Thread: *NEW* *NEW* Failed fights ... Questions *HOT*

Hey people !

First of all thank your for reading this thread

I Open this thread to answer the questions asked by creeps/freeps the past days , and also to show why we today ( 19.5. 2012) failed again to have Open fights at cows or whatever .

Question 1 : Why are creeps ganking freeps , or freeps creeps?

Simply both sides are ganking we can´t forbidd it , its just a role of playing . Both sides , creeps freeps are ganking . Freeps get ganked by wargs , we get ganked by a group or raid . Both sides do it , and u get ganked any day . This happens on every server , and if u get ganked , dont forget some mins laters , another creep/freep gets ganked by the same group!
So what should you do to avoid getting ganked or zerged : If a creep /freep raid is in town , try to avoid the most crossed places by creeps/freeps for example OC which is a very popular place used by freeps to kill creeps. Dont forget the fact that even 3 freeps vs 1 creep is a gank , and it is the same as 12 freeps vs 2 creeps , the numbers dont tell u the truth . Fact is Gank is Gank ! We all do it and we will do it again and again , if u cant live with that , stop coming to moors thats the truth.

Question 2 : In your creep raid u have 2 WLs and 2 defilers , we only have 2 minis , that is unfair .


Nice I love this question because its the commonest of all . Creeps are weak , they need more heals that is clear . They dont have like its called on freepside ,,Oh #### buttons´´ . Only thing what creeps have are the following skills i mention now :

Oh #### buttons Creep side


Spider : Burrow skill : only skill that provides u some seks to hide , long CD canalysed skill mostly freeps wait for you to come out and u die anyway .

Warg : Dissapear >> Hips , same as the burg skill

BA >>> The Avoidence skill which provides u for a short time a better avoid chance , comperable to Burglars

WL >>> None , because he cant bubble himself

and so on

Freep side Oh #### buttons ( i mention only 3 because freeps got tons)

Guard >> 2x Pledge
Champ >> 2x bubbles
Captain >> Last stand
Burg etc

What do we see? Freeps are stronger then creeps thats true. Creeps lack in skills/healing/SAVE ME skills , and creeps need more heals as freeps . To add the fact all Minis are OP a mini with ORT gear +2nd age gear and stuff like that can easily outheal 2 wl´s , and then comes another mini , who outheals the Defilers .

Question 3 : Why Creeps Hug , Why freeps hug?!!?!!?!?!? Short answer : if Freeps are outnumbered or creeps they hug , and if u get zerged by 7 freeps its normal that u run inside to Oc to hide yourself . Generally hugging is bad , because if u are solo and u hug EC and u Pew pew some low creeps and then hug first Marshall AN , thats just lame . On all servers people hug and they wont stop . There are Individuals who want to have open fights , but they cant because Freeps/creeps just hug , it is like ganking , it was- it is- and it will be a part of Ettens gameplay. We just can try to minimalize the hugging , in that way that we try to make open battles .


I tried today convince freeps to come to Cows where Bazzilion Creepy , etc etc waited for freeps 10vs 9 fair fight , they waited 10 mins , i saw just again freeps hugging TA /sigh We cant change it , but at least we try .

Q4 : Why creeps are all the time grouped ?!?!?!?!? Read Q2 >>> If u dont , Freeps are strong creeps are weak , we need to work together.

Q5 : Why people like itwasjustadream Log to freep side and ask for open fights? Easy i wanna show people how fun and fair fights at Cows are . Cows are a place where u cant hug etc . I am just trying to to show that this ,,Open fights´´ with no NPCs are much better then Hugging TA and Pew pewing From EC because its easy pesy to get points .....

Thanks for reading this i just wanted to answer the 5 most asked question in the last day , I strongly hope that our server gets 1 day good Sorry for long post , but cheers that u read it to the end .

P.s sorry for mistakes.

Dream



+ Why is Rk a OP healer to answer PJ question ? He has epic for the ages , a 4k bubble and several buffs , such like ,, Do not fall this day´´ , Why is mini OP in healing? Minis have many good healings and ofc the bubble and song of the hammerhand , and ofc Minis are great kiters .....

Although you didn't analyze comprehensively some factors that render freeps OP, I'll give +rep to you anyway for the effort. Try to improve your post with more detailed facts, like the reason for a mini outhealing 2 creep healers (FS, and other skills I don't know of, I was never familiar with minis). You didn't even include the RK as an OP healer; RKs are more suited for healing in the Moors than minis. (ever seen an Epic for the Ages crit for 10k+?, not to mention group bubble)

Thanks Paw , The other 5 i upload tomorrow

nice thread i have played on booth sides and main thing what lacks of freeps is proper leader

Not to derail your thread, but champs only have 2 bubbles, neither of which is an "Oh cr*p"-skill. Both are intended to be used during any fight and are there to make up for specific weaknesses of champions, not to be a saviour.

Sorry for my mistake , but these bubbles are often used by freeps / while spars and while running away

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

Not to derail your thread, but champs only have 2 bubbles, neither of which is an "Oh cr*p"-skill. Both are intended to be used during any fight and are there to make up for specific weaknesses of champions, not to be a saviour.

Making up for weaknesses isnt saving you ?

With both Bubbles your effective Morale gets increased by about 9k (not ingame atm exact number might be a bit lower) adding that to the 8-9k u start with in a buffed raid makes u have more morale then a creep,more dmg,more mitigations etc.. I cant see why that isnt an Oh cr.ap skill... Sure you can use it offensive,but every oh cr.ap skill can be used offensive and defensive..


To the rest beeing said here:

I dont blame the freeps for not coming cows today,we killed them inside TA Questroom with NPCs on us,they wouldnt stand a chance in an open Fight..

But that has nothing to do with Numbers,Leaders,Healers etc.. It is simply the fact that most of those People have little experience in pvmp,all they know is killing lowranks and zerging. Facing a decent grp puts them in a challenge greater then Saruman t2.

Note that this is no attack to you guys,and not a Flame.. Simply me pointing out the reason you guys cant win battles on even grounds.

I cant remember who said it today, Freeps need a Leader that teaches them how to play,and get good fights vs a creep Leader,and i agree! However,i cant think of anyone willing to do that Job,since it will involve alot of dying,alot of frustration and more then anything else someone with a very thick skin since that Leader needs to get People to follow his Advice,ignore all the hating going on between clubbers,farmers,etc..Wich i know isnt easy

If you find that Person,start working on teamwork,improve your personal game,get geared and talk with the creepleaders to get somewhat even battles and start to have fun!

Hi,
first thing: Saying that any class is "OP" is nonsense! We are no npc´s (they could be op for example), but shouting out "OP" all the time when someone is just good with playing his class, doesnt make sense for me. A very good player can make any class reallly hard to beat in pvp. Other way around as well; a very bad player with bad equipment on freep side can be as weak as any r0 creep.

Open fights: I am always up for open fights if there are two groups with roughly the same strengh and the right conversation between them! ( Yesterday we didnt have either one. The freep-raid got wiped in front of TA several times without any chance and when dream was chatting to me about open fights we got wiped again in the same moment (as you may can imagine, most freeps didnt want to go to open field in that particular moment)).
If you want the groups to move to open field i would suggest to send a spider- (or LM-) pet with a note (renaming) to the other group and w8 for any reaction.

In general for freeps: talk to each other about a strategy if there is noone leading a proper raid. If you dont make a plan and your opponents do, your always going to lose the battle.

cya soon in the moors
Regards
Led (Brogur/Fidell/Nathanael in the moors mostly)

Originally Posted by Ledro

Hi,
first thing: Saying that any class is "OP" is nonsense! We are no npc´s (they could be op for example), but shouting out "OP" all the time when someone is just good with playing his class, doesnt make sense for me. A very good player can make any class reallly hard to beat in pvp. Other way around as well; a very bad player with bad equipment on freep side can be as weak as any r0 creep.

I stopped reading after the first sentence. You either have no clue about the current state of the Moors,or you are trolling...

Just cause bad players make every class beatable doesnt mean the class or some skills arent Overpowered..

If i read something like that i have to ask if you play creep or just freep?

I usualy am always into pvmp in front of any pve action, but just cuz' of all this ''new stuff happening in moors'' i havent log in moors twice in last 8-9days and im glad, even farming lame crystals with 1% drop is better then trying to understand how can a full end game geared freep be beaten by any r0 as it was said in posts above. I have never seen Mini lvl75 even with lowest gear getting killed by any r0 or even 5 r0's at the time. Basicly if in Harmony, under r6 creep with no store purchased skills will ever even have chance out dps the strenght of self healing mini. That is OP and its stupid to claim otherwise.


No champion,warden,mini and even a hunter did 5k shot on my creeps since Audacity was introducted, but then again someone like that dwarf RK (i forgot name, not gilvard, not jusper, not imilhir) who i beat everytime when i saw him solo coming from gy, was lucky and did epic 6,8k on me even on flyer stance. That is OP, if he do that on me, what he do on r0-5 reavers i cant even imagine....And no, he didnt do 6k hit cuz' he is BEST RK, he got it, cuz' his class is OP in dps.

Im really happy that itwasjustadream trying to make pvmp works a bit, but all i hear and see on forums and on glff is that action fail to happen as it was imagined to happen.


So as in my support, ill solo gank every freep i cought in moors today, just to make some balance into all of this ..

Any warg willing to make fun out of Op classes can ims me on creep side, ill be on, lurking in shadows.


P.S And for those who are about to say that i played my Champ when he was OP, to remind you, i can still log him anyday, but i prefer creep side as they are in need of help nowdays, plus when i was playing champ, i did not had bubbles each 60sec, and my man heal had 1h and dire need had 30min CD, comparing for todays champs using bubble even if see creep incoming, just in case, cuz' why not, they have 60sec CD after all.

The truth is in the middle..

Generally freeps are stronger than creeps as single units but what that counts in the game is the ''machine'' of the group the experience and less the single unit's better skills.. Although there some freep classes as hunters who have problem to play without support..

Freeps have to pay every month to join in pvp zone so usually will be less. Also the payment of freep pvp brokes the continue of a good group because many players are not able to pay every month so the groups are changing month to month..

Freeps have many other things to do in pve zone so if they ve been farmed when the get in ec they ll leave to pve zone and no good group will be organized..

A ''key'' unit in pvp which is stealth unit is op at creep's side (warg) and with more numbers than burglars in our server. That changes the rules of the game a lot.. (can't charge becuse always u have to keep in mind the minies of your group)

One last notice is that the few times that freeps have the numbers or a good group, creeps don t even hug a keep and stay at grams..

Originally Posted by jivius

One last notice is that the few times that freeps have the numbers or a good group, creeps don t even hug a keep and stay at grams..

Creeps usually only go to Grams when freeps are greatly outnumbering creeps and farming them. Many times I've seen freeps getting more and more people while creeps don't even have a raid up and have less people.

And usually in group situations creeps need the numbers, especially on our server that has lot of low rank creeps.

I can understand it.. Instead of log or staying at steps, u can hug lug as we hug tr until we get more balanced groups.. i suggest that if only the one of the 2 sides get of from battle and log the other would be able to take lug (or tr) as reward..

I want to refer as a disadvantage of freep side that they are not able to track (especially now that hunters is difficult to stand in moors + the low numbers of burglars). It is very important to know the numbers and the place of enemies especially with so many wargs in stealth..

Originally Posted by jivius

I can understand it.. Instead of log or staying at steps, u can hug lug as we hug tr until we get more balanced groups.. i suggest that if only the one of the 2 sides get of from battle and log the other would be able to take lug (or tr) as reward..

Usually it happens in TA and freeps farm us even there. Lug is no different, you can clear adds slowly and kill us even with Tyrant on you.

Also, I don't mind taking Lug / Tr, actually I quite like fights near Grams / GV but the problem is when map is blue / red, freeps / creeps still are around OC/WB/TA/SB/EC. If map is blue freeps could move closer to Grams and when map is red creeps could move closer to GV

Originally Posted by jivius

I want to refer as a disadvantage of freep side that they are not able to track (especially now that hunters is difficult to stand in moors + the low numbers of burglars). It is very important to know the numbers and the place of enemies especially with so many wargs in stealth..

So creeps have 1 thing better, is it too much? Freeps have much better damage, healing, mitigations, more skills, OH #### skills, mounts, virtues, consumables, damage-types, criticals, attack speed. Is it so bad that creeps have better tracking abilities?

Thanks guys Haras , Bazz,Muzluk zrinko etc etc , you make me happy that u care so much about this .

@ Ledro , sorry FREePS NOT OP?!?!??!?!?!!? Please you play r5 reaver ( any class will do) i play my guard i pledge and till u can count you are dead . Guardian is OP and i dont wanna talk about Mini , and not wanna start about Warden and Neversurrender.
Thanks anyway , that u posted here something mate

In Ta it is easier to be farmed but in tr although creeps were much more overnumbered had epic fails many times.. I m sure that this can happen too in opposite side at lug.. Sure it would be better than log and no fights take place..

I agreed that freeps as single units are stronger than creeps but we have to put in the table all the facts that can influence the balance of a battle..

The only bad thing about fighting at TR/Lug is GY. People who died and retreat trying get back to the fight and on the way at GY always some others waiting for those soloers. So some will get inside and some will die trying get in. I prefer more fight arround TA instead Lug/TR as you have 3 gates to get in instead 1, anyways open fights are what drive me crazy <3

OMG seriously ppl that is what i am talking about.
OFC is a standart crafted geared freep stronger than a low rank creep!!!! But there arent only low rank creeps on the server. As this is a pve game and pve situations are getting more and more extreme, ofc ppl need "oh cr#p" buttons to survive them.
But you are talking about overpowered all the time. So what do you want? A nerf on all the overpowered classes? Or we all only log on our hunters when we enter the moors?
Listeneing to you a Mini is OP (ofc!!!), a cappy is OP (because of mits + last stand + good heals), champ (bubbles), guard (as you said, i dunno why), warden (never surrender + hard to kill), RK (huge heals + huge dps), Burg (stealth). Hmmm as far as i can see its just standard to be OP for a freep. So what are you complaining about? Thats not the players fault, its the company not paying the same attention to both sides and that is nothing new.

To the fighting places: everything whats apart from TA sounds good for me.

Regards
Led

Cheers for today's freep raid (one moment we were 15..). Creep raid had less numbers but they defend heroic their keeps..
So cheers for both sides!

Originally Posted by Ledro

OMG seriously ppl that is what i am talking about.
OFC is a standart crafted geared freep stronger than a low rank creep!!!! But there arent only low rank creeps on the server. As this is a pve game and pve situations are getting more and more extreme, ofc ppl need "oh cr#p" buttons to survive them.
But you are talking about overpowered all the time. So what do you want? A nerf on all the overpowered classes? Or we all only log on our hunters when we enter the moors?
Listeneing to you a Mini is OP (ofc!!!), a cappy is OP (because of mits + last stand + good heals), champ (bubbles), guard (as you said, i dunno why), warden (never surrender + hard to kill), RK (huge heals + huge dps), Burg (stealth). Hmmm as far as i can see its just standard to be OP for a freep. So what are you complaining about? Thats not the players fault, its the company not paying the same attention to both sides and that is nothing new.

To the fighting places: everything whats apart from TA sounds good for me.

Regards
Led

There arent many high ranked active creeps on Withy.. But most Freeps are decent geared by now. Making a creeps life from r0 to r7 a pain,or forcing them to pve for ranks,and then start to learn pvp at r7.. If freeps have 15+ decent people it gets hard for creeps to put up an even raid,unless it happens that all the ranked creeps are online.

And ofc,no one said it is your fault that Turbine balances Freeps for PvE and not for PvP,but you surely can agree that if 12 Freeps are able to beat ToO t2 a few 12k morale low dmg output creeps wont be any challenge... But thats not gonna change the fact that for pvp some of those skills are simply overpowered and need to be tuned down,wich wont happen since turbine doesnt care.
Skills that let you tank/outheal Raidboss dps are ofc overpowered against another player that has no such skills. isnt that logic?

There is a thread made by a r15 champ saying that they should just make all skills in the moors lower potency,aka less dmg,less heal,more cooldown etc. and it would already be somewhat balanced.

@ Haras,creeps need to buy their skills in the store if they want a better chance,so freeps can buy tracks in the store sounds fair to me

I think i have already paid enough turbine for getting level 75 with full gear (quest regions, vips) so i m not tending to pay any further for tracks..
Skills are not temporary as tracks..

Thanks to you Haras , and thanks to Elastoplasto .

@ Led Mate In my previues thread i have explained why freeps are OP.
I am not saying , they dont need ( Save me buttons , they need them .)
But comparing to a creeps , freesp are OP , and every 1 knows why .

Some Examples

The skills the freep classes offer are huge .
I am not counting in the Traits ...
The legendary skills
The Option to buy from store Vit/might tomes
The legendary items which offer you many Bonuses , such as for guards , for example if i run out of power i equip a sword whatever with like +50 fate and will for better Morale/Power regen just a example. This counts for any class .
All this stuff , Creeps dont have , they can only count on their few traits skills and pots and a group , but thats all....


Greetings dream