Thread: Checking my thinking on critical rating

Hello to all fellow champion-players:

I'm writing out my thoughts here so that if I've goofed in my thinking somebody can let me know.

Preliminary figures:
dev % hits the cap of 10% when crit rating=11083 (as displayed in your character panel)
crit % hits the cap of 25% when crit rating=11861

My champ runs around unbuffed with a crit rating of about 10.6k and physical mastery of 27.7k. His rotation is:

(dw) swift strike --> wild attack ---> (switch to 2h) brutal strikes ---> clobber ---> (switch to dw) swift strike ---> etc.
|---------------------------------------- melee auto-attacks occur in this rotation --------------------------------------------|

In addition:

(a) he has the "vicious strikes" trait equipped: that's +1200 to the crit rating for "strike" skills (such as brutal strike and swift strike)

(b) he has at least three red traits, so he gets (among other things) a +1200 crit rating bonus for wild attack. (Note: the wording is unclear for the third red trait if the +1200 crit rating bonus applies in general for everything, or if it is limited to wild attack. Given that my displayed crit rating doesn't change when I drop from three to two red traits, I conclude that the +1200 crit rating bonus for the third red trait only applies to wild attack. Does anybody have a definitive answer on this?)

Thus, for my champ's single target rotation, despite having a displayed crit rating of 10.6k, he really has a 10.6k+1.2k=11.8k crit rating for
swift strike
wild attack
brutal strike
and a 10.6k crit rating for clobber and his auto-attack. Thus, for "most of my champ's rotation" he is at the crit cap of 11.8k. Only clobber and auto-attack are below the cap. (And if he uses aoe skills such as blade-wall, raging blades, blade-storm, or rend, those are also at the 10.6k crit rating.)

So, crit-wise, I conclude that my champ is at the cap for his bread-'n'-butter skills. (For my champ, my memory is that swift+wild+brutal account for around 60% of his total damage, with auto-attack and clobber making up the rest of the damage.)

If I'm blessed with a captain in my group (thus my champ gets IDOME and Relentless), he can swap out some his crit gear for more might and physical mastery and still be at or close to the crit % cap, since rating points above 11.8k don't increase your crit % above 25.0%

This all looks correct to me, but can anybody poke any holes in this or check my thinking? Maybe I've misunderstood something along the way.

Happy dps-ing,
Bluddshedd (of Firefoot)

I don't want to derail your thread, but I have a question for you that I just can't put down. My Champ is only level 62 so I'm not really up on end game mechanics. You say that you switch between 2h and dw and back during your rotation, is that really advantageous? Wouldn't the dps lost from the switching time lower your over all dps enough to warrant not doing that? or does using a 2h for the last 2 skills really make up the loss?

Despite being called Swift Strikes they are not affected by Vicious Strikes so you don't get the 1200 critical rating bonus for them.
The 3-set berserker bonus only applies to Wild Attack (the berserker page in the trait window only says Improved Wild Attack).

@ Maldrake:
If you switch your weapons during the animation you won't loose any time to use your skills. It just looks weird as the animation gets cancelled and you are idly standing there. And the cooldown is not properly displayed though you still have to wait for the cd to run out before using a skill again.

Looks pretty good to me; only issue which was mentioned is that Swift Strike doesn't get the benefit Wild Attack does.

Originally Posted by Maldrake

I don't want to derail your thread, but I have a question for you that I just can't put down. My Champ is only level 62 so I'm not really up on end game mechanics. You say that you switch between 2h and dw and back during your rotation, is that really advantageous? Wouldn't the dps lost from the switching time lower your over all dps enough to warrant not doing that? or does using a 2h for the last 2 skills really make up the loss?

If you do it well enough you won't have any lost DPS, as you'll be switching during animations. Macros make it much easier, though it's doable with a few good hotkeys, or even via clicking if that was so desired.

Out of curiosity, what's your build like?
I geared myself all the way for pure crit and even if i was to use the dwarf flask i'd sit at 10.4k crit. With the clicky pocket it's 10.1k.
Despite my mastery being slightly higher, i can't see any way to trade mastery for some more crit.

Crit is something that annoys me like miss rate when i run Combat Analysis. My crit rating never seems to be where it says it is on paper even on the training dummies and its impossible to get accurate numbers on what dummies/mobs crit protection is. Also annoying is the fact that melee crit protection seems to be far more dominant in the raid then ranged or tactical crit protection which is really frusturating for a numbers guy like me.

Originally Posted by Maldrake

I don't want to derail your thread, but I have a question for you that I just can't put down. My Champ is only level 62 so I'm not really up on end game mechanics. You say that you switch between 2h and dw and back during your rotation, is that really advantageous? Wouldn't the dps lost from the switching time lower your over all dps enough to warrant not doing that? or does using a 2h for the last 2 skills really make up the loss?

Is it advantageous? For me, yes.

The switching process is awkward at first, but in a few days you get the muscle memory down and now I do it automatically without thinking. I have my 2h weapon bound to the "z" key, and my 1h legendary/1h off-hand are bound to the "x" and "c" keys. So I merely hit "z" right before brutal strikes, and after clobber, I then hit "x" and "c" ("x" comes slightly before "c") to re-equip the off-hands. Without skill lag, nothing is lost.

Of course, with lag, there is the occasional lock-up, where you push "x" and "c" and only one of them re-equips; then you're using one 1h weapon and the other hand holds nothing, but this is rare.

Bluddshedd (of Firefoot)

Originally Posted by Thomasborn

Out of curiosity, what's your build like?
I geared myself all the way for pure crit and even if i was to use the dwarf flask i'd sit at 10.4k crit. With the clicky pocket it's 10.1k.
Despite my mastery being slightly higher, i can't see any way to trade mastery for some more crit.

Earring: Wrath Unleashed, Knight's Platinum Stud
Neck: the ancient topaz barter necklace
Bracelet: Easterling War Bracelet and the bracelet with +92 might, +92 agi, and +328 crit that you barter for in Galtrev
Rings: Empowered Anduin Victor and Empowered Anduin Exemplar
Pocket: Empowered Anduin Exemplar Bauble (use the captain version, gives double the crit that the champ version does)

The relics on my weapons and champ runes are crit heavy. (I don't stack physical mastery, but crit.)

Armor: head, shoulders, chest, legs, boots = Delualogos armor, hands = crafted Great River gauntlets of assault (or something like that) --- these guantlets give a nice crit bonus at the expense of some might.

In the end, when I log my champion on, he is at 10,550 crit and 27.7k physical mastery. If he's in a group with the captain buffs IDOME and relentless strike, he can swap some gear to run with 11,500 crit (includes the relentless strike bonus) and close to 31k physical mastery.

Hope this is a good enough answer,
Bluddshedd (of Firefoot)

Bluddshedd

Is your mylotro info right? With that set up you are right around 5.3k morale? Do you raid with that set up? I would feel very uncomfortable with that low morale myself in a raid.

Originally Posted by Azerog

Bluddshedd

Is your mylotro info right? With that set up you are right around 5.3k morale? Do you raid with that set up? I would feel very uncomfortable with that low morale myself in a raid.

That's what I was thinking. For some raids it would be just dandy, but for most ToO where melee taking hits is unavoidable, I imagine this would be a little too fragile.

Originally Posted by iloverach

Earring: Wrath Unleashed, Knight's Platinum Stud
Neck: the ancient topaz barter necklace
Bracelet: Easterling War Bracelet and the bracelet with +92 might, +92 agi, and +328 crit that you barter for in Galtrev
Rings: Empowered Anduin Victor and Empowered Anduin Exemplar
Pocket: Empowered Anduin Exemplar Bauble (use the captain version, gives double the crit that the champ version does)

The relics on my weapons and champ runes are crit heavy. (I don't stack physical mastery, but crit.)

Armor: head, shoulders, chest, legs, boots = Delualogos armor, hands = crafted Great River gauntlets of assault (or something like that) --- these guantlets give a nice crit bonus at the expense of some might.

In the end, when I log my champion on, he is at 10,550 crit and 27.7k physical mastery. If he's in a group with the captain buffs IDOME and relentless strike, he can swap some gear to run with 11,500 crit (includes the relentless strike bonus) and close to 31k physical mastery.

Hope this is a good enough answer,
Bluddshedd (of Firefoot)

Yeah, thanks.

Regarding the questions in your OP:

Remember that bosses have crit defense, and (as far as any of us is aware), the tougher the boss the more crit defense it'll have. I certainly have no idea how much crit defense they have, but I'd imagine that it's enough that you won't be wasting any crit rating by going over the cap by a bit.

Unrelated to your questions: if the previous posters are correct about your morale in that build, good luck in T2 ToO.

Originally Posted by Azerog

Is your mylotro info right? With that set up you are right around 5.3k morale? Do you raid with that set up? I would feel very uncomfortable with that low morale myself in a raid.

I don't know how to check "mylotro" on this; instead I'll just state some more numbers. When I log in prior to any buffs:

10.5k crit
27.7k physical mastery
~5400 morale

Do I raid with that setup? Answer: usually but not always. This is because:

(1) We always have one or two captains in the raids, thus my champ gets IDOME (+75 vit in particular so +225 more morale among other things), motivating speech (+10% morale = another ~500 morale). Also, we always have hope tokens popped (that's another +5% to morale, so another ~400-500 morale). This gets Bluddshedd to a bit under 7k morale. That's not very much morale, agreed, but ....

(2) B's job is to kill stuff and kill it quickly (esp. in ToO t2), and champs do crazy damage when they're in maxed-out dps mode.

(3) My kin has really good tanks and healers, thus my champ basically plays while sitting in a lawn chair sipping from a drink with a little umbrella in it.

(4) Call of the Wild, Time of Need, Sudden Defense, and Heroics often save the day. Five minute cooldowns are not a big deal, especially in T2 ToO where there is usually that much time between trash pull attempts.

Occasionally, I'll put on the Othrod boots and leggings and get up to ~8k morale. For example, at the Saruman fight, he'll do this when he has to tank a shadow version of Saruman. As needed, he can swap out some jewelry for more morale as well. For example, for T2 Lighting boss he'll go in with around 9k morale.

What I've learned through experience with my kin and all the raids we've done is that if B dies, it's usually a horrific death that would've still happened if he had more morale. He'll get smushed for 20k, or 5 cave claw diggers with crit/dev him at once; he would've died if he had 9k or even 10k morale. The big one-shot deaths wouldn't be preventable. Occasionally, he'll get nibbled down and then, yes, 1-3k more morale would've made the difference between living and dying. We adapt and change gear as needed. There are times when it is silly to be in glass cannon mode, but those times are (based on how I play and my kin-mates) in the minority compared to when the glass cannon is preferred.

This entire discussion pertains only to B's group activity. Soloing and Moorsing is a completely different beast.

By the way, I used to run with 8-9k morale by default, but glass-cannoning (to make up a participle) is a lot more fun. It took a while to psychologically get used to being a lot more fragile than I used to be, but once you go glass cannon it is hard to go back!

Bluddshedd (of Firefoot)

Originally Posted by Lestache

Remember that bosses have crit defense, and (as far as any of us is aware), the tougher the boss the more crit defense it'll have. I certainly have no idea how much crit defense they have, but I'd imagine that it's enough that you won't be wasting any crit rating by going over the cap by a bit.

Unrelated to your questions: if the previous posters are correct about your morale in that build, good luck in T2 ToO.

Great point about crit defense --- I can't honestly say I've considered it until you point it out. So yes, there could be value to going over the 11.8k crit cap. Thanks for mentioning this!

I tank frost and fire giant on t2 with a base 6300 morale setup. Morale is way overrated in raid play IMO. Mitigations however are still quite nice.

I run all of Orthanc T2 with 6000 morale unbuffed (except of Saruman T2 where I run around 7000 morale, as we still have to beat that encounter; expect me to drop morale once we have that fight down) without any problems.

Originally Posted by iloverach

I don't know how to check "mylotro" on this; instead I'll just state some more numbers. When I log in prior to any buffs:

10.5k crit
27.7k physical mastery
~5400 morale

Do I raid with that setup? Answer: usually but not always. This is because:

(1) We always have one or two captains in the raids, thus my champ gets IDOME (+75 vit in particular so +225 more morale among other things), motivating speech (+10% morale = another ~500 morale). Also, we always have hope tokens popped (that's another +5% to morale, so another ~400-500 morale). This gets Bluddshedd to a bit under 7k morale. That's not very much morale, agreed, but ....

(2) B's job is to kill stuff and kill it quickly (esp. in ToO t2), and champs do crazy damage when they're in maxed-out dps mode.

(3) My kin has really good tanks and healers, thus my champ basically plays while sitting in a lawn chair sipping from a drink with a little umbrella in it.

(4) Call of the Wild, Time of Need, Sudden Defense, and Heroics often save the day. Five minute cooldowns are not a big deal, especially in T2 ToO where there is usually that much time between trash pull attempts.

Occasionally, I'll put on the Othrod boots and leggings and get up to ~8k morale. For example, at the Saruman fight, he'll do this when he has to tank a shadow version of Saruman. As needed, he can swap out some jewelry for more morale as well. For example, for T2 Lighting boss he'll go in with around 9k morale.

What I've learned through experience with my kin and all the raids we've done is that if B dies, it's usually a horrific death that would've still happened if he had more morale. He'll get smushed for 20k, or 5 cave claw diggers with crit/dev him at once; he would've died if he had 9k or even 10k morale. The big one-shot deaths wouldn't be preventable. Occasionally, he'll get nibbled down and then, yes, 1-3k more morale would've made the difference between living and dying. We adapt and change gear as needed. There are times when it is silly to be in glass cannon mode, but those times are (based on how I play and my kin-mates) in the minority compared to when the glass cannon is preferred.

This entire discussion pertains only to B's group activity. Soloing and Moorsing is a completely different beast.

By the way, I used to run with 8-9k morale by default, but glass-cannoning (to make up a participle) is a lot more fun. It took a while to psychologically get used to being a lot more fragile than I used to be, but once you go glass cannon it is hard to go back!

Bluddshedd (of Firefoot)

Thank you. That is what I was wondering. I try and keep my champ around 7k morale (unbuffed) and was wondering if I might have been just too squeamish about that morale point to trade for more crit and PM. In raid buffs he sits at 28kish PM and 12kish crit. (those numbers may be a little off but that is my memory from last time I checked). I may have to give it a try if I ever end up getting a pair of war bracelets.