I think Edoras should be a fair size, but not as refined looking as bree. To emphasize my first statement, Edoras is a capital city, and I think something larger than Stangard is appropriate. If it's too big, then Minas Tirith will be all the more bigger!
I'd prefer not to spend half my time trying to figure out where everything is and then the other half trying to remember it. Plus, as has been said, I've never pictured Edoras as being as big as Bree. *shrug*
Minas Tirith will be several times bigger than Bree (or at least should be) even if Edoras is as big as Bree it wouldn't subtract from the size of Minas Tirith.
Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
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As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
~~~~~
Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.
I'd prefer it to stick to the actual feel of Edoras in Middle Earth per the books as much as possible; noble but wilder. So not larger than Bree, please. Closer to Stangard sounds reasonable. If there are smaller steadings nearby (but not too close together) fine. But let's avoid an overly developed town or city feel. These are horse-lords, not urban sprawl developers.
I'm all for making Edoras as big or small as Tolkien's works describe it. Keep it lore-based. I think the movies had a good estimation of its size, which definitely felt smaller than the in-game Bree.
Edoras should be about Rivendell size. With most of it being the main building.
Bree is a major crossroads in Middle Earth where Edoras is just a capitol but there's no indication of it being a place where you see alot of travelers.
No idea if the "lore" prevents it (by describing Edoras as a lonely monolith in a barren landscape), but a good compromise could be a smaller inner city, maybe a more built-up Stangard, surrounded by a ring of outbuildings.
Being big just for "bigness" sake serves no purpose for me personally. The only circumstance where I could see a big Edoras would be if the city is THE main hub for most activities in RoR, including questlines and sidegames/instances. A bit like the 21st Hall that sent you in all the corners of Moria, but carried further.
Edoras should be about Rivendell size. With most of it being the main building.
Bree is a major crossroads in Middle Earth where Edoras is just a capitol but there's no indication of it being a place where you see alot of travelers.
As Dirk says above, Edoras would be closer to Rivendell both in size and layout than to Bree.
I think Edoras needs to be clearly larger than Stangard, but one way of avoiding unnecessary travel is to have all of the essential services either in or close to the Golden Hall. In the books the hall and stables are close together and are clearly the largest buildings in the town.
Minas Tirith on the other hand will present it's own unique challenges when the time comes, it will have to be fairly massive to get anywhere near the feel of the city as discribed in the books. Also it's built on seven levels, it will be intersting to see how the developers handle that one
Imagining Edoras as the IG Rivendell size, with the Last Homely House as the Golden Hall at the top of the hill, and then spraying the rest of Riv. down and around... I might be able to see that somewhat. Sounds like some reasonable ideas are being voiced and I definitely agree that lore should be the main reference and judge of it, as much as it may be open to some interpretation still.
There are some good quotes in djheydt's post on the book description of Edoras in the following forum link. I tried to add in my own two cents though I think his were better.
Isn't Edoras meant to be the largest town in Rohan?
So you by comparing it to Bree you're saying it shouldn't have a population of much more than a thousand?
Yet, at maximum muster, Rohan can raise 12,000 armed soldiers.
This makes no sense. If Edoras is the smaller than Bree, Aldburg (Eomer's place) must be the size of Staddle.
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Rohan's population is spread throughout its lands. The game areas are all condensed so keep in mind it may not seem like you can fit that many people within it and still have stretches of wilderness. If the world was to scale, people would complain more than they do sometimes about exploring it or getting anywhere quickly (though I wouldn't mind personally; I'd prefer large areas of wilderness per the books than large concentrations of civilization, but I know that's not possible heh). I think people are assuming that the Rohirrim all cluster at cities. They have musters for a reason; their people, chiefs and lords come from various areas of the land, not just inside Edoras. From book descriptions, it sounds more like scattered steadings across the Wold. See earlier posts by others concerning horses and area needed as well as settlement types for this kind of culture. This page of another thread has some interesting references and information.
When in doubt, take a look at the chapters that hold details of Rohan (The King of the Golden Halls, etc.). There seems to be a disconnect with some seeing large city-like clusters and others seeing the more wild, Beowulf or Iron Age style settlements.
It sounds like you are quoting the movie here. Not to sure if they say that in the books or not.
In the RotK,when Theoden is talking to the messanger from Gondor he mentions that he would have sent 10,000 spears to their aid but since he didnt want to leave his own lands undefended he would only send 6,000.12,000 seems like a reasonable number since we know that men stayed behind at Helms deep and possibly hundreds were killed in at the ford battles and Helms.
It sounds like you are quoting the movie here. Not to sure if they say that in the books or not.
In Unfinished Tales it gives a detailed description of Rohan's military.
There are 120 men in an Eored and at full muster there are 100 Eoreds which Theoden can call upon.
Due to the fact that Theoden had probably lost around 2000 in the fighting and needed to still leave behind men enough to defend Rohan, which is why he could only take 6000 men south.
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In Unfinished Tales it gives a detailed description of Rohan's military.
There are 120 men in an Eored and at full muster there are 100 Eoreds which Theoden can call upon.
Due to the fact that Theoden had probably lost around 2000 in the fighting and needed to still leave behind men enough to defend Rohan, which is why he could only take 6000 men south.
Originally Posted by SHADOW83
In the RotK,when Theoden is talking to the messanger from Gondor he mentions that he would have sent 10,000 spears to their aid but since he didnt want to leave his own lands undefended he would only send 6,000.12,000 seems like a reasonable number since we know that men stayed behind at Helms deep and possibly hundreds were killed in at the ford battles and Helms.
Isn't Edoras meant to be the largest town in Rohan?
So you by comparing it to Bree you're saying it shouldn't have a population of much more than a thousand?
Yet, at maximum muster, Rohan can raise 12,000 armed soldiers.
This makes no sense. If Edoras is the smaller than Bree, Aldburg (Eomer's place) must be the size of Staddle.
You are right about the numbers. However if I remember correctly not all of those soldiers were in Edoras. Didn't they have to wait 3 days for everyone to muster from surrounding villages before leaving? I seem to remember that being the case. I'll have to pull out Two Towers tonight and see if I can find it.
You are right about the numbers. However if I remember correctly not all of those soldiers were in Edoras. Didn't they have to wait 3 days for everyone to muster from surrounding villages before leaving? I seem to remember that being the case. I'll have to pull out Two Towers tonight and see if I can find it.
The only mention of 3 days is when Theoden arrives at dunharrow and one of the riders tells him that Gandalf came to Edoras 3 days earlier and told them to hasten the gathering and assemble in the valley under the mountains.
Well let's see, given that most of the land owning people in Rohan likely have horses, they would logically need a stable and grazing lands next to their houses.
Next up, given that travel would likely be easy because people are taught to ride horses from an early age, they'd logically have a spread out structure to the town/city. Simply by nature of the fact that travel throughout is easier.
More than that, Rohan itself is described as a sea of grass. I've always pictured the city itself as a ringed structure, The king owns the hill and uses it for his large herds and mead hall, and then it spirals outward from their with the nobles owning the land closest to the hill. And then a wall, and then the commoners living on the edges and possibly forming steads out that way, with decent sized fences.
Honestly, I've just recently started playing this game level 22ish now. Breeland is a fantastic size, it really feels like you are traveling when you go anywhere in Breeland. The town of Bree(and keep in mind it was EXPLICITLY a town in the books, a village to be precise, not nearly a city, just a village.) is the perfect size for a village. It's confusing to navigate sure, but having been to Europe, I'd say it's just the right level of confusing for an old English village. It's weird to have it mentioned as something needing to be larger than it, speaking from a matter of logic, anything important city-wise in LoTR needs to be bigger than Bree. If they want to stay true to the material. Bree is a town on the edges of the Shire, and the population is both Hobbits and Men, it's probably a fair bit smaller, with things more crowded than they would be in an actual human city.
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Originally Posted by Ironcrown
Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
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Re: Counter Petition for Edoras
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