XP OFF ISSUES.
All tickets get closed automaticlly as it is a choice to use.
Anyone that choses to use it are not the type to whine that we forgot to turn it back on
as it just makes the next area more on level more of a challange.

Further it IS WELL PAST TIME to stop Pandering to the lowest common denominator and dumbing down the Game.
People need to take responsibility for thier choices and actions.

Let US have the Choice to Enjoy the Game on level and in OUR WAY.
NO ONE should be forced to play your way My Way or anyone elses way.
We Just want more choices.

If LotRO was all about end game raiding, I could understand the ez-mode levelling. For some people, maybe it is, but I suggest they're in the wrong game. I play another game for the hardcore raiding experience and come to this one because I love the landscape questing environment. For players like me, and there must be more than a few of us, the game would be much improved if we had the option to maintain an appropriate level of challenge throughout all the available content.

I've always thought an xp stopper was a stupid idea but with so many ppl clamoring for it I'm surprised it's not in game yet.

Side Note: As a programmer I'm always annoyed when non programmers try to tell me something's easy. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but you don't have access to their code base. You don't know if it is or isn't difficult.

Originally Posted by Toranoga

Anyway, as to the XP stopper; what happens when you forget to turn it off? (or XP back on, which ever way you look at it)

Besides having always skirmishes ready from lvl 20 onwards, do you really think that people would do all the available quests including red ones until they are out of quests for a certain level?
Do you really think that would cause tickets?
Clearly if you do a quest that is 4-5 levels above yours you well know what you are doing when you do not get XP for it. And doing all of these that are available is actually quite a lot of content.

I would like to see that option even if I probably will not use it a lot. But is a bit annoying when you cannot do just the simple quest deeds for every SoA region without outleveling your char quite a bit for Moria.

Originally Posted by Emachine

As a programmer I'm always annoyed when non programmers try to tell me something's easy. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but you don't have access to their code base. You don't know if it is or isn't difficult.

Amen.

12345

What is the difference between turning off exp and not gaining exp because you've outleveled the mobs?

Is this the whole 'for the challenge of doing quests on level' thing? Otherwise, I don't get the point.

There isn't a single solo quest in this game that is challenging on level. Red quests and organge quests maybe at times. Why not just do them overleveled just by a little? Or stick with light blue quests? It takes forever to level with light blue quests. Why should they make a feature that's already built into the game? Quest goes gray, exp turns off. There's your answer.

I do quests I've outleveled all the time. I like the stories and reading the text. And as a bonus I've been at the same level for 4 months now!

If you need an exp off button to not outlevel quests then something is seriously wrong. All you have to do is stick with light blue to gray.

Now, if you want to hold at level 10 let's say and have everything from 12 up be orange and red, and complete everything at that difficulty, you're wasting your time. It's not much more challenging than doing those quests at level 12 or even 14.

Am I missing something here? Is there a level band that has specific things that need to be done on level for some reason?

Originally Posted by hex2323

What is the difference between turning off exp and not gaining exp because you've outleveled the mobs?

Am I missing something here?

Yes Clearly You are.

Try reading the Thread and all the associated simillar threads.

There are many reasons for the Request and many playstyles that support it.
Why would you be against options Choices for others especially when that option has no affect on you?
Are you Saying your playstyle is the only acceptable one.....
That everyone must Play your way....
That we are not allowed Options because you do not Understand?


Hmmmm Makes me wonder.

In response to the couple of posters expressing their doubt as to the benefit of this, or even downright discarding the use of such an implementation, i would like to remind them that as it will -not- affect them, in any way, under any circumstances, i honestly fail to see why they would post merely so to vote the idea down..i seriously fail to understand how one person's extra tidbit of freedom must be denied or refused by another even when it is, ultimately, irrelevant to them..curse of our species, i am aware, but.. really..

If you fail to see the attraction of such a feature, if you are uninterested about it or even downright opposed to it (for your -own- use), do keep in mind its becoming live will -not- affect you. At all. So you have no need to discourage its implementation..this is about players that wish it. Simply let it be

Originally Posted by Amannas

In response to the couple of posters expressing their doubt as to the benefit of this, or even downright discarding the use of such an implementation, i would like to remind them that as it will -not- affect them, in any way, under any circumstances, i honestly fail to see why they would post merely so to vote the idea down..i seriously fail to understand how one person's extra tidbit of freedom must be denied or refused by another even when it is, ultimately, irrelevant to them..curse of our species, i am aware, but.. really..

If you fail to see the attraction of such a feature, if you are uninterested about it or even downright opposed to it (for your -own- use), do keep in mind its becoming live will -not- affect you. At all. So you have no need to discourage its implementation..this is about players that wish it. Simply let it be

Let me start by saying, I'd like that feature. Wouldn't use it much personally, but there have been a handful of times I wished I leveled a bit slower. (Moria, in my case. Went from L50-L59 way too fast, ready to leave, but whole zones there practically untouched)

But as far as why others might naysay it, don't forget, a lot of people see developers as a bottle-neck, and anything they work on for you is one less to work on a housing revamp, or another 3 man instance, etc.

Not saying I agree, just that that argument has been thrown at me before.

Originally Posted by Stadic

But as far as why others ight naysay it, don't forget, a lot of people see developers as a bottle-neck, and anything they work on for you is one less to work on a housing revamp, or another 3 man instance, etc.

Not saying I agree, just that that argument has been thrown at me before.

Your right that is one argument against it It is a bad one and false.

More options bring more people into the game keep them interested longer playing and paying longer.

I want the XP disable Toggle I am VIP... I currently get rest XP forced on me with no way to shut it off.
Wait there is away I drop VIP I am no longer a paying Player less income for Turbine less development money and resources.

If enough VIPs that want the XP Toggle drop VIP to shut off Rest XP since that is the only option
How long till Turbine can not create new content new shinnies for the Game?

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

In areas with multiple leveling paths, running one zone will make you outlevel the others. I.E, running quests through the Shire on-level means you outlevel Ered Luin and much of Bree-land, running Mirkwood on-level means you outlevel Enedwaith, etc.

It's worse than that - I regularly out-leveled quests in the zone I was still working on. I now try to finish the gray and light-blue quests first, but even doing only those, I never seem to run out - I still level up occasionally and bam, I have new light-blue quests.

(Okay, I admit it. I can't always resist the temptation of doing a white or, gasp, even a yellow quest! Sometimes I just want something to sink my teeth into! Must I really be punished with all that XP, though?)

I've taken to describing myself as 'on an XP diet'. "No, sorry, I can't join that level <mine+2> instance; it would give me too much XP."

Originally Posted by hex2323

What is the difference between turning off exp and not gaining exp because you've outleveled the mobs?

<snip>

Now, if you want to hold at level 10 let's say and have everything from 12 up be orange and red, and complete everything at that difficulty, you're wasting your time. It's not much more challenging than doing those quests at level 12 or even 14.

Am I missing something here? Is there a level band that has specific things that need to be done on level for some reason?

For some classes, it might not matter so much, but there's several classes (Minstrel, Warden and Burglar, for instance) whose more interesting skills only become active after using (and possibly critting on) one or more of their basic skills. Wardens, for instance, need to build gambits. Usually, by the time I've gotten two gambit builders in, there's just a sliver of morale left on the mob, and my auto-attack will kill it before I can fire off the gambit.

Originally Posted by Stadic

But as far as why others might naysay it, don't forget, a lot of people see developers as a bottle-neck, and anything they work on for you is one less to work on a housing revamp, or another 3 man instance, etc.

Not saying I agree, just that that argument has been thrown at me before.

For me, it's more a matter of adding a lot of potential issues for little gain. (or lack there of ) An example would be a Bug creeping in during a content release that prevents everyone from gaining XP. Just look to recent sound issues for how easily this could happen.

Originally Posted by Toranoga

For me, it's more a matter of adding a lot of potential issues for little gain. (or lack there of ) An example would be a Bug creeping in during a content release that prevents everyone from gaining XP. Just look to recent sound issues for how easily this could happen.

Hmmm Bugs creep in no matter what....

DID a sound Toggle get added that caused this Bug?

Was there a recent change to the way sounds are add3ed played used that caused this bug?

There is no Linear explination for the sound bug so you certianly can not say adding an XP toggle
would result in a no XP gain for anyone bug Thats just a leap and a streatch and just
another way for those that do not get it to argue against something that does not affect them
due to thier lack of understanding it.

Originally Posted by NickStern

Yes Clearly You are.

Try reading the Thread and all the associated simillar threads.

There are many reasons for the Request and many playstyles that support it.
Why would you be against options Choices for others especially when that option has no affect on you?
Are you Saying your playstyle is the only acceptable one.....
That everyone must Play your way....
That we are not allowed Options because you do not Understand?


Hmmmm Makes me wonder.

Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Right? Thanks for the wonderful summary.

Originally Posted by Amannas

In response to the couple of posters expressing their doubt as to the benefit of this, or even downright discarding the use of such an implementation, i would like to remind them that as it will -not- affect them, in any way, under any circumstances, i honestly fail to see why they would post merely so to vote the idea down..i seriously fail to understand how one person's extra tidbit of freedom must be denied or refused by another even when it is, ultimately, irrelevant to them..curse of our species, i am aware, but.. really..

If you fail to see the attraction of such a feature, if you are uninterested about it or even downright opposed to it (for your -own- use), do keep in mind its becoming live will -not- affect you. At all. So you have no need to discourage its implementation..this is about players that wish it. Simply let it be

It could certainly affect me. Not only does it take away at least some portion of developer resources, and could introduce bugs, but it has the potential to be exploited. A few things come to mind immediately.

It's not that I want to dictate your play style. I just don't want Turbine to begin implementing exp work arounds just to fit your play style.

As far as the whole 'firing off skills requires tougher enemies for some classes'. Fine. Go fight some tougher enemies. Or do you want to sit at level 21 and farm out your class deeds on easy prey while gaining every bit of useful gear before moving on to level 22? Sorry. It doesn't work that way. Plan your build ahead, know your quests and do them in a preplanned order. Having an off button to hover at level x is not the way the game was designed. Totally alters the balance.

Next we'll have people squatting 'sweet spots' for marks, medallions and seals, burning class deeds, skirmish kill deeds, etc in easy mode. It's like giving full mark rewards for running below level content (by the time you farm the gear and would normally have to move on to higher and higher difficulties).

Maybe you're just interested in completing every quest on level and don't care about rewards, and just want an even challenge for every single quest through every level band. Well, unfortunately, a toggle off exp mode would not be a fair way to go because others would and will exploit it.

So, I don't want it.

Like I said, I spend about 4 months on every level after 55 and have no problems completing what I want to on level and that's a LOT of content. It's fine the way it is and if you really don't think so, maybe we can get together and I can show you how I manage to do it. Ask anyone in game who knows me or those who used to pick on my Burg's sig because the level never changed.

In short, my play style IS like your play style. I don't want you to play any different. You don't have to!

Leveling is not hard. Not leveling is easy too, even completing on level quests... even at high levels.

Originally Posted by hex2323

It's not that I want to dictate your play style. I just don't want Turbine to begin implementing exp work arounds just to fit your play style.

Oh But it was ok when they did it to FIT your Playstyle.....
When all the QQing end gamers wanted faster XP curve they got it....
When They wanted XP accelerators they got them.....
Double XP weekends.....
ETC....

No we Just want our small share of Developer time and resources that we
also Pay for through TP Point Purchases and VIP Payments.

We are as deserving of getting one Item to support our Playstyle as all the Engamers we deserve to have
some resources spent on us for a change instead of multiple ways to fast level to engame.

This is not intended to be a rant, but a commentary on the nature of tiered content and what it does to a game community.

All MMO's fall into the end-game trap eventually. The content stream has produced an established player base that consists mainly of two groups: the end-game players who have reached the maximum level and the new players joining who will mostly race to that level as quickly as they can.

The developers have put years of effort, before the game and after launch, into creating content designed to appeal to the maximum number of players. Almost all content available at launch is designed to appeal to low and mid-level players. That's where the vast majority of the player base will be for the first several months of the game. There are a huge number of quests available for the low and mid-level player and to keep the game from turning into a hopeless egg chase there are a few instances also available. At launch the system works well because the egg chase is the buy-in to the game system and the instances are there with many people to run them on-level when the egg chase has just about driven you crazy.

Ok, so now we get six months into the game and the complaints begin to come from the people who are now clustered at the high-end of the existing spectrum, having been pushed there by the egg chase. They've run through all the content available and have pushed up against the blank wall at the high end. The egg chase has stopped, not because they don't want to chase eggs any more but because the eggs have run out.

In many cases the way the content has been tiered there are fewer mid level zones than low level zones because the developers expect players to cluster at the low end and then stream through the mid-level zones in a steady progression. So the crowding at the mid-levels is often just as intense as the low level crowding only player desperation makes it seem worse, since there's nowhere to progress too.

So the developers begin to release higher tiered zones, often to great initial complaint due to the crowding in those zones as well and the inevitable bugs in new content released under pressure. The more work they put into the higher level content the slower the pace of release since more work takes more time. Developer efforts now center on pleasing the people at the top end of the spectrum in terms of playing time. We've left the phase in which meaningful low and mid-level improvements will be made and the developers are now on their own egg chase, trying to keep existing subscribers from leaving and relying on the content in place to draw in new players and get them well on the path.

The problem is that the low level players entering the game are now doing so in very different circumstances than the players at launch. There aren't enough players to reliably run the instances at low level although the situation is not yet a ghost town. The players at the high level end of the spectrum are going to keep chasing eggs for quite awhile yet, pushing the devs harder and harder in the process.

Eventually the game gets to a point where the developers are working on a major expansion for release later in the year and content tweaking for existing content largely stops for awhile. This is the point at which players at the high end of the spectrum are at a dead halt. We'll call it the Moria Morass as it relates to LOTRO.

For awhile this causes a lot of alt-creation as players level up 2nd, 3rd and even 4th toons. Re-running the content the developers created for low and mid level players. This is an opportunity for new players to actually play the content at the low levels as it was meant to be played with a reasonable population of players to run the low and mid-level instances. There is a veteran player vs new player problem that is inherent in this situation but it tends not to be all that big a deal. If you joined LOTRO when the vets were all screaming about being stuck in a giant hole in the ground you probably got to run GB, GA, etc about as much as you wanted too.

Then the content expands again and the level cap goes up and it's like a great pressure release has sucked all the veteran players out of the low and mid-level zones again. New players once again find themselves in a situation in which they don't really get to do anything more than chase eggs. The instanced low and mid-level content grows old and stale and abandoned. It becomes a frustrating thing for new players who spend hours sitting in Bree looking for a group and not finding one.

Some truly wonderful mid-level content, like The Rift, almost disappears from the landscape. When people do get to run it they wind up in groups full of top-level players who blow through the content at a lightning pace. The Rift is for all intents and purposes a graveyard of the imagination, fondly remembered by vets, who will never get to run it that way again, and a hopeless place for new players who don't even know why it was great in the first place.

Now eventually some of the content will be revived by the developers. They'll make it scalable so that top level players can run it. They'll usually forget to revise the loot table, making it hard to get people to run it more than a couple of few times, but they'll do something to rehabilitate it.

This is the reality of tiered content where a game rolls out content designed for specific level tiers with very little utility to players outside those tiers.

Now there is a solution to a lot of the problems in this type of system particularly as a game ages and more and more content becomes unavailable in a meaningful way to the average player. If you let people cap the levels on their toons they can begin the process of pegging content down for practical use.

If I could cap a toon at 60 and gear it up really well I could use all that mid-game content in perpetuity. I could convince my friends to take a toon and do the same. Voila! Meaningful Rift raids with appropriate challenge. All those instances in Moria become worth something again. Scalable instances that the developers create are still of value.

It's such an easy proposition. It just involves doing something that a substantial portion of the customer base wants and it allows them to make your content fresh again. It makes the game much, much better for new players that you want to keep subscribing. It's a huge win-win.

Alternately you could design content to be valuable to all level ranges, however that's about 100x the work of just letting people cap themselves at the level they want to play at.

Originally Posted by Bowman99

If I could cap a toon at 60 and gear it up really well I could use all that mid-game content in perpetuity. I could convince my friends to take a toon and do the same. Voila! Meaningful Rift raids with appropriate challenge. All those instances in Moria become worth something again. Scalable instances that the developers create are still of value.

It's such an easy proposition. It just involves doing something that a substantial portion of the customer base wants and it allows them to make your content fresh again. It makes the game much, much better for new players that you want to keep subscribing. It's a huge win-win.

Great analysis and well thought out
Thank you For explaining many reasons for the XP Disabler far better then I could.

+ Rep

/signed

I would love just to be able to get through Breeland before the quests turn gray. Completionist OCD hits me hard but it is almost sad to really have no challenge whatsoever, and if you hit up the Lonelands the North Downs becomes completely obsolete. And as I am a slow leveller, I have yet to experience the going through Moria and quests turning gray on me. I don't see a problem with a toggle, or at least a relative bar that you can slow it down. If it destroys game balance in some way, sure, don't completely nullify the xp. But at least cut it down a percentage if people so desire.

Opt-in XP gain disabler? Why not.

And thank you OP. This below is one of the most entertaining bits of conceit and fallacious presumption I have ever read.

Originally Posted by Amannas

I am one of those people that helped the genre become what it is now, by supporting it at a time when most of your current playerbase was too young (if not non-existent) to be able to afford an internet connection, or afford the equivalent PC needed to run an MMO. I am one of the people that was an active subscriber, in numerous MMOs, at a time when it was not merely a niche, but a 'hobby' one kept silent/ashamed about. A generation thanks to which this genre thrived and was allowed to become what it is today. A generation now being steadily kicked out..Lotro included..

Originally Posted by hallasan

Opt-in XP gain disabler? Why not.

And thank you OP. This below is one of the most entertaining bits of conceit and fallacious presumption I have ever read.

Well come on now he really meant well yes it was a bit of hyperbole......

Much like when Al Gore invented the internet