Thread: I ask you tips for a DPS Warden

So, i decided after i got my first age i would make a dps warden, and i would like to resolve some doubts i have, like:

What Legacies do i put? I'm currently using - recklessness duration, + spear gambit damage, javelin skill max range, +11might, + critical strike multiplier and boar rush critical rating

What virtues do i go? I just want to know if its worthy trading Fortitude and Discipline for other traits

My equipments, should i give priorarity to might/agi equips?

And, i dont really know what gambits to use, but i always start with adroit maneuvre, then use Unerring Strike to put bleed, and i start to switch between Boar Rush, Wall of Steel etc (The Dark Before Dawn if my power is in the half)...

Anyway... All types of tips are welcome D:

You aiming on pve-dps, or pvp-dps? im asking cause you will need different LI's/ rotations/gear, depending if you wanna do pvp, or pve

pve (need to use 10 characteres minimum so here they are)

Keep in mind some people confuse our Critical Strike Multiplier with the champion's. Our legacy enhances only one skill, and one that you won't be able to use much on your rotations.

TBH Fortitude is pretty useless. Discipline is a fine choice. You won't get much damaging from virtues so focus on mitigation and morale ones so you can focus solley on DPS on your jewellry.

For legacies, Recklessnes and Spear Gambit are a must, Wages of Fear damage is pretty good since that's your biggest hitting skill. Javelin range is also nice.

Wardens Triumph, DbD and Onslaught are probably your most damaging skills. WT is long to build but good for the buff, DbD is a must to keep your power regen buff all the time, and Onslaught is a solid damaging and interrupting skill.

The most important part of your DPS are the bleeds, always keep up Power Attack, Mighty Blow and Unerring Strike, using them in this exactly order. Whenever you hit MB over PA or US over MB, you'll get a bonus damage, so it's pretty important to keep the order, you can even combine Battle Memory with one of the upper bleeds to do the removal bonus twice. And of course, always keep Improved Javelin Toss whenever it's up, it's your quickest skill to use, for the bigger damage on a long term.

Regarding equipment, and this is a personal opinion, I wouldn't waste any points on Agility. What you want from it is the Critical Rating, but you can get plenty more of with raw Critical Rating jewellry and relic (If I'm not mistaken you get 2 Crit for every 1 Agi, so those itens that give 600 Critical would be as much as you would get from 300 agi).
Focus mostly on Might and Physical Mastery and try to throw in as much itens with raw Critical Rating as you can. If you're going for PVE DPS a morale between 6k and 8k is just fine, for PvP you would need way more morale and mitigations. If you can make a build with 2k Might, that's pretty solid.

For trait choices my personal favorite are Force of Personality, Deadly Thrust and Find Weakness. Also, Efficient Thrust and A Keen Response are pretty useful, plus you must get both Way of the Spear and Grand Master Weapons Training.

On a side note, don't forget to turn Recklesnes on!

Originally Posted by Esegar

Keep in mind some people confuse our Critical Strike Multiplier with the champion's. Our legacy enhances only one skill, and one that you won't be able to use much on your rotations.

TBH Fortitude is pretty useless. Discipline is a fine choice. You won't get much damaging from virtues so focus on mitigation and morale ones so you can focus solley on DPS on your jewellry.

For legacies, Recklessnes and Spear Gambit are a must, Wages of Fear damage is pretty good since that's your biggest hitting skill. Javelin range is also nice.

Wardens Triumph, DbD and Onslaught are probably your most damaging skills. WT is long to build but good for the buff, DbD is a must to keep your power regen buff all the time, and Onslaught is a solid damaging and interrupting skill.

The most important part of your DPS are the bleeds, always keep up Power Attack, Mighty Blow and Unerring Strike, using them in this exactly order. Whenever you hit MB over PA or US over MB, you'll get a bonus damage, so it's pretty important to keep the order, you can even combine Battle Memory with one of the upper bleeds to do the removal bonus twice. And of course, always keep Improved Javelin Toss whenever it's up, it's your quickest skill to use, for the bigger damage on a long term.

Regarding equipment, and this is a personal opinion, I wouldn't waste any points on Agility. What you want from it is the Critical Rating, but you can get plenty more of with raw Critical Rating jewellry and relic (If I'm not mistaken you get 2 Crit for every 1 Agi, so those itens that give 600 Critical would be as much as you would get from 300 agi).
Focus mostly on Might and Physical Mastery and try to throw in as much itens with raw Critical Rating as you can. If you're going for PVE DPS a morale between 6k and 8k is just fine, for PvP you would need way more morale and mitigations. If you can make a build with 2k Might, that's pretty solid.

For trait choices my personal favorite are Force of Personality, Deadly Thrust and Find Weakness. Also, Efficient Thrust and A Keen Response are pretty useful, plus you must get both Way of the Spear and Grand Master Weapons Training.

On a side note, don't forget to turn Recklesnes on!

ps: you are brazilian too?:P\o/

Very thankful for your answer, but i didnt understand this part: "Whenever you hit MB over PA or US over MB, you'll get a bonus damage", can you explain it again?
Thanks!

as mina pira nos warden brasilero auehuae

While in Reck stance, you get bonus damage if you stack your bleeds in ascending order.

PA or Persevere = Low Bleed
MB = Med Bleed plus bonus damage if Low Bleed is active
US = Big Bleed plus bonus damage if Med Bleed is active

Originally Posted by droid

While in Reck stance, you get bonus damage if you stack your bleeds in ascending order.

PA or Persevere = Low Bleed
MB = Med Bleed plus bonus damage if Low Bleed is active
US = Big Bleed plus bonus damage if Med Bleed is active

Thanks! And Cesinha... I dont think we are able to speak portuguese here u.u (não acho que podemos falar português aqui u.u)

Aim for as much might and crit as you can possibly get on anything.

For melee DPS, you are going to want helm boots and pants of the orthanc aithlen set, and the rest of your armour being the moors spear lords set.

For settings, you want the ones with the following stats:
1.
+560 crit
+7.5% devastate magnitude
(forgot the other stat)

You want two of these.

2.
22 vit/agi/might (whichever works for you)
560 crit rating

You want two of these

3.
+700 physical offence
+168 physical mitigation.
(forgot other stat)

You want two of these

If you would like additional info on legacies or whatever, pipe up. Ideally this is a max melee DPS setting, with it you will have +50% bleed damage for your power attack line, the devastate is awesome if you are stacking crit.

You want to aim for 2k-2.4k might and 10.5k crit rating in this type of build (for pure DPS)
You should expect 6-7k morale final build.

I don't have parses yet - I am still looking at starting to gather some gear I still need.




Hope this helped.

Yo guys, talking about relics, I'm trying to maximize at most my DPS by the relics... And I'm in doubt about the relics. Which would be better, Offence or Crit?

I noticed that my DPS goes up alot when I crit, but most of these crits are in gambit builders, that doesn't do much damage, maybe I could do more damage if I put everything to offence? I don't know, what are your thoughts?

Crit is an absolute necessity when trying to max DPS.

The only time I DPS on my warden is in the Ettens. For PvE content I'd still rather get a dedicated DPS class even though I am fully aware that a well geared, well played dps warden is no laughing matter.

In ettens I find that a lot of the time i'll be in Assailment stance. We all know how slow that feels so I decided to go for 2x -2.5% attack duration relics on my DPS LIs. They are Gems or Runes but they basically give:

-2.5% Attack duration
+520 (ish) Evade
+25 Will


The evade is really nice for ettens when im in dps stances anyways. The Will is a bit meh but hey some more power and resistances can't hurt.

I am not sure if there are any other places where you can give yourself permanent -attack duration. There are buffs that gives nice -AD but they are all timed skills which stack nicely on top of this permanent modification.

I just like the feel of -5% attack duration coupled with the bonus from Adroit which I use a lot in Assailment. Put that in recklessness on top of the -20% (With maxed legacy) and its a very nice welcome addition to your dps.

I believe there was a thread on the Champ forums where someone did the maths and showed that for non induction classes -x% attack duration pretty much translates to +x% dps. I can't tell you that its exactly the same for Wardens but what I can say is that it sure does feel great firing off all those gambits that much quicker.

Here's that thread

Crit's a great thing for a DPS Warden. I try to get a modest amount. However when gearing I'm certain physical mastery > crit. Wardens only get very modest crit multipliers compared to other DPS classes.

I'll back that statement up using a derivative of the Mastery vs crit formula that Alad. uses. Later today, later this week--WTB more time, pst.

Originally Posted by Ravenstride

The only time I DPS on my warden is in the Ettens. For PvE content I'd still rather get a dedicated DPS class even though I am fully aware that a well geared, well played dps warden is no laughing matter.

In ettens I find that a lot of the time i'll be in Assailment stance. We all know how slow that feels so I decided to go for 2x -2.5% attack duration relics on my DPS LIs. They are Gems or Runes but they basically give:

-2.5% Attack duration
+520 (ish) Evade
+25 Will


The evade is really nice for ettens when im in dps stances anyways. The Will is a bit meh but hey some more power and resistances can't hurt.

I am not sure if there are any other places where you can give yourself permanent -attack duration. There are buffs that gives nice -AD but they are all timed skills which stack nicely on top of this permanent modification.

I just like the feel of -5% attack duration coupled with the bonus from Adroit which I use a lot in Assailment. Put that in recklessness on top of the -20% (With maxed legacy) and its a very nice welcome addition to your dps.

I believe there was a thread on the Champ forums where someone did the maths and showed that for non induction classes -x% attack duration pretty much translates to +x% dps. I can't tell you that its exactly the same for Wardens but what I can say is that it sure does feel great firing off all those gambits that much quicker.

Here's that thread

I would use those if you plan on using Assailment for DPS. Recklessness already has a 20% decrease in AD, that tends to be quite enough.

Originally Posted by Untg99

I would use those if you plan on using Assailment for DPS. Recklessness already has a 20% decrease in AD, that tends to be quite enough.

Even with 20% from Reck, going to 25% gives you an additional 3.33% DPS (1/1.25 - 1/1.2). How much phys mastery + crit can you get from those two relics? Enough to increase your DPS over 3%?

Heck, even with 20% Reck and 20% AM, going from 40 to 45% is worth 2.4% DPS

Originally Posted by droid

Even with 20% from Reck, going to 25% gives you an additional 3.33% DPS (1/1.25 - 1/1.2). How much phys mastery + crit can you get from those two relics? Enough to increase your DPS over 3%?

Heck, even with 20% Reck and 20% AM, going from 40 to 45% is worth 2.4% DPS

With my proposed build, a lot of your damage is going through DoT's, which stay on for 32 seconds.

Unless I am mistaken and PM does not add to bleed damage, the crit and % bonuses from melee sets would do well to stack with the 1400 PM you gain from the relics.

Once you have established the dots, you can chuck around impact hits (WoS/DbD) and it's not really an issue maintaining the dots.

Originally Posted by droid

Even with 20% from Reck, going to 25% gives you an additional 3.33% DPS (1/1.25 - 1/1.2). How much phys mastery + crit can you get from those two relics? Enough to increase your DPS over 3%?

Heck, even with 20% Reck and 20% AM, going from 40 to 45% is worth 2.4% DPS

It's not even just about the increased DPS.

Like I mention my DPS build is an Ettens build. Pushing out more hurt onto the creep is important (Kill faster, get more Renown when others hit same target, etc.). And Yes, I do use mostly Assailment these days in the moors. It's just the reality of my server. Besides it allows me a 40m EoB which is great for renown farming and popping Wargs out of stealth in groups of creep.

Back on topic, building and executing gambits that little bit quicker allows me to make sure I land enough bleeds and direct damage attack on targets that move, run, break LoS and react to what is happening. NPCs will just stand there and take it. -25% attack duration in Assailment is noticeable. Be in a group with a captain using War Cry for a total of -40% AD and you can't believe how good Assailment feels all of a sudden! Add a Minstrel with Anthem of Prowess and Assailment becomes the best thing since man discovered the Cocoa bean

As I mostly solo though i'll bring whatever I can to reduce Attack Duration on my own.

Originally Posted by Untg99

3.
+700 physical offence
+168 physical mitigation.
(forgot other stat)

I don't see these runes in game anywhere. Do you mean the Great River Rune of Power that has +584 offense?

Originally Posted by Untg99

With my proposed build, a lot of your damage is going through DoT's, which stay on for 32 seconds.

Unless I am mistaken and PM does not add to bleed damage, the crit and % bonuses from melee sets would do well to stack with the 1400 PM you gain from the relics.

Once you have established the dots, you can chuck around impact hits (WoS/DbD) and it's not really an issue maintaining the dots.

I, like Ravenstride have the -2.5% attack duration runes and always believed them to be the best choice for dps. I figured times might have changed so I tested the offense runes vs the attack duration runes last night and the attack duration runes still won by 7.5%. I didn't pony up for the +584 but I did get the +520 runes, I can't see the extra 128 offense making up 7.5%. My test wasn't ultra scientific but I feel that it was good enough to settle in my mind what runes are better.

The beauty of this is, if you want -2.5% attack duration for DPS, will is pretty useless, so just get the level 55 runes which are incredibly cheep to make.

Originally Posted by Untg99

With my proposed build, a lot of your damage is going through DoT's, which stay on for 32 seconds.

Unless I am mistaken and PM does not add to bleed damage, the crit and % bonuses from melee sets would do well to stack with the 1400 PM you gain from the relics.

Once you have established the dots, you can chuck around impact hits (WoS/DbD) and it's not really an issue maintaining the dots.

In another recent thread someone presented evidence that PM does not increase bleed tick damage. However, I think bleeds can crit, so crit does improve your DOT DPS.

That being said, attack duration does help with DOTs - even though it doesnt make them tick any faster, it means you can stick them faster, and get in more direct-damage gambits before you need to refresh the DOTs.

Originally Posted by horus418

The beauty of this is, if you want -2.5% attack duration for DPS, will is pretty useless, so just get the level 55 runes which are incredibly cheep to make.

Well not useless...will gives more max power, which means your DbtD and your Keen Response both give you better returns, since both are based on your max power. Especially in a DPS build, where you dont have Det's crazy ICPR bonus, power efficiency = better sustained DPS. Considering how little Will you're getting from other sources, that ~50 or so from the two runes might go a long way.

Something mentioned but not emphasized is that both presvere and power attack do a low bleed that you can use for bonus damage. Presevere is only a two length gambit and doesn't conflict with the sp-sh-fi line for masteries so it speeds things up quite a bit to use it instead.

Omen Kazier and I have both been playing around with Warden Reck PVE DPS in our alt/t1 kin runs. So far it is turning out very nicely.

First I have to say that I dont play with any sort of plug ins, but establishing a solid rotation that involves your dot up-time is essential (much like the WoW affliction lock). A good thing to remember is that dots SHOULD last 32 seconds your traits. A good measure of DoT uptime can be the cool downs on your masteries, which are 15 seconds. So, if you use masteries to build a DoT (for example - Sh Sp for Perseve) you should be able to use that mastery on its next cool down cycle for something else, and then when it pops AGAIN, is when you need to think about re-applying that dot. It gets a little convoluted if you take advantage of "down time" for dot application to pop off a few US, as that will screw with that DoT timer but doesn't REALLY matter as that skill can hit HARD.

I *think* I have worked out a pretty solid rotation, but I want to tweak a few things to involve more WoS, DboD for raw damage output. Once I get that figured out I might post it for review.

As for the crit/PM discussion, I see a lot of crit chance bonuses in our traits and some in our legacies, and am not all that worried about it. Right now I hit ~7000 crit rating when fully buffed and am more than OK with that. I am almost positive that higher might and PM affects bleed damage from ALL dots. I will post much more definitive data soon on that. (Should be noted that Tactical Mastery does not APPEAR to GREATLY affect the light damage components of SoD and BoV, so while the Exemplars jewelry can still be used for its ridiculous amount of might, better pieces can be found). I tend to err on the side of going for the most PM possible at the moment because of how many DoTs that will affect, and how that translates into "cast and forget" type damage.

My personal stance on agility is that I like it up to a certain point. I have an Agility (not leveled) legacy on my spear and make sure to keep it around 500+. Reason being, if you miss a MB or US, and you used masteries to build them, that just cost you a TON of time and damage. Especially if for some reason you can't SEE the miss pop up (no plug ins and a HUGE mob or something). Essential to get those dots up RELIABLY.

Also, last thing about Legacies, I chose to max the Gambit Life Tap damage on my Spear, just because it helps a little in AoE situations and soloing. If you want to seriously DPS in fellowships, there will be a time when you need to do some AoE damage, and since there aren't many pressing choices, I chose to go that route. Not the most efficient for sure, but it helps.