I have been using conviction less and less recently simply because its a pain in the butt to build it manually and the masteries are put to better used on dow/eob/aggression. The heal from it is pretty nice but it's hardly ever useful and not worth it for a 5 length gambit. If you're sitting idle and you hit conviction then that by definition defeats the purpose of it, if your group needs heals 2.4k heal in 24sec is hardly a game changer.
IMO the skill needs to be buffed a little and needs to be made less of a rotational skill and more a light group emergency skill .
I was thinking since it's thematically a group skill we either make half of the heal up front ~1.2k and the hot stays the same for the full 24sec duration.
Another way would be to make it put a +5% inc heal buff on the group and everything else stays the same. That way it could become a semi group emergency skill when the entire group is low on morale.
Both the above wouldn't make it spam abusable as we need to do other more important things in our normal rotation, specially if we scale the power cost up by a bit. The first solution also in a way resembles guardian's shield wall. Often I find myself at full morale but my dpsers taking AoE dmg and I feel stupid hitting conviction for them as by the 3rd tick either the healer is able to make the group stable or they're all dead. This way I'd be more useful to the group.
What do you guys think? How often do you used conviction?
I use Convic All the time. Foundry run's to ToO wings. Even more so I have to use it while Im kitting multi Saruman's.
Maybe your not in the right fights to feel the full use of it.... Yet? I mean WOW ya dont like it?
I use Convic All the time. Foundry run's to ToO wings. Even more so I have to use it while Im kiting multi Saruman's.
Why on earth would you build conviction when you can get off 2x as many EoBs in the same time period, and when EoB will heal you more, and generate more threat on your pursuers?
i can see using conviction if you have the way of the shield legendary but in itself i believe it is a total waste. Just build EoB and shield up instead of conviction.
I use Convic All the time. Foundry run's to ToO wings. Even more so I have to use it while Im kitting multi Saruman's.
Maybe your not in the right fights to feel the full use of it.... Yet? I mean WOW ya dont like it?
I do every on level content there is and I don't like conviction. It used to be one of our awesome skills now it's just meh. Why use conviction while kiting when you can hit 2x DoW and get nice long crit/mit buff with massive evade(which is the most important avoidance for kiting) instead of a lousy ~3k heal over 24sec? The threat leach is the same and don't say that the conviction heal is of any great use to the group, its not awefull but just not worth a 5 length gambit IMO specially considering the masteries required for it could be used for other more effective gambits.
Might be a bit weak, yes, but I still use it quite a lot. What I do in order to not have to waste so many masteries though, is to make sure that potency is triggered, so that I can get conviction in to battle memory.
Conviction helps offset AOE/environmental damage/damage from adds, so your healer doesnt have to worry so much about healing non-tanks. It also does provide a buff to your group...but yes, its not really practical as a main self-heal in groups...
That being said, I think buffing Conviction might end up making it too strong for solo play (and Moors play, which is often correlative, I think?), where its another stackable self-heal that doesnt use the same masteries as the 2-1 line. Plus, remember, its got two legacies that boost it up to 20%. And its one of your only HOT options while in Reck.
IMO, the heals ok, but the threat xfer should be better. As was mentioned, DoW has a great evade buff, xfers the same threat, and its only a 4 length gambit.
I would prefer the heal to be higher or some kind of added buff. Conviction has always been a cornerstone in the wardens arsenal but it seems a lot less powerful in comparison to how everything else was scaled. I think however that all major skill changes or tweaks are done until RoR. I think we have what the devs want us to have and that will be that.
Can anybody give a good solid reason for Conviction to be buffed? Bigger heal, why? We have dedicated healers for that. Bigger physical offense buff, +10% increase isn't good enough? A threat down that lets your entire group go absolutely nuts with DPS and no consequences isn't good enough either?
Can anybody give a good solid reason for Conviction to be buffed? Bigger heal, why? We have dedicated healers for that. Bigger physical offense buff, +10% increase isn't good enough? A threat down that lets your entire group go absolutely nuts with DPS and no consequences isn't good enough either?
Forum wardens = never happy.
I'm not unhappy, & hope I didn't come off that way.
The various stance-based buffs seem reasonable, IMO.
The ShFiSh line is threat transfer oriented, so it seems odd to me that Conviction's threat transfer its the same as DoW, even though it's a longer gambit in the same line, thats all. <shrug>
But the heal creates additional aggro, so it's not really the same. When I say not happy, I just find it strange that so many wardens still want more, more, more... it never ends.
But the heal creates additional aggro, so it's not really the same. When I say not happy, I just find it strange that so many wardens still want more, more, more... it never ends.
I say reduce the animation time on DC and Dance of War too. That #### takes forever, and increase the forced taunt.
I using convicton anytime when is not active (use it every 15-20 sec and u never lose agro with some agro skills, noone have bigger agro than warden if is good warden)
BTW: in dps stance use conv every 10 sec in DPS group when u have in group 5x DPS all will have +10% dmg boost+heal its tested and so good.
Conviction is still a good skill, but its much more situational now than it was before. Before RoI, conviction was good to weave into any tanking rotation. The threat xfer + AoE HoT was too good to pass up. Now Maddening Strike, Dance of War, and EoB are buffed and it doesn't look quite as attractive. But there are some things being left out from this equation. Conviction takes about 3.5s to build and execute. 2xEoB is about 9s, and DoWx2 is 10.5s. You'll certainly get more benefit out of the EoB (threat, healing) or the DoW (+Evade, +crit defense), but you've paid more in terms of time. Conviction is a very high return time/benefit skill. It can also be built at range more easily than DoW.
The same can be said of using Safeguard/Celebration of Skill vs. Restoration. You will get more healing and a +block buff using Safeguard and Celebration of skill than Restoration. But Restoration is only 3.5s to build with masteries, where SG/CoS will take 5.5s to do the same thing. The HPS for restoration is therefore greater than SG/CoS, though is still lacks the +block buff. My solution is to alternate Restoration with SG/CoS.
Horus hit on a good point, Conviction may look a little weak in determination, but it is a very powerful group buffing skill in Recklessness and Assailment.
I think the usefulness of Conviction has more to do with other variables than the Warden itself (in terms of healing at least). As morale pools have risen across the board, the skill has become less effective of a heal. It's still worth using imho as any heal is a good heal, but I don't use it as much as i had before. I used to almost always just keep it up in any fight. Now, however I find the heal to be situational.
As for the threat component, there's no reason to use it over DoW. None.
I'm just looking at it from the perspective of a leveling warden who doesn't have EoB. Yes, I'd like to have an easier time with threat, but I can be patient. Just seems odd that both Conv & DoW are in the threat xfer line, but even though they're different length gambits the threat xfer is the same while the secondary buff effects seem pretty equal. <shrug>
Some decent points here, but I wonder about the gambit execution time difference. How do you get such a big one?
Conviction takes 5 builders, not 4. Manual builders will take longer - period.
With masteries, they should take just equal amounts of time if you do [Mastery][builder][mastery]:
If you want to do a quick x2, then you'll need to fire a Potency gambit first and a BM last, regardless of what you do in the middle.
So is the amount of threat generated from Conviction's heal significant enough to make it more effective/valuable than DoW's evade buff, or do the devs think they should have the same primary threat xfer effect based on the effective speed they can be built with?
Again, OP doesnt like convic? WoW I cant wrap my sword around that.
Making statements like that without any argument or proof doesn't make you sound smart, so please stop doing that. I never said I disliked it, I merely said that it's weak compared to its counterparts and since it's a 5 length gambit I would never build it manually and use the masteries for better alternatives.
Please tell me why do you PREFER it OVER other gambits such as dow/eob/aggression, and I'm talking about t2 orthanc settings here. I've tanked foundry without a shield. Conviction is not worth the masteries and not viable to build manually since it's a 5 length gambit. I need a greater incentive to build it either way.
I do not prefer Conviction OVER DoW and others. I use it ON TOP OF other skills. Evade buffs are now more readily available. using Potency / Battle Memory I fire off
2x DoW
2x SoD
2x CoS
once aggro has settled down a bit. That gives me enough time that in my second rotation through the available Masteries I can use Conviction for the Group Heal. Threat transfer and generation is the secondary aspect of this skill for me now. Keeping a decent HoT on the group coupled with Captain heals and healer's group heals is usually enough to allow the healer to focus more on me which is how I like it when tanking. As long as everyone is standing in the right positions (no AoE), potting their effects, etc. ,etc. the group should not really need too much attention from the healers.
In the first stages of the fights I will use the lesser but longer versions of the self buffs to allow me to focus on Threat where I use the masteries for EoBs and then Aggresions. War Cry, Preserve and Impressive Flourish are quick to build manually and, combined, provide enough protection for the earlier stages of pulls.
So, with extended duration on buffs these days, Conviction can still play a part in out extended rotations (i.e. a rotation is now longer than just the cd time of masteries) and provide justifiable benefits without having to trade off anything else for it.
If you wrote in this topic "to hell with conviction as it is right now, I can do EoB all the time" then please stop playing this class and giving wardens the bad reputation they have.
It doesn't only heal, it also buffs you and increases threat. Using the gambits properly you wouldn't have any issues with how much heals it gives out.
I've tanked lightning boss solo and later the healer told me that my morale was more stable then some guardian he healed.
There are much bigger issues with warden then increasing the heal of conviction. It's if need be heal for the whole group, a little help to the healer, if you want to heal yourself then use restoration, you can also knock down a target with it.
Lol if you guys bothered to read anything I wrote in the first I'd be grateful but I can't expect much from the forums except immediate negativity backed up not by arguments and facts but BS.
The simple point is that in a normal rotation it's barely helpful and when your group needs heals by the 3rd tick the healer has done his job and kept the group or the group is half dead. Most of the dps/support classes deaths in raids are from 1 shots or big 4-5k hits or something stupid like standing in puddles which is not in the slightest way mitigated by conviction heals. As a 5 length gambit it shouldn't be "one of those little things that add up" but a "hey group needs stabilizing hit a conviction" specially when there's other gambits that provide greater self benefits that would ensure that the tank is sturdy allowing the healer to focus more on group heals.
Originally Posted by Gandalphor
I've tanked lightning boss solo and later the healer told me that my morale was more stable then some guardian he healed.
Most irrelevant piece of information in the thread so far.
Lol if you guys bothered to read anything I wrote in the first I'd be grateful but I can't expect much from the forums except immediate negativity backed up not by arguments and facts but BS.
I did read through the whole thread. I agree that Conviction is not the cornerstone of my Rotation that it was pre-RoI. All I'm saying is that I am still able to find a use for it in my wider rotations.
For spike damage like the special attacks from Saruman clones or AoE's from the man himself you wont really help. but healing up some of the damage caused by the time it took to move out of an Acid or Shadow pool is still useful. I even touched on this in my reply:
Originally Posted by Ravenstride
As long as everyone is standing in the right positions (no AoE), potting their effects, etc. ,etc.
The title of your thread seemed to have implied a question. Which invites answers. I believe mine was crammed full of useful information and facts. But you seem more about stating opinions so let me state mine:
Weak is relative. The gambit system always engendered 1 Gambit to rule them all. At first it was Conviction, then it was Aggression, then it was EoB. Now we're at the EoB+Aggression is King stage. Buffing Conviction might put it back up at the top of the pile but I don't feel the need for it. I can still make efficient use of it today.
*This is all in the ToO T2 context. The more you widen that context the more useful Conviction becomes.
I've tanked lightning boss solo and later the healer told me that my morale was more stable then some guardian he healed.
Most irrelevant piece of information in the thread so far.
About me tanking it solo... probably. About being good for keeping you alive... not so much. Some of the mini healing skills give you less then your conviction gambit with the legacy on your wepon for it and blue traited with it's capstone. And EoB can be stacked only so many times. So yes, conviction and restoration are the next two gambits for building for keeping you alive while tanking and making it easyer for the healer and letting him heal the rest of the group also.
I did read through the whole thread. I agree that Conviction is not the cornerstone of my Rotation that it was pre-RoI. All I'm saying is that I am still able to find a use for it in my wider rotations.
For spike damage like the special attacks from Saruman clones or AoE's from the man himself you wont really help. but healing up some of the damage caused by the time it took to move out of an Acid or Shadow pool is still useful. I even touched on this in my reply:
The title of your thread seemed to have implied a question. Which invites answers. I believe mine was crammed full of useful information and facts. But you seem more about stating opinions so let me state mine:
Weak is relative. The gambit system always engendered 1 Gambit to rule them all. At first it was Conviction, then it was Aggression, then it was EoB. Now we're at the EoB+Aggression is King stage. Buffing Conviction might put it back up at the top of the pile but I don't feel the need for it. I can still make efficient use of it today.
*This is all in the ToO T2 context. The more you widen that context the more useful Conviction becomes.
What I presented were scenarios and facts not opinions. What you presented was a reason for conviction being weak or other gambits being stronger than conviction.
I've got a test for everyone who says conviction helps heal group. Try doing a raid without using conviction at all and the with conviction and notice the difference. That is how I measure the effectiveness and viability of a gambit, the impact it has on a fight. Sure you can keep conviction up all the time and talk about all the nice things it does but truly can you say the same for other gambits?
And for the person saying conviction heals the same as mini small heals, its a bad analogy. Mini has 2 small heals that heal for about a min and not 24sec and they heal for far greater than conviction. If conviction had a baby brother group heal from DoW or some other thing then it would be considered viable.
What I presented were scenarios and facts not opinions. What you presented was a reason for conviction being weak or other gambits being stronger than conviction.
I've got a test for everyone who says conviction helps heal group. Try doing a raid without using conviction at all and the with conviction and notice the difference. That is how I measure the effectiveness and viability of a gambit, the impact it has on a fight. Sure you can keep conviction up all the time and talk about all the nice things it does but truly can you say the same for other gambits?
And for the person saying conviction heals the same as mini small heals, its a bad analogy. Mini has 2 small heals that heal for about a min and not 24sec and they heal for far greater than conviction. If conviction had a baby brother group heal from DoW or some other thing then it would be considered viable.
BS, all you've presented are opinions, just like the rest of us. Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it better than everybody else. You ask "what do you guys think", but don't like the answers, tough. Not to mention, you completely discount the buffs it gives in other stances, to you it's ALL about the heal and threat leach, what about the rest?
Unless someone is as full health, ALL heals help. It's up to you if you want to help the healer or not, you choose not to, fine. Just because something isn't better than something else doesn't make it useless.
Yes, instances are and can be won without using conviction at all. Same as they are and can be won without captains. Yet people are inviting them and using them all the time. Neither wardens conviction, nor captains on defeat healing skill, or any healing skill for that matter, can solo heal almost any instance.
Still it can give the healer less to do and the rest of the group will not fall as much on morale before the healer gets to them. It does not have to affect so much morale stat wise as it is affecting the morale of the group by feeling more relieved and not worying about surviving, but about downing the boss or whatever they are fighting.
As a warden or any other class you can be saying that it does not heal enough, but I have been talking to the healers which only watch out for the morale and they have been saying that they can notice the difference when they have extra heals and when they are doing all the job by themselves.
What I presented were scenarios and facts not opinions. What you presented was a reason for conviction being weak or other gambits being stronger than conviction.
I've got a test for everyone who says conviction helps heal group. Try doing a raid without using conviction at all and the with conviction and notice the difference. That is how I measure the effectiveness and viability of a gambit, the impact it has on a fight. Sure you can keep conviction up all the time and talk about all the nice things it does but truly can you say the same for other gambits?
I'm confused now. Was that a typo? I did not say conviction was weak. I thought you were saying that. What I presented was viable use for Conviction, using masteries, while still being able to use the other tools we have available to us now. It's called a use case.
While its true that there are things in this game that have huge visible impact (Epic for the Ages, Epic Conclusion, Heart Seeker, Bolster Courage, Codas, etc.) there are plenty of little additive things that when tallied up also make a difference. Its just harder to appreciate them as you don't necessarily SEE them. Doesn't mean they don't have an overall net positive effect on the gameplay and are worth the investment in time to execute. Especially as you don't have to sacrifice anything else for them. As I often spend time on my Captain should I just forgo Inspire? what about Rallying Cry? I mean they are just minor group heals so they surely are irrelevant.
I could apply your test to Aggression. I could go through an entire Saruman fight without a single Aggression. I have plenty of other tools that do a good enough job. Does that make Aggression useless?
Anyways if Conviction gets buffed im not going to complain. I will still try and use as many tools as I can comfortably fit into my tanking to maximise my contribution to the group. Ill end with a quote from someone who, by some, is considered to be the best warden on my server:
Yes, instances are and can be won without using conviction at all. Same as they are and can be won without captains. Yet people are inviting them and using them all the time. Neither wardens conviction, nor captains on defeat healing skill, or any healing skill for that matter, can solo heal almost any instance.
Still it can give the healer less to do and the rest of the group will not fall as much on morale before the healer gets to them. It does not have to affect so much morale stat wise as it is affecting the morale of the group by feeling more relieved and not worying about surviving, but about downing the boss or whatever they are fighting.
As a warden or any other class you can be saying that it does not heal enough, but I have been talking to the healers which only watch out for the morale and they have been saying that they can notice the difference when they have extra heals and when they are doing all the job by themselves.
You can't be serious comparing bringing a cappy to a group with hitting conviction.
As for Ravenstride I respect you opinion and play style. I have no grief with you since the intention of the thread was to see what other wardens think about conviction and how often they use it and whether the majority wants it buffed or not and you among several other's have stated your position. It is clear now that not many are in favor of my suggestion but I'll still hold on to my opinion and you can hold on to yours as long as we both get the job done. I was merely upset at the people making irrational and baseless statements such as how conviction is very good and you should stop playing the class if you use EoB more than conviction and one liner comments.
As far as your and some other cappy argument goes, cappy is a support/buff class which by definition makes them effective by doing all the little things to help the group. A warden however is not, it doesn't mean that I'm absolutely against warden helping out the group but I'd rather it be in a more active manner rather than a light background heal specially for, what you all seem to be missing, A 5 LENGTH GAMBIT . That is the only problem I have with conviction right now, its a 5 length gambit on a line that has better shorter gambits.
Just as a reference of how trivial conviction heal is, the average dps does about 2kdps(this number goes up to 3k in good geared and set up groups), a simple cappy revealing mark that returns 15% of the dmg in heals means 300-450 hps returned to the dpser. Support classes like cappy are sturdy and LMs are mostly ranged taking minimal dmg and raid burgs can easily put out 2k dps.
If a dps takes 4-5k dmg he can heal himself up for ~3-4k with in 10sec and throw in a mini aoe heal + soliquoly and what not you're back up to full morale where conviction has given you a lousy ~800 heal in total. If he takes a bigger hit he's most probably like to die, either way conviction barely helps.
I just don't see how it's worth it. Sure if healer likes to have a beer while raiding and goes a little slow but then the tank is always more drunk.
As for Ravenstride I respect you opinion and play style.
Likewise. I have taken your advice numerous times and have always found useful.
Originally Posted by Shintagh
I was merely upset at the people making irrational and baseless statements such as how conviction is very good and you should stop playing the class if you use EoB more than conviction and one liner comments.
Yeah I skipped that particular reply tbh. I didn't feel that it added anything to the conversation.
I guess I am wary of Turbine. They give with one hand and take with the other. Conviction, Desolation, Warden's Triumph are all 5 length gambits that are not worth as much as they used to. Well desolation was always on thin ice. WT and Conv just joined. It is a shame that they are all fairly lacklustre.
If Conv were to be buffed maybe add an element of group mitigation boost to them. +500 or so Tact / Phys mitigation in Determination could be really nice and in line with the group buffs of the other stances.
I've seen myself using conviction less and less now as well. It's mainly aggression/DoW/EoB/SoV/SoD for aggro for me lately. The heal from conviction is incredibly insignificant and the buffs from SoD/DoW are much more useful. I have healed ToO on my minstrel with guardian tanks and the lack of conviction heals doesn't make it any harder to keep the group up.
the intention of the thread was to see what other wardens think about conviction and how often they use it and whether the majority wants it buffed or not and you among several other's have stated your position. It is clear now that not many are in favor of my suggestion but I'll still hold on to my opinion and you can hold on to yours as long as we both get the job done.
I just don't see how it's worth it. Sure if healer likes to have a beer while raiding and goes a little slow but then the tank is always more drunk.
FWIW as a warden with about a month's worth of /played time: I am inclined to agree with you. The only times I use Conv is when I see the healer is bad, lazy, or lagging, or struggling for reasons beyond his control (people not going to their roots in RoF, or others stealing roots). Otherwise, I much prefer doubling up on DoW and SoD (to the extent that I can work them in). Aggression is something I probably use slightly too little, but I generally try to work in a few BMed gambits every 200k morale or so (or in Foundry if someone steals aggro on a mob just before he goes green).
If Conv were to be buffed maybe add an element of group mitigation boost to them. +500 or so Tact / Phys mitigation in Determination could be really nice and in line with the group buffs of the other stances.
Yes, but it would only make a lot of sense if the buff lasted a bit longer than the 10s for its recklessness/assailment colleagues (unless you mostly intend it as a nicety/gimmick).
BS, all you've presented are opinions, just like the rest of us. Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it better than everybody else. You ask "what do you guys think", but don't like the answers, tough. Not to mention, you completely discount the buffs it gives in other stances, to you it's ALL about the heal and threat leach, what about the rest?
Unless someone is as full health, ALL heals help. It's up to you if you want to help the healer or not, you choose not to, fine. Just because something isn't better than something else doesn't make it useless.
Gimmie wardens, never happy...
I gave you scenarios and facts from which reasonable conclusions are drawn. I have no problems with accepting answers that do not align with my views, only those that are backed up by L2P QQ comments or wide general philosophical views.
You seem to belong to the group that do not believe in constant improvement and tweaks, look at where the game was 5 years ago and look where it's at now and we'll know if the rest of the world agrees with you. Many of the ideas lying around in forums have been implemented months, years later. DBTD becoming PoT for one. Never being happy is one thing bringing up a concern is another. I didn't write a QQ post. I didn't curse the devs. I just stated my experience in some scenarios and proposed ideas and asked for community feedback and then you come in and add NOTHING to the conversation and start pointing fingers. May be you could start by actually presenting an opinion and whether or not it holds any weight is a question that comes at a later stage.
I've presented a scenario in raid setting that nulifies your ALL HEALS ARE IMPORTANT argument. As a matter of fact if the group is dying the best thing a warden can do is make sure he himself is sitting on a safe morale level so that the healer can actually concentrate on bringing the group up as opposed to letting out a lousy heal. The amount a mini can heal the group if he doesn't have to worry about the warden is far greater then a warden hogging heals but putting out a trivial hot for the group.
I already pointed out the context was in t2 raid settings where you're rarely taken as or have time to stance dance for reck/assailment convictions. They all sound all pretty on paper but you should actually try using it in a real situation. The threat negation from assailment conviction is useless in raids as it's only group wide and the phys mastery buff is nice and probably the only component that holds some weight to the 5 length gambit.
I gave you scenarios and facts from which reasonable conclusions are drawn. I have no problems with accepting answers that do not align with my views, only those that are backed up by L2P QQ comments or wide general philosophical views.
See, you hooked on my "never happy", comment and ran with it. I gave you some other facts about what Conviction offered, but you completely ignored them. I never said anything about qq or learning to play.
You seem to belong to the group that do not believe in constant improvement and tweaks, look at where the game was 5 years ago and look where it's at now and we'll know if the rest of the world agrees with you. Many of the ideas lying around in forums have been implemented months, years later. DBTD becoming PoT for one. Never being happy is one thing bringing up a concern is another. I didn't write a QQ post. I didn't curse the devs. I just stated my experience in some scenarios and proposed ideas and asked for community feedback and then you come in and add NOTHING to the conversation and start pointing fingers. May be you could start by actually presenting an opinion and whether or not it holds any weight is a question that comes at a later stage.
I belong to the group that wants and likes balance. If you said something like "Conviction needs to be balanced", I would have agreed, maybe... The spamable upfront 1.2 k heal isn't very balanced... Fire with BM and get a 14,000 total group in the space of 2-3 seconds... you've just negated the need for a healer in just about every non endgame raid in the game. Sure, Conviction in tanking could use a VERY minimal tweek, but a 1.2k heal for 6 people just for firing it off is crazy. IMO.
Again, I gave you feedback which you just ignored, opinion given, first post... At least tell my WHY my opinion holds no weight...
I've presented a scenario in raid setting that nulifies your ALL HEALS ARE IMPORTANT argument. As a matter of fact if the group is dying the best thing a warden can do is make sure he himself is sitting on a safe morale level so that the healer can actually concentrate on bringing the group up as opposed to letting out a lousy heal. The amount a mini can heal the group if he doesn't have to worry about the warden is far greater then a warden hogging heals but putting out a trivial hot for the group.
You've presented scenarios that reinforce your OPINION, you haven't nullified a thing. Disable all low level hots and see what raids look like. It's about adding up the little things, and there are lots of little things... You are preaching to the choir though, threat and me come first, if I have time for Conviction (if i'm tanking), it gets put in there.
I already pointed out the context was in t2 raid settings where you're rarely taken as or have time to stance dance for reck/assailment convictions. They all sound all pretty on paper but you should actually try using it in a real situation. The threat negation from assailment conviction is useless in raids as it's only group wide and the phys mastery buff is nice and probably the only component that holds some weight to the 5 length gambit.
See... I have tried using Conviction buffs in a real situation... it it works fantastically, almost too good in fact. Personally, I would like to change the heal to something else in Reck and Assail, but as is, Conviction buffs are very good in those stances. At least you FINALLY acknowledge the buffs here... What's wrong with the -threat buff?
You can't be serious comparing bringing a cappy to a group with hitting conviction.
I was merely upset at the people making irrational and baseless statements such as how conviction is very good and you should stop playing the class if you use EoB more than conviction and one liner comments.
Yes, cappy gives much more out in heals then a warden, but all the same can not solo heal any ToO or almost any instance. And by what you are presenting it is sounding just like the quote Raven wrote from some tank. If you're not a healer you're not supposed to heal and that's it.
No intention on trying to match their output in heals tho.
And I have to correct you about my first statement... I am not saying that you should stop playing warden because you are using more EoBs then Convictions or whatever. I am probably doing it too. I am saying that if your playstyle is hitting EoBs all day long or just hitting 3-4 EoBs to get aggro and go into the kitchen to get a beer, then yes, please stop playing the class. Because playing like that is giving wardens the reputation they have and I don't like it.
I've been doing it sometimes before the update. Go to moors, get the tyrant on me, get back and he's still one me and people are killing it. But never made it a regular rutine. And that type of playing has actualy made them nerf EoB a little.
Once you get the aggro from how I play it is not likely you will lose it unless someone realy tryes hard to get it you can also be buffing yourself and doing some heals for self and for group. Doesn't matter how much it is it is always welcome to get more morale. Sometimes you're 100 morale from triggering the Never surender or Last stand in time.
Doesn't matter how good or bad the healer is, it is just another way of being a part of the group and contributing to it other then just playing a dummy for some mindless mobs. I also feel better that I'm not a part of the group only so I can get hit instead of the others, but that I and my class can do actualy a little more.
I'm sick of people trying to tell me that I can't main heal Foundry t2 or RoF t2, or that they would prefer mini/RK or that 2 captains is a waste of a spot. For your information well geared fully HoH traited captains have no problem solo healing any of the the six man content currently in lotro, provided no one does anything stupid (stand in fire etc, eat spider venom etc) or the tank is terribly geared. I would argue that captains are in fact the best healer in the game, as you not only get a healer but buffs and additional melee dps. To anyone who thinks having more than one captain in a group is a waste or will lower dps I suggest you realise that captains have 3 banners and 3 versions of SB for a reason, using a red traited captain with OB can seriously improve the groups dps. My fastest and easiest runs in 6 man content so far have been using a double cappy set up and i've done 20 min runs with me as solo healer also.
So next time you set up a group please don't disregard captains as pure support. I understand the need for dedicated healing classes within the context of a raid but it really isnt the case with 6 mans.
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Originally Posted by SinisterSledge
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