Thread: Preventing power loss on boss fights

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Bloodlust is an awesome trait, but you need to have decent crit rating to really make this shine. It is even better in raids/groups as you will crit a lot more when you are buffed by a Captain and the Burg throws Counter Defence on the mob

Vodomir males a good point. I should also point out that I only trait Bloodlust when I am with another champ traiting Improved Rend. When grouping, putting a rend on a mob is going to increase the DPS of the group much more than your extra RS.

It would be very helpful if there were videos on Youtube for reviewing PVMP, PVE and raiding builds for Champions. As it stands the only way to learn this stuff is through Google searches, fellow players, and play experience.

Originally Posted by Gylve

If it's a competent guardian tanking, I like to throw out a bunch of big damage stuff right at the start of a 5+ min fight (CB -> Pip Builders -> Anduin Clicky -> Ferocious -> Fervour Pot -> ISB -> Remorseless -> Clobber -> Battle Frenzy -> Remorseless) then Ebb onto the guard. The guard's force taunts will allow him to hold it through all that, then Ebbing once you've done all that silly damage will give him a huge threat lead.

If the Guard uses Engage before you dump to him, it can put them even further ahead in aggro.

Originally Posted by Thorcar

If the Guard uses Engage before you dump to him, it can put them even further ahead in aggro.

Yepp, that's how good guards hold aggro even when the DPSers got ape crazy from the very beginning. They use challenge to give the DPSers 10 seconds of all out DPS madness and then use engage a second before challence wears off. Combined with threat stance this puts the guard 28% ahead of the best DPSers in your group/raid. Champs can continue to build a bit of aggro from that point on and then dump it onto the guard. This should help the guard to last until Challence and Engage are off CD again. Just Rinse and Repeat. Should the Guard still use aggro at some point, there's always Challenge the Darkness for another threeat copy.

Vodomir you were right. I guess I somehow messed up my measurements, so I did them again:
The rotation Wild Attack, Blade-Wall, Swift Strike, IFS takes 7.5 seconds with Flurry and two Unique Runes of Wisdom (SS might not be needed but I use it for net clashing with cooldowns and pips) whereas the same rotation with BS instead of IFS only takes 7.2 seconds. Therefore IFS take about 0.3 seconds longer than BS.
I'm trying to find out how long our skills take to execute but somehow my results do not correspond for different attack durations (e.g. 1.6 seconds for WA with Fervent Flurry and 2.3 seconds without Flurry, both without Runes of Wisdom, but 2.3*0.8=1.84).

Originally Posted by Thruili

Vodomir you were right. I guess I somehow messed up my measurements, so I did them again:
The rotation Wild Attack, Blade-Wall, Swift Strike, IFS takes 7.5 seconds with Flurry and two Unique Runes of Wisdom (SS might not be needed but I use it for net clashing with cooldowns and pips) whereas the same rotation with BS instead of IFS only takes 7.2 seconds. Therefore IFS take about 0.3 seconds longer than BS.
I'm trying to find out how long our skills take to execute but somehow my results do not correspond for different attack durations (e.g. 1.6 seconds for WA with Fervent Flurry and 2.3 seconds without Flurry, both without Runes of Wisdom, but 2.3*0.8=1.84).

Until I get my agility higher would IFS, at 0.3 second slower, be better than Brutal Strikes in my case?

I assume you mean Finesse because IFS bypass some parry or evade but do not have a higher hit chance.
But if you always hit your enemies from behind (as long as the tank holds aggro) they will neither block nor parry and as far as I have observed you should get more crits and a higher to-hit-chance. Now BS have a shorter execution time, deal more damage per hit and have a higher crit multiplier for the offhand strike than IFS (1.5 compared to 1.1), so you should rather use BS instead of IFS. FS and RS are still considered better but I will neither confirm nor deny this as long as I have not finished my experiments.

On a side note, I found out that the offhand swipe of Raging Blades has the lowest crit multiplier of all melee skills namely 1. I wonder why it is not at least 1.1 like with some other skills and auto-attacks.

Originally Posted by kxmode92

Until I get my agility higher would IFS, at 0.3 second slower, be better than Brutal Strikes in my case?

Personally I wouldn't use either of those strike skills in a Dual Wield Setup. My favorite strike skill is Remorseless Strike. I only use Brutal in rare occasions when Remorseless is off CD (which doesn't happen that often due to Remorseless' short CD) and IFS when I need to remove corruptions (that's the only thing this skill is good for; there are better strike skills for DPS in both Dual Wield and 2H setup).

If you had to choose one or the other, I'd recommend going with brutal. It nets more damage, has a shorter animation (thus even more DPS) and does not mess with corruptions (there are fights, where uncontrolled removal of corruptions is not desirable). IFS also doesn't do anything to help with your miss chance. IFS penetrates the enemie's parry/evade but on landscape mobs you shouldn't see too many parrys or evades once your finesse is up a bit.

Thanks guys!

I think what's missing for me is there's a lot of paragraphs of information and everyone is different. What would help me is if you could post the rotations you use in a list format, and the purpose why you chose each each skill.

Originally Posted by kxmode92

Thanks guys!

I think what's missing for me is there's a lot of paragraphs of information and everyone is different. What would help me is if you could post the rotations you use in a list format, and the purpose why you chose each each skill.

DW Rotation:

• Wild Attack (Pip builder)
  Blade Wall (Traited pip-builder, 2 strikes when DW)
  Rend (Armor reduction)
  Swift Strike (Pip builder)
  Wild Attack (Pip builder)
  Remorseless Strikes (Primary damage dealing skill)

Rinse and repeat WA, BW, RS until Rend needs to be applied again, add Second Wind as needed based on likely fight duration. Activate Improved Seeking Blades each time it is available.


2H Rotation:

• Swift Strike (Pip builder)
  Wild Attack (Pip builder)
  Rend (see above re: DW)
  Swift Strike (Pip builder)
  Wild Attack (Pip builder)
  • Improved Seeking Blades (see below)
    Remorseless Strikes (for auto-crit big damage)
    Battle Frenzy (traited)
    Remorseless Strikes (with improved Crit Chance)
    Swift Strike
    Wild Attack
  Brutal Strikes (Primary damage dealing skill)

Rinse and repeat SS/WA/BS until Rend needs to be applied again, add Second Wind as needed. Utilize RS loop only when ISB is available.

Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

fight on can be very useful in the moors.

Also, in acid t2c since it's such a short fight and 25% more damage for 30 seconds could be the difference.



I didn't realize they removed the morale gate. It's still grayed out for me until i'm below 60%

60* seconds or you're doing it wrong.A

Also, there seems to be a misconception that the post-auto crit rating buff to remorseless makes it worth using over brutal for 2H. It doesn't.

^ Especially since you should be spamming BS as much as possible between ISB's to get the CD back down (if you've got 3 pieces of Delulagos).

Originally Posted by Wilkens

DW Rotation:

• Wild Attack (Pip builder)
  Blade Wall (Traited pip-builder, 2 strikes when DW)
  Rend (Armor reduction)
  Swift Strike (Pip builder)
  Wild Attack (Pip builder)
  Remorseless Strikes (Primary damage dealing skill)

Rinse and repeat WA, BW, RS until Rend needs to be applied again, add Second Wind as needed based on likely fight duration. Activate Improved Seeking Blades each time it is available.

That's pretty much what I do. With Bloodlust you will often find that after hitting Remorseless one Wild Attack is often enough to be able to use Remorseless again - if that's the case, you can obviously omit Wild Attack for that cycle and just use Remorseless or Brutal (if RS is still on CD). You can also use the instant pips of Battle Frenzy and Fervour Potions for nice Burst DMG combos (using Clobber and/or Hedge to add extra DMG into the RS animation time frame).

Has anyone got in four RS during a ISB? I've come close but haven't done it. If so, what rotation did you use?

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

60* seconds or you're doing it wrong.A

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lDhTB_rrvQk

watch 5:30 to 6:00

Some people just don't know how pathetic they are, right?

Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lDhTB_rrvQk

watch 4:30 to 6:00

Some people just don't know how pathetic they are, right?

Your link doesn't work.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

60* seconds or you're doing it wrong.A

Also, there seems to be a misconception that the post-auto crit rating buff to remorseless makes it worth using over brutal for 2H. It doesn't.

Except why not, I've got the increase crit chance and I'm inserting the second RS via Battle Frenzy which make it, essentially, a free strike. If I use the BF to trigger a Brutal then I'm, likely as not, going to run into skill cooldown issues trying to maintain the rotation and since I'm already entering a rotation break for the ISB strike why not continue the break (since I can probably slip my Rend and Second Wind in here) and get a second RS with increased crit chance before resuming the normal BS rotation?

Originally Posted by Wilkens

Except why not, I've got the increase crit chance and I'm inserting the second RS via Battle Frenzy which make it, essentially, a free strike. If I use the BF to trigger a Brutal then I'm, likely as not, going to run into skill cooldown issues trying to maintain the rotation and since I'm already entering a rotation break for the ISB strike why not continue the break (since I can probably slip my Rend and Second Wind in here) and get a second RS with increased crit chance before resuming the normal BS rotation?

"worth using over brutal"

Brutal being on CD is another matter entirely. Personally I prefer ferocious strikes in this situation, but sometimes I'm too lazy to hit the somewhat obscure 7 key and just hit remorseless. Or I untraited it for some reason or other.

Originally Posted by kxmode92

Thanks guys!

I think what's missing for me is there's a lot of paragraphs of information and everyone is different. What would help me is if you could post the rotations you use in a list format, and the purpose why you chose each each skill.

Originally Posted by Wilkens

2H Rotation

Almost same rotation here, running 2H all the time as my 1h/dw build is not yet ready ... so I amended Wilkens quote to my rota:

1.
Hedge (in Glory gives fat armour bonus AND prevents disarms!)

2.
Swift Strike (Pip)
Wild Attack (Pip and Sudden Defense cd reduction)
Rend (Armour reduction and Bleed)

Swift Strike (Pip)
Wild Attack (Pip +SD reduct)
Brutal Strikes
repeat ...

3. When ISB/BF is available:
Improved Seeking Blades (when off cd)
Remorseless Strikes
Battle Frenzy
Remorseless Strikes
Swift Strike
Wild Attack
Brutal Strikes


Adding Second Wind and Bracing Attack as needed, Rend instead of Brutal Strike when rend wears off.