Looking for input on which of the two delivers more DPS, strictly in a raid/fellowship setting where the whole "range distance" for Assailment is not problematic. Parses and pictures are more than welcome.
Looking for input on which of the two delivers more DPS, strictly in a raid/fellowship setting where the whole "range distance" for Assailment is not problematic. Parses and pictures are more than welcome.
If you can setup and sustain a rotation without interuption, I have to say Recklessness parses higher no doubt.
There is far more capability with melee through DoT's in particular. It's not easy to maintain a high DPS number, especially if you have to swap targets or stop attacking for any reason.
That's my experience anyway, I have yet to try a full fledged assailment damage parse.
If you can setup and sustain a rotation without interuption, I have to say Recklessness parses higher no doubt.
There is far more capability with melee through DoT's in particular. It's not easy to maintain a high DPS number, especially if you have to swap targets or stop attacking for any reason.
That's my experience anyway, I have yet to try a full fledged assailment damage parse.
Hmm Ranged CS and BR also seem to have a pretty strong bleed component in assailement. Though i think some of the animations are pretty long(and harder to built using masteries), atleast that was my initial impression. Doing a short list about what you loose going ranged(and presumbly fist instead of spear line), ignoring things that have a equivalent in the other line:
1. -20% attack duration.
2. 2x5% melee damage from GMWT and red capstone(i don't think 10% javelin skill damage is equivalent, doesn't sound like it affects gambits).
3. 10% critical multiplier
4. 1.5% damage from builders.
Not sure how one would go about making up that difference, did i miss something?
The lack of attack duration really destroys the dps potential of assailment. Not to mention, ranged offensive strike is bugged and not applying low bleed as it should.
The lack of attack duration really destroys the dps potential of assailment. Not to mention, ranged offensive strike is bugged and not applying low bleed as it should.
It's still pretty fun to use in the moors though.
Well-said. In Assail. I can stack 3 bleeds from range (including javelin throw). In Reck. I can easily stack 7, even a few more if I'm in the mood. I'm luvin it.
Plus if you're grouped, with Recklessness you can give your fellows (and you) a very hefty phys. offence buff via Conviction.
Assail. is great for moorsing... just give me a low bleed and I'll be happy.
Well considering reck is the pure DPS stance, and assail is the ranged DPS+group support stance, it shouldnt be a surprise if reck is superior. That being said, your group DPS may be better with you in Assail, depending on how many people are benefitting from your group buffs and how much Conviction is helping keep your tank's job easier.
Also, I think masteries better serve the skills featured in Reck, while all Assail's skills tend to use the same few masteries, making it harder to craft an elegant rotation.
Plus, yes, 20% attack speed is an extra 16.67% DPS, hardly negligible.
And in Reck, you can stick your spear inherent bleed, on top of everything else, if you use a spear - and that bleed benefits from all the traits that affect DOTs, too.
Well considering reck is the pure DPS stance, and assail is the ranged DPS+group support stance, it shouldnt be a surprise if reck is superior. That being said, your group DPS may be better with you in Assail, depending on how many people are benefitting from your group buffs and how much Conviction is helping keep your tank's job easier.
Also, I think masteries better serve the skills featured in Reck, while all Assail's skills tend to use the same few masteries, making it harder to craft an elegant rotation.
Plus, yes, 20% attack speed is an extra 16.67% DPS, hardly negligible.
And in Reck, you can stick your spear inherent bleed, on top of everything else, if you use a spear - and that bleed benefits from all the traits that affect DOTs, too.
You still have the option of supporting your group with conviction PM buff in reckless
If your raid won't benefit more from you just popping assailment conviction every ten seconds and stacking your group with the highest damage dealers in your raid, then you have bad or undergeared DPSers with you. No amount of damage we can do in any stance outweighs the benefit of your entire group's damage dealers not having to hold back one bit due to aggro.
If your raid won't benefit more from you just popping assailment conviction every ten seconds and stacking your group with the highest damage dealers in your raid, then you have bad or undergeared DPSers with you. No amount of damage we can do in any stance outweighs the benefit of your entire group's damage dealers not having to hold back one bit due to aggro.
This isn't true at all.
For example, Acid T2 challenge burgzerg. The run i was in, the dps classes were going all out and some of the dps classes parsed around 3k dps. There was no warden in the group but the guardian had no problem holding aggro at all.
For example, Acid T2 challenge burgzerg. The run i was in, the dps classes were going all out and some of the dps classes parsed around 3k dps. There was no warden in the group but the guardian had no problem holding aggro at all.
Acid T2 is a terrible example as the tank builds aggro on the boss while DPSers hit other targets. Try 3k dps on lightning T2 and we'll talk.
Acid T2 is a terrible example as the tank builds aggro on the boss while DPSers hit other targets. Try 3k dps on lightning T2 and we'll talk.
Do you know what burgzerging Iorweth is..?
The whole purpose of burg zerging Iorweth is to kill him before the Acid rises. Even when the adds come, all of the dps is on the boss. The adds don't come until 40 seconds in the fight. Until then, there are no other targets.
The whole purpose of burg zerging Iorweth is to kill him before the Acid rises. Even when the adds come, all of the dps is on the boss. The adds don't come until 40 seconds in the fight. Until then, there are no other targets.
Sorry I missed the burgzerging part. Well, you are among the 1% of the player base that has done this kind of thing. I don't think most tanks of any class can hold against DPSers pulling 3k dps parses.
Sorry I missed the burgzerging part. Well, you are among the 1% of the player base that has done this kind of thing. I don't think most tanks of any class can hold against DPSers pulling 3k dps parses.
Most DPS of any class aren't parsing 3k DPS.
What's your point?
The joys of stance dancing allow you to pop that assailment conviction off (and in battle memory) for an initial 20 seconds, and still go back into recklessness for DPS.
This is largely academic. If your DPS is held back by your tanks ability to produce aggro you need to switch out the tank or tell your group to actually use their threat tools, not get a assailment warden that would only help with the ranged DPS dealers anyway.
This might sound harsh, but looking at the stats and gambits(masteries) needed to run DPS in assailment the damage should be QUITE a bit below recklessness, certainly at the point where you just aswell may bring a red specced burg, captain, LM or minstrel. And yeah, those are real popular.
The thing is a gimmick like assailment conviction -threat is not enough to justify a spot. If you have a warden tank it might even be detrimental unless noone hit by the debuff is in your group(threat leeches).
This is largely academic. If your DPS is held back by your tanks ability to produce aggro you need to switch out the tank or tell your group to actually use their threat tools, not get a assailment warden that would only help with the ranged DPS dealers anyway.
This might sound harsh, but looking at the stats and gambits(masteries) needed to run DPS in assailment the damage should be QUITE a bit below recklessness, certainly at the point where you just aswell may bring a red specced burg, captain, LM or minstrel. And yeah, those are real popular.
The thing is a gimmick like assailment conviction -threat is not enough to justify a spot. If you have a warden tank it might even be detrimental unless noone hit by the debuff is in your group(threat leeches).
I'm in the process of creating a warden glasscannon build to try and do DPS in a raid situation. I still see it as being inferior to other DPS classes, just because our damage is all going to be dot based, and requires specific rotations which cannot be interrupted for constant DPS parses.
I'm in the process of creating a warden glasscannon build to try and do DPS in a raid situation. I still see it as being inferior to other DPS classes, just because our damage is all going to be dot based, and requires specific rotations which cannot be interrupted for constant DPS parses.
FWIW, I go with a glass cannon build for Draigoch and typically have paw aggro pretty much constantly, including raids where burgs and champs were joking beforehand about fighting each other for paw aggro (neither got it).
It's not lazy DPSers either, most of these runs take about 20 minutes - no holding back on the body, FMs don't finish until well into phase 3, etc.
That could mean there's still some threat attached to our DPS, or it could mean I just have a more consistent rotation, or any other number of things. But at least in SOME situations it is possible to output the most DPS in a group.
Onslaught, Dark Before, Triumphs, Javelin Skills, and repeat
Why not do Warden's Triumph first? Does it not apply the damage bonus while in Assailment? When I am doing a DPS rotation in melee (even in Determination) I'll always start with a masteried Warden's Triumph for the damage bonus.
Why not do Warden's Triumph first? Does it not apply the damage bonus while in Assailment? When I am doing a DPS rotation in melee (even in Determination) I'll always start with a masteried Warden's Triumph for the damage bonus.
99% of the time yes, open with your buffs
The only reason not to use WT first would be if you're trying to maximize your rotation interchangeability. For example, in Det I use the following rotations:
21 Persevere
1.2.31 MB
1.32.13 WT
JT
22 BM
1.23.12 US
BM US
You'll notice the masteries all fall in almost the same order. I have a healing/defensive buff rotation that follows a similar pattern, too. That means I can switch between the various rotations as needed, toss in a few JTs or BM activations to fill the gaps, and keep more fluidity in combat, even if I'm losing some bonus by moving the WTs to the middle of the order.
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