Thread: New Creep and new to PVP

Hi All

I am eager to give MP a try but have a few questions.

I cannot really get into a non-humanoid character so warg / weavers are out, and there is something about the reaver that doesn't really appeal, so that leaves Black Arrow, Warleader or Defiler.

Are any of these suitable for a beginner? A warleader isnt actually expected to lead a raid, right?

Are there any specific playstyles that are used with these classes - eg Black Arrow is all about kiting? Warleader plays like a captain?

Also, given the recent commendation change do any of these classes suffer as a result?

I really do not want to PVE so would be willing to spend some Turbine Points on some skills to allow me to jump in and PVP, would the cost be particularly high for one class over the other?

I have heard about getting maps - how is this done and is it a vital component for starting to PVP?

Basically I want a break from Freep PVE and would like to be able to jump in PVP straight away, die a lot but maybe sometimes take a freep out with me - is this possible in the Ettenmoors in its current shape?

Thoughts / advice very much appreciated!

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

I cannot really get into a non-humanoid character so warg / weavers are out, and there is something about the reaver that doesn't really appeal, so that leaves Black Arrow, Warleader or Defiler.

Warleader has good survivability, self heals and buffs but is low on damage. Defiler is a healer and debuff/DoT, they are good in 1v1 if you can play them right, but their burst damage is very low.

The problem is that unless you are groupped you wont get infamy/comms for healing, only for kills and the ammount you get is based on the damage done. So if you roll WL or Def you are basically ought to grouping(at low ranks at least).

It depends on the state of PvMP on your server. On my server 80% of time we are down to TA/STAB/WTAB/OC pew pew, so BA would be your choice here i think.

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

Also, given the recent commendation change do any of these classes suffer as a result?

Yeah, all but wargs are having rought times now in the beginning. At R0-R5 you are basically useless in 1v1, your survivability is close to 0 so as your damage. Of course you can buy your skills from Store, but you cant buy audacity and Battlefield Promotions... Every time you go to earn some comms by questing you will be ganked by freep renown hunters unless you play on low pop server or night/morning hours.

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

I really do not want to PVE so would be willing to spend some Turbine Points on some skills to allow me to jump in and PVP, would the cost be particularly high for one class over the other?

I have heard about getting maps - how is this done and is it a vital component for starting to PVP?

1 rank of audacity costs 6000 comms, 1 skill 2000 comms, 1 trait 1500 comms.

For the solo kill of mid rating freep you will get 50-60 comms. But as i wrote above you wont be able to solo kill anyone till at least R5 and even there you must be warg and he must be hunter or freep player must suck badly.

If you will just run with BA and pew pew with some other guys you will get 1-15 cooms per kill on average. So...

Maps are not vital, but they help you a lot. They are basically insta travel to different point on map (there are 3 kinds of maps with shared cd). You get maps by completing quests.

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

Basically I want a break from Freep PVE and would like to be able to jump in PVP straight away, die a lot but maybe sometimes take a freep out with me - is this possible in the Ettenmoors in its current shape?

Thoughts / advice very much appreciated!

If you want to jump into PvMP roll a freep. Creeps require a lot of work and the frustration of how useless you are at low ranks is big.

I'll add onto what the earlier post said with some of my experience as a WL. I'm not the most experienced so ask others and use what works for you. As a WL you will be sought after for groups for your bubble and in-combat AOE rez. The banners are also handy if your're in a fairly static situation. BAs are also sought out for groups but there are many more BAs available than WLs. Our heals are OK but we are reactive healers- we do not have the HoT that the Defiler has. The defiler has an out of combat rez while ours can be used in combat (traited- 6 Min CD). The "purge" skill is also very handy- allows your group (up to 6) to shake off all stuns/slows and provides a 10s immunity to them- it's like having a short "brand" that you can use in combat.

I don't know which server you are on so my experience on Brandy may not match yours. Normally in a group of 6 we will have 1x WL and 1x Def or a combination of the two depending on who is available. The WL "stances" are a big part of the their healing output and available at R6. Get the healing stance (Commander's stance) early if you can- skip the DPS stance (Brawler's stance) early as it is mainly used for when you are solo, tanking NPCs or healing while running. WLs are very good at getting aggro and keeping NPCs pinned to them whenever you PvE or flip a keep. Similar to a freep Captain the WL makes a group better. Using the "aura of command" gives your group +25% DPS and -10% attack duration. "Mobilize" also allows the whole group to run 35% faster out of combat.

WLs unfortunately have a "bug" that may occur and may cause your whole craid to logoff- you become unable to fire any skills or take any damage- but you may be able to move. Normally I have to crash the game, relog the computer and relog into Lotro. This has happened twice to me in the same night. NEVER use "aura of protection" unless you are solo or told to do so.

For any creep I suggest you read the Monster Manual- it has been recently updated and is a great source of info:

http://dailystats.theblackappendage....monster-manual

Good luck on joining creepside!

I suggest you roll a Reaver just to farm some commendations from PvE stuff before you have your main toon! For that go here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...05-Reaver-Tips

Maps are SUPER important!
Not to mention that getting maps also gives Commendations 1000+ at a time! And helps you do more PvE which gives more Com/Inf … by that time you are probably ready for PvP with the maps

As a Defiler It only started to get good when I hit R5/R6 (R7 now). Until then just try to heal high rank Creeps because they can actually kill something, and just throw in an attack whenever you can to get a share (though however small) of the Inf/Com … and built a reputation! At that rank you don’t have many heals so you probably won’t be able to help any low rank creeps much.

After that it’s a matter of building a reputation among Creeps! At this point I honestly don’t care about Inf/Com (not gonna keep playing for too much longer) and just want to Deny Freeps From Getting Renown!
I heal anything that moves and in return have the wrath of freeps on me … but most creeps do what they can (Bubble/disarm) to help me out.

P.S. if you want to rank the fastest ... go Warg /BA

Thank you all for the replies - I am slightly torn at the moment as I have a 75 Captain so might take to the warleader more easily but then the Black arrow will be something different and so possibly more interesting for me.

I will have a read of the monster manual, and then probably the best thing to do is just get out there and experiment (whilst not wasting commendations or TP) and remembering that I will be in for a rocky ride!

If it helps - my freep server is Laurelin so would want to go creepside there as well.

Any more comments / advice gratefully received.

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

Are there any specific playstyles that are used with these classes - eg Black Arrow is all about kiting? Warleader plays like a captain?

BA = Ranged "dps"
WL = heals and res (very low dps)
Def = heals/debuff (blight is VERY good in almost any situation)

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

Also, given the recent commendation change do any of these classes suffer as a result?

Yes. Every class is really bad for a long time now. If you cannot feed them commendations (i.e. high rank creep or farming freep) you're stuck for a long time.

Essential stuff
Skills = 2000 Comms
Trait = 1500 Comms
Corruptions = 1000 Comms
Audacity = 6000 commendations (36k for maxed out)

Non-essential stuff
Skins = 7500 Commendations

You can get your first skill as r3 if you cannot feed commendations. Your 2nd skill will be available late r3 or early r4 and it will take until late r6 until you're semi-decent (that is providing you work on maps, more on that later)

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

I really do not want to PVE so would be willing to spend some Turbine Points on some skills to allow me to jump in and PVP, would the cost be particularly high for one class over the other?

I have heard about getting maps - how is this done and is it a vital component for starting to PVP?

If you wanna go p2w it's ~5k TP/creep to get half a decent creep and even then you're still not geared out properly. Starting out with no commendations you'll be looking at the following:

r0 = Cannon fodder
r1 = Cannon fodder
r2 = Cannon fodder
r3 = Cannon fodder
r4 = light dps but generally Cannon fodder
r5 = You should be able to kill easy targets but if they turn on you... you're dead
r6 = You should survive a frontal assault... for a while
r7 = etc

I'm sorry to say, but if you want to play PvP you need to do PvE in this game. The amount of commendations from the map deeds are important, especially if you just play one creep. The map deeds have three tiers worth 500/1000/1500 commendations per tier and maps are available for the following places:

Isendeep (mine)
Tirith Raw (Freep spawn)
Tol Ascarnen (Ruins in the middle)
Lumbercamp (camp in the south)
Lugazag (Creep spawn)

The maps are gained from doing quests. you need 10 quests for t1, 25 for t2 and 50 for t3. But those maps alone are worth 15k commendations which are VERY important to get, especially early on.

Originally Posted by TingaTinga

Basically I want a break from Freep PVE and would like to be able to jump in PVP straight away, die a lot but maybe sometimes take a freep out with me - is this possible in the Ettenmoors in its current shape?

At low ranks, No. At medium ranks... perhaps if you're a warg or up against a bad player. Sorry, that's the state of how balanced the moors is atm.


Your best option is to roll a warg (although you stated that you don't like the non-humanoid races). The stealth of the warg is priceless especially for low ranks. Playing a warg you might have some chance of getting away at lower ranks. If you wanna do only PvP, although you should get the maps for PvP advantage, your best bet would be getting into a raid... If you don't get into a raid, you're dead

Originally Posted by Chupakabara

Warleader has good survivability, self heals and buffs but is low on damage. Defiler is a healer and debuff/DoT, they are good in 1v1 if you can play them right, but their burst damage is very low.

The problem is that unless you are groupped you wont get infamy/comms for healing, only for kills and the ammount you get is based on the damage done. So if you roll WL or Def you are basically ought to grouping(at low ranks at least).

It depends on the state of PvMP on your server. On my server 80% of time we are down to TA/STAB/WTAB/OC pew pew, so BA would be your choice here i think.




Yeah, all but wargs are having rought times now in the beginning. At R0-R5 you are basically useless in 1v1, your survivability is close to 0 so as your damage. Of course you can buy your skills from Store, but you cant buy audacity and Battlefield Promotions... Every time you go to earn some comms by questing you will be ganked by freep renown hunters unless you play on low pop server or night/morning hours.




1 rank of audacity costs 6000 comms, 1 skill 2000 comms, 1 trait 1500 comms.

For the solo kill of mid rating freep you will get 50-60 comms. But as i wrote above you wont be able to solo kill anyone till at least R5 and even there you must be warg and he must be hunter or freep player must suck badly.

If you will just run with BA and pew pew with some other guys you will get 1-15 cooms per kill on average. So...

Maps are not vital, but they help you a lot. They are basically insta travel to different point on map (there are 3 kinds of maps with shared cd). You get maps by completing quests.




If you want to jump into PvMP roll a freep. Creeps require a lot of work and the frustration of how useless you are at low ranks is big.

why do you play??

If you are very social or have plans to join a respectable tribe Warleader or Defiler are options. If you will be soloing a lot I wouldn't play either as unless you buy heaps of TP using $ gaining any infamy with no traits/skills will be next to impossible. Black Arrow once you get r6 with fire trait and skirmisher stance you can do some gold tagging and even start soloing freeps. Don't get me wrong Black Arrow is a great group class as well but between the 3 only one able to solo and kill (defiler has no CC so freeps can run from 1v1's).

In case you do make a Black Arrow be sure to check out the monster manual. I made a big update to it after U6 and should give you an idea on what skills are worth saving up for and general solo / group strategies. If you plan to do this without buying TP... well I wish you luck Turbine has made it near impossible to make a new Creep these days as you will be as impotent as the 'Bird' by TR rez for a long time.

http://dailystats.theblackappendage....nt/black-arrow

Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos

why do you play??

Cuz I already have ranked up creep with skills, corrupts and aud. Why would new creeps start I dont know.