Thread: The reason Draigoch bugs in phase 3, or at least 1 of them.

My kin has identified 1 possible reason. If someone dies in Phase 3 and recieves a cappy rez, either Cry of Veng, or Escape from Darkness, Draigoch can bug once the claws are no longer attackable. We are not sure if this is because the rez is being accepted during a transition, ie draigoch's claws died and he flops to the ground, or he flys in the air, or some other, unknown trigger.

We are not saying that he will bug every time a cappy rez is used, but I have seen 5 confirmed uses of the cappy rez that have triggered this bug in Phase 3.

6 members of my kin haven't logged into the game in about week, because doing Draigoch on a weekly basis is about all we do raid wise. We are pretty casual and just enjoy getting together to do, this once fun raid, but no longer. I may move on myself if this isn't fixed soon.

Some sort of feedback from Turbine regarding this issue would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps I am blind, but I have scoured these forums, and see nothing solid from them regarding this issue.

edit: bolded and italicized a portion for the morons among us

Make that 6 confirmed cases of Cappy rez bugging him out in phase 3.

That is an interesting theory. There are a couple issues with cappy rez.

There is also that issue with cappy rezzes sending someone back to the beginning of an instance rather than them rezzing next to them.


We have noticed that it bugs if someone goes link dead during the raid and cannot get back in (if they temporarily lose internet)

Think you need to be more detailed. It is known that a Cry of Vengeance rez can send someone back to the beginning of an instance if the Captain is off the ground when it is cast, and that he can bug if anything aggroes on the rezzed person while he's out of the raid area, but I've never seen Escape from Darkness cause any sort of bug. I've used both rezzes (and am careful with CoV) in all phases of Draig at one point or another, and he's never bugged while I was on Captain.

If something is bugging after someone has died, maybe we need to look at what else is going on. Did the people who died have HoTs or DoTs on him? Have you rezzed with DNF or Rally in the same situations and had him *not* bug?

After 6 months, I'm not sure anyone can confirm anything about Draigoch. What one group is convinced causes a bug, a dozen others do every week without issue. It makes for a pretty funny PUG, though, when the leader lists off the dozens of things that people can't do/summon/skills they can't use....and he still bugs. And by funny I mean holy bacon, devs, can you please give GMs the power to auto-kill Draig when he's at 5% morale?

I don't know how most kin runs Draigoch but mine uses cappy heals for the tank on the head, there is *always* a captain in the raid.

I am sure we have used every conceivable rez in the raid and not had a bug, I guess we will have to start keeping track of the type of rez used for every raid.

Originally Posted by Pheriain

There is also that issue with cappy rezzes sending someone back to the beginning of an instance rather than them rezzing next to them.

That happens if the rezz is coming while the captain is in the air. in that case the game don't know where the position of the captain is, and rezz the other player to the beginning of the instance. this is not a draigoch only bug. (same can happen in the jup-phase on acid boss in othanc)

Regards
CA

No, i'd say this isn't the issue, when iv'e done with run either semi-pug or just with a bunch of weak, not-geared alts we hadm multiple deaths on phase 3, said deaths were alwayes being brought back up with captain rezzes i'd say that, that bug happening after said rez or during is a coincidence.

Oh and FYI:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...raigoch-to-bug

MT

Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod

That happens if the rezz is coming while the captain is in the air. in that case the game don't know where the position of the captain is, and rezz the other player to the beginning of the instance. this is not a draigoch only bug. (same can happen in the jup-phase on acid boss in othanc)

Regards
CA

Interesting, thanks for that explanation! It makes sense.

Does it happen when the defeated player presses the button, or when the Captain gets bounced immediately after using the rez skill? Probably the latter. If so, there's not much the player can to do avoid the bug - it's already bugged by the time the player gets the rez. If that's the case, it's something Turbine needs to fix on their end.

I never bugged out on my minstrel. But when I leveled up captain I bug out about half the time. I think though I've only used in-combat rez once. It's possible banner use may have done this but I've stopped using them when others told me to stop (draigoch causes superstitions).

I have been in a run that bugged out and definitely no one died or was rezzed. One of the smoothest runs ever and it bugged anyway.

Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod

That happens if the rezz is coming while the captain is in the air. in that case the game don't know where the position of the captain is, and rezz the other player to the beginning of the instance. this is not a draigoch only bug. (same can happen in the jup-phase on acid boss in othanc)

So just a wild guess - could something like that happen to Draigoch? In other words, he aggros on a mob, but that mob is in mid-air (bouncing), so he gets confused because the server can't provide a valid location?

I don't think characters are normally bouncing as he stands up, but I'm not sure. If Turbine's code has a operation that expects to get a location back, but it doesn't work when something is up in the air, that could cause all sorts of problems. Seems like there should be a work-aound, even if it's something like "try again 0.1 second later"...

Originally Posted by Frisco

Think you need to be more detailed. It is known that a Cry of Vengeance rez can send someone back to the beginning of an instance if the Captain is off the ground when it is cast, and that he can bug if anything aggroes on the rezzed person while he's out of the raid area, but I've never seen Escape from Darkness cause any sort of bug. I've used both rezzes (and am careful with CoV) in all phases of Draig at one point or another, and he's never bugged while I was on Captain.

If something is bugging after someone has died, maybe we need to look at what else is going on. Did the people who died have HoTs or DoTs on him? Have you rezzed with DNF or Rally in the same situations and had him *not* bug?

After 6 months, I'm not sure anyone can confirm anything about Draigoch. What one group is convinced causes a bug, a dozen others do every week without issue. It makes for a pretty funny PUG, though, when the leader lists off the dozens of things that people can't do/summon/skills they can't use....and he still bugs. And by funny I mean holy bacon, devs, can you please give GMs the power to auto-kill Draig when he's at 5% morale?

I think you need to learn to read.

Originally Posted by CorporalJohnny

I think you need to learn to read.

Let me see if I get it:

You came across 6 bugs, all of which happened in the same runs where a Captain rezzed in Phase 3. And hundreds of other people have used Captain rezzes in Phase 3 and not had him bug. Somehow, this is conclusive evidence that using a Captain rez (and only a Captain rez, not sure how Escape from Darkness differs from Rally!) can bug the instance.

Sounds like more mumbo-jumbo superstition like the guy above whose raid leader told him to not drop a banner.

If there were people dying in Phase 3 for 6 straight runs, I don't think Captain rezzes were the only common theme. For all you know, it was because the people dying had HoTs or DoTs up and he bugged while they were dead because he couldn't target them.

Or, if you wanted to be more clear, you could say whether the Captain rezzes sent the person back to the beginning of the instance, because that (which is something that really only happens with CoV or even RK rezzes) is much more cut and dry--the person has aggro but is out of the raid area. But I feel like this is an important piece of information that someone wouldn't leave out of an explanation, so I don't imagine this is the case.

Originally Posted by Frisco

Let me see if I get it:

You came across 6 bugs, all of which happened in the same runs where a Captain rezzed in Phase 3. And hundreds of other people have used Captain rezzes in Phase 3 and not had him bug. Somehow, this is conclusive evidence that using a Captain rez (and only a Captain rez, not sure how Escape from Darkness differs from Rally!) can bug the instance.

Sounds like more mumbo-jumbo superstition like the guy above whose raid leader told him to not drop a banner.

If there were people dying in Phase 3 for 6 straight runs, I don't think Captain rezzes were the only common theme. For all you know, it was because the people dying had HoTs or DoTs up and he bugged while they were dead because he couldn't target them.

Or, if you wanted to be more clear, you could say whether the Captain rezzes sent the person back to the beginning of the instance, because that (which is something that really only happens with CoV or even RK rezzes) is much more cut and dry--the person has aggro but is out of the raid area. But I feel like this is an important piece of information that someone wouldn't leave out of an explanation, so I don't imagine this is the case.

Wow, I'm amazed that you still don't comprehend. Go back and reread everything I typed. Then slap yourself a few times, and touch a hot stove and maybe, just maybe you'll get it.

Just to make it easy on you, here is a hint...

Originally Posted by CorporalJohnny

We are not saying that he will bug every time a cappy rez is used, but I have seen 5 confirmed uses of the cappy rez that have triggered this bug in Phase 3.

Originally Posted by CorporalJohnny

Wow, I'm amazed that you still don't comprehend. Go back and reread everything I typed. Then slap yourself a few times, and touch a hot stove and maybe, just maybe you'll get it.

Just to make it easy on you, here is a hint...

well, you ARE saying that the cappy res is one of the causes for him bugging (read title). Seeing as we don't know exactly how the mechanics behind the AI on draigoch works it could be a number of other things as well.
It COULD be something done in p1/p2 that takes effect in p3, it COULD be the tank standing slightly in the wrong place, it COULD be banners or pets, it COULD be jumping down in p1 and p2 into the arena, it COULD be someone being too close to the head when he flies up, it COULD be hots/dots on the person, it COULD be someone aggroing the head right before lift-off, it COULD be a cappy res (although seeing as how many times those have been used and only a handful of bugs that have supposedly been the result without taking into account other options i'd say it's unlikely) however, it COULD also be none of these.

Either you say it's the cause (what the title says) or you say it COULD be a cause

Actually, if you are saying that you found the one of the causes of the bug, then it would require that it happens every time that condition is met. As there are people that have successfully used the captain rez and not have it bug then it is not just a captain rez. That is not to say that a captain rez might not be part of it. One of the reasons that the Draigoch bug has not been addressed is that no one has been able to come up with something that causes him bug with 100% certainty. Until it is reliably reproduceable it is incredibly difficult to track down bugs.

Originally Posted by CorporalJohnny

Wow, I'm amazed that you still don't comprehend. Go back and reread everything I typed. Then slap yourself a few times, and touch a hot stove and maybe, just maybe you'll get it.

Just to make it easy on you, here is a hint...

This is almost as funny as when someone insults someone else for not being "intellagent".

Continue with the personal attacks, but as people have pointed out, you have no evidence other than coincidence that "the reason Draig bugs in phase 3" is because of a Captain rez. You could just as easily say that he bugs because someone *died* during phase 3, since that seems to be yet another common thread in all your failed runs. And I doubt the common threads stop there.

On one hand, it's nice that people are trying to figure out reasons he bugs. But on the other hand, there will no doubt be PUGs out there who tell the group "no pets, no stones, no banners, no rezzes, no stuns, no bleeds, no healing....pretty much you can only auto attack this whole fight. Also spin around in circles after every phase and equip your horseshoes."

Originally Posted by Frisco

Also spin around in circles after every phase and equip your horseshoes."

Dangit. I knew there was a reason they put the horseshoe in the game!!!! I shoulda notta trashed it. I'll bet it becomes Draigoch's horseshoe, on sale from the store for 599 tp, 1 hour use.

/bring out cookies and wine