Thread: Let the Creeps run Free on all the Lands!

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

Being a WW2 history freak, I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks!

In that case, you probably know what a Feiseler Fi-103 is as well (not to mention the A-4).

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I'll be honest, I had to look it up. I seen pictures of it before but did not know the name. Right now I'm reading about Napoleon's ill fated 1812 invasion of Russia. Wow, what a mess.

Originally Posted by UrsaMinor

Because there's already enough competition in real life, and I play games to get a break from real life. Plus the way I was brought up emphasized using one's skills to help others towards a common goal, not stomp them and crow about it.

As for sparring (or anything else in the game that I don't enjoy, but that you might want me to do), my time is my time. Trying to tell me that I should offer myself up for your enjoyment is pretty arrogant.

^^^^ This exactly.
BTW: I have been to the Moors on my baby warg. The 'chat' (insults) from creeps about being a green noob before I'd even started put me off-it was a very different attitude from PvE players who tend to help or ignore newbies, not gank and insult them. I may go with kinnies as a freep now I'm 75, just to check it out. It's nice to have the option. But for all the technical and social reasons outlined by others my response to open world PvP is 'no way!' Lots of other games have this. Go play them.

I think a lot of people are missing that a creep can't communicate with a freep. So you won't get any hostility unless you intentionally seek it out (i.e. going to a thread designed for communication, logging to the other side, etc).

Originally Posted by Dorothir

I think a lot of people are missing that a creep can't communicate with a freep. So you won't get any hostility unless you intentionally seek it out (i.e. going to a thread designed for communication, logging to the other side, etc).

No, it will all just translate over to the forums, like it has in any other PvP game where the two sides can't communicate.

Originally Posted by Livejazz

No, it will all just translate over to the forums, like it has in any other PvP game where the two sides can't communicate.

Yeah, in a thread specifically made for it that you don't need to access. Why would you read through a thread you know would upset you?

An international response to this idea...no, non, nyet, nein, nae, na, ne, nah, naheen, a-a, bu shi, cha, iie, mai, mhai! (my humblest apologies if any of these are used out of context)

If ya can't understand the meaning of any of these, let me know and I'll google more.

And before you jump to conclusions...I'm a vet of the vanilla wow ladder and pvp'd on many other games and have been known on occasion to take up the Sauron/Witch-King's banner on the moors (little hobbit feet are yummy).

I also agree PvMP needs some serious love but converting LOTRO into a PvP game is not the answer.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

I think a lot of people are missing that a creep can't communicate with a freep. So you won't get any hostility unless you intentionally seek it out (i.e. going to a thread designed for communication, logging to the other side, etc).

See post #83 (just above yours) in this very thread.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Yeah, in a thread specifically made for it that you don't need to access. Why would you read through a thread you know would upset you?

Because that has never been where it's restricted, that's why.

Surprise surprise, some PvP stans proving the point of the PvE'ers by turning hostile.

PvP itself is not necessarily a bad thing, no. But the culture and attitudes that tend to spring up around it are not things I want to involve myself in, at all. So I don't PvP. There may be circumstances in which I'd be willing to accept playing a game that had open-world PvP (opt-in would be the first and most necessary) but this is LOTRO. Good luck working out the logistics of that while still allowing Turbine to retain their rights to use the IP!

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

Ya it seems PvE have a closed minded view of pvmp that is it will go bad. They do not listen to other people idea on how to get this to work. With out PvE getting hurt by a Creep. It just sad because there alot of good way to get pvmp with out touching PvE.

The reaction may just possibly be a triumph of experience over hope. Various solutions have been suggested...pretty much all of them have drawbacks, frequently serious drawbacks. There is one solution that appears to work consistently and well...use a completely separate zone that can't be entered accidentally for PvMP.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

Ya it seems PvE have a closed minded view of pvmp that is it will go bad. They do not listen to other people idea on how to get this to work.

We've BEEN listening to other people's ideas for this. I have not yet seen a single one that is workable.

Originally Posted by Livejazz

We've BEEN listening to other people's ideas for this. I have not yet seen a single one that is workable.

I seen a few that would work. But it 85% pve boohooing and not bothering to read any of idea on this tread. Here is what happening. Pve read the frist page and read the last page. Then post /not sign. With out reading ideas pvp posted.

Then the last few pages it been about ww2 jet bombs and the word Noob and how it could be insulting.

I don't understand why this matters. Why come out of the moors? To try to taunt PvEers into PvP? To disrupt PvEers? To get the PvE crowd to log out and not come back until y'all are safely back in the moors? I'm not seeing the point; I can guarantee you if Turbine ever implements PvP server-wide I'll cancel my sub immediately and go looking for another game for Eukwen and I to play. And I won't be alone.

*edit* And for those who say PvEers should try PvP? I took a dwarf Hunter to 65 on Sargeras in WoW. It was NOT fun, grinding exp then having a group of 3-4 Horde show up. My fun day was over at that point. I refuse to support anything even remotely similar to that in LotRO. PvP is fine for those who want to participate, as long as it stays in the 'moors.

Take out the one-shotters and let em loose, I say, they'll just get rofl-stomped by the fraid hiding in GV anyway.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

Then the last few pages it been about ww2 jet bombs and the word Noob and how it could be insulting.

It's called "thread drift." It's been happening since the earliest BBS days. People talk about A and then they talk about B which is sort of related, and then they talk about C which is related to B, and so on till they're talking about aleph-null. It's not even the nature of the Internet; it's human nature.

Originally Posted by djheydt

It's called "thread drift." It's been happening since the earliest BBS days. People talk about A and then they talk about B which is sort of related, and then they talk about C which is related to B, and so on till they're talking about aleph-null. It's not even the nature of the Internet; it's human nature.

Which is exactly why we need to let the creeps out of their play pen and run across the landscape.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Which is exactly why we need to let the creeps out of their play pen and run across the landscape.

So they can gank the thread drifters?

Sorry. It would just mean the whole game was empty, instead of just the Moors.

Originally Posted by djheydt

So they can gank the thread drifters?

Sorry. It would just mean the whole game was empty, instead of just the Moors.

Quoted for sheer honesty.

No need for this, at least no real good mechanic has been posted in this thread, someone has to lay off the pipe

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

I seen a few that would work. But it 85% pve boohooing and not bothering to read any of idea on this tread. Here is what happening. Pve read the frist page and read the last page. Then post /not sign. With out reading ideas pvp posted.

Isn't the critical point that *Turbine* reads the threads? (And they do.) Of course, Turbine also has the ability to mine the server logs to determine where players *actually* play and in what numbers, rather that the players wild guesses and assertions, no matter how confidently made...and the act on that data.

Then the last few pages it been about ww2 jet bombs...

A total of 6 posts (including yours and this one one) in 8 pages. (And, by the way, no "jet bombs" were mentioned, unless that's your preferred way to describe the world's first cruise missile. The other WW2 devices mentioned were *1* fighter--not a jet--and a ballistic rocket.)

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

Isn't the critical point that *Turbine* reads the threads? (And they do.) Of course, Turbine also has the ability to mine the server logs to determine where players *actually* play and in what numbers, rather that the players wild guesses and assertions, no matter how confidently made...and the act on that data.

I imagine most of the people on this forum would be amazed to find out just how much more about the game the developers know then they do. It always cracks me up when people on the forum tell the developers who plays what, what gets used and what doesn't get used. I'm sure the developers have all kinds of spreadsheets and data logs of exactly who does what in the game, how much certain items are used, which maps are the busiest, which quests are most popular, and on and on.

Originally Posted by Widoch

I imagine most of the people on this forum would be amazed to find out just how much more about the game the developers know then they do. It always cracks me up when people on the forum tell the developers who plays what, what gets used and what doesn't get used. I'm sure the developers have all kinds of spreadsheets and data logs of exactly who does what in the game, how much certain items are used, which maps are the busiest, which quests are most popular, and on and on.

So many people fail to realize this. This is what the Devs do 8 hours a day. Do they make stupid decisions sometimes? Of course they do. Everyone does at work in every profession.

But to think that we will never see the creeps run amok in Middle Earth just because some people protest against it in the forums is erroneous at best. I have no doubt that the Devs know exactly how much activity really goes in the Moors, no matter what players may think or feel.

Originally Posted by whheydt

Isn't the critical point that *Turbine* reads the threads? (And they do.) Of course, Turbine also has the ability to mine the server logs to determine where players *actually* play and in what numbers, rather that the players wild guesses and assertions, no matter how confidently made...and the act on that data.

Yep. One of the Turbine developers I've known for a long time once told me that they do a *lot* of data mining to help validate their decisions. They learned years and years ago that forums are a tough place to get an objective sense of what's happening in the game. One example from the AC days was all of the forum speculation on how ranged weapon damage was calculated... there were endless rumors, and people would get all wound up over stuff that was patently false (but widely believed).

The forums matter of course, or they wouldn't exist. But if they're getting a sense that X is true from the forums, they'll go look at in-game data to see if it backs that up or not. That's why back in the first year the game was out, Steefel said that they'd been seeing that players wanted a lot more compelling solo content in the game both in what players were saying on the forums and in what they were doing inside the game. The decision to focus more on solo content back then was driven by both.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

I seen a few that would work. But it 85% pve boohooing and not bothering to read any of idea on this tread. Here is what happening. Pve read the frist page and read the last page. Then post /not sign. With out reading ideas pvp posted.

I'd guess that most people here only bothered to read the OP, which suggests that creeps should be able to "overtake a town". Regardless of anyone's choice of playstyle, I do not think that closing off multiple towns for an entire day is reasonable.

With that being said, I agree with your earlier post suggesting a login screen option to access a separate layer/copy of an existing zone. With the option just as difficult to access as creeps are today, the amount of "I accidentally went to a PvMP zone" complaints should be no higher than they are today, with the sole exception being people who purposely push it just so they can complain and get the option removed (just like complaints from "casual players" got conjunctions nerfed).

It actually amuses me how a**l people get over suggestions like this.



Gotta love blatant prejudice.

Originally Posted by Untg99

It actually amuses me how a**l people get over suggestions like this.



Gotta love blatant prejudice.

Then allow me to be the first: I am blatantly prejudiced against letting creeps out of the moors. If you think calling people prejudiced is a tactic that will change minds (as in *Ohhh, I don't want people to think I'm prejudiced....."), I really doubt you'll have much luck. But go ahead and try.

Originally Posted by Dworin

Then allow me to be the first: I am blatantly prejudiced against letting creeps out of the moors. If you think calling people prejudiced is a tactic that will change minds (as in *Ohhh, I don't want people to think I'm prejudiced....."), I really doubt you'll have much luck. But go ahead and try.

Nope, I don't.

I just pointed out that I find it very amusing nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Untg99

Nope, I don't.

I just pointed out that I find it very amusing nonetheless.

What I find far more amusing is that you, on the other hand, are prejudiced in favor of PvMP.

With far less justification.

Bad idea... Turbine would lose subscribers and revenue from the players who are adamantly against open world pvp

Hey, i think its a long shot, but it is a shot none the less. Ill be proud of you if it goes though, so more power to you and all your supporters (including meeee!).

Originally Posted by Sardonyx

What I find far more amusing is that you, on the other hand, are prejudiced in favor of PvMP.

With far less justification.

That is quite an interesting apparition. I would ask for you to elaborate on that.

Originally Posted by Sardonyx

What I find far more amusing is that you, on the other hand, are prejudiced in favor of PvMP.

With far less justification.

1. How exactly do you figure that?

2. Why exactly do PvE'ers hate the PvP crowd? Most (if not all) PvP'ers ask for changes to the way classes work in the moors, not in the game as a whole. For instance, when people ask for nerfs to the minstrel class, they mean "Tone down their BS aspects using the darn moors debuff, just like you did the hunters' DF."

3. If you're gonna fall back to the "PvP was an afterthought" defense, lemme say this: afterthought or not, the fact is that Turbine is providing such a feature and (in the case of freeps or non-freever creeps) charging money for it. I don't see how allocating some more resources to fixing PvP faction imbalance can affect their profits... As it is currently, they stand to lose a substantial portion of their player base to other games. Why provide a service but then not do it properly?

P.S.: At a stretch, seeing as PvE-only players are so fixated with the fact that only a portion of LoTRO customers PvP, I'd say their anti-PvP rage can be considered anti-minority sentiments.

Originally Posted by Moejo

Take out the one-shotters and let em loose, I say, they'll just get rofl-stomped by the fraid hiding in GV anyway.

This. This. A hundred times this. XD

OP, I'd suggest altering your opening post to include some of the changes made through out the thread. It seems lots of people are missing that the idea isn't just a simple 'Let creeps out', it's now become something along the lines of 'give creeps a layer in each zone for PvP only that changes every week'.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

OP, I'd suggest altering your opening post to include some of the changes made through out the thread. It seems lots of people are missing that the idea isn't just a simple 'Let creeps out', it's now become something along the lines of 'give creeps a layer in each zone for PvP only that changes every week'.

A rep for you Dorothir. You are reading ideas from other people post. That deals with only pvp. Which would not affect a pve player.

Pve will not be harm.

and

Pvp get there wish to battle in middle earth.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

A rep for you Dorothir. You are reading ideas from other people post. That deals with only pvp. Which would not affect a pve player.

If and only if that Pv(M)P layer comes with separate chat channels, which is not the case with layering now.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Porgrammer

Originally Posted by whheydt

If and only if that Pv(M)P layer comes with separate chat channels, which is not the case with layering now.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Porgrammer

What he said ^^


I tend not to read any of the PVP stuff on the forums because it's mostly not interesting to me, and about 50% of it is preening. I'd hate to have that filling my chat channels in the game. At least I can turn off /GLFF when it happens, but I'd hate to have to turn off LFF, Regional, Say, etc etc...

Originally Posted by Widoch

What he said ^^


I tend not to read any of the PVP stuff on the forums because it's mostly not interesting to me, and about 50% of it is preening. I'd hate to have that filling my chat channels in the game. At least I can turn off /GLFF when it happens, but I'd hate to have to turn off LFF, Regional, Say, etc etc...

Most PvP chat goes on in OOC. All they'd really need to do is seperate the Ettenmoors OOC to a different channel called PvP that would work anywhere, providing you have it selected.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

Since Bullroarer is already a throwaway server as far as character data is concerned, would anyone have a problem with the occasional (one weekend per year) open-world PvMP event between tests/previews? With the character copy, you would still have all your stats and gear, and with a separate client there would be no possibility whatsoever of people accidentally stumbling in.

I agree - They already do it on WoW & those folks have no issues. And that game is bigger than this one, course, its crowds are all snot nosed bullying kids, but that's besides the point.

Etten is old, it needs an overhaul, we all know this. Maybe it'll happen someday.

I just though it'd be fun to let the 'dogs' out!

Originally Posted by Cassie4486

I just though it'd be fun to let the 'dogs' out!

That's a common reason. But ask yourself this about it...Fun for WHO?

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer