I keep seeing topics in the forums asking for a new class. I propose the Burglar be available to race of Dwarf for the Rohan Expansion. This would take less time for Turbine to implement, after all.
Dwarves are indeed capable of being Burglars. Look in Tolkiens writing and in mysterious stories in LOTRO for evidence of stealthiness in some Dwarves. LOTRO also already allowed Dwarf Hunter (which have a cammo skill at level 40, like any other hunter). Some dwarves are indeed capable of sneaking around. Bingo, they already have stealth!
Dwarf Burglars look awesome! Rather than hearing hiya! yay! like a ninja, we could also enjoy BAAHHH! HOOAA!
To be honest there's just something about Dwarves being Burglars that appeals to me more than Man or Hobbit.
Hmm... Thoughts, etc would be nice.
Last edited by Graycient; May 25 2012 at 06:06 AM.
NO MORE LEGENDARIES - This isn't a job, it's a game.
I don't see any reason in Lore* why you couldn't have Dwarf burglars - and burglars with axes would be kind of cool.
The only thing is, if Turbine was going to widen access to one class, you can be sure that people would be asking, "why no Elf Captains" etc. etc.
My guess is that classes and races are now fixed, and won't be added to or changed ever again.
*I know the hireing of Bilbo Baggins by the Company of Thorin Oakenshield is often used as justification for "no Dwarf burglars", but not only are they familiar with burglars, and quite comfortable about using them (suggesting there is no major cultural taboo), but the primary criteria used for the selection of the Company was who was available 'in these parts' - a burglar is necessary, says Gandalf, because there are no heroes, and Bilbo is necessary because he's the only one round here, right now. Doesn't mean no dwarf burglars.
I don't see any reason in Lore* why you couldn't have Dwarf burglars - and burglars with axes would be kind of cool.
The only thing is, if Turbine was going to widen access to one class, you can be sure that people would be asking, "why no Elf Captains" etc. etc.
My guess is that classes and races are now fixed, and won't be added to or changed ever again.
*I know the hireing of Bilbo Baggins by the Company of Thorin Oakenshield is often used as justification for "no Dwarf burglars", but not only are they familiar with burglars, and quite comfortable about using them (suggesting there is no major cultural taboo), but the primary criteria used for the selection of the Company was who was available 'in these parts' - a burglar is necessary, says Gandalf, because there are no heroes, and Bilbo is necessary because he's the only one round here, right now. Doesn't mean no dwarf burglars.
I don't think it has anything to do with cultural taboos. Rather, its because Dwarves are not stealthy. At all.
I don't think it has anything to do with cultural taboos. Rather, its because Dwarves are not stealthy. At all.
Yea, I just finished re-reading the hobbit. All the dwarves were mouth-breathing, foot-dragging, noise machines. In other words, the opposite of stealthy. And if dwarves had it in them to be burglars, I almost guarantee you Thorin would've sought a dwarf burglar instead of Bilbo. Then there's that line in the movies, "The dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark.", I'll admit Jackson probably made this line up, but it's the general impression I get from dwarves. They don't sneak in, they charge in. What I'd like to see, is dwarf wardens. Only instead of spears & javalins, they'd get axes & throwing axes(not the cheesy consumable ones, a new ranged weapon).
"The dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark.", I'll admit Jackson probably made this line up, but it's the general impression I get from dwarves.
That line is actually straight from the book (translated by Legolas, rather than directly spoken), though it is not aimed at Gimli; It is aimed at Sam.
I think it makes far more sense to broaden the races for Captain than it does to have dwarf burglars. There was a reason, after all, why the 13 dwarves in The Hobbit needed a hobbit to be their burglar on the adventure to Erebor...
Yea, I just finished re-reading the hobbit. All the dwarves were mouth-breathing, foot-dragging, noise machines. In other words, the opposite of stealthy. And if dwarves had it in them to be burglars, I almost guarantee you Thorin would've sought a dwarf burglar instead of Bilbo. Then there's that line in the movies, "The dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark.", I'll admit Jackson probably made this line up, but it's the general impression I get from dwarves. They don't sneak in, they charge in. What I'd like to see, is dwarf wardens. Only instead of spears & javalins, they'd get axes & throwing axes(not the cheesy consumable ones, a new ranged weapon).
This game is not based off of the Hobbit. LOTR.
NO MORE LEGENDARIES - This isn't a job, it's a game.
I keep seeing topics in the forums asking for a new class. I propose the Burglar be available to race of Dwarf for the Rohan Expansion. This would take less time for Turbine to implement, after all.
Dwarves are indeed capable of being Burglars. Look in Tolkiens writing and in mysterious stories in LOTRO for evidence of stealthiness in some Dwarves. LOTRO also already allowed Dwarf Hunter (which have a cammo skill at level 40, like any other hunter). Some dwarves are indeed capable of sneaking around. Bingo, they already have stealth!
Camouflage is deactivated the very second you move just the tiniest bit. Dwarves are NOT capable of sneaking around unless a burglar uses Share the Fun.
Originally Posted by Graycient
This game is not based off of the Hobbit. LOTR.
So? It's not like that much changes between the Hobbit and LOTR, and I dont recall anything in the LOTR trilogy suggesting that dwarves can be sneaky.
There are many things in the game that are taken directly from the Hobbit (from when they still owned that license), that does not appear at all in LOTR. While the game may, for the vast majority of it's content, be based on LOTR, there are certain parts that are directly based on the Hobbit; It's not "100% LOTR, nothing at all taken from the Hobbit".
Except ... that when Thorin and his companions needed a burglar -- or Gandalf decided they did, and he turned out to be right -- he didn't find them another Dwarf, he found them a Hobbit, a member of a species noted for its ability to move very quietly.
But at any rate hobbits can move quietly in woods, absolutely quietly. They take a pride in it, and Bilbo had sniffed more than once at what he called "all this dwarvish racket," as they went along, though I don't suppose you or I would have noticed anything at all on a windy night, not if the whole cavalcade had passed ten feet off. As for Bilbo walking primly toward the red light, I don't suppose even a weasel would have stirred a whisker at it.
The Burglar class is based on Bilbo Baggins, who was the burglar in The Hobbit. I don't recall much if any mention of burglars in LOTR. Middle earth is middle earth, regardless of which book is describing it.
So? It's not like that much changes between the Hobbit and LOTR, and I dont recall anything in the LOTR trilogy suggesting that dwarves can be sneaky.
Those dwarves were different. There were other dwarves that were stealthy!
The Burglar class is based on Bilbo Baggins, who was the burglar in The Hobbit. I don't recall much if any mention of burglars in LOTR. Middle earth is middle earth, regardless of which book is describing it.
It is. Which should cut Man out of the picture, no? So why not Dwarf since they have been recorded being stealthy.
NO MORE LEGENDARIES - This isn't a job, it's a game.
Gandalf chose Bilbo as the Burglar for several reasons. One of them was that Smaug was not familiar with the smell (and taste) of a hobbit so he would be curious to find out more about Bilbo instead of just devouring him.
Try not to forget that its not really in the nature of a dwarf to be sneaky they much prefer to go face to face no matter the odds its just how they are they like battle as much as they like Mithril.
Do dwarfs like Mithril as much as spongbob likes crabby patties ?
Yea, I just finished re-reading the hobbit. All the dwarves were mouth-breathing, foot-dragging, noise machines. In other words, the opposite of stealthy. And if dwarves had it in them to be burglars, I almost guarantee you Thorin would've sought a dwarf burglar instead of Bilbo. Then there's that line in the movies, "The dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark.", I'll admit Jackson probably made this line up, but it's the general impression I get from dwarves. They don't sneak in, they charge in. What I'd like to see, is dwarf wardens. Only instead of spears & javalins, they'd get axes & throwing axes(not the cheesy consumable ones, a new ranged weapon).
We have considering 1st and 2nd roles (olease correct me if I'm wrong)
Сhampion: Melee DPS/Tank
RK: Ranged DPS/Healer (both with same power)
LM: Debuffs and Crowd Control/Pets
Captain: Buffs/Tank
Burglar: Debuffs and Crowd Control/Melee DPS (?)
Warden: Tank/Ranged DPS
Guardian: Tank/Melee DPS
Hunter: Ranged DPS/Melee DPS
Minstrel: Healer/Buffs
So:
2 Healers (Minstrel and RK - they heal in a different way though)
1 Off-Healer (Captain)
1 Semi-Healer (LM)
2 Ranged DPS (Hunter - Physical and RK - Magical)
1 Melee DPS (Champion)
4 Semi-DPS (Ranged - Warden and Melee - Burglar, Hunter and Guardian)
2 Debuffers/Crowd Controllers (LM and Burglar)
1 Off-Crowd Controller (Hunter)
1 Pet Controller (LM)
1 Buffer (Captain)
1 Off-Buffer (Minstrel)
Well we don't need DPS for sure.
Lots of classes have a few debuff/crowd control skills, besides the specific classes for this role.
I don't see/want another class with the ability to control pets.
Tanks and heals seem to be OK.
Soooooo there is only room for another buffer class, of course it would have to buff differently (magic?) and maybe with different buffs than Captains. As its 3rd role would have to be DPS, I'd like to use your suggestion of throwing weapons (more than 1) and maybe some magic (if not role-breaking, which I doubt). 2nd role is the trick - I have to idea of what to put here - a new role? LOL. Maybe with the same power as the Buffer line? Don't know if it is ever possible, but I'd like to see a new race for this class.
I have been wanting a Dwarf Burglar for years. Dwarves are the only race to get majorly screwed over by the class selection.
Human's have DPS (Champ, Hunter), Tanks (Guards and Wardens), Healer (Mini), and Support classes (LM, Burg, Captain).
Elves have DPS (Champ, Hunter, RK), Tanks (Guard and Ward), Healer (Mini and RK), and Support classes (LM).
Hobbits have DPS (Hunter), Tanks (Guard), Healer (Mini), Support (Burglar).
Dwarves on the other hand get DPS, Tanks, and Healers, but no support, which is bogus.
I have been wanting a Dwarf Burglar for years. Dwarves are the only race to get majorly screwed over by the class selection.
Human's have DPS (Champ, Hunter), Tanks (Guards and Wardens), Healer (Mini), and Support classes (LM, Burg, Captain).
Elves have DPS (Champ, Hunter, RK), Tanks (Guard and Ward), Healer (Mini and RK), and Support classes (LM).
Hobbits have DPS (Hunter), Tanks (Guard), Healer (Mini), Support (Burglar).
Dwarves on the other hand get DPS, Tanks, and Healers, but no support, which is bogus.
Indeed. I believe we should get to have this.
NO MORE LEGENDARIES - This isn't a job, it's a game.
Personally I think they should just ditch all the race/class restrictions and have done with it. It's not like hobbit RKs or dwarven LMs are any less setting-appropriate than RKs or LMs in general, and several combinations (elven and dwarven captains, dwarven burglars and wardens) are arguably more setting-appropriate than what we already have.
Unfortunately, "setting appropriate" hasn't been the accepted currency around here for a long time (well before F2P), so I'm not holding my breath.
also im pretty sure a dwarf burg would be shunned by his kind just like an adventurous hobbit would be shunned by the normal hobbits
Actually, the exchange between Thorin and Gandalf about bringing a burglar (I think it was in Lost Tales, but I'm not positive) sounded to me like dwarven burglars weren't unheard of, just there were none in the area at the time the Company set out (plus Gandalf had a bee in his bonnet about bringing Bilbo, and pressured Thorin into taking him over anyone else). Remember, "burglar" wasn't synonymous with "thief"; it was way more Indiana Jones than it was Ocean's Eleven, and I can totally see a dwarf in a fedora tracking down and re-acquiring lost treasures.
Eh, better to put Captains as secondary healer rather than tank in your top description. The following items which describe Captains as off-healers and semi-tanks is more appropriate. Captains can do pretty well as healers in duos or 3-mans without having to change much of their build, but they have to trait very specifically to tank at all effectively. They can do all right if you just need to keep some mob busy beating on a heavy while everyone else focuses on other creatures, but it's hard to tank any instance where you need to keep aggro on multiple mobs.
Actually, the exchange between Thorin and Gandalf about bringing a burglar (I think it was in Lost Tales, but I'm not positive) sounded to me like dwarven burglars weren't unheard of, just there were none in the area at the time the Company set out (plus Gandalf had a bee in his bonnet about bringing Bilbo, and pressured Thorin into taking him over anyone else). Remember, "burglar" wasn't synonymous with "thief"; it was way more Indiana Jones than it was Ocean's Eleven, and I can totally see a dwarf in a fedora tracking down and re-acquiring lost treasures.
i mean shunned becuase they prefered tricky and underhanded fighting instead o honourable warfare
lore-masters are like wolves, alone we're pretty great but in a pack...
-snip- it was way more Indiana Jones than it was Ocean's Eleven, and I can totally see a dwarf in a fedora tracking down and re-acquiring lost treasures.
Ha, that's a quest line in another MMO. A total Indiana Jones ripoff, tomb exploration and a dwarf in a fedora too. Even a goblin Hitler. I suppose if they can pull that off Turbine can explain dwarf burglars somehow. I agree with the indy vs oceans comparison , the hobbit was winging it the whole story rather than having a well laid plan.
My support to the dwarf buglar that all the classes are allowed for all the races I love a hobbit loremaster, champion, and rune, and add am hobbit guardian rank13 almost 14 of etten firs guardian of server
Dwarf Buglars sounds kind of needing something to justify them, like do they lost their "sturdiness" to become "stealthy", are they some offspring of two or three races making them more agile....just doesn't really fit.
Camouflage is deactivated the very second you move just the tiniest bit. Dwarves are NOT capable of sneaking around unless a burglar uses Share the Fun.
So? It's not like that much changes between the Hobbit and LOTR, and I dont recall anything in the LOTR trilogy suggesting that dwarves can be sneaky.
This is one of those cases where logic is going to work. I am totally on your side, but the first 2 posters may never agree. If someone wants a dwarf burglar, they just WANT a dwarf burglar and will just ignore any arguments against it. This is why we get 40 page arguments for Beornings, flying mounts and playable rangers. There's that element in the population that doesn't care about what fits in the lore, they just want fun and for some reason don't want to play WoW. The desire for something to be true sometimes can't be overcome by facts. See also Trump and other birthers, 9/11 truthers, climate deniers, the folks that believe Elvis is alive running a Ferris wheel in Latvia and manbearpig hunters
Last edited by lordjimdudkiewicz; Jun 02 2012 at 06:22 PM.
"The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
"These pots are only available in the store and they are not available via crafting. Nor do we have any plans for this to change right now." -Frelorn
My support to the dwarf buglar that all the classes are allowed for all the races I love a hobbit loremaster, champion, and rune, and add am hobbit guardian rank13 almost 14 of etten firs guardian of server
Honestly, I do not want Turbine to make anything which might not fits Tolkin's Middle-earth.
This is the first MMO for me and is going to be the only one MMO I'm going to play. Why? Because LotRO has something that others never have --the world based on LotR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, etc.
I'm a person who never wishes Turbine to make a dwarf burglar, but if Turbine should do that by any remote chance, please make a new server or a new game named something like "The Lord of the Rings Online II" and let them only available there.
Perhaps I have offended those who want this change, but I really had to say this and I said this really seriously. Just don't want Turbine to make whatever brings money to them. No offense at all
I would also want to add that I'm against a new class named skin-changer, a skill named eagle-riding, some rare species for LMs' new species, etc.
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Originally Posted by sarlinspellweaver
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“A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.” -J.R.R. Tolkien
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Would be great!
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in my thoughts and in my dreams they´re always in my mind
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