From all of the threads that I have been reading recently, I have come to notice that it is just one class complaining how they want to be another class. Hunters want to have the survivability of blackarrows; wargs want to have the same skills as burgs, reavers want to be champs... Then why don't you just play that class? There is nothing holding you back from playing the class that you want to be.
It is obvious that there are imbalances in this game that cannot be fixed for many reasons, including non-mirrored classes for each side as well as freeps must be set to be able to down raid content. There is no denying that. However, coming onto these forums and ranting about how one side is this and the other side is that is ridiculous. I see burgs claiming that they want to be wargs, wargs claiming they want to be burgs, yet nobody has the brains to think: Wait, I can go level that toon!
Come on people, if the only reason you won't play a side (mainly freepside) is due to your lack of interest in putting the work into gearing up a toon, then you don't deserve to be on an equal playing field...
And before you call me out on "freep goggles", know that my highest ranked toon is a r10 spider, which I have played for the last 2 and a half years.
The base problem with that statement is that this is the forums. 99% of the people here are the QQers and they always want to have more stuff they deem "better". The majority of LOTRO's population (at least creep side), in my experience, wants more difference between the creep and freep classes which are similar. So difference skills for wargs than burgs have etc. etc. The only base thing that creeps want that freeps have is a similarity in healing and dps since there is such a gross imbalance, but if everyone played a freep, then there would be no creeps to kill :P.
From all of the threads that I have been reading recently, I have come to notice that it is just one class complaining how they want to be another class. Hunters want to have the survivability of blackarrows; wargs want to have the same skills as burgs, reavers want to be champs... Then why don't you just play that class? There is nothing holding you back from playing the class that you want to be.
It is obvious that there are imbalances in this game that cannot be fixed for many reasons, including non-mirrored classes for each side as well as freeps must be set to be able to down raid content. There is no denying that. However, coming onto these forums and ranting about how one side is this and the other side is that is ridiculous. I see burgs claiming that they want to be wargs, wargs claiming they want to be burgs, yet nobody has the brains to think: Wait, I can go level that toon!
Come on people, if the only reason you won't play a side (mainly freepside) is due to your lack of interest in putting the work into gearing up a toon, then you don't deserve to be on an equal playing field...
And before you call me out on "freep goggles", know that my highest ranked toon is a r10 spider, which I have played for the last 2 and a half years.
Just my two cents.
If you have a r10 spider, then you'll know how underpowered creepside is. That's why people QQ.
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Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
If you have a r10 spider, then you'll know how underpowered creepside is. That's why people QQ.
Originally Posted by Stevo6
Tried too. They start to run away once they realise when they lose.
Apart from captains. If they don't have the + make haste LI then they won't get away.
Facepalm.... underpowered or you make people run? You cannot be the victim and the tough guy who makes freepsies run away. My suggestion is to stick with victim, as it suits you better.
Facepalm.... underpowered or you make people run? You cannot be the victim and the tough guy who makes freepsies run away. My suggestion is to stick with victim, as it suits you better.
As a hunter, you should know the pain a spider has felt...being squishy once caught, and whatnot.
Facepalm.... underpowered or you make people run? You cannot be the victim and the tough guy who makes freepsies run away. My suggestion is to stick with victim, as it suits you better.
They're overpowered, it doesn't mean that they will win.
There are some freeps that use their "overpoweredness"(or cooldowns, if you prefer) to get away. Put it like this. A champ sprinting away who's popping all bubbles and heals won't die. A weaver or Warleader (and warg? Not sure) could keep up with the champ with out of combat speed but that will only be when the sprint expires. The champ will have reached safety by then, unless they were at grams.
Then you have freeps who use their cooldowns to win the fight. Guardians and Champs come to mind here. Don't try with the argument "creeps have cooldowns too" A BA's moving target is quite a skill yes, but not effective against RK's/LM's or minstrels.
You could also argue that as a weaver I have catch prey so I should insta-win against melee. True, until I get stunned.
However not all freeps take advantage of how powerful they can be. I have encountered many freeps who don't use their most powerfull skills, then it comes down to the skill of the player.
Anyway, my point is, that creeps are tired of freeps being OP. I cannot see any area where creeps have a advantage (apart from morale, but look how much that helps us out).
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Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
If you have a r10 spider, then you'll know how underpowered creepside is. That's why people QQ.
I'm pretty sure you probably shouldn't project your badness elsewhere, some people are actually successful at the spider class.
"Because I'm sane, and I know I am because I'm constantly thinking 'don't be crazy' to myself. Crazy people don't do that because crazy people don't worry about becoming crazy"
Morale is not an advantage stevo, if anything it's a disadvantage.
You know how much #### people throw around just because of it, justifying the ridiculous imbalance?
I was being sarcastic - it doesn't help us out at all. And it's true what you said, some freeps go "but you have 3k more morale than me! I get more damage/skills/mitigation in return!
Originally Posted by Sulfur
I'm pretty sure you probably shouldn't project your badness elsewhere, some people are actually successful at the spider class.
1.) So you are saying you can beat anyone (including skilled minstrels)
2.) Are you also saying that there is nothing underpowered with creepside?
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Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
I was being sarcastic - it doesn't help us out at all. And it's true what you said, some freeps go "but you have 3k more morale than me! I get more damage/skills/mitigation in return!
1.) So you are saying you can beat anyone (including skilled minstrels)
2.) Are you also saying that there is nothing underpowered with creepside?
1) nope, RK's too (although I figure this is more my current lack of audacity and strategy, and unwillingness to grind audacity out). Can't beat everyone, I can accept that.
2) nope, let's not wildly extrapolate here. Mostly because it looks bad.
"Because I'm sane, and I know I am because I'm constantly thinking 'don't be crazy' to myself. Crazy people don't do that because crazy people don't worry about becoming crazy"
If you have a r10 spider, then you'll know how underpowered creepside is. That's why people QQ.
There ARE issues with creepside. Let's be honest.
BUT the key issue is creepside is closer than it's been in the past. Things ARE moving in the right direction and honestly most creep classes at a reasonble rank...lets just say R9 (easily achievable in the time it'd take a freep to get L75 and a solid LI set and their gear and their virtues, and and and)...anyhow a R9 in MOST classes will match up pretty well against a similarly skilled freepside opponent, with or without using cooldowns.
I can SMASH a high ranked bug if they are significantly less experienced/skilled than I am. But I can also be kited and dotted into oblivion by a good player. No chance of winning, little chance of escape (if I tried...)
They're distinctly different playstyles and have different ways of victory. This is what is great about PvMP, the classes are NOT mirrors. Heck, the core mechanics aren't even mirrors. There are differences, and that's what makes PvMP dynamic and fun.
/shrug. I know there's still a lot of creeps who just think they're walking renown buckets. But the ones who decide to learn their class, play like a creep not a freep, and stick with it are plenty powerful and a near even match in most circumstances. Most. Not all. Near even, not OP, but not massively UP either.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
Tried too. They start to run away once they realise when they lose.
Apart from captains. If they don't have the + make haste LI then they won't get away.
haha funny, never seen a spider burrow when losing before, never seen a warg hips or sprint when losing before, never seen a reaver dying rage when losing before.... o wait yes I have...
I'm gonna have to disagree that more morale isn't helpful lol... perhaps it was a subtle attempt to troll people like me who try to take most people seriously. Either way saying 3k morale isn't alot is just foolish. Heck a 3k morale increase for me would be the same as giving me 40% more mits. For a creep with 10k morale, its a 30% mit increase if you just think of it in terms of a purely mits to morale or morale to mits argument. I'm not saying more morale makes creeps balanced or anything even close to that. But, saying high morale isn't important is just looking for a reason to complain and trollolol the forums.
I think Luc makes a good point though. Attempts to compare creeps to freeps in any sort of 1:1 comparison or mirror classes just makes for a messy argument where no one gets anywhere. People who flip back and forth between freeps and creeps definitely know that playstyles have to change depending on which side you're on. Everything seems easier on the other side until you actually honestly try it out.
haha funny, never seen a spider burrow when losing before, never seen a warg hips or sprint when losing before, never seen a reaver dying rage when losing before.... o wait yes I have...
Spider burrow? Yes of course that helps us escape... half the time it doesn't even work properly.
Wargs hips and sprint a lot. I'll give you that.
Reaver/defiler dying rage? They die anyway. The creep doesn't get any benefit here.
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Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
Spider burrow? Yes of course that helps us escape... half the time it doesn't even work properly.
Wargs hips and sprint a lot. I'll give you that.
Reaver/defiler dying rage? They die anyway. The creep doesn't get any benefit here.
It's essentially the same as hips or df, point denial being a detriment to pvp in general. While not as successful, saying DR running isn't essentially the same as hips/df only with a slightly higher fail rate is arguing semantics.
"Because I'm sane, and I know I am because I'm constantly thinking 'don't be crazy' to myself. Crazy people don't do that because crazy people don't worry about becoming crazy"
They're overpowered, it doesn't mean that they will win.
There are some freeps that use their "overpoweredness"(or cooldowns, if you prefer) to get away. Put it like this. A champ sprinting away who's popping all bubbles and heals won't die. A weaver or Warleader (and warg? Not sure) could keep up with the champ with out of combat speed but that will only be when the sprint expires. The champ will have reached safety by then, unless they were at grams.
Then you have freeps who use their cooldowns to win the fight. Guardians and Champs come to mind here. Don't try with the argument "creeps have cooldowns too" A BA's moving target is quite a skill yes, but not effective against RK's/LM's or minstrels.
You could also argue that as a weaver I have catch prey so I should insta-win against melee. True, until I get stunned.
However not all freeps take advantage of how powerful they can be. I have encountered many freeps who don't use their most powerfull skills, then it comes down to the skill of the player.
Anyway, my point is, that creeps are tired of freeps being OP. I cannot see any area where creeps have a advantage (apart from morale, but look how much that helps us out).
Omg cooldowns like Moving Target, disappear, sprint, charge, resiliance, trapdoor sanctuary, web the earth.. Those kind of CD's?
Omg cooldowns like Moving Target, disappear, sprint, charge, resiliance, trapdoor sanctuary, web the earth.. Those kind of CD's?
Just go to GW2 already, you're boring.
That last line actually made me laugh.
Ok, moving target is a cooldown. Not effective against targets though.
Dissapear and sprint, again, are cooldowns. Of course. Why do you think so many people are burgs and wargs?
Charge? As far as I know it doesn't activate in combat. So, if, the freep catches the reaver before, no CD for him. Also, I don't see many reavers use charge to get away from a solo fight, only from the raid crossing stab.
Not sure what resilliance is, can't comment on that.
Trapdoor Sanctuary? LOL! Roll a weaver and see how effective it is. If the freeps have blown all their cooldowns and the weaver used there's correctly (web the earth and 10s stun and slow pot) then the weaver could get away. But,
a) It get's interupted a lot
b) Usually there's a thing where you click the skill once, nothing happens, you click it again, then you burrow and imerge immediatly after. I think feign death for freepside has this also.
c) It leaves the weaver in a trap. If I stayed in the full duration (I havn't bought the heal trait) then I'm simply letting the freeps cooldowns recharge. Not good.
Web the earth... sort of. Yeah, it's a really good skill. But /champions/guardians can sprint through it. Can't count captain's, as they still have a -25% run speed. Burgs can hips through it. Also brands make the skill useless.
FYI, GW2 isn't here yet. Try that line again in 3-4 months.
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From one side of your mouth you complain about cool downs, from the other side you tell me how CD's can either be countered or are just a matter of life in the moors.
I get that you complain you're underpowered, after all it provides a built in excuse when you lose and a built in epeen when you win.
From one side of your mouth you complain about cool downs, from the other side you tell me how CD's can either be countered or are just a matter of life in the moors.
I get that you complain you're underpowered, after all it provides a built in excuse when you lose and a built in epeen when you win.
But all you do is complain.
I complain about Freep cooldowns. How can I counter them? Creep cooldowns can be countered (except moving target, maybe).
Yeah I'm complaining. Look on the forums. Lots of complainers. Your point?
Healerstevo - Rank 6 Warleader
Blackbowstevo - Rank 6 Blackarrow
Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
Its simply not possible for a seasoned freep to have failed to notice how much easier it is for them since RoI. For freeps to have received so much health, dps, mitigation increase since RoI not to mention additional skills and boost to current skills, and for Creeps to have received nothing any freep claiming balance is simply crazy.
And now we have update 7 which has brought more unbalance to the moors, I guess the same freeps will still be claiming balance and yelling about the spiders catch prey and wargs sprint godmode skills.
Pre RoI was a nice time for PvMP but since a major update to stat caps and various classes (freep side only) its so one sided its not even funny anymore.
Some freeps are tired of hearing about GW2, these are the freeps who are happy with the current state of the moors, the ones who enjoy facerolling, the very freeps who will cry bloody murder if creeps are boosted to create balance.
if the only reason you won't play a side (mainly freepside) is due to your lack of interest in putting the work into gearing up a toon, then you don't deserve to be on an equal playing field...
It comes down to if you want your pvp bogged down by your pve. Above all else freepside needs to be able to create pvp only classes that advance through ranking.
Could you imagine instead of the wow clone this game became, it was turned into a secret world clone?!? I mean how realistic would that be no lvls no classes only possibilities where each race holds both advantages and disadvantages over the others beyond skills on a 1hr cd.
(~;\/\/II has no "work to play" all that new armor they will provide every xpac wont have better stats on them and you know why? There is no spoon! Besides everyone knows forum pvp is where it's really at.
Ok, moving target is a cooldown. Not effective against targets though.
Dissapear and sprint, again, are cooldowns. Of course. Why do you think so many people are burgs and wargs?
Charge? As far as I know it doesn't activate in combat. So, if, the freep catches the reaver before, no CD for him. Also, I don't see many reavers use charge to get away from a solo fight, only from the raid crossing stab.
Not sure what resilliance is, can't comment on that.
Trapdoor Sanctuary? LOL! Roll a weaver and see how effective it is. If the freeps have blown all their cooldowns and the weaver used there's correctly (web the earth and 10s stun and slow pot) then the weaver could get away. But,
a) It get's interupted a lot
b) Usually there's a thing where you click the skill once, nothing happens, you click it again, then you burrow and imerge immediatly after. I think feign death for freepside has this also.
c) It leaves the weaver in a trap. If I stayed in the full duration (I havn't bought the heal trait) then I'm simply letting the freeps cooldowns recharge. Not good.
Web the earth... sort of. Yeah, it's a really good skill. But /champions/guardians can sprint through it. Can't count captain's, as they still have a -25% run speed. Burgs can hips through it. Also brands make the skill useless.
FYI, GW2 isn't here yet. Try that line again in 3-4 months.
I'm sorry stevo, but I believe that your complaints about the spider class are pretty much invalid.
You claim that Catch prey is "alright" until you get stunned and the buff drops.
You also claim that trapdoor sanctuary is a "useless skill"
I will honestly say that I have not played much on spider over the past month, but through the time I played I can confirm that catch prey is more than "alright". With the delving pot, I can reach 30% evade chance, as well as 40% mits with the Born of Shadow buff. On top of that, I also have ~25% block and parry chance, which is equal to that of a capped freep who spent all of his cards in b/p/e. 40% mits is also much greater than that of someone who put their gear set into b/p/e.
Trapdoor sanctuary, on another topic, is not the greatest skill in this game, but why should you complain about it? It is 1000x better than freep flops in any way imaginable. The duration is twice as long, the cooldown stands at five minutes, which is equal to that of minstrel's flop, but mini flop only lasts for 30 seconds. Also, as of update 5, spiders were gifted with this wonderful new trait(one that I do not use personally, I am against p2w) that allows you to regenerate 5% of your health (roughly 500-600 health) every 2 seconds for the duration of your burrow, which is enough to regenerate to full 3 times.
You wish to make claims against spider burrow, but do not take into consideration that all other skills similar to it suffer from the same problems.
With just one audacity on my spider, I have little to no trouble killing most classes, with the sole exception of the minstrel, which is in-arguably overpowered. I can think of no reason why you would make statements that the class is ridiculously under powered other than your lack of ability to play it.
Have fun in Guild Wars 2 I guess... I for one will be trying it out, but have noticed it's fair share of problems...
Keep in mind that no game is perfect, nor ever will be perfect.
Quick question regarding Catch Prey, when you say a stun removes the buff do you have to time the stun as to when the buff is about to refresh (or teir up)?
I've stunned spiders many times on my captain and never had it drop off.
Votan | Xeyila | Grisburnakh
Retired - Thanks for the fun and the fights
I'm sorry stevo, but I believe that your complaints about the spider class are pretty much invalid.
You claim that Catch prey is "alright" until you get stunned and the buff drops.
You also claim that trapdoor sanctuary is a "useless skill"
I will honestly say that I have not played much on spider over the past month, but through the time I played I can confirm that catch prey is more than "alright". With the delving pot, I can reach 30% evade chance, as well as 40% mits with the Born of Shadow buff. On top of that, I also have ~25% block and parry chance, which is equal to that of a capped freep who spent all of his cards in b/p/e. 40% mits is also much greater than that of someone who put their gear set into b/p/e.
Trapdoor sanctuary, on another topic, is not the greatest skill in this game, but why should you complain about it? It is 1000x better than freep flops in any way imaginable. The duration is twice as long, the cooldown stands at five minutes, which is equal to that of minstrel's flop, but mini flop only lasts for 30 seconds. Also, as of update 5, spiders were gifted with this wonderful new trait(one that I do not use personally, I am against p2w) that allows you to regenerate 5% of your health (roughly 500-600 health) every 2 seconds for the duration of your burrow, which is enough to regenerate to full 3 times.
You wish to make claims against spider burrow, but do not take into consideration that all other skills similar to it suffer from the same problems.
With just one audacity on my spider, I have little to no trouble killing most classes, with the sole exception of the minstrel, which is in-arguably overpowered. I can think of no reason why you would make statements that the class is ridiculously under powered other than your lack of ability to play it.
Have fun in Guild Wars 2 I guess... I for one will be trying it out, but have noticed it's fair share of problems...
Keep in mind that no game is perfect, nor ever will be perfect.
I didn't say that Catch Prey was an alright skill. It's one of the weaver's best abilities, until I get stunned.
I didn't say Trapdoor was useless either. Yeah, if you decided to P2W then it would become extremely useful. But there are problems with it, like I stated in my post.
You listed the benefits which weavers get. Which is nice, but you forget that the freeps still have better mitigation than you. Catch prey is "useless" against tactical classes. I'm getting crits with my virulent posion dot at just over 100, when the tooltip damage is about 250-?? (havn't played in a while). That's the effect of their mits. Meanwhile, Burgs/hunters/Champs/RK's are still getting crazy crits on you.
I win my fair share of fights. One of my points was if they decided to use their cooldowns they could easily get away. If you found a champion at bear valley, who decided to run towards gv, do you think you could be able to kill him while he's sprinting, bubbling and blowing his heals?
However it depends on the skill of the player in a fight. If they're really bad, then they can blow their cooldowns and still lose. Average... it depends on the classes. Evenly matched players I doubt you could beat if they decide to blow their cooldowns.
Originally Posted by Apocatequil
Quick question regarding Catch Prey, when you say a stun removes the buff do you have to time the stun as to when the buff is about to refresh (or teir up)?
I've stunned spiders many times on my captain and never had it drop off.
I think it depends on the length of the stun. However sometimes I've had the buff drop immediatly. Not sure which stuns drop it.
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I'm gonna have to disagree that more morale isn't helpful lol... perhaps it was a subtle attempt to troll people like me who try to take most people seriously. Either way saying 3k morale isn't alot is just foolish. Heck a 3k morale increase for me would be the same as giving me 40% more mits. For a creep with 10k morale, its a 30% mit increase if you just think of it in terms of a purely mits to morale or morale to mits argument. I'm not saying more morale makes creeps balanced or anything even close to that. But, saying high morale isn't important is just looking for a reason to complain and trollolol the forums.
I think Luc makes a good point though. Attempts to compare creeps to freeps in any sort of 1:1 comparison or mirror classes just makes for a messy argument where no one gets anywhere. People who flip back and forth between freeps and creeps definitely know that playstyles have to change depending on which side you're on. Everything seems easier on the other side until you actually honestly try it out.
The morale is helpful, but it is not to be overstated. It's not as helpful as one may consider. It is certainly not to be placed next to hard mitigation. Hard mitigation makes a much bigger difference than morale ever will.
With freep mitigation capabilities, the 'creeps have more mits' part of the argument is no longer a valid statement.
Their health is useful, but it is no way a particular advantage for them considering the DPS disparity. It's importance is high only out of necessity of it's presence due to the fact if they did not have it, PvP would only be balanced when creeps fight level 65's.
I play both freep and creep, and over the years have tried to keep my biases even in terms of renown/infamy points when I have the time to play. And it is disgustingly obvious which side is easier these last updates.
Of course, you play a hunter, which is seemingly the hardest freep class to deal with in PvMP than any other class? At least, that was the implication I received from some of your previous posts. So I presume you will probably have different facts just based on that.
Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro
Have fun in Guild Wars 2 I guess... I for one will be trying it out, but have noticed it's fair share of problems...
Keep in mind that no game is perfect, nor ever will be perfect.
Yes, well it is quite easy to point out it's 'fair share of problems' when the game is months from it's completion.
It's not about having a perfect game, it's about having a dated game with an appropriate company backing it.
GW2 has both, while lotro seemingly has neither up to the same standard.
You listed the benefits which weavers get. Which is nice, but you forget that the freeps still have better mitigation than you. Catch prey is "useless" against tactical classes. I'm getting crits with my virulent posion dot at just over 100, when the tooltip damage is about 250-?? (havn't played in a while). That's the effect of their mits. Meanwhile, Burgs/hunters/Champs/RK's are still getting crazy crits on you.
What mits? Spiders, which are a "light armor class" have 40% mits when their Born of Shadow buff is ticking. On the other spectrum, of the OP freepside, my hunter, which is a medium armor class, has about 23-27% mits, unless I drop morale and agility to pick up *some* tactical mastery.
If you are comparing yourself to a guard/champ/captain you are at a loss here... Comparing apples to oranges is not going to get you anywhere.
P.S.- If your dot is ticking at about 100, they are probably wearing audacity gear. Keep in mind that you have this as well.
What mits? Spiders, which are a "light armor class" have 40% mits when their Born of Shadow buff is ticking. On the other spectrum, of the OP freepside, my hunter, which is a medium armor class, has about 23-27% mits, unless I drop morale and agility to pick up *some* tactical mastery.
If you are comparing yourself to a guard/champ/captain you are at a loss here... Comparing apples to oranges is not going to get you anywhere.
P.S.- If your dot is ticking at about 100, they are probably wearing audacity gear. Keep in mind that you have this as well.
Hunters and burgs are one exception to the whole thing.
Light armoured classes are walking around with max tact mit out in the moors with viable builds.
Runekeepers, LM's and some minstrels I've seen run about with it.
Wardens, guards champs and cappies are running around with 40+% and 60+% respectively.
However, hunters and burgs do have the highest DPS freepside has to offer.
Did I mention DPS disparity between factions?
Anyway, my point is, that creeps are tired of freeps being OP. I cannot see any area where creeps have a advantage (apart from morale, but look how much that helps us out).
P O P U L A T I O N, the most OP thing the creeps have right now, when used correctly they can roflstomp freeps 24/7.
Open world PvP, use the tools that you have available to win.
Last edited by doug01; May 17 2012 at 09:51 AM.
"...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace
The morale is helpful, but it is not to be overstated. It's not as helpful as one may consider. It is certainly not to be placed next to hard mitigation. Hard mitigation makes a much bigger difference than morale ever will.
Unless you put numbers to either Morale or Mitigation, you can't compare them. There's no way you can argue hard mitigation makes more of a difference than morale ever will unless you give them values.
Tell me which you'd rather have:
+1% "hard" mitigation or +10000 morale?
+25% "hard" mitigation or +100 morale?
The magnitude of each defines how useful or how much of a difference it makes. I do understand where you're coming from though. I agree, I'd bet the majority of players over estimate the difference morale makes and underestimate the role that mitigations play.
However, hunters and burgs do have the highest DPS freepside has to offer.
not sure if trolling. not sure if talking about PvP or PvE.
As a hunter if I could stand still and never get hit in PvP, I might agree with you. That's why PvE hunter is pretty derping easy and doesn't struggle to contribute too much. There's no class' DPS that suffers more from an enemy fighting back than a hunter. The immobile nature of the class based off DPS orignating from induction skills significantly hurt the hunter. Without much survivability, standing still doesn't work well right now lol. How often in PvP do hunters get to stand still and DPS without getting attacked? Yea, thought so.
Its simply not possible for a seasoned freep to have failed to notice how much easier it is for them since RoI. For freeps to have received so much health, dps, mitigation increase since RoI not to mention additional skills and boost to current skills, and for Creeps to have received nothing any freep claiming balance is simply crazy.
Unless you put numbers to either Morale or Mitigation, you can't compare them. There's no way you can argue hard mitigation makes more of a difference than morale ever will unless you give them values.
Tell me which you'd rather have:
+1% "hard" mitigation or +10000 morale?
+25% "hard" mitigation or +100 morale?
The magnitude of each defines how useful or how much of a difference it makes. I do understand where you're coming from though. I agree, I'd bet the majority of players over estimate the difference morale makes and underestimate the role that mitigations play.
It just seemed as if you didn't really understand specifics yourself with the first post. To me at least.
I was just confused as to where you were coming from with those numbers.
Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr
not sure if trolling. not sure if talking about PvP or PvE.
As a hunter if I could stand still and never get hit in PvP, I might agree with you. That's why PvE hunter is pretty derping easy and doesn't struggle to contribute too much. There's no class' DPS that suffers more from an enemy fighting back than a hunter. The immobile nature of the class based off DPS orignating from induction skills significantly hurt the hunter. Without much survivability, standing still doesn't work well right now lol. How often in PvP do hunters get to stand still and DPS without getting attacked? Yea, thought so.
That may be true. However, there are a few hunters out there who, amongst a solo situation/solozerg will rightfully position and be careful not to expose themselves until they are ready to make their first move.
Red line hunters, it's more about getting the attacks off before you get noticed. By that time, you should have gotten a kill or two.
Blue line is more on the move. It allows for more of an up close and personal type of thing, resulting in lower output, but it's still pretty good.
When I make these comparisons, I'm not taking in the average hunter, I'm talking about those who will maximise on the advantage of their class. Biggest of which is their DPS. Some people do it better than the majority, and this would be the player I am pointing out.
It's less of an issue surviving attacks as a hunter or burg. It's more a matter of killing things before it gets to that stage.
The burg being melee has escape skills which the hunter doesn't have. The hunter generally has a much larger gap they can pro-actively pull out of a dire situation. Not as reliable, but it still relies upon the player to execute for efficiency.
There's no comparison to make. Creeps =/= freeps. They're created differently. Creeps don't have armor or LI's or traitlines or even mail because they can't, not because the devs are lazy. You're basically running an npc.
Creepside is supposed to be simple, non complex and non grindy. Yes, turbine could do better on balance, especially healing and some further effectiveness for reavers especially. But on the whole, creepside is always going to be the underpowered side, they always have been and the reason is numbers. Because creepside is easier, if you make it too attractive, the freeps will never have a chance. Creepside is just too quick and too easy.
So if you can't accept that, then yes, go to another game. I'm not trying to flame you, but maybe this game is too hard for you.
Or to quote the immortal Doc Holiday from Tombstone, "Maybe poker's just not your game Ike."
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Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro
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