Thread: Most underwhelming class in moors: Captain

I pretty much tried my best running cappy in moors. About to give up any moment now. We have ABSOLUTELY no defense against BA kiting. Wargs with flayer build own us. Defiler just leech our power. I'm not too sure why the creeps are complaining the freeps are OP. Maybe champs, wardens and minis. But in my personal experience cappy ranked the lowest in moors.

And please dont tell me to L2P. I'm R7 cappy with full aud gear. I have full limlight jewelry. The only 2 thing i haven't upgraded is my neck and my cloak. So in terms of gears and effort spent, i'm about 80% optimised my cappy.

I played other mmos. I learn the class mechanic in detail, get my starts and combo, work on my gear, and pawn. I dont want an OP class, i enjoy the challenge of learning and mastering a difficult class. But OMG, the effort i spent developing my cappy is nowhere near the satisfaction of playing this class.

So please developer. FIX THIS! In moors, please change our speed buff so we can counter CC! Reduce the effect on ur party member to balance it. Make captain more viable to compete against the creeps individually. Give us a fighting chance against kiters.

Sorry to disappoint, but Turbine doesn't really care about balancing classes on a 1v1 basis. Captains are amazingly useful in groups, so trying to solo with them is like trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver. If you're really dedicated, the nail might go in...but I'm still going to be trying to stifle a snicker while I watch you do it.

you should try playing a reaver sometime

Originally Posted by Hayvok

I pretty much tried my best running cappy in moors. About to give up any moment now. We have ABSOLUTELY no defense against BA kiting. Wargs with flayer build own us. Defiler just leech our power. I'm not too sure why the creeps are complaining the freeps are OP. Maybe champs, wardens and minis. But in my personal experience cappy ranked the lowest in moors.

And please dont tell me to L2P. I'm R7 cappy with full aud gear. I have full limlight jewelry. The only 2 thing i haven't upgraded is my neck and my cloak. So in terms of gears and effort spent, i'm about 80% optimised my cappy.

I played other mmos. I learn the class mechanic in detail, get my starts and combo, work on my gear, and pawn. I dont want an OP class, i enjoy the challenge of learning and mastering a difficult class. But OMG, the effort i spent developing my cappy is nowhere near the satisfaction of playing this class.

So please developer. FIX THIS! In moors, please change our speed buff so we can counter CC! Reduce the effect on ur party member to balance it. Make captain more viable to compete against the creeps individually. Give us a fighting chance against kiters.

Your gear is proof you don't need to learn to play? How does that work? Does having gear make you know your class? There are some Cappies who can win 1v1s. I direct you to Armitas of Meneldor. He isn't alone, either.

No defense vs Kiting BAs? 45S Make Haste. Can't it even be used to Cure slows provided you use a set? Macro that, man. Flayer Wargs own you? Flayer is awful for fighting Captains. Are you using Revealing Mark? Defilers are probably a legit complaint but who cares, not like they can reasonably kill you either. Complaining about being kited on a Freep is kind of hilarious, you guys have so much more utility to deal with kiting on average it is sickening. I suggest playing a Reaver.


Either way, the Moors isn't about 1v1s. Cappies are amazing in groups, they definitely have a place out there.

Go play a low ranked BA or weaver or something. You'll soon learn to appreciate how amazing the captain is.

If Make Haste is on CD then it is very aggravating trying to catch another player. Our slow is also only 2.5m range so we have to get very close to get it off. I understand the OP, however, if you play this game as much as you do then it sounds like you could get any set fairly easily. The Perseverance 5 set bonus cures slows with Make Haste and Routing Cry stun is excellent at stopping creeps if they're 3m away..

I've seen well played Captain's dominate in 1v1. Just because you can't play your class right doesn't mean Captains are the most underwhelming class in PvP.

As Lugbur said, try rolling a reaver sometime.

Roll a different class if you're going to solo the majority of the time. Otherwise, I'll have to disagree if you think they're at the bottom of the pecking order.

WL is worse, I guarantee you. But cappies arent marvelous, true.

Turbine only cares about PvE and in PvE cappys are near OP in there tankiness + heals + buffs. They do not care about balancing you for 1v1s or any other creep class.

Thx for all the suggestion. I was pretty depressed when i posted it. I will take all the advice to heart. I will rank to R8 to get my banner and see if it helps. Macroing the 5 set perseverance is a good idea, i will set that up. I probably can switch the running buff duration from my main LI to a secondary LI and macro that too. Probably gonna replace it with defensive strike legacy or might one.

Most of the posts do kinda agree with what i felt deep down. This game have horrible balance for 1v1 for some classes. Learn to pick ur fights.

To repay for the good advice i been given, i'll share some tricks i learnt as well:

- Don't worry about ur power regen. To maintain a good power regen on cappy, you have to sacrifice ur damage/survivability(sp?). Use now for wrath. If u keep ur might high enough, u will gain power everytime u pop rally cry. Get ur rally cry cd to 6s <-- very crucial.

- When a warg pounce you, use the green pot, use time of need, routing cry (if u are not yellow). I found 90% of the time, the wargs cant resist this and will give u enough time to drop ur banner, mark them, and give u devastating blow to boot.

- Traited muster courage and time of need is match made in heaven. In anticipated fights, i always muster courage, time of need, war-cry before hand. This will offset the morale loss and make ur muster courage ready sooner. The 15% attack speed is ESSENTIAL for most fights and will keep ur morale up with reveal mark.

- Might > physical mastery, Vit > morale.

Thats a few things i learnt so far. Feel free to criticize them. Some best advice is given in form of criticism.

Originally Posted by Hayvok

And please dont tell me to L2P. I'm R7 cappy with full aud gear. I have full limlight jewelry. The only 2 thing i haven't upgraded is my neck and my cloak. So in terms of gears and effort spent, i'm about 80% optimised my cappy.

Learn to play.

Gear doesn't equate to skill.

In all seriousness, go read some of Armitas' posts on solo'ing on a Captain in the Captain forums. While I have my own unique techniques for solo'ing, everything listed there is solid information and would get you set in the right direction.

A Cappy is certainly one of the tougher freep classes to run solo but don't get disheartened, while you are nowhere near as powerful as a geared Mini or Champ that doesn't mean that you are free infamy. I'm certainly not a good player and I don't have great gear, but what success I've had has come from working out a simple plan/rotation and keeping calm enough to execute it.

Working out a skill rotation is the easy part, there are a number of quite helpful threads on the Captain forum about solo pvp, it's the execution that is the important part and that takes practice. The way I got it was to spar an experienced freep friend of mine over and over . I lost a lot but eventually I worked things out so that I wasn't embarassing myself anymore.

Hang in there, mate, I'm sure you'll get the hang of things.

come to meneldor i teach you how to 1v1 all creep class , kiting ba is easy, just make sure he is slowed too so your ms is the same

I'm going to go right out and say it.

You are just a terrible player.

I've seen you out in the moors for at least a month, have fought you while you were in raids/groups and not ONCE did I see Shield of Dunedain. Also am confident that you didn't even use rallying cry.

Captain in group/raid play is what makes the difference in freep domination, fortunately all the ones that remain on E suck.

Originally Posted by OscarGutay

come to meneldor i teach you how to 1v1 all creep class , kiting ba is easy, just make sure he is slowed too so your ms is the same

How are you going to slow me when hindering shot makes you run slower even with Make Haste.

PS: My fear pot is keybound

Originally Posted by Commish

How are you going to slow me when hindering shot makes you run slower even with Make Haste.

PS: My fear pot is keybound

make haste +25% run speed & cutting attack slow -25% run speed (+coffee if they are using it)= faster than your 40% slow. although this relies entirely on getting cutting attack slow off.

but still, a BA should never lose to a cappy 1v1 anyways

Naturally, half of the responses are learn to play and you're a terrible player. Why even respond to him if you're just gonna insult him. My opinion. It can take alot of practice and gear optimizing to be really good solo on a cappy. Even when on more solo suited classes, good opposition will test you and your patience.
Even with make haste, like he said, you're still slowed. I've always found that having the option to wield a 12 foot long halberd and it not affecting your melee range was ridiculous.

Like most have mentioned though, captain is a support class foremost. In a good group you're a godsend for your friends and a huge PITA for your enemies.

In addition, these items are used by alot of melee to stack tactical mitigation. These will help ALOT in lowering damage from everything.

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Armour:Sarchol

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Item:Gregolin

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Item:Gold-inlaid_Flask

Plus the 2 pvp rings and if you hold out, the rank 8 cappy banner which will give another 1350 tactical and physical mitigation.

With my math, assuming you have none of that. It's easily another 5.5k+ tactical mitigation on top of what you have, which will pretty much make you immortal. Cheers!

Originally Posted by Dercin

In addition, these items are used by alot of melee to stack tactical mitigation. These will help ALOT in lowering damage from everything.

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Armour:Sarchol

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Item:Gregolin

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Item:Gold-inlaid_Flask

Plus the 2 pvp rings and if you hold out, the rank 8 cappy banner which will give another 1350 tactical and physical mitigation.

With my math, assuming you have none of that. It's easily another 5.5k+ tactical mitigation on top of what you have, which will pretty much make you immortal. Cheers!

Hmm.. yes i've seen a few ppl wearing that cloak. Drops from pits of isengard T2. I will work on that. Thanks for the advice Dercin.

Well this thread been turning out to be a gold mine for me.

ATM, with my current gears, i have 1600might, 1100vit, 7.7k crit, 8.5k phys mit, 8.1k tact mit. With completed virtue i can have another 1k tact mit. And the banner will add another 1.3k. That cloak will add another 1.5k.

I'm abit iffy investing on the pvp ring. The 400+ tact mit bonus equates to around 100vit. The anduain martyr set seems to give about the same benefit.

My virtues is very lacking, but i've only played this game for 2 months. Something to work on as well. And yes, I've read the captain soling guide in moors. That teach me quite alot.

Just some of the replies amuses me.

Gears != skills. That is very true. But you do need gears to compete with the best.

L2P! Yes, i'm doing it.

Originally Posted by Dercin

I've always found that having the option to wield a 12 foot long halberd and it not affecting your melee range was ridiculous.

One of the aspects of lotro that has always really bothered me.

A bigger weapon should mean more range.

Originally Posted by Hayvok

Stuff

Fought you quite a lot in the couple months you've been out (assuming you're the cappy Hayvoc on E) and you've slowly been getting better. Soloing on a cappy can be rough until you've learned the ropes, have good movement and get a solid rotation. I'll try and help by pointing out a few things i've noticed from our fights, and others i've watched you partake in.

1. Movement needs a lot of work, this is probably the biggest area you need to work on. Its essential that you are able to both stay in range and be able to limit the amount of damage you take. I won't get into the whole mouse v keyboard turning debate, suffice to say you need to develop much better movement to compete in 1v1's.. I'm almost constantly on your back during our 1v1's taking little to no damage. Personally mouse turning works a charm for me on melee classes, others use a combo of mouse and keyboard effectively.

2. Never let cunning attack slow drop. Can be difficult with BPE but there were times you forgot to use it.

3. Sometimes you may want to kite in and out at different times either for heals or to let battle shout come off cd. Recognising these times is something you'll pick up as you continue playing.

4. Stack tactical mitigation as others have said. Sarchol, pocket item, necklace are the three easiest places to improve your tact mit.

Elendilmir has quite a lot of successful 1v1 captains. If you haven't already you might want to watch and learn from the likes of Galareion, Fathlorn, Eaola and Arathain.

Originally Posted by Elysiak

Elendilmir has quite a lot of successful 1v1 captains. If you haven't already you might want to watch and learn from the likes of Galareion

im fairly sure i nearly beat that cappy as a like...rank 2 reaver...ill just say he was going very very easy on me. true i only fought him the one time as i dont spend a whole lot of time on my reaver over there(only R4 now :P), but i mean cmon, who comes even close to losing to a R2 reaver? (this was pre-audacity, pre-U6 too i believe. it was a while back and my memory isnt the best when it comes to updates/when i fought someoen)

again, maybe i have the name wrong(although im like 99% sure), or maybe someone else was playing his/her account? idk, but if its the one im thinking of, might not want to take too many tips from there :P

Originally Posted by Elysiak

Fought you quite a lot in the couple months you've been out (assuming you're the cappy Hayvoc on E) and you've slowly been getting better. Soloing on a cappy can be rough until you've learned the ropes, have good movement and get a solid rotation. I'll try and help by pointing out a few things i've noticed from our fights, and others i've watched you partake in.

1. Movement needs a lot of work, this is probably the biggest area you need to work on. Its essential that you are able to both stay in range and be able to limit the amount of damage you take. I won't get into the whole mouse v keyboard turning debate, suffice to say you need to develop much better movement to compete in 1v1's.. I'm almost constantly on your back during our 1v1's taking little to no damage. Personally mouse turning works a charm for me on melee classes, others use a combo of mouse and keyboard effectively.

2. Never let cunning attack slow drop. Can be difficult with BPE but there were times you forgot to use it.

3. Sometimes you may want to kite in and out at different times either for heals or to let battle shout come off cd. Recognising these times is something you'll pick up as you continue playing.

4. Stack tactical mitigation as others have said. Sarchol, pocket item, necklace are the three easiest places to improve your tact mit.

Elendilmir has quite a lot of successful 1v1 captains. If you haven't already you might want to watch and learn from the likes of Galareion, Fathlorn, Eaola and Arathain.

Yes, thats me. =) Thank you for your keen observation. I do admit ignorance in the subtlety of positioning. My default approach to battle is charge in fast and just maneuver enough to stay in hitting range. I do know to move backward against wargs but if they are in flayer mode, i tend to stay close to them to deeps em as much as i can while their mini bubble is down.

And yes, against reaver and wargs, i should bleed them and push thru them and move away to outlast them.

Against BA, i can only use my insignia and hope to burn them off under a minute. Once i get my 5th perseverance i should be able to use that after my insignia worn off.

I've seen Fathlorn in action be4, he's VERY GOOD. I sparred with him once when i just started moorsing. It wasnt pretty for me. The other 3 cappy i havent seen them around. I'll keep a look out for them.

Thank you once again.

Originally Posted by KillGore81

One of the aspects of lotro that has always really bothered me.

A bigger weapon should mean more range.

We're still controlling our horses with our minds too, wtb horse reins.

ello Hayvoc, I must say in the time I've seen you out in the moors on E you've improved a lot. It's just a bit of a shame that there hasn't been a whole lot of "impromptu 1v1 action" as of late around aus/nz prime time... Unless I've just been missing it all :| The small group/raid action has been decent though, as you know

Tell you what though, I love watching Cappy/WL 1v1s though. Especially when they take forever... What a way to test one's mettle. You're solid Hayvoc, keep up the great work, and keep improving.

Originally Posted by Vaapad

Tell you what though, I love watching Cappy/WL 1v1s though. Especially when they take forever... What a way to test one's mettle. You're solid Hayvoc, keep up the great work, and keep improving.

you should try defiler/captain 1v1 :P even worse. i had one go on for about ~40 minutes before i changed my flies name to "TIEPLEASE" cause i had to log off

Originally Posted by 0987654321

im fairly sure i nearly beat that cappy as a like...rank 2 reaver...ill just say he was going very very easy on me. true i only fought him the one time as i dont spend a whole lot of time on my reaver over there(only R4 now :P), but i mean cmon, who comes even close to losing to a R2 reaver? (this was pre-audacity, pre-U6 too i believe. it was a while back and my memory isnt the best when it comes to updates/when i fought someoen)

again, maybe i have the name wrong(although im like 99% sure), or maybe someone else was playing his/her account? idk, but if its the one im thinking of, might not want to take too many tips from there :P

Nope, never happened.

@OP. Once you start picking up Audacity pieces it will become far easier. Build up mits and crits for superb performance. I'll be back in a couple days if you wish to ask some further questions.

Originally Posted by Vaapad

ello Hayvoc, I must say in the time I've seen you out in the moors on E you've improved a lot. It's just a bit of a shame that there hasn't been a whole lot of "impromptu 1v1 action" as of late around aus/nz prime time... Unless I've just been missing it all :| The small group/raid action has been decent though, as you know

Tell you what though, I love watching Cappy/WL 1v1s though. Especially when they take forever... What a way to test one's mettle. You're solid Hayvoc, keep up the great work, and keep improving.

Heyy Vaapad, best LM in E moors! I actually felt sorry for LM till i saw u owning 1v1. Keep hurting those BAs for me will ya.

Originally Posted by Champtain

Nope, never happened.

@OP. Once you start picking up Audacity pieces it will become far easier. Build up mits and crits for superb performance. I'll be back in a couple days if you wish to ask some further questions.

Now my biggest question: Whats a good crit rating to maintain for cappies? I'm sitting at 7.7k atm. I can increase it to 8.5k but i have to sacrifice might and vit. But to tell u the truth, i fare worse that way. And against flayers and high ranked creeps, i never get a crit to RC myself. Ur opinion?

Originally Posted by Champtain

Nope, never happened.

@OP. Once you start picking up Audacity pieces it will become far easier. Build up mits and crits for superb performance. I'll be back in a couple days if you wish to ask some further questions.

eh, was someone with a name close to yours then. oh well :P

Originally Posted by Vaapad

Tell you what though, I love watching Cappy/WL 1v1s though. Especially when they take forever... What a way to test one's mettle.

I distinctly remember having a lack of mettle and combat logging when I fought him on my WL.

Originally Posted by 0987654321

im fairly sure i nearly beat that cappy as a like...rank 2 reaver...ill just say he was going very very easy on me. true i only fought him the one time as i dont spend a whole lot of time on my reaver over there(only R4 now :P), but i mean cmon, who comes even close to losing to a R2 reaver? (this was pre-audacity, pre-U6 too i believe. it was a while back and my memory isnt the best when it comes to updates/when i fought someoen)

again, maybe i have the name wrong(although im like 99% sure), or maybe someone else was playing his/her account? idk, but if its the one im thinking of, might not want to take too many tips from there :P

I'm guessing you're remembering another cappy. Gala is not one to go slow and easy in any encounter, 1v1 or otherwise

At least thank Turbine for what they did to our pathetic class, captains weren't even close to what they are right now before the useless expansion. (a.k.a RoI)

Originally Posted by Dercin

I've always found that having the option to wield a 12 foot long halberd and it not affecting your melee range was ridiculous.

Halberds were used to pull enemies off horseback and to block. It would make a ton of sense to have them give a greater range.

A goblin 1 hander is longer than our halberd.
A warg face is longer (autoattacks) than our halberd.

Originally Posted by Armitas

Halberds were used to pull enemies off horseback and to block. It would make a ton of sense to have them give a greater range.

A goblin 1 hander is longer than our halberd.
A warg face is longer (autoattacks) than our halberd.

Yes, but saying my auto-attacks are longer range than your halberd isn't a very big deal. My skills have the same range as yours, and i have no chance of kiting you 1m away from me :/ Also your auto-attacks hit harder than mine.

Originally Posted by lucky100x

Yes, but saying my auto-attacks are longer range than your halberd isn't a very big deal. My skills have the same range as yours, and i have no chance of kiting you 1m away from me :/ Also your auto-attacks hit harder than mine.

but you have twice as many legs as me.

Is this a serious post? If you're failing at Captain, you should just quit at PvP in this game.

Originally Posted by Hayvok

And please dont tell me to L2P. I'm R7 cappy with full aud gear. I have full limlight jewelry. The only 2 thing i haven't upgraded is my neck and my cloak. So in terms of gears and effort spent, i'm about 80% optimised my cappy...

No flame here or troll but Hayvok you are a bad one captain...I have noticed also that many times you have tried to kite a greenie creepy into npcs at EC even that didnt save you ! Obviously you dont know how to play your class , so dont even bother answer to me. There are many captains out there that they can easily kill every creep at 1vs1 so i dont think the specific issue is turbine's fault but yours.

Originally Posted by Kaganpwnz0r

No flame here or troll but Hayvok you are a bad one captain...I have noticed also that many times you have tried to kite a greenie creepy into npcs at EC even that didnt save you ! Obviously you dont know how to play your class , so dont even bother answer to me. There are many captains out there that they can easily kill every creep at 1vs1 so i dont think the specific issue is turbine's fault but yours.

So how's this not a flame?

So what if he's not the best captain. Maybe instead of dissing and flaming you should offer actual advice?
Plus if you haven't played or don't play a captain in the moors maybe your advice isn't valid anyway.