Thread: New Lore-master Pet ideas - Rideable Oliphants & Tree powers/pets

In one of my previous threads, I brought up some various suggestions on possible new pets for lore-masters in the Rohan Expansion. I eventually suggested the idea of a rideable oliphant (wild elephant) for LMs that would solve the problem of how LMs could cast powers while in mounted combat. I felt it deserved it's own consideration separate from my original thread. I also wished to outline another suggestion I made for a "Trees Of Valinor" or "White Tree" pet or power concept.

(I hope you like it )
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As for Oliphants :

Off the battlefield, the oliphant pet could be "baby" sized (and non-rideable - approx. 4-6 ft tall in game) and operate much like other LM pets, but with the ability to be trained to be more of a tank, melee, or buff oriented pet depending on what choices are applied to match the player's style. AoE powers may include things like a "iron hide" team defensive buff, "trumpeting challenge"(fear debuff), and a trunk sweep/stomp melee damage.

On the battlefield, the LM could "enchant" and combine their (battle) horse mount and "baby" oliphant pet to become a rideable oliphant "pet" mount for the LMs. On it's back (with great player visibility in battle), there would be space enough to stand, thus giving the lore-master the "ground" for casting their powers, while potentially reducing battlefield lag since it would be reducing the number of player controlled pets on the battlefield. (Otherwise, a LM would be almost useless on horseback in battle and could require a major overhaul of how LM powers work in general to function properly.)

The (enchanted) oliphant "pet" would have to have all the same kinds of powers that the horse would have had combined with the powers the pet would have had, and also still grant mount experience to the LM (and their mount) as if they were riding just the horse. I'd suggest smaller "juvenile" sized wild oliphant to help differentiate them in the future from the potential Easterling (larger) mounts on the battlefield (in Gondor).

Oliphants are relatively lore-friendly in that they both existed and were known throughout all of Middle Earth (even as far as the Shire). Oliphants were like horses in that even though they were associated with the Easterlings (and Mordor), they themselves were neither good nor evil.

(You might ask ,"How will my enemies feel to my oliphant pet?" The answer is, "Flat and squishy." hehehe )


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As for the Two Trees of Valinor / White Tree pet or power concepts:


A Pet Tree: (LMs guide to "Going Green" with tree pets)

Another potential pet option in Rohan could be a Huron-style "Trees of Valinor" pet (with glowing fruits) that grants bonus Light damage. They could walk to be able to aid in battle, with good visibility, AoE attacks (roots and branches), and team AOE Light damage buffs. For the "White Tree" pet, the buffs might be will and strength instead of light ( since they don't glow).

The original Two Trees are mentioned in the original storyline, and the general concept is lore-friendly. The Huron (trees) also fought the orcs in Rohan near the battle of Helm's Deep (in Fangorn Forrest). Fruits of the White Trees were also widespread but rare by this time in history, but it still could be depicted as either a tree or spirit of a white tree to cover this.

The possible problems with the trees as pets may include battlefield lag and visual obstruction issues due to size and graphics if made too big or if in large enough numbers. Though they are not technically a "beast", LMs do already have a power that uses an ent, so a tree pet is not a great stretch concept-wise.

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Tree Power (the truly Green solution for your power needs) :

The Two Trees of Valinor could be a new power for LMs that has a "plantable" AoE buff "tree"(a small full tree with either gold or silver glowing fruits about 5-6 feet tall ) that places much like how the rune keeper's healing stone works, only it would give a choice of 2 types of AoE buffs ( one for each of the two trees) that the player could choose to use. They could include greater light damage buffs (for the Gold fruits- "Laurelin"), and something like stealth/evade buffs (for the Silver fruits - "Telperion"). It could also be done as a "White Tree Spirit" ( or "Spirit of The White Trees" ) as either a pet or power (as described above), since they are related, with a different graphic and different buffs including will and strength.

(Lore background: The Two Trees of Valinor were Telperion and Laurelin, the Silver Tree and the Gold, whose fruits were made into the sun and moon to light the world. Their later descendants eventually included the White Tree(s) of Gondor.)


I look forward to your suggestions and constructive feedback!

If this were actually implemented, I would seriously consider purchasing another character slot to roll a LM.

PS: good job, your ideas are very well thought out! XD

I really like all your ideas and hate to quibble about them, but I suspect they just won't fly.

While my LM would love to ride an Oliphaunt, I'm not sure it's really practical. They were known to exist, even in the Shire, but they were sufficiently uncommon that some people thought they were just myths. How would every LM in the game manage to find and tame one?

Even a baby Oliphaunt sounds dauntingly large. Have you ever tried to use an NPC or a crafting bench which an LM's bear is standing on? My LM dismisses her bear when she goes into a town--it gets in her way too. But a lot of LMs don't and likely wouldn't while the Oliphaunt is a new, and reasonably rare pet. "Look what I have! Innit cool?"

Finally, we don't yet know what mounted combat is going to be like. My guess is that it will be more like what Blizzard did with mounted combat in WoW--you mount something and it presents you with a new skill bar specifically designed to be used in that context. Much the same way we get a new skill bar in a Session Play instance.

Many skills for most classes wouldn't work well from horseback, so even if we do get our own skills, it seems fairly likely that a lot of them will be greyed out, or heavily modified, when we're mounted. (I suspect the quest in the Heathfells where you run around and collect the nets that mounted Rohirrim are throwing was a preview of the sorts of things we'll be able to do in mounted combat.)

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I also love the idea of having Huorn pets, but I suspect the lore's against this one too. Yes, the Huorn did attack at Helm's Deep and Isengard, but under the direction of the Ents, the Tree Shepherds. So far as the lore says, it was only the Ents who were ever able to direct and manage the Huorn, and even they couldn't handle some of the ones who'd gone feral.

The Trees of Valinor is also a beautiful idea, but it feels a bit sacrilegious. Even the Valar weren't capable of recreating the Two Trees after Morgoth and Ungoliant destroyed them, but every scruffy LM in Arda can create working replicas?

I'm glad you enjoyed the concepts.

I was leaning more toward the idea of summoning a sapling-sized "spirit" or "descendants" (like the white trees) and not the actual physical original Two Trees, however. I'm sorry I was not as clear on that part. I am also aware that none of their descendants "glowed", but the "spirit of the Trees" concept could.

I understand that the Ents could talk to Huron, but they were not the only ones. Tom Bombadil, for example, also could talk to and sometimes control hurons (like Old Man Willow). I also recall in the book that it was said of Saruman that he often walked among the trees (around Isengard) and spoke with them (talking trees) before his fall into darkness. So, it's not unheard of for races other then ents to speak with "talking" trees. (It's just rare)

I should point out that I was not actually asking for a true huron as a pet as much as using the generalized reference point of the existing character model to describe how the "Trees" pet or power could work and function to inspire people. The Two Trees and their descendants are also a separate line, anyhow, that is independent of the huron and ents.

As far as oliphants go, any mounted battle usually leaves a few "orphaned" animals, who in reality would go feral and breed. But, another approach could be that we could apply the concept of the "spirit" summoning to the oliphant idea, where the LM actually is summoning the spirit of an animal defeated in battle to aid them. I see LMs toting all sorts of "spirit" pets these days, so why not a oliphant or tree?

The problem is, that those pets would walk around in Bree, the Shire etc. I don't think, that would be very realistic... You cannot restrict high-lvel chars to come back to the starting zones. the more "exotic" you make things, the more you will push away the gameworld from the original ideas Tolkien had.

Also, why would a "spirit of a tree" be degraded to be a pet of a mortal? Not only is it described nowhere in the books, it's also very unlikely, that a "common" lore-master could ever summon one.

Oh, and oliphants would also be restricted to certain zones in the game, as they are known only as mythical creatures in most of middle-earth. Not mentioning the fact, that a baby-elephant would be very unlikely to function as a fighting pet, 'cause, well, it's...a baby.

I Do not think the Tree idea would be a good idea. Because they understood language of Ents and Tom Bombadil. They would be equal to Elf, Human, Hobbit, Dwarf trolls goblins and so on. Where a animal what a LM uses Bear, Hawk, Sabertooth cat, Lynx, Eagle, Bog-lurker and Spirit Friend.

Note Eagle not related to Great Eagles that saved gandalf

Why is "spirit friend" (which includes human spirits, which is totally a lore breaker on all accounts since only the King of Gondor could command them, and yet they are included) any different then a LM having a "spirit of a white tree sapling"? I've never seen anything that suggested that the White Tree of Gondor (or any other of the white trees) could ever "talk", but their fruits still held some properties (non-light related). If your argument is that they might have somehow been sentient, then how do you explain the LMs with ent powers or half of the other things about them anyhow?

I was hoping get creative minds to come out and brainstorm not just have people rain on my parade ( lol).

I'm just as much of a lover of the (lotr) lore as anyone (In fact, I love it so much that I even helped write a book on the subject), but you must concede that the game is already far from "home" on that one. It's "based" on the books, not the books themselves. I also have to admit that some of the concepts and twists that they have added to distinguish themselves (that were never in the book or intended as any part of the original story on any level) still turned out to be great fun and well done. That's what any game is all about; having fun.

If you really don't think my ideas will work because you personally don't feel it will fit in the lore of the game as it exists, then, please, suggest something else by all means. I'd love to hear your ideas. All I ask is that you not suggest ridiculous things like farm animals. (lol)

on a non-lore note, i feel that these pets will be waaay overpowered if put ingame... Escpecially the oliphant lol...

Footnote: Hurons are a group of North American Native people. The semi-sentient trees in LOTR are Huorns.

I concede that others were able to talk to and somewhat control the Huorns, but Tom Bombadil was not your average character. There's a good deal of controversy over exactly what or who he was and perhaps Tolkien himself never decided for sure, but he was certainly very old and very powerful in his own way.

Saruman before his fall was one of the Istari like Gandalf. A sort of demi-god or semi-angelic spirit sent by the Valar to aid against Sauron. Again, not exactly on a par with our player charaters.

Salamanders. It's a common monster type appearing in several zones. It could be an alternative DPS-based pet that does Fire damage as opposed to the Sabrecat's frost damage.

Oliphants were found in the far south, along with Apes. Apart from this, they were in the service of Haradrim (or was it Easterlings) so even if we could run down the great south road by Mordor, the chances of buying an Oliphant in exchange for a Bear (kidding here, just a little traditional Middle East market Stereotype) are very slim indeed.
I like the idea, but it will never happen

Originally Posted by hillard1959

Salamanders. It's a common monster type appearing in several zones. It could be an alternative DPS-based pet that does Fire damage as opposed to the Sabrecat's frost damage.

But unless I'm very much mistaken, salamanders belong to what Yula calls Team Sauron.

Originally Posted by djheydt

But unless I'm very much mistaken, salamanders belong to what Yula calls Team Sauron.

So do Bog Lurkers. :S (I swear, my first instinct every time I see an LM's Bog-lurker out is to KILL IT WITH FIRE.)

Honestly, though, Salamanders are just one more mob type. I don't think they're any more minions of Sauron than the Sabrecat is.

Edit: There's always the chance that I'm wrong, though. I haven't exactly kept up with the Lore concerning Salamanders.

Or simpli make pets usable... give em minimum 5 skills with low cd so not 5 min and so.

and an aurochs pet for tanking... or just make bear to be viable

Originally Posted by Leri927

Or simpli make pets usable... give em minimum 5 skills with low cd so not 5 min and so.

and an aurochs pet for tanking... or just make bear to be viable

I'm all for that, and I love your suggestion. =)

I would like to point out to all the critics that shot down my ideas based on presumed size that an aurochs is actually bigger then my proposed "baby" pet oliphant ( which would only be a rideable size on the battlefield in Rohan - NOT in Bree or other zones), I still think this would be workable, however. The main thing would be finding a way to make them visually interesting and fun to play. A lot of my suggested power concepts could be translated to an aurochs in a believable way (well, accept for "rideable" part and the trunk swipe, of course). I still would like to see something more spectacular for a lvl 75 pet that would draw a crowd to want to come play the game, but of the all the other suggestions offered, I find this one an interesting compromise.