Thread: What PvMP in lotro need

PvMp is now unbalanced and dont have any intresting new things after beginning of the game.
For this reason i think it need some rework.
For the balance:
-Reduce minstrels war speech healing with 80%, htey are in god mode now.
-Rework the blackarrows moving target skill to not be invincble against hunters, and be useful against tactical dps classes to, so it must give +40% evade and +30% resist chance
- Hunter’s camouflage now works in-combat, with the same cd

Creep classes need to update (wargs and spiders not, but others must have that)

Defiler:
-Defense of the drying mud – Remowes induction setbacks from defiler, have 15sec cd, dispelled ont he move, disabled in course stance.
-Blessing of Darkness – a stacking heal with a less pulses and induction (remove plz the useless previous skill) (this isnt requires trait, trait now giving Course of Darkness)
-Course Stance – have 10 sec induction, a very visible animation (freeps must see that and can interrupt that if defiler tries do that int he battle) (he must the outof the battle), the stance removes induction from courses but still must be in place to use them, and they are all 5target Aoe, with 10m radius (Except Course of Darkness, it makes that skill to Improwed Course of Darkness),(alters Fire Gourd to Improwed Fire Gourd), diseable skills: Fungal spores, Blessing of Darkness, Fell sacrifise, Efflorescence.
-Course of Darkness – have the same cd, and channels duration like old Blessing of Darkness, and rquires that trait. It s dealing 200 shadow damage in every second until the duration of the channel, channels cannot have sat backs by damage but can be interrupted, it is rooting his target (root isnt braking on damage) (champ can still escape with blod rage, and burg can also escape with addle)
-Improwed Course of Darkness – Also gives +3K finesse to every incoming attack
-Improwed Fire Gourd – Frist damage is doubled, Dot is stacking 3 times, cd removed

Trait: Master of Darkness – Enables skill Course of Darkness, and balessing of darkness now have a slef heal compnent. (replaces trait blessing of darkness)

Defilers are nowadays useless for debuffing, coz lng inductions, and coz debuffs arent aoe, they are lacking a brust heal (what is can be effectively sustained on 1 target). The blessing of darkness skill is useless: 1 very visible so immediatly interrupted, or every freep damages the defended target-> defiler dead, 2 morale transfer, so low morale target still can be one-shooted, 3 have a small animation so it is often too late, 4 disbales healing

Reavers:
-Charge - now it is useable in combat with the same benefits
-Dying Rage - not kills the raever at the end (now arent worth the trait slot, also not the tp or rank)
-Gut Punch and Improwed Gut Punch - cd reduced to 3 sec
-Mark of Fear - Marks the target (like captains mark) and gives back 15% of the damage as healing

- Trait: Improwed Hamstring – Gives -50%inc healing to debuff of the hamstring skill.
- Trait: Burning Blades – now has +15% fire damage, and +40% crit multilpier
-Trait: Extended Reach – Now gives +3 aoe skill Target, and reduces power cost and cooldown of Aoe damaging skills

Rework some reawers skill, charge must be same but useable in combat, to be more useful, also reavers must have some survival skills or lot more dps, they do less dps than a glory champion and are squishierNeed out going DAMAGE not out going disturbance. And need to reduce gut punch cd to 3sec to be a real threat.

Blackarrow:
-Blackarrows now cant reach 1K dps on grammsfoot slugs! so they must have some more dps, in general they must have +15% crit multiplier, and +15% ranged damage
-Moving traget – it is now gives +40% evade rating,gives +40% evade rating, and +30% resist chance
-Keen eye – itis now gives +10m (both skills & auto attacks) max range for the blackarrow (slowly building up, so after the 10 shot, at frist shot it isnt giving max range benefits) (it is needed , coz caster characters can esaily kill the 75% slowed blackarrow) so bonus giving:
1 shot: +1m max range, +3% ranged damage, -7,5% induction, -10% movment speed
2 shot: +2m max range, +6% ranged damage, -15% induction, -20% movment speed
3 shot: +3m max range, +10% ranged damage, -22,5% induction, -30% movement speed
4 shot: +4m max range, +15% ranged damage, -30% induction, -40% movmenet speed
5 shot: +5m max range, +21% ranged damage, -37,5% induction, -50% movement speed
6 shot: +6m max range, +30% ranged damage, -45% induction, - 60% movement speed
7 shot: +7m max range, +45% ranged damage, -52,5% induction, -70% movement speed
8 shot: +8m max range, +58% ranged damage, -60% induction, -80% movement speed
9 shot: +9m max range, +79% ranged damage, -67.5% induction, -90% movement speed
10 shot: +10m max range, +100% ranged damage, -75% induction, root
With these that skill will make a real bonus for the price of moving.
-Center: now not channeled skill, instead that, heals 125 power every 1 seconds for 30 seconds

Trait: Deadly Aim – Gives 5K critical rating, +35% crit multiliper, and same finesse as before
Trait: Enhanced Skill Headshot – now it gives 100% knockdown chance
Trait: Poisoned Arrows – (replaces trait: feel the burn) All ranged skills (except flaming arrow, and scream shafts) deal now acid damage, and has 5% chance to apply a Dot to you enemy that can be cured and deals 50 damage every seconds for 45 sec (coz one of blackarrows strongest enemy, the runkeeper can absorb fire damage)
Trait: never tire-> skill - never tire –Heals restores 2000 power on an ally, 30 sec cd (replacing the most useless skill/trait in the game the trait: steadfast barrage)

Warleader:
Trait: Snap out of it -> snap out of it – cd removed, it is now gives 1 min immunity to stuns, dazes, and knockdowns
Trait: Purge -> Purge – removes stuns, dazes, knockdown, fears, and roots from all group members within 40m , and grants 10 sec immunity to stun, daze, knockdown, fear, and root.

Creeps are lacking every form of permanent immunity.


Rework Sword halls of Dol Guldur – to be a PvMP arena:

Arena mode - 3v3 - for the reward of 500 commendation and infamy - all skills and potions are alloved, in 1 group cannot be two player from the same class (like group of 3 burgular or warg), if the fight lasts longer than 3 minutes then players begin to damaging from anfear cloud. Battles can be done in freeps vs creeps, or freeps vs freeps, or creeps vs creeps. From skills remowed the requirement that evil aliggment needed to use (like nvocation of elbereth, hunter traps… etc).

Battle mode - battle of 10 players against each other - heals and buff skills workin only on self, Aoe skills damaging every other player, also skills working on everyone (except ones with genus requirement, likemonster track items, and cry of the predator) from 10 players the frist 5 dead not earn anything the others earn:
6 - 250 infamy and commendation
7 - 500 infamy and commendation
8 - 750 infamy and commendation
9 - 1000 infamy and commendation
10 -1000 infamy and commendation – and title: Survivor of the Sword halls

In general:
-matery trait at creep corruption trait era useless, they give too less amount (same after moria?) so they must give more or just reworked to every corruption give some % of outgoing damage, maybe 7%

Freeps can earn their armour without pvmp ranks coz that is not luxury, so why creep skills have now rank requirement – or at least thei mustbe lower, and earned without commendations (fight without arms against an armed enemy to earn arms)




Also i think later must be introduced som new creep classes as saurons armies was much diversed than armies of free peolpes, so just a few idea: Goblin Warg rider (one character – like the npc); Goblin Sapper (after throwing his pot fighting with 1 spear ofc); Goblin Shieldbearer; Sorcerer (race of man, a tactical dps class) – also i think arent problem if more class have the same role, coz all class have a secondary role, like warleader and defiler are both healer, buth defailer are debuffing, and, warleader surviving better if he begin targeted.

With new maps can introduce dourhand dwarf? morrowal? or easterling as cat master (ranged class with a pet), berserker (real melee aoe class), and rider (man riding on horse) ... etc.

Originally Posted by Leri927

-Reduce minstrels war speech healing with 80%, htey are in god mode now.

So back to pre-RoI? The idea was to get more people to want to play minstrels, I don't know about your server but on mine glff is always hungry for them and a -80% heal reduction in warspeech is just lulz. I could agree to a max of -50% heal reduction only in moors and only while in warspeech of course.

Originally Posted by Leri927

Reavers:
-Charge - now it is useable in combat with the same benefits
-Dying Rage - not kills the raever at the end (now arent worth the trait slot, also not the tp or rank)

Charge then becomes a short cooldown skill that will nearly guarantee escaping from death because of the immunities it gives. I think you missed the point on Dying Rage also, "dying" rage.

Originally Posted by Leri927

PvMp is now unbalanced and dont have any intresting new things after beginning of the game.
For this reason i think it need some rework.
For the balance:
-Reduce minstrels war speech healing with 80%, htey are in god mode now.
-Rework the blackarrows moving target skill to not be invincble against hunters, and be useful against tactical dps classes to, so it must give +40% evade and +30% resist chance
- Hunter’s camouflage now works in-combat, with the same cd

Creep classes need to update (wargs and spiders not, but others must have that)

Defiler:
-Defense of the drying mud – Remowes induction setbacks from defiler, have 15sec cd, dispelled ont he move, disabled in course stance.
-Blessing of Darkness – a stacking heal with a less pulses and induction (remove plz the useless previous skill) (this isnt requires trait, trait now giving Course of Darkness)
-Course Stance – have 10 sec induction, a very visible animation (freeps must see that and can interrupt that if defiler tries do that int he battle) (he must the outof the battle), the stance removes induction from courses but still must be in place to use them, and they are all 5target Aoe, with 10m radius (Except Course of Darkness, it makes that skill to Improwed Course of Darkness),(alters Fire Gourd to Improwed Fire Gourd), diseable skills: Fungal spores, Blessing of Darkness, Fell sacrifise, Efflorescence.
-Course of Darkness – have the same cd, and channels duration like old Blessing of Darkness, and rquires that trait. It s dealing 200 shadow damage in every second until the duration of the channel, channels cannot have sat backs by damage but can be interrupted, it is rooting his target (root isnt braking on damage) (champ can still escape with blod rage, and burg can also escape with addle)
-Improwed Course of Darkness – Also gives +3K finesse to every incoming attack
-Improwed Fire Gourd – Frist damage is doubled, Dot is stacking 3 times, cd removed

Trait: Master of Darkness – Enables skill Course of Darkness, and balessing of darkness now have a slef heal compnent. (replaces trait blessing of darkness)

Defilers are nowadays useless for debuffing, coz lng inductions, and coz debuffs arent aoe, they are lacking a brust heal (what is can be effectively sustained on 1 target). The blessing of darkness skill is useless: 1 very visible so immediatly interrupted, or every freep damages the defended target-> defiler dead, 2 morale transfer, so low morale target still can be one-shooted, 3 have a small animation so it is often too late, 4 disbales healing

Reavers:
-Charge - now it is useable in combat with the same benefits
-Dying Rage - not kills the raever at the end (now arent worth the trait slot, also not the tp or rank)
-Gut Punch and Improwed Gut Punch - cd reduced to 3 sec
-Mark of Fear - Marks the target (like captains mark) and gives back 15% of the damage as healing

- Trait: Improwed Hamstring – Gives -50%inc healing to debuff of the hamstring skill.
- Trait: Burning Blades – now has +15% fire damage, and +40% crit multilpier
-Trait: Extended Reach – Now gives +3 aoe skill Target, and reduces power cost and cooldown of Aoe damaging skills

Rework some reawers skill, charge must be same but useable in combat, to be more useful, also reavers must have some survival skills or lot more dps, they do less dps than a glory champion and are squishierNeed out going DAMAGE not out going disturbance. And need to reduce gut punch cd to 3sec to be a real threat.

Blackarrow:
-Blackarrows now cant reach 1K dps on grammsfoot slugs! so they must have some more dps, in general they must have +15% crit multiplier, and +15% ranged damage
-Moving traget – it is now gives +40% evade rating,gives +40% evade rating, and +30% resist chance
-Keen eye – itis now gives +10m (both skills & auto attacks) max range for the blackarrow (slowly building up, so after the 10 shot, at frist shot it isnt giving max range benefits) (it is needed , coz caster characters can esaily kill the 75% slowed blackarrow) so bonus giving:
1 shot: +1m max range, +3% ranged damage, -7,5% induction, -10% movment speed
2 shot: +2m max range, +6% ranged damage, -15% induction, -20% movment speed
3 shot: +3m max range, +10% ranged damage, -22,5% induction, -30% movement speed
4 shot: +4m max range, +15% ranged damage, -30% induction, -40% movmenet speed
5 shot: +5m max range, +21% ranged damage, -37,5% induction, -50% movement speed
6 shot: +6m max range, +30% ranged damage, -45% induction, - 60% movement speed
7 shot: +7m max range, +45% ranged damage, -52,5% induction, -70% movement speed
8 shot: +8m max range, +58% ranged damage, -60% induction, -80% movement speed
9 shot: +9m max range, +79% ranged damage, -67.5% induction, -90% movement speed
10 shot: +10m max range, +100% ranged damage, -75% induction, root
With these that skill will make a real bonus for the price of moving.
-Center: now not channeled skill, instead that, heals 125 power every 1 seconds for 30 seconds

Trait: Deadly Aim – Gives 5K critical rating, +35% crit multiliper, and same finesse as before
Trait: Enhanced Skill Headshot – now it gives 100% knockdown chance
Trait: Poisoned Arrows – (replaces trait: feel the burn) All ranged skills (except flaming arrow, and scream shafts) deal now acid damage, and has 5% chance to apply a Dot to you enemy that can be cured and deals 50 damage every seconds for 45 sec (coz one of blackarrows strongest enemy, the runkeeper can absorb fire damage)
Trait: never tire-> skill - never tire –Heals restores 2000 power on an ally, 30 sec cd (replacing the most useless skill/trait in the game the trait: steadfast barrage)

Warleader:
Trait: Snap out of it -> snap out of it – cd removed, it is now gives 1 min immunity to stuns, dazes, and knockdowns
Trait: Purge -> Purge – removes stuns, dazes, knockdown, fears, and roots from all group members within 40m , and grants 10 sec immunity to stun, daze, knockdown, fear, and root.

Creeps are lacking every form of permanent immunity.


Rework Sword halls of Dol Guldur – to be a PvMP arena:

Arena mode - 3v3 - for the reward of 500 commendation and infamy - all skills and potions are alloved, in 1 group cannot be two player from the same class (like group of 3 burgular or warg), if the fight lasts longer than 3 minutes then players begin to damaging from anfear cloud. Battles can be done in freeps vs creeps, or freeps vs freeps, or creeps vs creeps. From skills remowed the requirement that evil aliggment needed to use (like nvocation of elbereth, hunter traps… etc).

Battle mode - battle of 10 players against each other - heals and buff skills workin only on self, Aoe skills damaging every other player, also skills working on everyone (except ones with genus requirement, likemonster track items, and cry of the predator) from 10 players the frist 5 dead not earn anything the others earn:
6 - 250 infamy and commendation
7 - 500 infamy and commendation
8 - 750 infamy and commendation
9 - 1000 infamy and commendation
10 -1000 infamy and commendation – and title: Survivor of the Sword halls

In general:
-matery trait at creep corruption trait era useless, they give too less amount (same after moria?) so they must give more or just reworked to every corruption give some % of outgoing damage, maybe 7%

Freeps can earn their armour without pvmp ranks coz that is not luxury, so why creep skills have now rank requirement – or at least thei mustbe lower, and earned without commendations (fight without arms against an armed enemy to earn arms)




Also i think later must be introduced som new creep classes as saurons armies was much diversed than armies of free peolpes, so just a few idea: Goblin Warg rider (one character – like the npc); Goblin Sapper (after throwing his pot fighting with 1 spear ofc); Goblin Shieldbearer; Sorcerer (race of man, a tactical dps class) – also i think arent problem if more class have the same role, coz all class have a secondary role, like warleader and defiler are both healer, buth defailer are debuffing, and, warleader surviving better if he begin targeted.

With new maps can introduce dourhand dwarf? morrowal? or easterling as cat master (ranged class with a pet), berserker (real melee aoe class), and rider (man riding on horse) ... etc.

camo in combat with the same cooldown? I kind of dont get the point too much. you can't move in camo...so If you pop it in combat they will know where you are and pop you right out.

I will say that spiders to need a little update. They are almost where they need to be, but DPS wise they are a little low. Parses right now put spider DPS against a light armor class around 220 DPS. Against today's healing and freep DPS that is a little low and should be closer to 400-500 dps to stay close to the pack.

As far as Arenas go. You can't have the same number of freeps vs the same number of creeps. Freeps will win the majority of the time due to their survival skills. Especially in group. They are designed that way.

Reaver charge in combat is a little much. IF you want it in combat, increase the cooldown to 1 minute. I would say that reavers need a lot more survivability.

Originally Posted by PolarBear

So back to pre-RoI? The idea was to get more people to want to play minstrels, I don't know about your server but on mine glff is always hungry for them and a -80% heal reduction in warspeech is just lulz. I could agree to a max of -50% heal reduction only in moors and only while in warspeech of course.



Charge then becomes a short cooldown skill that will nearly guarantee escaping from death because of the immunities it gives. I think you missed the point on Dying Rage also, "dying" rage.

Well on E we have more minis then we know what to do with. Typical raid has 4+ minis and 4+ captains

Originally Posted by PolarBear

So back to pre-RoI? The idea was to get more people to want to play minstrels, I don't know about your server but on mine glff is always hungry for them and a -80% heal reduction in warspeech is just lulz. I could agree to a max of -50% heal reduction only in moors and only while in warspeech of course.

Yeah, now everywhere you turn there's minstrels in war speech.



Charge then becomes a short cooldown skill that will nearly guarantee escaping from death because of the immunities it gives. I think you missed the point on Dying Rage also, "dying" rage.

Yeah, stick with charge as it is. But dying rage doesn't give a death immunity (AFAIK) like last stand does.

No matter what happens, the majority of the PvP population will still suck and need the store or npcs to get kills. So no matter what happens, the moors will always suck. Blame the players too.

no point in making a thread trying to provide some balance to the moors because it won't happen, nor will any quality suggestions be heeded. Also its mostly Turbine's fault since a lot of quality players left due to their mismanagement of content, I mean i'd say a fair number of players now are blind to the issues in the game, I mean the same threads crop up every month by new people discovering severe faults of the game. They will ask for countless changes that could save the moors and make pvmp more fun and entertaining but it all falls on deaf ears. I mean its debatable on some servers that their pvmp could even really rebound if by some act of god Turbine actually made it into something worth while, since their population of pvmp players has been decimated by the attraction of new games, hoping for a better place then what the moors in lotro has become.

Anyways they should just delete any thread that gives ideas on improving the moors, because I have a hard time stomaching people trying to help the devs make the game better only to be blatantly ignored.

Also my apologies as this is probably my more harsher bashes at Turbine, whom I'm sure is filled with good people (no sarcasm). I'm just tired of this.

Just in case someone comes around saying I should quit the game, I have already I just loiter around on the forums for the very off chance things have changed for the better.

Camuflage in combat can be a life saver, coz if u arent taargeted u can get out from stealt only by melee aoe skill, or if the enemy standing too long on your hiding place. (like if Ba fires out his moving target u can go stealth,also this can save u in raid vs raid fight where are many targets and creeps are lacking aoe skills,so u have great chance to survive this) Yes this will never be so good like Desperate flight, you can never escape with this at 10 morale, from the attack of 5 wargs, to show them this isnt fair play, and they will got no infamy... if df works, hunters never dye, or give infamy, that is not a life saver skill (especially if u have many dots) his is a fleeing skill for cowards and star huggers

For the charge skill - now it is only outcombat useful reavershave no ranged (ohh wait have one withlong cd) ranged skills, thei are always kited... it would be normal if they can run faster. SO if a reaver attacking a freep raid it has near 100%chance to dye, cozhe cant get out, he will slowed and "cc" ed, in the same time champion is back to his group and healed full.

Dyeing rage - now this is a completly useless skill (or mostly useless), if u try to use on a burg he will use hips , and u will simply die ... etc., it has long cooldown. So wait how mush survival skills champs and burgulars have? and reavers... yes they need one. Also dyeing rage not defends the attacks from behind, so useless in fleeing. Tell me a situation where u can won the figth with this skill, and not without this.

In ettens are many problems with those tankstrels... the problem is not simply the ability to heal himself, and do decent damage, they can do both in same time - like shiald gaurdians and wardens seems to be avle to survive the apocalipse, but they cant kill you unless u fight with em for 5 min... until the time they can kill u u can run trough ettens from grams to gv XD. SO what u want remove (not all but most) of self heals from war speech, or remove the dps... i think this primarly a dps stance, so i dont understand why u have self heals there. So u want godmode?^^

Originally Posted by Delmore

As far as Arenas go. You can't have the same number of freeps vs the same number of creeps. Freeps will win the majority of the time due to their survival skills. Especially in group. They are designed that way.

Reaver charge in combat is a little much. IF you want it in combat, increase the cooldown to 1 minute. I would say that reavers need a lot more survivability.

Creeps can won in 1v1. they buff each other much stronger than freeps, so in 3v3 they have more chance.

Have u seen a champion with sprint both traited and maxed legacy? we have one at our server, his name is masterkobe, everyone thinks his name must be sprinterkobe... never slowed (and thanksfully fro store potions never cc ed) he just run trough the raid cast 1 aoe skill on run and run away, so mean no harm, yes champs can escape.. and other melee classes must have the ability to escape a sucessful fight. alyo what can do a melee dps class if it can be cc ed and slowed all of the time, they must have this.

I thought this was supposed to improve PvP?

Yes i hope, that in a far day a developer will read this....

Originally Posted by PolarBear

So back to pre-RoI? The idea was to get more people to want to play minstrels, I don't know about your server but on mine glff is always hungry for them and a -80% heal reduction in warspeech is just lulz.

Yes, back to pre-RoI when minstrels were still op. After RoI they were godmode, and by defending minstrels you front yourself as an easymoder. There is NO challenge in playing a minstrel, unless your gear is terrible and your skill likewise.

Originally Posted by stoffi

Yes, back to pre-RoI when minstrels were still op. After RoI they were godmode, and by defending minstrels you front yourself as an easymoder. There is NO challenge in playing a minstrel, unless your gear is terrible and your skill likewise.

People really don't understand the meaning of the word "overpowered" as demonstrated in this post its thrown around way to easily.

What PvMP needs....

A dev...

Originally Posted by Daec

People really don't understand the meaning of the word "overpowered" as demonstrated in this post its thrown around way to easily.

What PvMP needs....

A dev...

Not only that Daec but people seem to think that freep nerfs are the way to go instead of creep buffs or even rework. RK's, minis, LM's all seem the same to creeps because honestly where is the creep version of any of those? So instead of saying "OMG X is OP NERF PLZ", why not be demanding for a class that plays the same role (tactical nuker) on creep side?

I've love to see them put BA evade down to 50% and add 40% tact mit or so. It would be an advantage to BA's but give us non tact classes at least a chance to land a hit. Playing a champ it sucks to see them pop evade because the only skills that ever make it through only hit for 200 dmg!

In combat camo would be pretty OP and abused....I don't like that idea though I could be swayed.

Dying rage needs to get the run speed put down to +25% or less. It wouldn't bother me if they improved it a bit as long as I don't have to see dying run away all the time.

Minstrels need a major nerf. Most OP class out there by far. I just don't think they should be able to hit over 2k even.

I'd like to see charge made available in combat but maybe the run speed slowed down to +25%. In combat with 200% run speed would just make for more running away. I'd also like to see champ sprint changed to the same as what in combat charge would be (including the immunities unless they change cbr).

On my server (snowbourne) we have a champion Materkobe, who is making this, with permanenet run speed buff and stor immunity just running... most of creeps think his name is wrong he must be sprinterkobe...

Also for melee class runspeed bonus is must have especially if casters (alias kiters) have runspeed bonus too (like runekeeper have). Naturally this gives an opportunity to survive the combat like after attacking a freep raid they have a minimal (coz there are a lot hunter) chance to escape and survive.

Minstrel is Op,but not for dmg, not for survival ability (there ar a lot of classes wht do greater dmg, or survive much harder hits), it is op because minstrel can do both in same time. So warspeech in warspeech minstrels must lose theyr heal ability.